REEEEE: PussyGate, a Collection of Trump Investigations

[TwitchySeal]

Why would Flynn plead guilty to a crime he didn't commit?

To avoid being charged for the more serious crimes he did commit.

Present the evidence to back this assertion.

I already did.  You think that a retired 3 star general lobbying America policy makers to support another country without disclosing the fact that he was paid $500k by foreign interest is 'a manufactured process crime'.

Spendulus took a different route and pivoted to "he wasn't charged with the crime so I don't care stop talking about it" attitude.

I could also prove that when he eventually did file as a foreign agent, he made materially false statements and omitted information he was required to provide, but honestly I don't think there's literally anything that would convince either of you that Flynn committed serious crimes.  Trump said he's innocent - in your minds that trumps any actual facts.  Plus you could always just google a bunch of articles defending Flynn.

[Viper1]

lawful behavior of investigators in collecting evidence

Care to show me what they did was illegal? Last time I looked at it, it wasn't. That's the fault of the crap laws involved and not the actions of the FBI. You can argue about the morality about it all you want, but as far as I know, it wasn't illegal. Granted I looked at it a few months ago so maybe something new has come to light.

[TwitchySeal]

lawful behavior of investigators in collecting evidence

Care to show me what they did was illegal? Last time I looked at it, it wasn't. That's the fault of the crap laws involved and not the actions of the FBI. You can argue about the morality about it all you want, but as far as I know, it wasn't illegal. Granted I looked at it a few months ago so maybe something new has come to light.

The main complaint seems to be that they didn't tell him that it's illegal to lie to the fbi.

The agents notes were released, they discussed not telling him at first because they wanted him to be relaxed when they asked him questions that they already knew the answers to and would force him to either lie, confess or refuse to answer.

[Spendulus]

Why would Flynn plead guilty to a crime he didn't commit?

To avoid being charged for the more serious crimes he did commit.

Present the evidence to back this assertion.

I already did.  You think that a retired 3 star general lobbying America policy makers to support another country without disclosing the fact that he was paid $500k by foreign interest is 'a manufactured process crime'.

Spendulus took a different route and pivoted to "he wasn't charged with the crime so I don't care stop talking about it" attitude.

I could also prove that when he eventually did file as a foreign agent, he made materially false statements and omitted information he was required to provide, but honestly I don't think there's literally anything that would convince either of you that Flynn committed serious crimes.  Trump said he's innocent - in your minds that trumps any actual facts.  Plus you could always just google a bunch of articles defending Flynn.

No, you really have not shown that he was guilty. I understand that you think you have, but you have not. You'd have to do quite a bit of research, and prepare a properly argued brief, to get half way where you think you already are. You'd have to cover the common arguments by defense in said brief. And defeat those arguments.

There are many technical details in such a matter, and there are numerous standards to be met before a DA would take a case and bring it to court. He'd have to be pretty certain that he was going to win, right?

[TwitchySeal]

Why would Flynn plead guilty to a crime he didn't commit?

To avoid being charged for the more serious crimes he did commit.

Present the evidence to back this assertion.

I already did.  You think that a retired 3 star general lobbying America policy makers to support another country without disclosing the fact that he was paid $500k by foreign interest is 'a manufactured process crime'.

Spendulus took a different route and pivoted to "he wasn't charged with the crime so I don't care stop talking about it" attitude.

I could also prove that when he eventually did file as a foreign agent, he made materially false statements and omitted information he was required to provide, but honestly I don't think there's literally anything that would convince either of you that Flynn committed serious crimes.  Trump said he's innocent - in your minds that trumps any actual facts.  Plus you could always just google a bunch of articles defending Flynn.

No, you really have not shown that he was guilty. I understand that you think you have, but you have not. You'd have to do quite a bit of research, and prepare a properly argued brief, to get half way where you think you already are. You'd have to cover the common arguments by defense in said brief. And defeat those arguments.

There are many technical details in such a matter, and there are numerous standards to be met before a DA would take a case and bring it to court. He'd have to be pretty certain that he was going to win, right?

In late 2016 he:
Registered as a lobbiest.
Did not register as a foreign agent.
Lobbied to support Turkey.
Was paid $500k by a Turkish company.

In March 2017 he:
Registered retroactively as a foreign agent because of his actions in late 2016.

What have I not proven.  If we can agree that the above is true I'll move on to the false statements and omissions he made on is FARA filing.

Or, if you think it's not a big deal like TECSHARE I won't bother.

[Spendulus]

...
What have I not proven.  If we can agree that the above is true I'll move on to the false statements and omissions he made on is FARA filing.
...

I have to hand it to you. You've just proved that the BBC, XINHUA, CARE, AIPAC, RT, Al Jazeerra, and Fox News, and about ten thousand Chinese agents in universities need to register as a foreign agents. Including a couple Chinese agents who wrote Badecker's prize find report "Fire did not down World Trade Center Building 7".

Not to mention John Podesta, Diane Feldstein's chauffeur, Hillary's bosom buddy Huma Aberdin, Valarie Jerret, and Debbie Wasserman's IT dickhead.

[TwitchySeal]

...
What have I not proven.  If we can agree that the above is true I'll move on to the false statements and omissions he made on is FARA filing.
...

I have to hand it to you. You've just proved that the BBC, XINHUA, CARE, AIPAC, RT, Al Jazeerra, and Fox News, and about ten thousand Chinese agents in universities need to register as a foreign agents. Including a couple Chinese agents who wrote Badecker's prize find report "Fire did not down World Trade Center Building 7".

Not to mention John Podesta, Diane Feldstein's chauffeur, Hillary's bosom buddy Huma Aberdin, Valarie Jerret, and Debbie Wasserman's IT dickhead.

In late 2016 he:
1) Registered as a lobbiest.
2) Did not register as a foreign agent.
3) Lobbied to support Turkey.
4) Was paid $500k by a Turkish company.

In March 2017 he:
5) Registered retroactively as a foreign agent because of his actions in late 2016.


Let's try to look at the whole thing objectively and put political views aside.

Do you believe that these 5 things are true?

[Spendulus]

...
What have I not proven.  If we can agree that the above is true I'll move on to the false statements and omissions he made on is FARA filing.
...

I have to hand it to you. You've just proved that the BBC, XINHUA, CARE, AIPAC, RT, Al Jazeerra, and Fox News, and about ten thousand Chinese agents in universities need to register as a foreign agents. Including a couple Chinese agents who wrote Badecker's prize find report "Fire did not down World Trade Center Building 7".

Not to mention John Podesta, Diane Feldstein's chauffeur, Hillary's bosom buddy Huma Aberdin, Valarie Jerret, and Debbie Wasserman's IT dickhead.

In late 2016 he:
1) Registered as a lobbiest.
2) Did not register as a foreign agent.
3) Lobbied to support Turkey.
4) Was paid $500k by a Turkish company.

In March 2017 he:
5) Registered retroactively as a foreign agent because of his actions in late 2016.


Let's try to look at the whole thing objectively and put political views aside.

Do you believe that these 5 things are true?

I don't have any idea if they are true. Therefore, I do not "believe they are true."

If they are true, they are things that did not get prosecuted. Of course, you have no dates, there, only the vaguest semblance of facts. I'm sure that's the way you were told to present the issue, since you've now repeated it three times. (lol...getting pretty close to the four year statute of limitations?)

Objectively, filing late is better than not filing at all. Quite a few documents are filed late. Usually there are penalties and such.

[TECSHARE]

Why would Flynn plead guilty to a crime he didn't commit?

To avoid being charged for the more serious crimes he did commit.

Present the evidence to back this assertion.

I already did.  You think that a retired 3 star general lobbying America policy makers to support another country without disclosing the fact that he was paid $500k by foreign interest is 'a manufactured process crime'.

Spendulus took a different route and pivoted to "he wasn't charged with the crime so I don't care stop talking about it" attitude.

I could also prove that when he eventually did file as a foreign agent, he made materially false statements and omitted information he was required to provide, but honestly I don't think there's literally anything that would convince either of you that Flynn committed serious crimes.  Trump said he's innocent - in your minds that trumps any actual facts.  Plus you could always just google a bunch of articles defending Flynn.

No, you didn't. You make a habit of refusing to source your claims. These charges were created using parallel construction, and were designed to entrap Flynn into a plea deal so they could pressure him into perjuring himself and testifying against Trump so they could remove him from office.

"FBI reviewed Flynn’s calls with Russian ambassador but found nothing illicit"

https://outline.com/na7ffR



"Exculpatory Russia evidence about Mike Flynn that US intel kept secret"

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/423558-exculpatory-russia-evidence-about-mike-flynn-that-us-intel-kept-secret



"Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell Return to Court – Powell Confirms Rosenstein Authorized Targeting of Flynn Jr. for Leverage…"

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/09/10/michael-flynn-and-sidney-powell-return-to-court-powell-confirms-rosenstein-authorized-targeting-of-flynn-jr-for-leverage/comment-page-1/



"Strzok stopped FBI from ending Flynn probe despite lack of 'derogatory' evidence, unsealed documents reveal"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/strzok-stopped-bureau-from-ending-flynn-probe-despite-lack-of-derogatory-evidence-unsealed-documents-reveal



"Logan ActUnited States [1799]"

https://www.britannica.com/event/Logan-Act



This was never about Flynn. This was just one of several people railroaded under color of law in order to try to force Trump out of office by coercing them into giving false testimony against Trump.

[Spendulus]

...
This was never about Flynn. This was just one of several people railroaded under color of law in order to try to force Trump out of office by coercing them into giving false testimony against Trump.

It's not impossible that some lower level FBI employees involved in the work were not told of the actual scheme, and actually thought it was an investigation into Russian Collusion.

Maybe a secretary, or a janitor?

[TECSHARE]

...
This was never about Flynn. This was just one of several people railroaded under color of law in order to try to force Trump out of office by coercing them into giving false testimony against Trump.

It's not impossible that some lower level FBI employees involved in the work were not told of the actual scheme, and actually thought it was an investigation into Russian Collusion.

Maybe a secretary, or a janitor?

People are speculating the hand written notes that just came out were purposely taken by an agent that didn't feel right about the railroading he was witnessing and purposely documented the violations of procedure and law for the record and to cover his own ass.

[TwitchySeal]

...
What have I not proven.  If we can agree that the above is true I'll move on to the false statements and omissions he made on is FARA filing.
...

I have to hand it to you. You've just proved that the BBC, XINHUA, CARE, AIPAC, RT, Al Jazeerra, and Fox News, and about ten thousand Chinese agents in universities need to register as a foreign agents. Including a couple Chinese agents who wrote Badecker's prize find report "Fire did not down World Trade Center Building 7".

Not to mention John Podesta, Diane Feldstein's chauffeur, Hillary's bosom buddy Huma Aberdin, Valarie Jerret, and Debbie Wasserman's IT dickhead.

In late 2016 he:
1) Registered as a lobbiest.
2) Did not register as a foreign agent.
3) Lobbied to support Turkey.
4) Was paid $500k by a Turkish company.

In March 2017 he:
5) Registered retroactively as a foreign agent because of his actions in late 2016.


Let's try to look at the whole thing objectively and put political views aside.

Do you believe that these 5 things are true?

I don't have any idea if they are true. Therefore, I do not "believe they are true."

Ok.  I'll give you some information so you have an idea.

Let's start with #1, and I'll be more specific - there are 2 parts really:

A) Flynn was the chairman and CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC.

B) FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016.


A)

Here's a letter submitted to the senate by Flynns lawyer.  We'll get to the actual contents of the letter later, for now just notice the first sentence:
https://efile.fara.gov/docs/6406-Registration-Statement-20170307-1.pdf

We write on behalf of our clients Flynn Intel Group and its Chairman and CEO, General Michael T. Ftynn

Also notice that Michael Flynns last name is used in FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC

B)

Here's a lobby disclosure act filing, made by FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC  9/15/2016:
https://soprweb.senate.gov/index.cfm?event=getFilingDetails&filingID=38f812b5-2692-449a-9f02-15ed82f4ec24&filingTypeID=1




So, do have an idea now as to whether or not Flynn was involved with lobbying the federal government in late 2016?

[TECSHARE]

Ok.  I'll give you some information so you have an idea.

Let's start with #1, and I'll be more specific - there are 2 parts really:

A) Flynn was the chairman and CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC.

B) FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016.


A)

Here's a letter submitted to the senate by Flynns lawyer.  We'll get to the actual contents of the letter later, for now just notice the first sentence:
https://efile.fara.gov/docs/6406-Registration-Statement-20170307-1.pdf

We write on behalf of our clients Flynn Intel Group and its Chairman and CEO, General Michael T. Ftynn

Also notice that Michael Flynns last name is used in FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC

B)

Here's a lobby disclosure act filing, made by FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC  9/15/2016:
https://soprweb.senate.gov/index.cfm?event=getFilingDetails&filingID=38f812b5-2692-449a-9f02-15ed82f4ec24&filingTypeID=1




So, do have an idea now as to whether or not Flynn was involved with lobbying the federal government in late 2016?

So tell me. Having gone through all of these disclosure processes, what exactly did he have to gain by lying about all of this? I mean not only were all of these things on record, but he knew very clearly every related call he was making was being transcribed. What possible motivation would he have for intentionally lying about things he knew for a fact were a matter of record?

[Viper1]

lawful behavior of investigators in collecting evidence

Care to show me what they did was illegal? Last time I looked at it, it wasn't. That's the fault of the crap laws involved and not the actions of the FBI. You can argue about the morality about it all you want, but as far as I know, it wasn't illegal. Granted I looked at it a few months ago so maybe something new has come to light.

The main complaint seems to be that they didn't tell him that it's illegal to lie to the fbi.

The agents notes were released, they discussed not telling him at first because they wanted him to be relaxed when they asked him questions that they already knew the answers to and would force him to either lie, confess or refuse to answer.

Right. And they didn't have to and it's not illegal what they did. Still waiting to hear something that would show that it is illegal. The issue is the law itself that doesn't have any real checks on it to prevent it being used as it is in many, many cases. People should stop bitching about the FBI and put the blame where it always should be placed. With the law makers.

[Spendulus]

....
So, do have an idea now as to whether or not Flynn was involved with lobbying the federal government in late 2016?

It would appear that you have not been truthful about the consequences of late filing under the FARA Act.  The actual fact here is you've read some propaganda and believed it. Flynn's "filing late" was not "a more serious charge." It was a trivial case.Now you have to consider the actual legal MEANING of the "failure to file" being "willful" or not. Here are the actual facts...DIRECT FROM THE FARA WEBSITE

It certainly looks like he was late in getting some of that darn government paperwork in.

So what?

Here is the FARA policy.




WHAT SHOULD I DO IF MY REGISTRATION IS LATE?

Agents who do not file a registration when the obligation arises should register as soon as possible and contact the FARA Unit indicating the reason for the delinquency.

ARE THERE CONSEQUENCES FOR LATE FILINGS?

Yes.  Late filings may be considered a deficiency in registration, in which case a party could be prohibited from acting as an agent of a foreign principal pursuant to 22 U.S.C. § 618(g).  The Department of Justice could also seek an injunction to order compliance with FARA pursuant to 22 U.S.C. § 618(f), or pursue criminal charges pursuant to 22 U.S.C. § 618(a), if the failure to file is willful.

https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/frequently-asked-questions#23

[TwitchySeal]

....
So, do have an idea now as to whether or not Flynn was involved with lobbying the federal government in late 2016?

It would appear that you have not been truthful about the consequences of late filing under the FARA Act.  The actual fact here is you've read some propaganda and believed it. Flynn's "filing late" was not "a more serious charge." It was a trivial case.Now you have to consider the actual legal MEANING of the "failure to file" being "willful" or not. Here are the actual facts...DIRECT FROM THE FARA WEBSITE

It certainly looks like he was late in getting some of that darn government paperwork in.

So what?

Here is the FARA policy.




WHAT SHOULD I DO IF MY REGISTRATION IS LATE?

Agents who do not file a registration when the obligation arises should register as soon as possible and contact the FARA Unit indicating the reason for the delinquency.

ARE THERE CONSEQUENCES FOR LATE FILINGS?

Yes.  Late filings may be considered a deficiency in registration, in which case a party could be prohibited from acting as an agent of a foreign principal pursuant to 22 U.S.C. § 618(g).  The Department of Justice could also seek an injunction to order compliance with FARA pursuant to 22 U.S.C. § 618(f), or pursue criminal charges pursuant to 22 U.S.C. § 618(a), if the failure to file is willful.

https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/frequently-asked-questions#23

When we get to what he actually put on the FARA filing things will become more clear.  

Do you have enough information to accept that:

A) Flynn was the chairman and CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC.

B) FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016.


Can we agree this much is true?

[Spendulus]

....
When we get to what he actually put on the FARA filing things will become more clear.  

Do you have enough information to accept that

A) Flynn was the chairman and CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC.

B) FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016.

No, things will not "become more clear" because they are confused in your mind only.

Next, let's look at what happens if a FARA filing is inaccurate or wrong, or if conditions change for the entity utilizing FARA.

HOW OFTEN MUST A REGISTRANT SUPPLEMENT OR UPDATE ITS INITIAL REGISTRATION?

Registrants must file supplemental statements at six-month intervals following the date of the registrant’s initial registration.  The supplemental statement, and its corresponding filing fee of $305.00 for each foreign principal, is due 30 days after the six-month reporting end date.  See 22 U.S.C. § 612(b); 28 C.F.R. § 5.203.

https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/frequently-asked-questions#27

What happens? You update the information every six months or as requested.

PS: You said "FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016." and seem to think this is somehow evidence for a need to file under FARA.

Filing under the LDA is black and white letter law one of the allowed EXEMPTIONS TO FARA. However, there are numerous vague details and uncertainties in how to interpret such a thing. It may be that Flynn later filed under FARA in order to "cover all the bases."

https://www.cov.com/-/media/files/corporate/publications/2018/01/the_foreign_agents_registration_act_fara_a_guide_for_the_perplexed.pdf

[TwitchySeal]

....
When we get to what he actually put on the FARA filing things will become more clear.  

Do you have enough information to accept that

A) Flynn was the chairman and CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC.

B) FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016.

No, things will not "become more clear" because they are confused in your mind only.

Next, let's look at what happens if a FARA filing is inaccurate or wrong, or if conditions change for the entity utilizing FARA.

HOW OFTEN MUST A REGISTRANT SUPPLEMENT OR UPDATE ITS INITIAL REGISTRATION?

Registrants must file supplemental statements at six-month intervals following the date of the registrant’s initial registration.  The supplemental statement, and its corresponding filing fee of $305.00 for each foreign principal, is due 30 days after the six-month reporting end date.  See 22 U.S.C. § 612(b); 28 C.F.R. § 5.203.

https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/frequently-asked-questions#27

What happens? You update the information every six months or as requested.

PS: You said "FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016." and seem to think this is somehow evidence for a need to file under FARA.

Filing under the LDA is black and white letter law one of the allowed EXEMPTIONS TO FARA. However, there are numerous vague details and uncertainties in how to interpret such a thing. It may be that Flynn later filed under FARA in order to "cover all the bases."

https://www.cov.com/-/media/files/corporate/publications/2018/01/the_foreign_agents_registration_act_fara_a_guide_for_the_perplexed.pdf

I'm just trying to go step by step to see what we can agree on.

Flynn is CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. (FIG), they filed under the LDA in Sept 2016 and FARA in March 2017.
On election day 2016 his op-ed Our ally Turkey is in crisis and needs our support
From Sept-Nov 2016 FIG received ~$500k from Iovo, a company based in the Netherlands.

I'm not implying anything here, this isn't an attempted 'gotcha'. I'm just trying to agree on facts.  Do you agree with me that the above 3 statements are true?  If not, which one(s)?

[TECSHARE]

I'm just trying to go step by step to see what we can agree on.

Flynn is CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. (FIG), they filed under the LDA in Sept 2016 and FARA in March 2017.
On election day 2016 his op-ed Our ally Turkey is in crisis and needs our support
From Sept-Nov 2016 FIG received ~$500k from Iovo, a company based in the Netherlands.

I'm not implying anything here, this isn't an attempted 'gotcha', I'm just trying to agree on facts.  Do you agree with me that the above facts are true?  If not, which one(s)?

No you are not. You are desperately trying to manage a narrative within which you have zero arguments by dictating the subject of conversation with a micro focus and ignoring all evidence and questions presented to you in favor of pretending you are taking the role of educator in your mind. You are willfully ignorant, you are unable to present a logical argument, and you are unable to back up any of your assertions.

[Spendulus]

....
When we get to what he actually put on the FARA filing things will become more clear.  

Do you have enough information to accept that

A) Flynn was the chairman and CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC.

B) FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016.

No, things will not "become more clear" because they are confused in your mind only.

Next, let's look at what happens if a FARA filing is inaccurate or wrong, or if conditions change for the entity utilizing FARA.

HOW OFTEN MUST A REGISTRANT SUPPLEMENT OR UPDATE ITS INITIAL REGISTRATION?

Registrants must file supplemental statements at six-month intervals following the date of the registrant’s initial registration.  The supplemental statement, and its corresponding filing fee of $305.00 for each foreign principal, is due 30 days after the six-month reporting end date.  See 22 U.S.C. § 612(b); 28 C.F.R. § 5.203.

https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/frequently-asked-questions#27

What happens? You update the information every six months or as requested.

PS: You said "FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. disclosed under the Lobbying Disclosure Act that they were going to lobby the federal government in early 2016." and seem to think this is somehow evidence for a need to file under FARA.

Filing under the LDA is black and white letter law one of the allowed EXEMPTIONS TO FARA. However, there are numerous vague details and uncertainties in how to interpret such a thing. It may be that Flynn later filed under FARA in order to "cover all the bases."

https://www.cov.com/-/media/files/corporate/publications/2018/01/the_foreign_agents_registration_act_fara_a_guide_for_the_perplexed.pdf

I'm just trying to go step by step to see what we can agree on.

Flynn is CEO of FLYNN INTEL GROUP INC. (FIG), they filed under the LDA in Sept 2016 and FARA in March 2017.
On election day 2016 his op-ed Our ally Turkey is in crisis and needs our support
From Sept-Nov 2016 FIG received ~$500k from Iovo, a company based in the Netherlands.

I'm not implying anything here, this isn't an attempted 'gotcha'. I'm just trying to agree on facts.  Do you agree with me that the above 3 statements are true?  If not, which one(s)?

So far you've been wrong about the "serious crime" of not filing FARA, wrong about the relationship between LDA and FARA, wrong about the seriousness or lack of in updating FARA documents...

Where are you getting this garbage, if you don't mind me asking? some shit site like Media Matters?