Is the Default trust system still working/active?

[fonship]

Well, this is a feature which majority don't care and understand. I think very less attention given to this topic.
Even after years, I don't understand how this trust system works.
I think we need more transparency in this.

[S_Therapist]

Even after years, I don't understand how this trust system works.
I think we need more transparency in this.

I have tried my best to explain both the trust system and DT. Hope you will find it worthy. Feel free to ask question. I will happily try to help you understanding the system.
[Explained] How Trust Score is calculated
and
[Explained] How DT system works

[fonship]

I went through both link, simple and very good explanation. Thank you for that.
Now I don't understand why despite that I have 4 ratings, they are not showing up on my profile?

[TryNinja]

I went through both link, simple and very good explanation. Thank you for that.
Now I don't understand why despite that I have 4 ratings, they are not showing up on my profile?

Because they are coming from untrusted users (from the default trust point of view). Read the second thread again (How DT system works).

[S_Therapist]

I went through both link, simple and very good explanation. Thank you for that.
Now I don't understand why despite that I have 4 ratings, they are not showing up on my profile?

TryNinja has already said that they are from untrusted networks. Now, if you go to your trust setting and include the name of those persons from whom you got feedback, you can see those in your profile. No one else will see as long as they will also be included in their trust list. For example, if I add sparkweb in my trust list, I will see the feedback. I have just added sparkweb in my trust list for showing you.

[fonship]

Now this makes sense. Got it now.
So until I get trust from some very big level it won't be visible enough.

[S_Therapist]

Now this makes sense. Got it now.
So until I get trust from some very big level it won't be visible enough.

There is nothing called big level although we have some members called DT. If everyone uses a custom trust list, the DT member will not be big level anymore. If you have included someone in your trust list, you will be able to see his feedback to other's profile or in your profile.
I think you should again read the two threads earlier I suggested and try to understand how it works.

[fonship]

Yeah I have read it.
Problem is majority users are not aware of how to use trust system and merit system
So mostly for trust, its big level what i was referring to is having trust from one DT person, bcoz that will be visible to everyone.
I think forum moderators can see how many poeple have custom trust setting, i assumption is that they should be very very few.

May be BT should start some area to educate or some weekly email to users with these details, or whoever sign-up few should get somehow to use this platform effectively.

[S_Therapist]

Yeah I have read it.
Problem is majority users are not aware of how to use trust system and merit system
So mostly for trust, its big level what i was referring to is having trust from one DT person, bcoz that will be visible to everyone.
I think forum moderators can see how many poeple have custom trust setting, i assumption is that they should be very very few.

May be BT should start some area to educate or some weekly email to users with these details, or whoever sign-up few should get somehow to use this platform effectively.

It's true that custom trust list is used by only a few people. I personally am not using custom list because I trust most of the DT people and I want to see feedback from them by default.
Theymos is promoting/encouraging people to use custom trust list by the forum ads slot. Check the 60th number text in factoid slots.

[yahoo62278]

Now this makes sense. Got it now.
So until I get trust from some very big level it won't be visible enough.

Trust score may not increase when you get feedbacks from users who are not DT, but it is still good to receive positive feedbacks from those users. Users read your feedbacks(Most should anyways) and get a sense of how reliable you are to make trades with, hire, or trust period.

Another thing, when you leave feedback on others try to make sure to include a reference link so that the action or transaction has merit and cannot be viewed as a fake feedback. Hopefully others that leave you feedback do the same.

[LoyceV]

I think forum moderators can see how many poeple have custom trust setting, i assumption is that they should be very very few.

Trust is public, you can see it too:

https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz

I made it so that'll update every Saturday at 02:52 UTC. -> is "trusts", and -/> is "excludes". Only people with at least 1 post are included. If someone has never touched their trust list, then their trust in DefaultTrust is not shown.

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list:

Code:

theymos
allinvain
HostFat
teff
LZ
Elwar
satamusic
btchris
Bimmerhead
Stephen Gornick
Peter Todd
fabianhjr
midnightmagic
ColdHardMetal
Chuck
dishwara
chmod755
Jason
ryepdx
Luke-Jr
dooglus
Astro
Raize
keystroke
Nekrobios
phantomcircuit
Miner-TE
spacediver
GCInc.
Sahtor
defaced
RchGrav
Maged
SteveB
trilogy456
layer1gfx
Inaba
server
mithrandi
algaidaman
Grix
edd
Raoul Duke
luv2drnkbr
topynate
someguy123
Bit_Happy
tabsa
SgtSpike
romeorickl64
wariner
gmaxwell
gsan
Kluge
Josh
zapeta
Mikers
BookofNick
jspielberg
enmaku
MiningBuddy
wangxinxi
organofcorti
bitpop
twmz
justusranvier
rb1205
Peter Lambert
RyNinDaCleM
Dracov
Mousepotato
jwzguy
Soros Shorts
tonto
Carnth
TECSHARE
Caesium
IIOII
drrussellshane
Acejam
stellan0r
Chefnet
redcomet
emersonlogan62
tysat
desired_username
iCEBREAKER
Dacm4n
dserrano5
kokojie
random_cat
rupy
haploid23
Micon
ixne
Cluster2k
phantastisch
OgNasty
Jessi
RockDJ
2weiX
CanaryInTheMine
Oldminer
SebastianJu
Rudementry
Stemby
cc5alive
AndyRossy
str4wm4n
Bind
jamesg
whirlpool
-ck
Haembi
SyRenity
newguy05
hypersire
Xer0
bbit
xaxistech
Ente
Zodiac1233
R2Pleasent
themusicgod1
Schleicher
SLVR4ME
ullikume
Lord F(r)og
Ratman2050
gwillen
chiliftw
malevolent
2GOOD
zefir
Elokane
dego
yxt
EpicFail
qwk
the joint
Vrs
goozman96
CoinBoerse.com
Garr255
pankkake
bluetowel
oxi
hendo420
leevancleef
BTC-Joe
smoothie
preparation
koopa
GreekBitcoin
naypalm
ziomik
prodigits7
fydel
julz
BCwinning
jdebunt
X68N
manfred87
blizzen
forexmasterja
Korbman
paraipan
goxed
BitcoinEXpress
rafsoaken
Lincoln6Echo
mameise
dlasher
Northwave
jaebird
cocodapuf
loglow
John (John K.)
andy3
ercolinux
Unacceptable
Michail1
Olly_K
Anduck
mc_lovin
rihannafully
ssateneth
MsBitcoin
Immuzikation
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THCGroup
pekv2
FCTaiChi
fronti
taserz
epicrate
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juhakall
skilo
wallet.dat
Maidak
crzr
kano
dscotese
SgtMoth
ry0t
maxmint
dree12
imsaguy
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rdponticelli
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arij
Mushoz
DrG
enlightened
wknight
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canton
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misternoodle
ineededausername
camerali
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escialsped
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ocminer
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manic
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dpb
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nbtcminer
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mprep
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01BTC10
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af_newbie
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[Anduck]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

[OgNasty]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

That list also includes people who have Default Trust included on their trust lists.  It is actually a good sign and shows that thousands of people are augmenting DT with their own alterations as advised.  I'd disagree with your interpretation and say this is better than I'd thought.  I wonder what sort of growth is happening with users augmenting their lists?

[marlboroza]

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

DT should be removed.

This is one of the reasons why DT should be removed completely.

The problem is that DT exists.

Just remove DT

~

Can you exclude accounts who have DT in their trust network and make a list of accounts with only custom list? Just to see how many people have removed DT from the list.


How can I see someone's trust list without including them to my trust list?

[S_Therapist]

How can I see someone's trust list without including them to my trust list?

It's not possible. Don't know what can you get by digging here- https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz (I never tried)
I got a same kinda thread from 2015 and theymos has shared this link only. Here you go- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1175364.0

[Anduck]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

That list also includes people who have Default Trust included on their trust lists.  It is actually a good sign and shows that thousands of people are augmenting DT with their own alterations as advised.  I'd disagree with your interpretation and say this is better than I'd thought.  I wonder what sort of growth is happening with users augmenting their lists?

I have DT in my trust list, and I use custom trust list, and I am heavily against DT.

Fact is that a really really small portion of forum users have a custom trust list. Quite small amount of users know about the trust system in the first place, but even when that is so, 4000 users having customized their trust list means that users aware of the trust system are clearly not customizing their trust lists.

The heaviest reason to include DT in the customized list is that there's no real reason to remove it as it was there by default. Another reason is that people want to have some sort of overview about what the view is for most of the users.

People should use custom lists and they should be encouraged and incentivized to do so. There should not be a structure like DT as it skews the whole trust system. Of course people who get something out of it tend to not find any reasons to object it, that's largely human nature. It's exactly the same thing as can be seen in the politics, but maybe by acknowledging it we can be better than that?

DT list is an anomaly in the trust system/network. Such should not exist, because eventually it builds up to be like any other top-down hierarchy as the time passes.

I'm happy to see that the one (also being the only one) who can truly change this DT thing doesn't like how it works either.

I am against DT and I also have DT on my custom trust list. It appears that you don't get why it is so. Maybe I or others can help you out? Feel free to PM me.

[cryptohunter]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

That list also includes people who have Default Trust included on their trust lists.  It is actually a good sign and shows that thousands of people are augmenting DT with their own alterations as advised.  I'd disagree with your interpretation and say this is better than I'd thought.  I wonder what sort of growth is happening with users augmenting their lists?

I have DT in my trust list, and I use custom trust list, and I am heavily against DT.

Fact is that a really really small portion of forum users have a custom trust list. Quite small amount of users know about the trust system in the first place, but even when that is so, 4000 users having customized their trust list means that users aware of the trust system are clearly not customizing their trust lists.

The heaviest reason to include DT in the customized list is that there's no real reason to remove it as it was there by default. Another reason is that people want to have some sort of overview about what the view is for most of the users.

People should use custom lists and they should be encouraged and incentivized to do so. There should not be a structure like DT as it skews the whole trust system. Of course people who get something out of it tend to not find any reasons to object it, that's largely human nature. It's exactly the same thing as can be seen in the politics, but maybe by acknowledging it we can be better than that?

DT list is an anomaly in the trust system/network. Such should not exist, because eventually it builds up to be like any other top-down hierarchy as the time passes.

I'm happy to see that the one (also being the only one) who can truly change this DT thing doesn't like how it works either.

The problem with presenting such FACTS in meta is that you are sadly relating this information to

1. people who are already fully aware of this
2. People who are deriving power/advantage from the systems operating in this way.

The REAL members who are likely in their ANN threads supporting their projects or on the btc discussion boards likely do not know about meta. They will only find out about it when they get hacked or something.

DT and MERIT need either to be tightened up and not left open and completely subjective to the point of your like or dislike of LEMONS being responsible for you losing your ability to PAID2POST  or trade.  Or they need to be abolished.

Need strict clear criteria for both systems. Punishment/removal from position for not meeting that criteria.

Enforcing this criteria would not even be hard. Just produce the criteria and these system controllers will follow it or they will be booted out. No more voting your mates in to collude with you.  There is no colluding. There is a mandate. There is criteria set. Follow it or you are gone.

Why will they follow the mandate and criteria set? because they like the power. I have no issue with authority or people having power so long as that power is fairly applied to all members in a manner we all understand. Let them have some power. I mean they are likely to have been bullied and dominated in RL. So on the internets let them have some power for a change. I think everyone should sample different ends of the spectrum in all things.

You will then see red trust you won't have to read to see if they like LEMONS. You will know they have demonstrated behaviour that REALLY will mean they are likely to scam you. Of course if they were stealing LEMONS then that is something you need to watch out for.

[Anduck]

That list also includes people who have Default Trust included on their trust lists.

There's no data about that. I parsed the list.

https://anduck.net/files/bct_trustlists.txt shows some additional data, gathered from the https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz file.

[OgNasty]

I am against DT and I also have DT on my custom trust list.

Yes, you have become one of DT's biggest critics despite not having an understanding of why it exists, yet you still include it on your list.    That means you are a hypocrite & DT has value even to it's biggest critics.  I don't think you're making the point you're trying to make.

[LoyceV]

Can you exclude accounts who have DT in their trust network and make a list of accounts with only custom list? Just to see how many people have removed DT from the list.

I can't, the data dump doesn't show "DefaultTrust", only individual usernames.

How can I see someone's trust list without including them to my trust list?

See https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz, or for the uncompressed version from 3 days ago: https://pastebin.com/3CiX1T9p

It may be interesting to see the total number of entries: 22,605. That means just a few entries per user on average, which is far from enough to replace the DT-system.

People should use custom lists and they should be encouraged and incentivized to do so.

Encourage them: drop a link to Trust settings once in a while