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Author Topic: Have we left "Bitcoin Discussion" board for spammers, forever??  (Read 2716 times)
The Pharmacist
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September 04, 2018, 03:26:08 PM
 #21

The problem is not paid signatures in general.
<snip>
Signatures up to junior member of even to member have to be removed completely, and there have been other many good proposals that they will never be implemented or will take ages until they do.
Agreed and agreed.  There are a lot of members here who advertise in their signatures and who aren't shitposters.  Chipmixer participants are a good example of that, and I really wish all campaigns had DarkStar_'s standards.  He only accepts Sr. Members and above, and in general the output of its members is above average. 

Unfortunately you see the exact opposite when you look at bounty participants.  They're mostly Jr. Members and they write one-line garbage.

All of this has been said many times before, and I'm not sure if it's even worth discussing anymore.  I'm sure Theymos is well aware of the problem and of the solution.  He's just choosing not to act.

I also agree with OP that it's a damn shame that what should be the best section of bitcointalk is actually the worst.  Anyone coming here genuinely wanting to discuss bitcoin issues will be sadly disappointed when they post in a thread there and their post never gets read or responded to.  It's a discussion forum after all, but it's morphed into a posting forum.

Most of those suggestions are honestly very biased and would only work in the favor of the high ranked accounts.
But it's not the high-ranked accounts that are doing the spamming.  It's very clearly people who come here just to spam and who create new accounts at will and who have no barriers preventing them from achieving Jr. Member rank.

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r1s2g3
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September 04, 2018, 03:29:05 PM
 #22

Actually , Bitcoin discussion board is just become some kind news release or speculate the price of the bitcoin. It is very hard to find any topic there that demands real discussion. I think the very first step should be trash all the discussion that are speculating price/ or asking will bitcoin rise or fall.
When we already have Wall observer thread, we do not need these topic there.
Threads that are posting link will require some effort whether they are just repeating whatever in site or really put some value by adding some content of its own. Any topic just repeating the things also need to be deleted.
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September 04, 2018, 04:20:13 PM
 #23

I don't completely agree with that since I'm a Member, and I believe I deserve to wear a signature because I have earned my position. I was a Newbie when Merit system was introduced, and I reached this rank because, I think, I have been contributing something to every discussion that I have been a part of. Removing signatures for Jr. members can do the work because they cannot reach Member rank without earning Merits, and if someone can manage to earn at least 10 Merits, I believe they deserve to have the right to wear a signature.

Yes! I agree! I also joined the forum as a newbie -- looking for a place to learn more about cryptos and get some ideas from like minded users. I knew nothing about bounties or signature campaigns when I signed up and I didn't post much at all for several months after I signed up, because I was reading and learning - not talking about sh!t I had no clue about! As I read posts, I saw the user rankings and merit scores and so forth and did some research to see what the were and how they were achieved.  That was when I first found out that people could actually earn cryptos by participating in the boards.

I won't lie. I immediately wondered how much I could earn just by signing up with one of these "campaigns", but I also knew that I had very little technical knowledge or real life experience to share. So I knew that signature campaigns weren't for me (at that moment). But I wasn't prepared to swear off of them forever.

Fast forward several months and I've bumped up one rank to Jr. Member and hope to someday soon go up another notch to Member. I don't post just to rank up, but I do post if I think I have something constructive and contributory to say.  Like Alone055, I believe that I have earned the right to my signature, bland and unoriginal as it is, by following the rules that have been laid out for me by the current merit system.

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September 04, 2018, 04:28:49 PM
 #24

Not all newbies are spammers and not all spammers are newbies.
Exactly, there are spammers who are at higher ranks, and I think they should get the benefit of the doubt as they are fairly new.
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September 04, 2018, 05:14:51 PM
 #25


Punishments for campaigns that are consistently paying spammers to churn out junk in there.


I like this idea and has already stated it couple times in my older posts, but do you have any idea on what kind of punishment will be made? And who will be the judge?

For the OP. All of your frustation is already felt by other members too, and some of member already make a move to make it better by persuading Theymos in a private and closed communication. There have been a talking about other suggestion too, but the key is on Theymos and he stated that acting as a CEO-like for this forum is hard and finding people/person to do the job to aid him is as hard as doing the job alone too, so we would not see the changes if that key problem is not solved yet. Either Theymos is not busy anymore with other works and can focus on this forum or he find a right person to help him.

If you want to ask people to create something there and make a change, i think it has a very low chance to be a successful attempt. It is like the good proportion to spammer are 1 : 1000. You can not win the fight.

I have read about "self moderated thread" in one of replies here, and i would like to say it is useless too. Five minutes into digging a snack and take a break from your PC for a while will leave you with couple of spams, and you can not check your thread everyday, so once again, spammer wins.


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Alone055
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September 04, 2018, 07:15:56 PM
 #26

Though I agree with your bolded words but your first sentence makes me less respect you. Why don't you just ask against him: "Hey, what about remove all the bounties for full member and lower ranks?". LOL

Though its a shame, but the amount of spam generated on the forum comes mostly from our ranks (Newbie, Jr. member, Member). Hence, I cannot suggest disabling signatures for any higher rank but nor I would lay my weapon down if someone tries to attack me only because I belong to a cast that is nasty as shit.

A better solution would be to crack down on the ICOs campaigns that are paying them to post rubbish in there.
...
....
Punishments for campaigns that are consistently paying spammers to churn out junk in there.

I too have said the same things in past, but just a bit differently. I said, that campaigns should be forced to either accept users above Jr. member rank, or only select the users that are at least mildly constructive. A campaign, if found accepting users that are extreme shitposters, should be punished by either locking down their thread or something like that.

Not only for Bitcoin Discussion but if we base it on statistics, Bitcoin Discussion is just below to Altcoin Discussion. Speculation and Economics section too is sort to be the spot where they hone their shitty posts to increase their post counts.

I agree that no board is less in terms of spam posts these days, but "Bitcoin Discussion" is the only board that comes to your mind when you hear the term "Bitcointalk", and it deserves to be clean, and if it cannot be cleaned, it should at least have some quality topics, in self-moderated mode where constructive posters can come and have a good discussion for the day.

These days, there are so many threads complaining about the level of spam in most threads.
And frankly, it's becoming a repetitive topic, similar to the spam being complained about.

How is this similar to the spam?  Huh
Its not the same topic that is repeated, like how spammers do. Every person, who condemns the act of spamming tries to bring up something that needs to be done to tackle it, and as long as the spammers exist, these anti-spam posts would keep coming.

I have read about "self moderated thread" in one of replies here, and i would like to say it is useless too. Five minutes into digging a snack and take a break from your PC for a while will leave you with couple of spams, and you can not check your thread everyday, so once again, spammer wins.

I don't think it is useless as long as the creator of that topic takes this responsibility to keep the thread clean from spam and spammers, and that is what I want to see. Besides, I think every single person, who comes to the forum everyday with positive energy to have some good discussions and read some good posts would surely open up a thread in that section if the creator of that thread is someone who is known in the forum to be among the good ones here.
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September 04, 2018, 07:30:04 PM
 #27

Interesting topic and discussion, thanks to the author ...
Yes, I completely agree with you that this "Bitcoin Discussion" has become a spam theme.
But I want to ask the question to all the Full, Seniors, Legends - so why do you give a bad example yourself, and unsubscribe in these spam themes created mostly by beginners and younger members of the forum?
And I'll tell you what I think - you write everywhere about banning signatures for beginning forum participants, and you can not stop writing posts in spam because of your posts for signing.
PS, Look at yourself first, before criticizing others ...

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September 04, 2018, 07:30:09 PM
 #28

...
That's what I suggested. Self-moderated threads can have a very big effect on the quality of that board. People starting useful discussions making the threads self-moderated to clean the incoming spam can give us some hope.
...
Self moderated topic won't be a solution in Bitcoin Discussion, as long as our beloved spammers will continue to work spam as busy as a bee...
If you start a self-moderated topic with a decent subject to discuss
- you will have less posts than a normal topic, because spammers won't work spam in vain, so
- your topic will not receive enough 'bumps' daily to be able to stay on the first page, so
- nobody will find it after a few hours <end of the story>

I've used to report in Bitcoin Discussion (managed to have over 500 good reports in just a few days), but it's like you want to fight the roaring fire in the woods with a water pistol...
You can put countless people's energy, time and effort to fight agains the spam in that (and every other) board, but what about cutting spam at the roots? It would require much less time, energy, and effort to just restrict them somehow.
If that could happen, those hard working members who just report spam day in and day out, would have time again to create constructive posts, instead of just pushing the report button...

 

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September 04, 2018, 08:19:47 PM
 #29

I started an initiative some time ago to make only self-moderated threads there to fight the sig. spam. I even stated a thread and got some success in way of discussion.
[Discussion]How to decentralize the price of the bitcoin? Self-moderated.
I think if we follow this way of posting we may have some part of the section back to the real discussions.

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September 04, 2018, 11:15:28 PM
 #30

But it's not the high-ranked accounts that are doing the spamming.  It's very clearly people who come here just to spam and who create new accounts at will and who have no barriers preventing them from achieving Jr. Member rank.
Yes, that's true but we can't say for sure that every junior member account comes here for just spamming. It would be unfair for the members who come here to contribute constructively. Although the fraction of such posters will be quite low, it would be biased if we let them suffer because of the other shit-posters.

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Alone055
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September 05, 2018, 09:35:20 AM
 #31

I started an initiative some time ago to make only self-moderated threads there to fight the sig. spam. I even stated a thread and got some success in way of discussion.
[Discussion]How to decentralize the price of the bitcoin? Self-moderated.
I think if we follow this way of posting we may have some part of the section back to the real discussions.

I must have missed your thread. That initiative is exactly what I suggested here as well. I, too, believe that we can still recover some boards if all of us start taking part in them and don't just sit and watch. I agree with everyone saying that the spammers are too many in quantity and they won't let us succeed in this, but that should not be a reason for us to not do anything for it. You can't win a fight if you don't even fight, no matter how hard it is.

we can't say for sure that every junior member account comes here for just spamming. It would be unfair for the members who come here to contribute constructively. Although the fraction of such posters will be quite low, it would be biased if we let them suffer because of the other shit-posters.

I believe a member, who comes here not for spamming and knows what constructiveness is, can easily earn 10 Merits and then become able to wear signatures and not suffer at all. There aren't really a lot of them to be honest, maybe 5% out of 100%, and we should not leave the remaining 95% untouched only because it might affect the 5% a little. That would be unfair to the community itself.
Removing signatures for lower ranks would only reduce spam, but theymos already said that he wouldn't do it.
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September 05, 2018, 10:37:41 AM
Merited by hilariousandco (8), suchmoon (4), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #32

Yeah, bitcoin discussion is unreadable. Whenever I'm bored or want to know the news, I just go browse around Press and Serious discussion.

I took a screenshot of some of the newest/hottest bitcoin discussion threads on the first page and it's quite alarming to see the results. The results are quite alarming.

Most of the threads are either spam threads or just threads that have been made hundreds of times. I doubt anyone actually reads threads anymore, and instead just reads the title and makes a quick post for a couple stakes.


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September 05, 2018, 10:53:52 AM
 #33

I doubt anyone actually reads threads anymore, and instead just reads the title and makes a quick post for a couple stakes.
Yeph, that's actually how things work in Bitcoin Discussion now. Some are not even reading the topic's title and just posting nonsense or off-topic reply and some are just copying and pasting other members reply. Bitcoin Discussion already became a spam fest for spammers and we should not disregard this problem or else this "spam virus" will spread through other sections and boards here in the forum. I wish Meta section won't get infected (but actually spammers are now starting to make nonsense threads here in Meta).
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September 05, 2018, 11:09:42 AM
Merited by Alone055 (1)
 #34

I doubt anyone actually reads threads anymore, and instead just reads the title and makes a quick post for a couple stakes.

You just got me thinking, so I performed a quick and dirty snapshot audit and analysis:

I just copy-and-pasted the first page of a selection of boards, dumped them in to excel, summed all the replies and all the views, then divided total 1st page views by 1st page replies to get a ratio of views per reply. In other words, for each reply posted, how many views are there, per board.

The results are exactly as expected:

Development & Technical Discussion: 19.57
Technical Support: 21.11
Project Development: 56.53
Economics: 32.56
Meta: 18.69

Bitcoin Discussion: 3.81.
This is about 10% of the average ratio of the less spammy boards. I think this is proof that people aren't viewing threads on Bitcoin Discussion out of interest in the topic or replies, they are doing it to pad their post count.

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September 05, 2018, 11:17:18 AM
 #35

I doubt anyone actually reads threads anymore, and instead just reads the title and makes a quick post for a couple stakes.

Some read the title, and some only read the last few replies of that thread and starting posting according to them, without even reading the OP.
A spammer is just like a child who only does what others are doing, with no further thinking of whether it is right or wrong, or whether it should be done or not.

we should not disregard this problem or else this "spam virus" will spread through other sections and boards here in the forum.

It has. "Bitcoin Discussion" is not the only board that is flooded with spam every day, but it is one of the main boards of the forum and that is what takes my heart. Otherwise, there is more than enough spam in every single section of the forum that needs not be there.

I wish Meta section won't get infected (but actually spammers are now starting to make nonsense threads here in Meta).

They require a place to spill their shit, and they don't really find it here in Meta and that's the actual reason why we don't see a lot of spammers in our threads in this board. If someone starts a useless thread here, it gets reported if it does not belong here, but in Bitcoin Discussion section a spammer starts a topic which actually is a discussion but isn't constructive or is repeated several times already, so it would remain there and becomes the place for other spammers to fulfill their needs.

Bitcoin Discussion: 3.81.

That's insane!
I wonder what would be the results of the same analysis in Altcoin Discussion board knowing it is the most crowded board by replies/posts right now.
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September 05, 2018, 11:35:08 AM
 #36

What if someone posts repeated answers to repeated questions?
What if someone posts something he does not know the truth, and only based on Opinion?
Are they Spammers  Roll Eyes?
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September 05, 2018, 12:13:33 PM
 #37

That's insane!
I wonder what would be the results of the same analysis in Altcoin Discussion board knowing it is the most crowded board by replies/posts right now.

Altcoin Discussion works out similarly to Bitcoin Discussion, at a ratio of 4.36.

Now, if you sort by new threads in Bitcoin Discussion (and therefore include no spam-megathreads in the analysis) the ratio increases from 3.81 to 6.51. If you do the opposite, and only include threads with >200 posts, the ratio drops to 3.40. Some of the individual spam threads are coming in with ratios below 3.

I think this correlates with what we all suspect - no one is going in to a spam thread with 10+ pages of replies, and reading what is written. Half the time they don't even read the OP. They just churn out a line or two that has almost certainly been said before, that no one else will ever read.

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September 05, 2018, 01:10:15 PM
 #38

Setting your new threads in self-moderated mode help a lot. You can be surprised. It should be a standard for users interested to participate in a normal discussion, but sadly the thread is drowned by others still. If we have 10 people making daily 10 new threads, we can make a revolution Cheesy

Personally, I regret to never see some members posting there. :/

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September 05, 2018, 02:47:22 PM
 #39

the bitcoin main board is rather like a personal one on one with satoshi compared to the alt main board.

think yourselves fortunate if you have no need to venture there to find a sensible/informative/mildly interesting thread to read

decentralised moderation via a new version of noob jail using junior boards and merits is the only way forward

want to spend your time feeling negative about reporting bots, spammers, shills, and just noobs that have not read the rules or want to spend some time now and then rewarding new genuine members that want to learn themselves and willing to help other noobs learn about crypto.

seems an obvious way forward and nobody has really posed a reason not to go forward with it other than people can go to a lot of time trouble if they want to get around this .... only to be nuked if they are noticed acting in an undesirable way later on.

let's get on with it before we have nobody left posting anywhere except in meta complaining about how shit the main boards are now.

I have even gone back to using reddit lately that's how bad it really is here now on the main alt boards and even the btc main board is just the same crap regurgitated round and round

Of course some of the ann threads here are still the best for specific projects if you don't want to go slack or more annoying mediums





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September 05, 2018, 03:25:08 PM
 #40



The problem is in the high number of replies.

Who is going to read more than 1k comments and the one writing the last comment what is he going to add to the thread!
Besides, sometimes you find threads on the first page and after wasting your time reading it you discover that it was written years ago and an idiot bump it by adding an unuseful reply.

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