[ANN][C2.1] Coin2 | Pow/PoS | ChainOfConflict[FPS] The Future of Gaming is Now

[gts476]

would be better if it could be addressed on a programming level. could c3 do what the dev team need it to do if its a scaled down nxt clone?

[1715177501]

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[1715177501]

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[1715177501]

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[1715177501]

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[nrigo]

tacotime can you please link some info about peercoin pos weaknesses?

ok
https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Problems (See 5. Create an incentive-compatible proof-of-stake currency) and also here: http://blog.ethereum.org/2014/01/15/slasher-a-punitive-proof-of-stake-algorithm/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131940.0 (addressed by the creation of kernel.h and kernel.cpp which compute the stake modifier, which has its own problems)

Thanks a lot, this is very interesting. To problem #1: What exactly is meant with consensus failure and how does it affect network security? So if I have a faked time stamp that is t seconds in the future, how much less coins do I need to perform a 51% attack?

This is the means to generating hashes for PoS for PPC (paraphrased a little):

Code:

int64 nTimeWeight = min((int64)nTimeTx - txPrev.nTime, (int64)STAKE_MAX_AGE) - nStakeMinAge);
CBigNum bnCoinDayWeight = CBigNum(nValueIn) * nTimeWeight / COIN / (24 * 60 * 60);
if (!GetKernelStakeModifier(blockFrom.GetHash(), nStakeModifier, nStakeModifierHeight, nStakeModifierTime, fPrintProofOfStake))
    return false;
ss << nStakeModifier;
ss << nTimeBlockFrom << nTxPrevOffset << txPrev.nTime << prevout.n << nTimeTx;
hashProofOfStake = Hash(ss.begin(), ss.end());
if (CBigNum(hashProofOfStake) > bnCoinDayWeight * bnTargetPerCoinDay){
    return hashProofOfStake; } // Golden "nonce" found, we have a block!
else {return false;}

You can game this in a bunch of ways.  If you're building your own chain of blocks, you can manipulate the timestamp; BlackCoin uses 10 minute intervals, so there's another 600 chances right there (+ 10 min).  If you want to build lots of blocks, you need coinstake distributed in lots of places (nTimeBlockFrom << nTxPrevOffset << txPrev.nTime << prevout.n).

Now you can bruteforce a chain of length whatever privately so long as you have a bunch of coinstake at different addresses, and then doublespend using that.  Unless everyone is trying to do this, you don't need 51% stake to do this -- just the hoarding of a bunch of stake and some bruteforcing at an exacting time and you can doublespend.  This is why PoS in PPC and friends defaults to PoW; you're just manipulating a bunch of different factors in search of golden "nonces" (manipulations of non-nonce parameters) in a chain of blocks instead of simply increasing the nonce.

Using PoW blocks to make stake modifiers can also help prevent you from being able to game this a bit from the "if (!GetKernelStakeModifier(blockFrom.GetHash(), nStakeModifier, nStakeModifierHeight, nStakeModifierTime, fPrintProofOfStake)) return false;" portion, but I don't think it completely eliminates the risk.

Sunny King at some point mentioned changing confirmation rules from number of blocks that have passed to the amount of coinage that has been included in blocks since a transaction has taken place ("trust score").  But this still doesn't solve the "nothing at stake" forking problem, and you can still likely doublespend in that case with <51% stake.

From this board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0

Thank you for your responses.

We should request some help to Tacotime and to Rat4 who know a lot about security.

[UdjinM6]

Ok, guys, it might be too late but, well, I did my best
It's really early dirty beta and has some bugs in memory leaking on server side but it works somehow so pls try not to kill it

http://nc2chain.info/top100

Just in case it could break at any time I saved a copy of the result here http://pastebin.com/bZuyC3dS

[declensions]

Ok, guys, it might be too late but, well, I did my best
It's really early dirty beta and has some bugs in memory leaking on server side but it works somehow so pls try not to kill it

http://nc2chain.info/top100

saved a copy of the result here http://pastebin.com/bZuyC3dS

are there some top wallets that are not listed? im not sure how these explorers work how does it find the top wallets? cus i dont see my wallet on there xD

[UdjinM6]

Ok, guys, it might be too late but, well, I did my best
It's really early dirty beta and has some bugs in memory leaking on server side but it works somehow so pls try not to kill it

http://nc2chain.info/top100

saved a copy of the result here http://pastebin.com/bZuyC3dS

are there some top wallets that are not listed? im not sure how these explorers work how does it find the top wallets? cus i dont see my wallet on there xD

what's your address?

[declensions]

im not even sure my coins have always been on mintpal i've never transferred to wallet

thanks for the richlist btw

[wheelz1200]

Udjinm6...thanks.

The one good thing about visibility into this is to be able to guage the distribution of coins. Its uber important for just a couple people to not own a majority of the coins....

[UdjinM6]

quick reboot, should be up in few minutes

EIDT: it's up

[victorteoh]

UPDATE:

A FEW WORDS FROM ME (THE HEAD DEV):

I sincerely apologize that the coin has been subject to an attack twice.  This is emerging technology and I am relatively busy in the real world.  However, I assure you, this coin is my passion and my real joy.  

The problem was that the exchanges had a majority of the coin in their wallets and exchanges do not stake aka "mine".  So someone did not need 51% of the 60 mil total coins.  They only needed 51% of "staking coins".  Being that most coins were on the exchanges, the attacker was able to figure out a double spend method without 51% of total coins.  

Mintpal does not have the double spend coins.  I dont know what the attacker did with them.  SO HERE IS THE PLAN.

1. We are going to make a new coin with 60 million total supply and a lower interest rate (5%)
2. We are setting up a db to allow people to send in their old coins.  IF YOU HAVE COINS ON AN EXCHANGE, LEAVE THEM THERE.
3. Any wallets created after 5/16/14<--THE DAY OF ATTACK, are invalid and WILL NOT RECEIVE NEW COINS.  This will eliminate the attackers stash of coins    and we will be left with a surplus.  Mintpal lost 22 mil coins from the double spend.  We will reimburse Mintpal, so that they can give users back their coins.  
4. The board members have decided to keep all of our coins in 2 or 3 wallets and have them staking 24/7.  This will make sure that there is always a sufficient amount of coins "minting" and will nearly eliminate 51% attack potential.
5. This will take time and we ask you to bear with us.  Again, I apologize for this.  Thank you all.  

Please do not send emails to Mintpal, Polo,or Bter they are aware of what is going on and your coins are safe.

I'm leaving my coin2 in the Mintpal, so it'll automatically convert to the new coin when you have finish it right? I'm very busy in these few weeks so I wouldnt have much time to check the post here non stop. I'm afraid that i might miss the conversion n left of with no coins. I held ever since the giveaway and bought some. I wouldn't want to miss the train to pluto when it comes

[Cryptojunkey]

Ive got some coin2 in an offline wallet, what will i need to do to exchange it to the new?

[GiorgosK]

UPDATE:

A FEW WORDS FROM ME (THE HEAD DEV):

I sincerely apologize that the coin has been subject to an attack twice.  This is emerging technology and I am relatively busy in the real world.  However, I assure you, this coin is my passion and my real joy.  

The problem was that the exchanges had a majority of the coin in their wallets and exchanges do not stake aka "mine".  So someone did not need 51% of the 60 mil total coins.  They only needed 51% of "staking coins".  Being that most coins were on the exchanges, the attacker was able to figure out a double spend method without 51% of total coins.  

Mintpal does not have the double spend coins.  I dont know what the attacker did with them.  SO HERE IS THE PLAN.

1. We are going to make a new coin with 60 million total supply and a lower interest rate (5%)
2. We are setting up a db to allow people to send in their old coins.  IF YOU HAVE COINS ON AN EXCHANGE, LEAVE THEM THERE.
3. Any wallets created after 5/16/14<--THE DAY OF ATTACK, are invalid and WILL NOT RECEIVE NEW COINS.  This will eliminate the attackers stash of coins    and we will be left with a surplus.  Mintpal lost 22 mil coins from the double spend.  We will reimburse Mintpal, so that they can give users back their coins.  
4. The board members have decided to keep all of our coins in 2 or 3 wallets and have them staking 24/7.  This will make sure that there is always a sufficient amount of coins "minting" and will nearly eliminate 51% attack potential.
5. This will take time and we ask you to bear with us.  Again, I apologize for this.  Thank you all.  

Please do not send emails to Mintpal, Polo,or Bter they are aware of what is going on and your coins are safe.

I'm leaving my coin2 in the Mintpal, so it'll automatically convert to the new coin when you have finish it right? I'm very busy in these few weeks so I wouldnt have much time to check the post here non stop. I'm afraid that i might miss the conversion n left of with no coins. I held ever since the giveaway and bought some. I wouldn't want to miss the train to pluto when it comes

from the updated OP it seems that Mintpal and other exchanges will auto convert the coins to the new coins

@DEV lets make sure that the new name is C2
anybody else agree ?

[fritzi]

UPDATE:

A FEW WORDS FROM ME (THE HEAD DEV):

I sincerely apologize that the coin has been subject to an attack twice.  This is emerging technology and I am relatively busy in the real world.  However, I assure you, this coin is my passion and my real joy.  

The problem was that the exchanges had a majority of the coin in their wallets and exchanges do not stake aka "mine".  So someone did not need 51% of the 60 mil total coins.  They only needed 51% of "staking coins".  Being that most coins were on the exchanges, the attacker was able to figure out a double spend method without 51% of total coins.  

Mintpal does not have the double spend coins.  I dont know what the attacker did with them.  SO HERE IS THE PLAN.

1. We are going to make a new coin with 60 million total supply and a lower interest rate (5%)
2. We are setting up a db to allow people to send in their old coins.  IF YOU HAVE COINS ON AN EXCHANGE, LEAVE THEM THERE.
3. Any wallets created after 5/16/14<--THE DAY OF ATTACK, are invalid and WILL NOT RECEIVE NEW COINS.  This will eliminate the attackers stash of coins    and we will be left with a surplus.  Mintpal lost 22 mil coins from the double spend.  We will reimburse Mintpal, so that they can give users back their coins.  
4. The board members have decided to keep all of our coins in 2 or 3 wallets and have them staking 24/7.  This will make sure that there is always a sufficient amount of coins "minting" and will nearly eliminate 51% attack potential.
5. This will take time and we ask you to bear with us.  Again, I apologize for this.  Thank you all.  

Please do not send emails to Mintpal, Polo,or Bter they are aware of what is going on and your coins are safe.

I'm leaving my coin2 in the Mintpal, so it'll automatically convert to the new coin when you have finish it right? I'm very busy in these few weeks so I wouldnt have much time to check the post here non stop. I'm afraid that i might miss the conversion n left of with no coins. I held ever since the giveaway and bought some. I wouldn't want to miss the train to pluto when it comes

from the updated OP it seems that Mintpal and other exchanges will auto convert the coins to the new coins

@DEV lets make sure that the new name is C2
anybody else agree ?

Totally agree should revert to original ticker symbol.

[zyronx]

I agree keep C2, I have too many images in the social media with that name Coin2  
I love the name and the C2 logo. its become part of me now.

[brightlight]

Yeah, no answer from Bter. This still makes me nervous, because my coins after dilution are stuck in one address, where other deposits are processed.

[brightlight]

"Bter Support Today at 09:18
Dear Sir,
I am afraid the coin is not on Bter as you sent them to Bter after deposit disabled. I am afraid you can not withdraw them now as they haven't reach Bter.

May I suggest that you contact us later when the deposit is enabled?

Thanks"


I don't even know if my coins will be available when the coin change is initiated... Will deposit be enabled ever?! F***  


Edit:

And another message:

Bter Support Today at 09:29
Dear Sir,
13481.307895 C2    is the most latest C2 deposit. If it is the coin you want , you may withdraw it freely. As to the other transaction, I am afraid you can not withdraw it as it is not available on Bter now.

Thanks


But I have deposited another amount!

[freeworm]

"Bter Support Today at 09:18
Dear Sir,
I am afraid the coin is not on Bter as you sent them to Bter after deposit disabled. I am afraid you can not withdraw them now as they haven't reach Bter.

May I suggest that you contact us later when the deposit is enabled?

Thanks"


I don't even know if my coins will be available when the coin change is initiated... Will deposit be enabled ever?! F***  


Edit:

And another message:

Bter Support Today at 09:29
Dear Sir,
13481.307895 C2    is the most latest C2 deposit. If it is the coin you want , you may withdraw it freely. As to the other transaction, I am afraid you can not withdraw it as it is not available on Bter now.

Thanks


But I have deposited another amount!

Dont worry. As long as the C2 dev accept the coin you deposited to Bter, we are going to replace it with the new coins for you no matter if it's credited to your account already or not.

Lin@Bter

[brightlight]

"Bter Support Today at 09:18
Dear Sir,
I am afraid the coin is not on Bter as you sent them to Bter after deposit disabled. I am afraid you can not withdraw them now as they haven't reach Bter.

May I suggest that you contact us later when the deposit is enabled?

Thanks"


I don't even know if my coins will be available when the coin change is initiated... Will deposit be enabled ever?! F***  


Edit:

And another message:

Bter Support Today at 09:29
Dear Sir,
13481.307895 C2    is the most latest C2 deposit. If it is the coin you want , you may withdraw it freely. As to the other transaction, I am afraid you can not withdraw it as it is not available on Bter now.

Thanks


But I have deposited another amount!

Dont worry. As long as the C2 dev accept the coin you deposited to Bter, we are going to replace it with the new coins for you no matter if it's credited to your account already or not.

Lin@Bter

Thank you! Also received your PM...

[foob6]

the second ,i dont want to see the third

[wood7]

i am wating the new wallet,and hope is the last time

[Glen Hoddle]

Ok, guys, it might be too late but, well, I did my best
It's really early dirty beta and has some bugs in memory leaking on server side but it works somehow so pls try not to kill it

http://nc2chain.info/top100

Just in case it could break at any time I saved a copy of the result here http://pastebin.com/bZuyC3dS

Very nice work.

Also, thanks to all the people contributing who know their stuff. It makes for interesting (if perplexing) reading and I'm sure it's helping.