[RETURN] Announcing CoinReturn Financial IPO!

[coinreturn]

Updates:

PLEASE check the latest posts in this thread or our listing on cryptostocks.com to ensure you are reading the latest updates!

~(5/04)~ In the next 10 days we will be announcing how many shares we intend to release/create/sell for the rest of 2014, how they will be sold, what price, timeframes et al. Until then new shares will not be sold, we will be implementing this no later than 5/14 and will give advance notice detailing the process before the sale begins/resumes we're still giving advance notice, but we are implementing it pretty much immediately following the announcement/notice. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to message us or post on bitcointalk and we'll try to get back to you as quickly as we can.
~(4/17)~ We've updated the Chinese language section below to include recent updates. Also, we've posted an update on our bitcointalk thread about how we plan to offer shares in the future: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504128.msg6273602#msg6273602
~(4/08)~
- Just noticed our update from a few days ago didn't save. We have already entered our second month and we're happy to report that we've paid a 70% return in our first month! Going to be hard to match or top that for April but we're going to try.
- We also wanted to remind users that the 95% profit to shareholders promotion ended on 4/6 and are moving to the 65% profit to shareholders model outlined from the start. We may offer bonus dividends in the future again, but will never give shareholders less than 65%.
- Last, we wanted to fill users in as to how we will be selling shares. For the near-term, our plan is to sell 200 shares every other day (right after dividends are paid typically) at .006 btc. So in a given week 600 or 800 shares will be offered. Again this is only for the near term, we may taper this amount down and suspend sales at times but we will give advance notice for any changes.

~(3/27)~  
- Please see our latest notice under "announcements" or on our bitcointalk thread if you are a shareholder and make sure your contact info is working. We hope to never have to implement this plan but it's better to be prepared.

~(3/25)~ Dividends have just been paid out for 3/23 and 3/25 as two separate payments. Sale of shares will resume 3/26, however the IPO will be inactive (meaning others can still sell shares) for the time being, but we may re-enable it after giving an advance notice on our CS project page (and likely here on btctalk).
~(3/20)~ We've had people asking about us offering shares while the IPO is suspended; wanting to buy shares but at a reasonable price. To remedy this, and since we didn't give adequate advance notice about the IPO pause, we'll offer 500 shares at .0055btc, thus those wishing to sell right away can still undercut our price and those that want to buy in can get a fair price. When we do re-enable the IPO, it will likely be at this price. We're sorry for any confusion or disruption this has caused. Please let us know if you have any concerns by messaging us on bitcointalk or at jeff@coinreturn.me
~(3/19)~ Dividend payment shortly. Looks like Litecoin's party is over for now, treated us good though.
~(3/19)~ We're having some problems with our email client, if you need to contact us please either message us on bitcointalk or email jeff@coinreturn.me (which is actually through a different client). We'd also like to announce we are suspending the IPO for now to give users a chance to sell shares if they choose; the IPO will be inactive for at least one week.
~(3/13)~ 4th dividend has been paid. The dividend is just over .0004btc per share, which is just over an 8% return. So far we have managed a 20% return this week for our investors! We hope you are as excited about our first week performance as we are.
~(3/11)~ 3rd Dividend payout soon. We are also seeking to expand to the Chinese bitcoin community and are looking for a translator. If interested checkout our thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=511587
~(3/7)~ Shares have been issued and the IPO is active! Thanks to everyone who has bought shares and those who haven't, but still checked us out. The first dividend will be issued in a few hours so get your shares soon.
~(3/6)~ After internal discussion we've decided dividends will be paid every other day for the first month and to give shareholders 95% of the profits for the first month!
~(3/6)~ IPO launches in a few hours! get ready to get your shares!
~(3/4)~ Barring any major issues, the IPO will open and issue shares on March 7th.
This whitepaper and Coinreturn.me are still going to have more info added so check back for updates.
~(3/1)~ We welcome any questions, comments, and suggestions. Don't hesitate to contact Tom with your concerns: Tom@coinreturn.me


-------------orginal post:---------------

Hello all,

  My name is Tom and I'd like to announce a new listing on Cryptostocks.com that will be issuing shares in a few hours. The project is known as CoinReturn Financial (coinreturn.me) Me and two other friends have basically been operating our own version of the project for almost two years and a couple months ago we decided to expand to the general public. We know that there is alot of mistrust of projects on Cryptostocks (and it is certainly warranted) but we hope we can address any concerns here (and, we hope, soon on our website which will have a public comments area) and we hope that our dividends will speak for us once we get off the ground. Our hope and a guiding principle is that shareholders shouldn't have to recieve 900 dividend payments to earn back their principle investment. With our strategies we hope to not only get investors their orginal investment back relatively fast, but to offer investors a steady stream of interest/ROI from proven trading techniques. We aren't offering 1000% returns overnight, but rather a realistic return that anyone familiar with EMAs and MACD indicator based trading can easily imagine what the returns would look like.

If your interested then checkout: https://cryptostocks.com/securities/101






About us:
CoinReturn Financial can trace its roots back to the end of 2012 when three friends with experience trading in bitcoin decided to pool their resources to create a shared portfolio. Utilizing each our strengths as a programmer, an economics grad student, and a small-business owner we we’re able to develop and test investment and trading strategies to begin to gain a consistent return on our portfolio, regardless of how the Bitcoin market is performing. There have been some hiccups, pain, and nervous moments along the way but by September of 2013 we came to a strategy that has proven itself a winner.


Goal:
CoinReturn's portfolio is and will be a mixed investment fund designed to generate reliable, predictable returns. This portfolio will likely not double in size overnight or generate 5000% weekly ROI, the investment strategies within the portfolio are designed to avoid high-risk and instead generate a steady stream return. We consider turning 1 btc into 1.25 btc in a a week to be a success (of course, actual returns could be, and have been, more or less than this rate). Bottom line: if you are seeking short-term, high-risk, high-reward then this fund is not for you. If you are seeking medium or long term consistent earnings then keep reading.

Portfolio information:
The portfolio is designed to be 75% in traditional cryptocurrency markets, this means 75% will comprise of BTC/LTC or fiat at any given time. The remaining 25% will be used for more standard investments such as near-the-money stock options, traditional stock securities, and short to medium term secured business loans.

Strategy:
The trading strategies we use aren't any secret, but rather methods commonly employed by traders within any exchange (crypto, forex, stock exchanges). If you're a regular bitcoin trader you are probabley familiar with these indicators. We will apply this to both manual and automated trading platforms ("tradebots"). Both use an EMA as the basis for the buy/sell orders with guidance from an MACD and StochRSI; we typically use a 10/24 EMA at 30-minutes or 1 hour polling, this helps to maintain a macro view of where the market is going and consistently be on the right side of any daily volatility. This strategy does NOT use any sort of "pump-and-dumps" (i.e. manipulation) or rely on "hot tips" (i.e. rumors). And while we do capitalize on volatility, we trade with the aim of likely holding our position for at least an hour and sometimes a few days (depending on conditions).

Shares:
We are going to have an initial IPO of 10,000 shares at .005 btc per share. After this we will allow trading of shares and then remove share offerings. We may have a second and third round of issues from whatever the remaining shares are left from the orginal 10,000--- we aren't sure at this time but we will update once we reach a decision.

Dividends:
We intend to pay out dividends every thursday and monday for the first month, every other day for the first month. Then we will put to a shareholder vote the payout schedule from there.
Also for the first month, 95% of the profits will go to the shareholders in the form of dividends. After the third dividend in April is distrbuted we will then give 65% of the profits will go to share holders and the remaining 35% will go to the administrators. Any tx fees or taxes on earnings will be payed from our 35% share of the profits.
We cannot predict what returns will be, some weeks will be good and we'll be able to dole out a nice dividend but, inevitably, there will be times where we are flat or have taken a loss. In the event of a loss or zero gain at the time dividends are due we will pay out a "sorry we suck" dividend of .01 btc to be split among shareholders. We have set aside 1 btc of our own personal funds for this and the purpose is: 1, basically to let shareholders know we didn't forget to payout dividends. 2, to give shareholders something, since we feel we owe it to you. 3, We want to have a consistant payout system/record; avoid "rolling over" and shifting dividend payout dates.




FAQs:
 ~ Why not use "pump and dumps" on alt currencies (FRK, UTC, UNO, QRK, etc)? This strategy relies on manipulation and opens up the potential for massive losses, whether your 'leading' one or 'joining in' on one.

 ~ What exchanges will be used? BTC-E and BitStamp. These offer fairly low trading fee's and have an established history. We're open to other exchanges but we'd like to be sure of where we are putting our money (this is why we abandoned Gox after the Wells Fargo fiasco/seizure)

 ~ Will the funds be traded manually or by "bots"?
Both. The "bots" are based off aido/ATPs design but are largely our own design. Both manual trading and bots will use essentially the same strategy but we use both as a means to insure we don't rely solely on one or the other (and as a means of friendly competition between two of our three founders)

 ~ What if I don't want to invest but would like to learn more about your strategies/understanding the indicators?
We are always happy to help people learn the basics, even if you don't want to invest. Feel free to send a message to Tom and one of us will respond (Tom@coinreturn.me)

 ~ Who are you guys?
We are Tom Mica, Jeff Lombard, and Tony Dewitt. We are three friends in our late 20's who discovered bitcoin in 2011 and have been hooked since. We've seen regulators shut down other projects here on CS when people disclosed their info so we'd like to say where we're from but are a bit nervous. We are not saying we live in the U.S. but we have all visited Tacoma, Washington and found it to be lovely. Legally this portfolio is located in, and managed from the nation of Cyprus.

Have a question you want to see here? Message Tom at the above address.
Have an idea for what should be here or on our website? Please contact us with your suggestion and be sure to include a btc wallet address because if we implement it we will try to give you a tip for your idea!


Coming soon:
- Screenshots of mechanics of EMA/MACD trading/crosses
- Implementation of a delayed stream of trade history
 - A public comments form or forum on our website
 - Polls on here and our website


IMPORTANT:
Trading and/or purchase of securities "shares" of this financial instrument, CoinReturn (RETURN), involves substantial risks, including complete possible loss of principal plus other losses and is not suitable for all members of the public. You should make an independent judgment as to whether trading is appropriate for you in light of your financial condition, investment experience, risk tolerance, and other relevant factors. We will take reasonable measures to ensure accuracy of the content on this web site, however, we do not guarantee its accuracy, and will not accept liability for any damage, losses or lost profits which may arise directly or indirectly from the content or your inability to access this web site. By purchasing shares of Coinreturn (RETURN) you agree to assume liability for any potential losses and understand this investment bears risk of loss of value. Purchase of this security is not legal in all areas, by purchasing you acknowledge that you are within a jurisdiction that legally permits purchase of such a fund. The content on this web site is subject to change at any time without notice.


Last updated: 3/4/14 02:45

[1714161266]

1714161266

[1714161266]

1714161266

[thy]

Can you please post under your real bitcointalk name and not under an alt with 1 post and 0 activity so we know who's behind the listing.

[DrGregMulhauser]

...a realistic return that anyone familiar with EMAs and MACD indicator based trading can easily imagine what the returns would look like.

I am "familiar with EMAs and MACD", and I can say with 100% certainty that they tell me nothing whatsoever about what your "returns would look like".

The remaining 25% will be used for more standard investments such as near-the-money stock options, traditional stock securities, and short to medium term secured business loans.

So 25% of the "portfolio" will be short BTC, invested in fiat-denominated instruments on exchanges which you haven't mentioned, and hedged against increases in BTC via mechanisms that you haven't spelled out, meeting AML/KYC requirements in ways you haven't elucidated.

Addressing these kinds of basics directly could help improve the plausibility of what you're proposing and help it possibly, maybe -- probably not, but perhaps -- even pass the sniff test.

[superduh]

how much money will you be trading on gox

[coinreturn]

...a realistic return that anyone familiar with EMAs and MACD indicator based trading can easily imagine what the returns would look like.

I am "familiar with EMAs and MACD", and I can say with 100% certainty that they tell me nothing whatsoever about what your "returns would look like".

The remaining 25% will be used for more standard investments such as near-the-money stock options, traditional stock securities, and short to medium term secured business loans.

So 25% of the "portfolio" will be short BTC, invested in fiat-denominated instruments on exchanges which you haven't mentioned, and hedged against increases in BTC via mechanisms that you haven't spelled out, meeting AML/KYC requirements in ways you haven't elucidated.

Addressing these kinds of basics directly could help improve the plausibility of what you're proposing and help it possibly, maybe -- probably not, but perhaps -- even pass the sniff test.

1st part - We debated this---as to what kind of number to put in for potential returns on investment---and decided against putting anything specific in. Too low an estimate and investors might not buy, too high and they might get angry and underperforming. Generally speaking, the more volatile the market, the better for us. We've had some good weeks where we've doubled our holdings and others where the best we could do was 5%. We'd put our expected range at 10%-50% weekly but don't hold me to that, plenty of weeks could be better or worse.

2nd part - The 25% isn't exactly short/hedged against BTC but more of a diversification. We will be trading securities via TradeKing.com (formerly Zecco) which handles markets like NYSE, NASDAQ, other main exchanges internationally and OTC stocks in the U.S. This will be a mix of traditional hold/shorts and put/call options that are somewhat close to whatever symbols current price. The funds through TradeKing won't be to any crazy penny stocks and will generally be on companies with a fair size market cap or larger (think $250mill+).
Another part of this 25% will be in mid-april and will be a collaterized loan to a brick and morter business with terms at 1-year and 10% interest. The loan, if it materializes, is to one of our founder's ex-wife's boyfriend who has opened up an e-cig shop and has had a good deal of success but could use the capital to either expand inventory, hire employees, and/or open 2nd shop. Two of our members have already loaned him money last year(from our personal money) and have all payments on time. This loan will be secured with his car (which is worth $8500 resale and the loan won't exceed $5000) though since it involves other peoples money.

Hope this helps answer your concerns, thanks for posting.

-tom

[coinreturn]

how much money will you be trading on gox

All of it, duh!

But no we plan on trading on Bitstamp and btc-e since those are the most reliable exchanges we know of. Of course we have the same concerns as anyone else that holds funds on an online wallet but we can only do much to allievate this sadly. One thing we plan on doing is, when we know we will be holding alot of fund in BTC for at least for the foreseeable near-term, we will withdraw it to our offline wallets. Another thing we are in the process of is moving alot of our own funds to different wallets on our computers to use as an 'emergency fund' in case something goes very wrong. (think FDIC insurance) We are also determining at what point/how much to keep a portion of investors funds offline for this same purpose.

Thanks for the sarcastic, rhetorical question it does give us a chance to address more things.

-tom

[coinreturn]

Can you please post under your real bitcointalk name and not under an alt with 1 post and 0 activity so we know who's behind the listing.

I (Tom) personally don't have an account here. I think one or both of the other founders have accounts established here and I sent them a txt passing along the message and have them post with theirs.

Thanks for the input.

[lynn_402]

Pardon me for being inquisitive, but if you're able to get 125% / week, thus more than 3000% a year, why bother with looking for investors?

[coinreturn]

Pardon me for being inquisitive, but if you're able to get 125% / week, thus more than 3000% a year, why bother with looking for investors?

Maybe I mis-spoke/typo'd. Is there a specific part where you got 125% weekly? I re-read the whitelist and my posts and didn't see that but if I missed it could you let me know so I can fix that

To your question though, if we were getting 125% every week then we'd probably not need investors since we'd be busy swimming in our pools of money. As I said before though a really good week for us is 100% but some weeks are only 5% and a very rough estimate of "average' returns would be a range of 10%-50%, and even still some weeks where we lose money or basically break even. As a whole though we've come out ahead consistantly enough to feel comfortable expanding our portfolio to the public. We think if we can combine a good part of our funds with investors then the sum of the profits will be very much worthwhile to us. Bear in mind we (after the first month) are going to keep 35% of the profits, alot of projects on Cryptostocks give 90% of the profits to shareholders (supposedly anyway).
Please let me know if I didn't answer your orginal question or if you have anymore questions.

-Tom

[lynn_402]

Maybe I mis-spoke/typo'd. Is there a specific part where you got 125% weekly? I re-read the whitelist and my posts and didn't see that but if I missed it could you let me know so I can fix that

To your question though, if we were getting 125% every week then we'd probably not need investors since we'd be busy swimming in our pools of money. As I said before though a really good week for us is 100% but some weeks are only 5% and a very rough estimate of "average' returns would be a range of 10%-50%, and even still some weeks where we lose money or basically break even. As a whole though we've come out ahead consistantly enough to feel comfortable expanding our portfolio to the public. We think if we can combine a good part of our funds with investors then the sum of the profits will be very much worthwhile to us. Bear in mind we (after the first month) are going to keep 35% of the profits, alot of projects on Cryptostocks give 90% of the profits to shareholders (supposedly anyway).
Please let me know if I didn't answer your orginal question or if you have anymore questions.

-Tom

Ok thanks for your answer, I misinterpreted "We consider turning 1 btc into 1.25 btc in a week to be a success" as your view of what is an average week's return. (By 125%, I meant the original 100% + 25% profit)

This do seem interesting.

[lemfuture]

for a moment i thought you guys were Tom and Tony from tastytrade! xD
if you guys are half as dedicated as them, then im sure this investment will be worthit 

[jmutch]

Have you considered NAV/U control like BTCinvest?

This seemed to ensure value and share price were in alignment. This is something i would recommend

[Soak]

You guys seems honests and your plan is quite detailed. I bought some shares. I hope the profits will be sufficients to get a full return on investment as soon as possible. Good luck

[DeadwoodDan]

i have just bought all the outstanding shares in CoinReturn

stand by for our announcement in two weeks

[DrGregMulhauser]

1st part - We debated this---as to what kind of number to put in for potential returns on investment...

My point was that the original statement was nonsense. Saying that if you know about EMAs and MACD then you'll know what the returns look like is exactly analogous to saying that if you know what an average temperature looks like, then you'll know how many cherry tomatoes I'm going to grow this year. Since EMAs are statistical properties of markets, and average temperatures are statistical properties of weather, then yes, sure, they have some bearing on investment returns and cherry tomato returns, respectively, but to say that one somehow sheds light on predictions of the other is pure nonsense.

2nd part - The 25% isn't exactly short/hedged against BTC but more of a diversification.

On the contrary, selling BTC to buy fiat -- regardless of whether that's to invest in equities, options, fiat-denominated debt, or cherry tomatoes -- is exactly what it means to take a short a position in BTC.

Sniff test failed, utterly and completely.

[lemfuture]

^ wow strict audit
also going on with my other investment, rental starter at havelock

[thy]

Pardon me for being inquisitive, but if you're able to get 125% / week, thus more than 3000% a year, why bother with looking for investors?

Maybe I mis-spoke/typo'd. Is there a specific part where you got 125% weekly? I re-read the whitelist and my posts and didn't see that but if I missed it could you let me know so I can fix that

To your question though, if we were getting 125% every week then we'd probably not need investors since we'd be busy swimming in our pools of money. As I said before though a really good week for us is 100% but some weeks are only 5% and a very rough estimate of "average' returns would be a range of 10%-50%, and even still some weeks where we lose money or basically break even. As a whole though we've come out ahead consistantly enough to feel comfortable expanding our portfolio to the public. We think if we can combine a good part of our funds with investors then the sum of the profits will be very much worthwhile to us. Bear in mind we (after the first month) are going to keep 35% of the profits, alot of projects on Cryptostocks give 90% of the profits to shareholders (supposedly anyway).
Please let me know if I didn't answer your orginal question or if you have anymore questions.

-Tom

If you don't need investors if you were getting 25% every week in return i can't see that if your true average range of return rather is in the 10-50% weekly return it would be any different, you would still "be busy swimming in our pool of money" as you put it.

(10+50)/2 is 30 by the way, 30% is even more than 25%, just saying....

[coinreturn]

Have you considered NAV/U control like BTCinvest?

This seemed to ensure value and share price were in alignment. This is something i would recommend

Can't say we're familiar with this. Didn't find much info about the mechanics when we searched but if you have a link to how it works we'll gladly look into it.

You guys seems honests and your plan is quite detailed. I bought some shares. I hope the profits will be sufficients to get a full return on investment as soon as possible. Good luck

Thanks for the positive feedback and buying some shares! We hope profits will be sufficient to get you a full return soon!

i have just bought all the outstanding shares in CoinReturn

stand by for our announcement in two weeks

orly? I'll be sure to look out for your announcement 

[thy]

Have you considered NAV/U control like BTCinvest?

This seemed to ensure value and share price were in alignment. This is something i would recommend

Can't say we're familiar with this. Didn't find much info about the mechanics when we searched but if you have a link to how it works we'll gladly look into it.

NAV is Net Asset Value and NAV/U Net Asset Value per Unit(share). So if a share price is 0.005 like in your case and cryptostocks takes 0.15% in fees when people buy shares then after the first share is sold and before you started doing any trades the start NAV would be 0.0049925 btc as that is the total amount your positions would be worth 0.0049925/1 (share). If you for example after a few days and with for example 100 sold shares (0.49925) and before the dividend is payed would have turned that to 0.575 btc then the NAV/U would be 0.575/100 = 0.00575 btc and if it was time to pay dividend to shareholders it would then be 0.0007125 btc, ignoring what fees would eat up on the way back to cryptostocks.

NAV/U wouldn't be that useful to report once a week or something thou as you are to pay out all profit either in the form of dividend to shareholders and the rest to the administrators anyway.

[coinreturn]

1st part - We debated this---as to what kind of number to put in for potential returns on investment...

My point was that the original statement was nonsense. Saying that if you know about EMAs and MACD then you'll know what the returns look like is exactly analogous to saying that if you know what an average temperature looks like, then you'll know how many cherry tomatoes I'm going to grow this year. Since EMAs are statistical properties of markets, and average temperatures are statistical properties of weather, then yes, sure, they have some bearing on investment returns and cherry tomato returns, respectively, but to say that one somehow sheds light on predictions of the other is pure nonsense.

2nd part - The 25% isn't exactly short/hedged against BTC but more of a diversification.

On the contrary, selling BTC to buy fiat -- regardless of whether that's to invest in equities, options, fiat-denominated debt, or cherry tomatoes -- is exactly what it means to take a short a position in BTC.

Sniff test failed, utterly and completely.

Fair enough, we certainly wouldn't be able to meet SEC requirements if this were a traditional security and respect your decision to not invest with us; bitcoin investments are risky and murky so we can't fault you.

As for your first point, we agree with what you are saying which is why we've tried to make it clear that we cannot give a number for what returns are going to look like. I think we need to re-phrase the orginal point: "...can easily imagine what returns would look like" in the orginal statement. I think you read this as us saying you (as someone familiar) should be able to imagine a specific, singular value. But however, this was intended to mean that those familiar with EMAs and such would imagine that our returns can vary a great deal; not[/i] "those familiar with EMAs can easily imagine what our returns will be/are going to be", "...can easily imagine a specific single value for our returns", "can easily imagine our returns will be 40%", "can easily imagine our returns will be how many cherry tomatos a homeless person in Portland can fit in their mouth on odd-numbered days in October"
We could have worded the orginal statement alot better and are not so much saying 'you misunderstood us' but rather we miscommunicated to you. We're going to change that part of the text--- if you think you know a good way to re-state what is trying to be conveyed then feel free to share.

and just to touch on your second point: overall we have a more traditional background in finance and investing and still often use various term's traditional definitions rather than the btc community definitions. The traditional finance definition of short means borrowing a security/asset from another party to purchase later with the expectation the security will be worth less when repayment is due. This is why its called 'short' because you are 'short' the original asset (same conext as"I'm $4 short of $100"). Of course, as i'm guessing you already know, forex traders use 'short' differently as well but I'll let you cover that if you choose to.

Anyway, we still appreciate the feedback since it gives us a chance to improve (changing the wording) and wish you the best of luck with your investments.

-Tom and Jeff