Alternatives to Permabans for plagarism

[Veleor]

I agree that the forum will lose more if administration would handing out bans left and right, without a possibility for good posters being able to correct. I would vote for such option if it was in the poll:

Temporary signature ban in *debatable cases* for rangs from Full Member and above.

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[bigtimespaghetti]

Maybe it had been suggested upthread but a vouch system would be good. I know one guy in particular who I'd vouch for, but perhaps that is like earning merit too...

[hilariousetc]

their should be a statute of limitations agreed upon for plagiarism

Banning someone for a post made years ago would probably be quite harsh, especially if they've since changed their ways. In these sorts of cases I would much prefer a sig ban.

if you are motivated enough to go through the many years and thousands of posts on my legendary account

Not sure how to break this to you gently but you're not really a Legendary.

Is this cryptohunter?

Seems the votes are pretty much evenly split between all options minus the fee one.

Theymos PMd me and said permabans for plagiarism don't have to be set in stone as there are no hard rules and we can use our own initiative on whether to ban certain users or not but I think there needs to be some consistency across staff so it doesn't look like we're giving certain favours to people as it will just lead to people whinging and bugging staff members that x was unbanned by y and therefore so should they.

Theymos has already implemented facilities to sig ban people and personally I think this is something we should be doing for those cases of users where they deserve a second chance, so hopefully he can roll out that feature to Globals so we can give them in appropriate cases. Maybe the sigs can be 'earned' back automatically after x amount of time/merit/contributions or after manual staff review, but at least those who are here to genuinely contribute something can still do so regardless.

Two cases that would probably be deserving of unbans/signature bans are ChiBitCTy & Roboabhishek.

Appeal threads:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3432369.msg35819856#msg35819856
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5079217.msg48408455#msg48408455

I'm not sure I buy either of their excuses (though they are plausible) but I'd be willing to give them a second chance as they were both active and somewhat appreciated members and have vouches from other respected members, but I think some sort of sig ban would be appropriate here given they were both essentially doing it for payment. They both seem to care more about just getting their accounts back and even suggested they're fine with a sig ban so I think this is something we should consider for review:

For 8 months I’ve watched many opportunities pass by where I feel I could have added value to the forum. My post history is pretty telling of what kind of forum member I believe I mostly was.  My topics are either detailed posts to really try and add value here or for collectibles purposes. 

Hilarious and Theymos…I respect you guys and I fully understand where you’re coming from.  However, you’ve both stated you’d be willing to let a member back who you feel would contribute positively moving forward (likely with stipulations).  Besides my lapse in common sense one day..I’ve done nothing but try and contribute positively here.  Plenty of it being pre-signature days too.  So..put me to the test!! Fuck my signature, hell ban me from it for good.  Give me a chance and I will still be here, still contributing, whether now or a year from now. Easy promise I can make/keep.
 

I don't care about the signature as much as I care about my alias.
If it's possible, then I'll gladly accept it and obviously mistake as this one will never occur from my side ever again.

[Macadonian]

Money doesn't fuel posting here well that's how it should be. I think far too much emphasis is being put on signature campaigns here and the potential earnings. Do you really think banning signature rather than the account will do anything? Perma bans stop them from using their account and they probably just go and make another one. It would be the exact same if you were to ban them from using a signature but instead they get the impression that they can just continue posting their copy and paste bullshit. I think permabans should stay and send the right signals to those that are copy and pasting. If their intentions are to earn from campaigns then a permaban will prevent that from happening.

Paying to get your account back? No. I think as soon as you are permabanned that is it for you. You don't deserve to come back as permabans are only handed out on a few occasions. If you copy and paste then that's you out of the forum. I don't see any reason why theymos would want to allow copy and pastes the opportunity to get their account back when they have directly insulted him by not paying attention to the rules. Ok so we could argue that everyone deserves a second chance but that should be done via a yearly review of bans rather than allowing users to pay for their accounts back. The problem with allowing people to get their accounts back via a fine they might think that its worth copy and pasting just in case they don't get found and they can earn a little merit from it. If they get found out and banned they just pay for the account back but that post might of already got merit.

[manfredmann]

We are not perfect but I guess permbans if given the chance to lift it is to give him/her a fine for the violations being created. This way people will going to learn but still could be able to lift the ban in this forum. This way we could create a good community that instead of kicking them out we should care for them for we should consider them clients for they are also investing in cryptocurrency for sure. This forum has been enable me also to decide on to invest that is why we should care all users here in this forum.

[eternalgloom]

I'd personally leave it as it is now, keep the permaban.
Plagiarism is just so easy to avoid, in almost all cases it's a deliberate action of the user and should be met with the harshest punishment possible.

Now, I do understand that there might be some cases where the user didn't intend to plagiarize and merely forgot to post a source link.
Those cases are pretty easy to spot though, thus before issuing a permaban, mods should be absolutely certain that the user's intent was to plagiarize.

[suchmoon]

Is this cryptohunter?

Most likely.

Two cases that would probably be deserving of unbans/signature bans are ChiBitCTy & Roboabhishek.

Appeal threads:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3432369.msg35819856#msg35819856
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5079217.msg48408455#msg48408455

If we're doing this we should probably add the honeymoon guy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5056278.0

The excuse is about as credible at those other two and nobody found any other signs of copypasta yet.

I disagree with unbanning Roboabhishek BTW (having someone create posts for your sig campaign should be ban-worthy in its own right) but I'll admit that other reasonable users vouching for him is a fairly good argument that it's an uncharacteristic lapse in judgement and the person might be capable of learning from it. Let's just please not make this excuse a valid one going forward.

[cryptohunter]

I'd personally leave it as it is now, keep the permaban.
Plagiarism is just so easy to avoid, in almost all cases it's a deliberate action of the user and should be met with the harshest punishment possible.

Now, I do understand that there might be some cases where the user didn't intend to plagiarize and merely forgot to post a source link.
Those cases are pretty easy to spot though, thus before issuing a permaban, mods should be absolutely certain that the user's intent was to plagiarize.

Is what cryptohunter?? more like such moon that idiot is more likely to have been creating puppet accounts than me if you take time to investigate that imbecile.

The motive is always the important thing here. People who are saying there is no difference here between any copy and paste are fools that have already had their arguments torn to shreds but do not reply and run away and hide.

Let me give you a simple stupid analogy that any one even suchmoon and perhaps even the pharmacist or maybe even loyceV can follow without his tiny brain collapsing in public and running away crying or saying you will go on ignore

1. I come home my garden fence has been damaged and several panels are missing. So is my dog.
2. I report it to the police.

scenario 1

Police find it is some asshole using the planks he ripped off for himself to make wooden objects for which he is getting paid for and my dog has escaped and ran under a car:(

scenario 2.

Police say some guy ripped the planks off to lay on to the frozen lake beside your house to save your dear dog drowning since it escaped and fallen through a hole people had been fishing through. He has rescued the dog which police  bring back but the guy is in hospital in a bad way.


Do you want us to apply the same  punishment in both cases? let's punish them the same right...ripped my panels clean off the fence fuck the intention or result of the actions.

I would (especially as this poll is in meta ) request a public poll where people state their opinions and ground them with some reasonable case as to what the optimal action to achieve keeping net positive members will be.

There is no point counting the opinion of someone who does not clearly understand the problem if you want to reach an optimal result.

People should say their view and the justify it and make sure under scrutiny they understood what they were voting for.

Anyway the polls shows that the majority want other action that allows for financially motivated spammers removed because they are net negative and to retain net positive members even if they were lazy or made a mistake they can post just with no sigs.

I SAY REMOVE ALL SIGS FOR EVERYONE FOR EVER AND SEE WHO IS LEFT IS THE BEST IDEA.

I BET A LOT OF THESE TOP MERIT HOADERS , DT TRUST  ALL WITH THEIR HIGH PAID SIGS POSTING EVERYWHERE WILL BE GONE.

I CHALLENGED THEM TO REMOVE THEIR SIGS FOR A YEAR AND I WILL DO IT TO0. TO PROVE THEY ARE NOT JUST AS BAD AS THE NOOBS THEY DERIDE FOR TRYING TO MONETISE THIS BOARD. NONE WILL DO IT

PHARMACIST WOULD RATHER BOAST AS HIS BEST ACCOMPLISHMENT HERE ON THIS BOARD IS TO BE ADDED TO A TOP PAID SIG CAMPAIGN.

@suchmoon - you are a proven moron whom makes crazy statements about "most pre merit legends are scammers" and sticks to it. Disrespectful dumb ass noob.

Also part of a gang here trying to silence people via cowardly methods you scumbag. I just love crushing your mind in public and demonstrating you are a moron over and over until your mind collapses like a rotten pumpkin and you just sit there shouting ludicrous mad comments over and over.

suchmoon is such a fucking thick turd that he just attempted to use this copy and paste bullshit to get shut me down again after the red trust crap failed 2 days ago because i could demonstrate full abuse there. This is a tool they want to keep open for any mistakes they find.

I strongly suspect this cowardly jackal created a 1 day old  puppet account to report me for copy and paste and that i was claiming original source WHILST I WAS FIGHTING A REAL SCAM NOT HIDING HERE PLAYING WHACK AMOLE THINKING HE IS IMPORTANT AND TRYING TO SILENCE ANYONE WHO GOES AGAINST HIM. Sadly though that gang of dumb fucks are so retarded they can not even do that properly and fucked it up just adding power to MY ARGUMENT THAT YOU NEED TO SEE IF THE PERSON IS NET POSITIVE FIRST and what the copy and paste was about before trying to ban them.

How can you say someone is claiming the work as their own if the link to original source is listed in the same post 2nd link at the bottom? you dumb cunt suchmoron.

Even so that information was created by someone in anon coin to support my claim that dash was an instamined SCAM COIN THAT NEARLY PUSHED BITCOIN IN TO POSITION 2 AT ONE TIME and if we had not highlighted to the entire board through the largest war on the alt board ever that it was a scam and forced evan duffield to break down and offer an air drop THAT WAS AT ONE TIME WORTH BILLIONS  then it could have quite easily pushed btc into number 2 spot.

THIS gang of NO LEGENDS THAT HAVE ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING EVER HERE EVEN AFTER I CHALLENGED THEM TO PRODUCE THEIR FINEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS - guess what pharmacist lists as his best accomplishment here LOL HE JOINED A HIGH PAYING SIG CAMPAIGN  HAHAHAAH THIS DUMD FAILURE WANTS TO SEE ME BANNED THAT FUCKING RETARDED PATHETIC FOOL WHO SPAMS HIS SIG HERE FOR PENNIES AFTER BEING HERE YEARS???  you want to listen to the opinions of these fucking cowards and dishonest fools.

Get rid of this gang of jackals and scum. Corruption near the top is far more dangerous than some poor wretches at the bottom.... they can be dealt with quite easily.

TO SOLVE ALL MAJOR ISSUES REMOVE SIGS FOR EVERYONE. And break this gang into pieces and hurry up.

Don't even comment on my post unless you can refute with evidence what I say. The only people that want to comment without providing evidence for what they say and their opinions are either part of the gang or their dumb ass kissers hoping for some merit crumbs.

NOW BRING ME EVIDENCE WITH YOUR REBUTTAL OR FUCK OFF.

[bones261]

     I personally think permanently banning signatures from an account along with a temporary posting ban of 30 days should be implemented for plagiarism. By permanently banning the signature, you effectively make the account worthless for signature campaigns. This will combat the most common offenders of copy/paste spam: account farmers and sig campaign spammers. I also think a temporary ban of 30 days should be implemented as well. If an account farmer/sig spammer decides to move on immediately to post with their alts, if they get caught, then their alts can get permanently banned for ban evasion. I realize that linking alts together can be tricky; however, some of these copy/paste spammers make stupid mistake like using the same address to receive bounty payments.

[Veleor]

Theymos has already implemented facilities to sig ban people and personally I think this is something we should be doing for those cases of users where they deserve a second chance, so hopefully he can roll out that feature to Globals so we can give them in appropriate cases.

Theymos has implemented "temp sig ban" feature in 2017 year. Strangely that Global mods still can't do the same thing.

Hi,

Today for first time i have seen message like this in signature space of one Bitcointalk user:
"Banned from displaying signatures until August 25, 2017, 01:51:16 AM"
But not under his posts. This information was only in his profile informations (in the signature window)

How/why someone can get ban like this?

It's because of this:

That is very much not allowed. The threads are trashed, the poster is banned for 60 days, everyone who participated is banned for 3 days, and everyone who participated cannot display a signature for 30 days.

~ Banned from displaying signatures until August 25, 2017, 01:51:16 AM
after on date 25 august my signature will be reactivated.

I was partecipating to your campaign , but now I'm banned from displaying signatures until August 25, 2017 because I wrote on your ANN once per day. Had anyone else got the same ban?

[bigtimespaghetti]

Agree with a previous comment, ChiBitCty is a prime candidate for considering reinstating into the forum.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

PHARMACIST WOULD RATHER BOAST AS HIS BEST ACCOMPLISHMENT HERE ON THIS BOARD IS TO BE ADDED TO A TOP PAID SIG CAMPAIGN.

1)  You asked me for a list of my accomplishments on bitcointalk, which is the reason I mentioned being in the Chipmixer campaign.
2)  My point wasn't that I was in a high-paying campaign but one that is competitive, very selective, and doesn't employ shitposters.

I told you, I'm not bragging about anything.  All of those "accomplishments" I listed could be taken away from me in a heartbeat (DT status, being a merit source, being in Chipmixer), and I fully accept that.  

Other people thought I was worthy enough to have those things.  I didn't ask to be on DT or to be a merit source.  The only thing I asked for was a position in the Chipmixer campaign.  

I'm not boasting that I'm such a great bitcointalk member that I deserve those things, because that's not something I believe--those "accomplishments" are things I'm grateful for, because people have put their trust in me to do a good job in a sig campaign; to not be a power-tripper and abuse the trust system; to not use my merit source status for personal gain and to distribute merits properly; etc.  Those are things I have to do my best to live up to and although I can sometimes come off as arrogant or cocky, I'm not boasting.  

And FYI, I'm not looking to be a moderator (you made that assertion in one of your rants IIRC), and I clearly stated that in the thread where people voted for who'd be the best new mods (if any were ever chosen):

Also, I've said that I don't want to be a mod and I mean it.  Voting for me would be completely unnecessary.  Remember how Meta was back when actmyname and I were tagging shitposters?  If I were a mod and had some actual authority and autonomy, my moderated section would probably look like ground zero after a nuclear strike, and no doubt the nuke-ees would be starting endless threads and complaining about it.  It's not going to happen and I don't even want the job anyway.  

[cryptohunter]

PHARMACIST WOULD RATHER BOAST AS HIS BEST ACCOMPLISHMENT HERE ON THIS BOARD IS TO BE ADDED TO A TOP PAID SIG CAMPAIGN.

1)  You asked me for a list of my accomplishments on bitcointalk, which is the reason I mentioned being in the Chipmixer campaign.
2)  My point wasn't that I was in a high-paying campaign but one that is competitive, very selective, and doesn't employ shitposters.

I told you, I'm not bragging about anything.  All of those "accomplishments" I listed could be taken away from me in a heartbeat (DT status, being a merit source, being in Chipmixer), and I fully accept that.  

Other people thought I was worthy enough to have those things.  I didn't ask to be on DT or to be a merit source.  The only thing I asked for was a position in the Chipmixer campaign.  

I'm not boasting that I'm such a great bitcointalk member that I deserve those things, because that's not something I believe--those "accomplishments" are things I'm grateful for, because people have put their trust in me to do a good job in a sig campaign; to not be a power-tripper and abuse the trust system; to not use my merit source status for personal gain and to distribute merits properly; etc.  Those are things I have to do my best to live up to and although I can sometimes come off as arrogant or cocky, I'm not boasting.  

And FYI, I'm not looking to be a moderator (you made that assertion in one of your rants IIRC), and I clearly stated that in the thread where people voted for who'd be the best new mods (if any were ever chosen):

Also, I've said that I don't want to be a mod and I mean it.  Voting for me would be completely unnecessary.  Remember how Meta was back when actmyname and I were tagging shitposters?  If I were a mod and had some actual authority and autonomy, my moderated section would probably look like ground zero after a nuclear strike, and no doubt the nuke-ees would be starting endless threads and complaining about it.  It's not going to happen and I don't even want the job anyway.  

You are one to pretend to be nice and civil and humble and so nice. However, I have seen you bully noobs around with no mercy and I have destroyed you publicly in several arguments and debates demonstrating your mind is weak and vulnerable. I tried to leave you out of things but you sneak to other threads taking about me and colluding with the other gang members , meriting their nonsense and sniping now and then. You are afraid to really get involved because you know you are a liability to their agenda since you and loyce are observably weak of mind and collapse under even minor questioning.

Now don't try to prentend you were not part of this sock puppet reporting of me for plagiarism you cowardly little jackal.
You are a joke. Who would hand any authority to you? you brainless clown. You could even have a change of heart and try to do something really decent and good and still fuck it up because you are completely stupid. So of course you are powerless and a failure here and have accomplished nothing apart from trying to set me up to get banned and red trust you poor cretin spamming away for cents when every other legend is worth a fortune whilst every legend is worth a fortune now. How can you even lose of PIVX lol that was one of my free tips that created several millionaires from scraps they had to start.

Now take your bitterness and evil sneaky cowardly ass away from me because I will just crush you again and again and again WITH THE TRUTH ABOUT YOU AND YOUR REAL NATURE AND YOUR REAL ACHIEVEMENTS HERE. PROVEN WITH OBSERVERABLE FACTS.

Don't play this humble act with me anymore. You had your chance. Get back behind laundas skirt because that is all you have left. Get back to protecting him and wishing he were a mod again and a DT even though you tell me in the next breath you do not have the mental capacity to determine if the is a guilty of wrong doing. You worm.

Remove your high paid exclusive sig you broke bum and if you beg forgiveness I may let you sleep in my dogs kennel once a month.
Financially motivated posters are the cancer here right??? stop being part of that group prove you are better than this and a real enthusiast.

Remove you sig to take away my ammunition..... you won't will you because you like to milk the board like the noob desperados but you like to deride and pick on them. Make them feel like merit beggars whilst you have tons of this subjective nonsense.

Look at all the top merit holders in this gang of mental defective turds. All spamming the same sig and not one can produce anything they have achieved here of real note. All trying to push people around with red trust, and trying to get them banned. I mean their actions are so transparent and blatant it is shocking that nobody notices this crap.

REMOVE YOUR SIG PHARMACIST BEFORE I SEE YOU TELL ONE MORE PERSON OR LECTURE THEM ON FINANCIALLY MOTIVATED POSTING.

Same for loyce, malboroza, and all the other gang members. I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE WE CAN ALL POST WITH NO SIGS FOR 1 YEAR. LETS DO IT NET POSITIVE REAL ENTHUSIASTS.

[Lafu]

Another idea might be that every user at Bitcointalk gets a PM from the system or admin with the clue that copy and paste is not allowed.

And if an account is found that has copy and paste done, it will be banned!
For new accounts this PM could then be automatically sent by the system!

So nobody can say he did not know about it!

And the handling of copy and paste stuff is punished with Ban!
Possible ban handling for the first time 2 months break for the user and 2 times perma ban!

Or as it is right now , direct perma Ban , because through the PM it everyone knows !

It's just an idea . 

[suchmoon]

Don't even comment on my post unless you can refute with evidence what I say. The only people that want to comment without providing evidence for what they say and their opinions are either part of the gang or their dumb ass kissers hoping for some merit crumbs.

You forgot to attach the evidence that we're supposed to refute. You're also off topic. Your personal grievances go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5086297

[marlboroza]

I voted for:

Code:

Yes - Signature ban - whether permanent or temporary 	 (29%)
Yes - Signature ban indefinitely until they've earned x amount of merit

..although second option looks much better because users will have to earn their signature space again and they will be forced to write constructive posts if they want to monetize account again.

Same for loyce, malboroza, and all the other gang members. I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE WE CAN ALL POST WITH NO SIGS FOR 1 YEAR. LETS DO IT NET POSITIVE REAL ENTHUSIASTS.

You had your chance when I had removed my highly donating FJ signature in exchange to not payed signature because of dealing with ignorant people https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4598987.msg41512909#msg41512909

[cryptohunter]

I voted for:

Code:

Yes - Signature ban - whether permanent or temporary 	 (29%)
Yes - Signature ban indefinitely until they've earned x amount of merit

..although second option looks much better because users will have to earn their signature space again and they will be forced to write constructive posts if they want monetize account again.

Same for loyce, malboroza, and all the other gang members. I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE WE CAN ALL POST WITH NO SIGS FOR 1 YEAR. LETS DO IT NET POSITIVE REAL ENTHUSIASTS.

You had your chance when I had removed my highly donating FJ signature in exchange to not payed signature because of dealing with ignorant people https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4598987.msg41512909#msg41512909

Don't worry because I am giving you an opportunity to set a good example All over again.

I just told such moon

Gang members will remove theirs for 2 years and I will remove mine for 2 years.

He has agreed to remove it and the others will do so soon too.

Can't wait. I know you will be certainly up for it too. Because you are a real enthusiast and not a sig spammer.

[LoyceV]

Two cases that would probably be deserving of unbans/signature bans are ChiBitCTy & Roboabhishek.

Appeal threads:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3432369.msg35819856#msg35819856
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5079217.msg48408455#msg48408455

ChiBitCTy has been banned much longer than Roboabhishek. If he would have had a temporary ban, he would be unbanned by now. Roboabhishek would be the second best choice from what I've seen, although maybe less obvious of deserving it than ChiBitCTy. For reference: my opinion on ChiBitCTy.
Can we make those 2 a "test case", open for public scrutiny?

[cryptohunter]

Two cases that would probably be deserving of unbans/signature bans are ChiBitCTy & Roboabhishek.

Appeal threads:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3432369.msg35819856#msg35819856
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5079217.msg48408455#msg48408455

ChiBitCTy has been banned much longer than Roboabhishek. If he would have had a temporary ban, he would be unbanned by now. Roboabhishek would be the second best choice from what I've seen, although maybe less obvious of deserving it than ChiBitCTy.
Can we make those 2 a "test case", open for public scrutiny?

Can I ask why you need to be part of the decision process without

1. giving your reasoning behind which ever choices you voted for
2. demonstrate why someone like you who merits a report from an obvious sock puppet 1 day old with no posts to remove a legend that has posted nothing wrong should not be banned yourself at once. answer right now

I mean you are a div just look at some of the statments you have made on the merit thread when trying to respond to me

I would say such a person needs to demonstrate your opinion is even valid and not a pollution and distraction from reaching an optimal solution for getting rid of financially motivated spammers (like you with your high paid sig) and keeping net positive members here who make the odd mistake but overall pay into the system a lot more in terms of real value than idiots like you that just want to spam your sig and sound important.

I mean someone like you with no accomplishments here ever in the big scale of things trying on some twisted cowardly sock puppet report to remove a net positive legend that has had an illustrious posting history makes you actually WAY MORE NET NEGATIVE than a some new spammers who get less that your and tie up less board resources than your sig spamming dumb ass.

Get it now you are part of that gang that tried to silence me and I still see you begging on even though bones just told you you will need a lot more so keep looking you brainless cretin. Pull some more stats the same as I produced from some merits from your pals whilst demonstrating your merits are reduced to dust if you keep to the criteria i asked for in the first place which you refused to produce but still quote me in your op.

fucking net negative skid stain ALSO SUCH MOON JUST SAID YOU WILL REMOVE YOUR SIG FOR 2 YEARS COME AND PROVE HIM CORRECT. HE AGREED TO MY DEAL SO I ASSUME HE ALREADY CONSULTED YOU.

[Hhampuz]

Can we keep this thread on topic, please?