[RETURN] Announcing CoinReturn Financial IPO!

[DrGregMulhauser]

You'll forgive me, I hope, if the feelings of crankiness you're managing to generate show through a bit here...

Fair enough, we certainly wouldn't be able to meet SEC requirements if this were a traditional security...

This has nothing to do with meeting SEC requirements; it has to do with satisfying the barest minimum of demonstrating an accurate grasp of basic concepts.

As for your first point, we agree with what you are saying which is why we've tried to make it clear that we cannot give a number for what returns are going to look like...

Here again, this has nothing to do with giving a specific number for returns; it has to do with spouting acronyms in a nonsensical context and either 1) not knowing what they mean, or 2) hoping that nobody else knows what they mean.

...if you think you know a good way to re-state what is trying to be conveyed then feel free to share.

Of course I do, but I do not provide free consulting in this sort of context.

...overall we have a more traditional background in finance and investing and still often use various term's traditional definitions rather than the btc community definitions. The traditional finance definition of short means borrowing a security/asset from another party...

Wow, now you're just insulting people's intelligence while simultaneously looking silly.

You are talking about a BTC-denominated "investment". When you sell BTC out of the coffers of a BTC-denominated investment, you are liable for ultimately replenishing those coffers with BTC. The equity of that BTC-denominated investment is -- shocker -- valued in BTC. You don't get to put USD equities, USD loans to friends, and fluffy white kittens on the balance sheet and just value them however you want to value them -- you value them in BTC. This has nothing to do with special "btc community definitions".

Since you've steadfastly avoided the question of how you intend to hedge your short positions in BTC, all while insisting that you're not really going to be short BTC at all, you might enjoy the article "How to Lose Money with a Bitcoin Investment, Part 2: The Unhedged Short". Or even "How to Short Bitcoin -- Without Just Being Silly".

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[coinreturn]

First dividend has been paid out! We started trading just in time to take advantage of the recent slide ~$645 to $610 (btc-e prices) and with the bit of volatility inbetween were able to net about .093btc which came out to 0.00030041BTC per share. Sure it's not amazing but we hope you, as shareholders, find it a respectable enough start to stick with us.

[lynn_402]

First dividend has been paid out! We started trading just in time to take advantage of the recent slide ~$645 to $610 (btc-e prices) and with the bit of volatility inbetween were able to net about .093btc which came out to 0.00030041BTC per share. Sure it's not amazing but we hope you, as shareholders, find it a respectable enough start to stick with us.

On the contrary, it's quite amazing. I'd have been more than satisfied with 3% profit / week
Thank you and congratulations!

[MPOE-PR]

See here, OP.

[BitcoinINV]

See here, OP.

No one cares, if they did it would be stickied go back to your home on whore island you smelly pirate hooker!

[coinreturn]

2nd dividend has been paid. A total of 0.0928 at 0.00018870 per share. Thanks for your support, we're about to hit the 500 share mark. Next dividend is 3/11

[Soak]

2nd dividend has been paid. A total of 0.0928 at 0.00018870 per share. Thanks for your support, we're about to hit the 500 share mark. Next dividend is 3/11

Can we expect a linear progression on the total of dividends as well? The dividends are actually good because there are only a few shares sold yet, but what will happen when all 10,000 shares will be sold?

[DeadwoodDan]

2nd dividend has been paid. A total of 0.0928 at 0.00018870 per share. Thanks for your support, we're about to hit the 500 share mark. Next dividend is 3/11

Can we expect a linear progression on the total of dividends as well? The dividends are actually good because there are a few shares sold yet, but what will happen when all 5000 shares will be sold?

The issuing company will pay "dividends" for a few weeks and then disappear.

[Clobered09]

I also have concerns regarding how KYC/AML requirements will interact with the operation of this fund if it involves investment in securities traded on regulated exchanges.  It's clear that most crypto-investment schemes fall on the wrong side of nearly every country's securities regulations, but for the most part they don't go stirring up the beehive.  In order to get funds on a regulated exchange, you're going to either have to lie on compliance forms, or just get blocked from every trading platform.  Both of those tend to end pretty badly.  Is there something I'm missing?

[coinreturn]

2nd dividend has been paid. A total of 0.0928 at 0.00018870 per share. Thanks for your support, we're about to hit the 500 share mark. Next dividend is 3/11

Can we expect a linear progression on the total of dividends as well? The dividends are actually good because there are only a few shares sold yet, but what will happen when all 10,000 shares will be sold?

That is our hope of course. However some of the initial funds included not only funds from public shareholders but our (the operators of the project) 'matching funds' as well, which did give a boost to the size of the profit of the first dividends. Our orginal intent was to hold private shares and to find a way to put this funding through CS but it just wasn't practical; so we basically just gave these funds to the portfolio, this way we could start trading and generating a profit right away. These funds aren't "separate" or anything (as in we are going to withdraw them or think of them as "ours"), they are now part of the portfolio.
 The short answer here is we hope to be paying out a per share rate similar to the first three dividends (hopefully better of course though) and if the portfolio performs similarly, they should be. As the other strategies get underway they could change things, for the better we'd hope. For instance, if we recieve a payment on the first of every month then the first dividend of the month would be a good bit larger---but again this is more down the road at this point.
Hope this helps answer things for you, feel free to ask us any other questions

[coinreturn]

2nd dividend has been paid. A total of 0.0928 at 0.00018870 per share. Thanks for your support, we're about to hit the 500 share mark. Next dividend is 3/11

Can we expect a linear progression on the total of dividends as well? The dividends are actually good because there are a few shares sold yet, but what will happen when all 5000 shares will be sold?

The issuing company will pay "dividends" for a few weeks and then disappear.

Given how many projects on CryptoStocks have ended up like that we can't blame you for thinking so. If I were in your place I'd think the same thing. Our hope is to be one of the few good ones that manages to stick around (autotrade, CCC, cryptsy, etc).

-tom

[coinreturn]

I also have concerns regarding how KYC/AML requirements will interact with the operation of this fund if it involves investment in securities traded on regulated exchanges.  It's clear that most crypto-investment schemes fall on the wrong side of nearly every country's securities regulations, but for the most part they don't go stirring up the beehive.  In order to get funds on a regulated exchange, you're going to either have to lie on compliance forms, or just get blocked from every trading platform.  Both of those tend to end pretty badly.  Is there something I'm missing?

No, you're right on the money. After some debate in the past week we've decided to scrap this part of the portfolio for the very reasons you touched on. We'll be updating this on our site and listing soon. If your curious about how we planned on going about this originally we can detail it but basically it was too cumbersome, impractical, and posed too much risk legally and financially. We intended to start into this area later on and with less funds so its no major loss (and is probably better for the portfolio in the long run)

- Tom and Jeff

[blaster51]

It's just looking like lets pay dividend for 1-2 weeks and run away with the money!
What is speaking for your Shares, why should we purchase it??
autotrade is just a better form to invest, because it's save, and this doesn't seems like it.... or can you prove me wrong?

[coinreturn]

It's just looking like lets pay dividend for 1-2 weeks and run away with the money!
What is speaking for your Shares, why should we purchase it??
autotrade is just a better form to invest, because it's save, and this doesn't seems like it.... or can you prove me wrong?

That's an absolutely valid point and we must admit we certainly have been impressed by Autotrade. We can't speak to their safety since none of us know Chinese but the fact that they haven't ran-off with the $1/2 million they've got says something. We don't know what Autotrade has done to prove their reliability other than sticking around and still paying out dividends but that's pretty much all we can do to prove ourselves. Our initial shareholders have already got over 25% of their initial investment back and, so far, we've managed about a 20% weekly ROI. So if we're going to run off with investors money then we're pretty bad at since we've given so much of it back to them. We can't honestly say that every week is going to be a great return and the dividends will always be huge, more than likely some weeks the dividends are going to suck; but we think we've got a model that will do well consistently enough to make you feel like your investment has been worthwhile and without regret.
With that though, we completely understand that we haven't yet proven ourselves and that any investor on CS has plenty of reason to be suspect of every project (Altswap, Green, DIVC, Bitbond, anyone?) but as time goes on and we keep paying out regularly and letting everyone know whats going on each step of the way we hope we can earn your trust. If you don't want to buy today, tomorrow, or next week that's totally okay; because we will still be here next month and after paying out dividends. We wish there was a better way to prove you wrong but, like any investment vehicle, time is going to be the only thing that truly makes our case.

[lemfuture]

It's just looking like lets pay dividend for 1-2 weeks and run away with the money!
What is speaking for your Shares, why should we purchase it??
autotrade is just a better form to invest, because it's save, and this doesn't seems like it.... or can you prove me wrong?

That's an absolutely valid point and we must admit we certainly have been impressed by Autotrade. We can't speak to their safety since none of us know Chinese but the fact that they haven't ran-off with the $1/2 million they've got says something. We don't know what Autotrade has done to prove their reliability other than sticking around and still paying out dividends but that's pretty much all we can do to prove ourselves. Our initial shareholders have already got over 25% of their initial investment back and, so far, we've managed about a 20% weekly ROI. So if we're going to run off with investors money then we're pretty bad at since we've given so much of it back to them. We can't honestly say that every week is going to be a great return and the dividends will always be huge, more than likely some weeks the dividends are going to suck; but we think we've got a model that will do well consistently enough to make you feel like your investment has been worthwhile and without regret.
With that though, we completely understand that we haven't yet proven ourselves and that any investor on CS has plenty of reason to be suspect of every project (Altswap, Green, DIVC, Bitbond, anyone?) but as time goes on and we keep paying out regularly and letting everyone know whats going on each step of the way we hope we can earn your trust. If you don't want to buy today, tomorrow, or next week that's totally okay; because we will still be here next month and after paying out dividends. We wish there was a better way to prove you wrong but, like any investment vehicle, time is going to be the only thing that truly makes our case.

how about a public profile..more transparency whose behind the team, so that if one day worst case scenario you run with the money, the shareholders can sue somebody something, not just verbally but literally in a court
private funded company=privacy
publicfunded company=transparancy

[blaster51]

Our initial shareholders have already got over 25% of their initial investment back and, so far, we've managed about a 20% weekly ROI. So if we're going to run off with investors money then we're pretty bad at since we've given so much of it back to them.

Yes but you can get more btc, then more guys are willing to buy... so more btc for you
My mainpoint is, you guys don't give us any proof, what you are doing. ZERO
I can make up a story too, and give out random dividends and then leave, it's not that hard to be honest!

[lynn_402]

This does seem too good to be true, but investors please keep in mind that the current very high profits are greatly helped by this, and does not indicate that CoinReturn is a ponzi:

some of the initial funds included not only funds from public shareholders but our (the operators of the project) 'matching funds' as well, which did give a boost to the size of the profit of the first dividends. Our orginal intent was to hold private shares and to find a way to put this funding through CS but it just wasn't practical; so we basically just gave these funds to the portfolio, this way we could start trading and generating a profit right away. These funds aren't "separate" or anything (as in we are going to withdraw them or think of them as "ours"), they are now part of the portfolio.

The OP is way more open to communication, and seems quite a bit more intelligent , than the typical scammer on Cryptostocks (I do tend to judge potential scammers by how they write, it might be naive, but it has worked very well thus far). This makes me feel like its worth the risk, to either lose some money or see it get doubled in a matter of months. I believe the odds are 25% for the former and 75% for the latter, which are way better odds than the gambling sites

[lynn_402]

Why have you stopped selling shares?

[coinreturn]

Why have you stopped selling shares?

Sorry we haven't responded to the other posts yet. We suspended the IPO for a few reasons: we wanted to give investors a chance to sell their shares if they so choose, to see what the equilibrium price would be, and to give us a little weekend break from work outside managing the portfolio---will still be trading but two of us have prior commitments this weekend and we don't want to leave a bunch of btc in our CS account incase a couple hundred shares are sold. Also, as mentioned a few days ago 3/23's dividend will be rolled into 3/25's. Also if you message us or post here this weekend we might be slow getting back to you.
Tentatively our plan is to suspend the IPO only for a week and then we will resume it, likely at the same price of .005. We don't want anyone to feel like they are "stuck" with shares, even if you like our project maybe you need to sell some btc in a hurry or need liquidity for some other reason.
So it's a number of factors, kind of a mini-spring break of sorts. We'll keep everyone posted as best we can as always.

[DeadwoodDan]

We suspended the IPO for a few reasons: we wanted to give investors a chance to sell their shares if they so choose, to see what the equilibrium price would be, and to give us a little weekend break from work outside managing the portfolio---will still be trading but two of us have prior commitments this weekend and we don't want to leave a bunch of btc in our CS account incase a couple hundred shares are sold.

LOL you guys are awesome

Funny, funny shit