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Author Topic: Massive abuse in the Russian section.  (Read 4008 times)
TalkStar
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January 20, 2019, 07:53:04 AM
 #221

Its really an issue of concern that on other language section of bitcointalk some guys are abusing massively. Basically its not so easy to detect so fast but need instant solution too.

Maybe many of us have got the knowledge of understanding multiple languages but its not an easy task to learn most of the languages. Some guys are taking this gap as a opportunity to spread their illegal activities. Basically when we want to investigate one topic from italian section at that we need to translate it to our native language first.  After then we are capable of understanding whats going on there.

we have to keep in mind that everyday the community of bitcointalk increasing rapidly. Its going much difficult for our DT members to controling the forum day by day. I think we need to find a productive way to stop this kind of massive abuses on other language section.  

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January 20, 2019, 08:06:42 AM
 #222


I stand by my opinion that an unqualified DT1 member should be excluded and I don't see a viable DT1 candidate on the Russian board yet, but there are some good DT2 candidates if you cut trough the noise. Unfortunately some of them got caught up in this debacle simply by posting in the Russian DT discussion thread and/or appearing in a trust list of a shady person. I consider that unacceptable and I have started reincluding some of them at my own risk. Unfortunately my sole action means jack shit. Any DT1 members willing to contribute to the solution and not to the problem feel free to PM me or post here at any time and I'll try to answer any questions you may have on this subject.

Because of the actions of the gang in the composition of TMAN and Lauda from the list of DT2 was deleted local moderator Xal0lex (-1). He was attached to this list by theymos.

What kind of negotiations can we talk about in such a situation?

If these pieces of shit don't trust even to moderators - about what to talk to them and to agree?

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January 20, 2019, 08:10:33 AM
 #223

Because of the actions of the gang in the composition of TMAN and Lauda from the list of DT2 was deleted local moderator Xal0lex (-1). He was attached to this list by theymos.
None. Theymos made a mistake by including someone just because they are a staff member. If someone includes him back in, he'll just get more exclusions.

If these pieces of shit don't trust even to moderators - about what to talk to them and to agree?
Being a staff member =/= trustworthy.

I'm also unsure whether Xandry should be in that list as well.



Stuff like this also bothers me. Clearly they were tagged because they were Russian moderators IMO (as both him and Xandry received this positive trust); otherwise someone else would be chosen as there are better people in the staff group.

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January 20, 2019, 08:19:00 AM
 #224

Because of the actions of the gang in the composition of TMAN and Lauda from the list of DT2 was deleted local moderator Xal0lex (-1). He was attached to this list by theymos.

What kind of negotiations can we talk about in such a situation?

If these pieces of shit don't trust even to moderators - about what to talk to them and to agree?
I would like to add something of note: excluding someone doesn't mean that you don't trust them.

I could very well trust someone but think that they trust bad company: for example, if someone trusted some users but unbeknownst to them, those users were shady.

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January 20, 2019, 08:43:39 AM
 #225

I am excluding all the below and am slowly translating and tagging the obvious manipulators. (Staff are in that thread which is shocking)
~Alex_Sr
...

Alex_SR is now back on my trust-list as a gesture of goodwill to get this resolved, I do not want to exclude and alienate the whole Russian forum population, I just want this forum to be safe - Alex would you be willing to be the spokesman of the Russian section to get this resolved?

It's called a split personality? I. e. all according to your call should exclude Alex, and you now include Alex?

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January 20, 2019, 08:51:41 AM
 #226

Because of the actions of the gang in the composition of TMAN and Lauda from the list of DT2 was deleted local moderator Xal0lex (-1).
Xal0lex hasn't left a single feedback. What is the point of being on DT2 if you haven't left a single feedback? Also, just being a moderator doesn't entitle you to a DT position, as you can see by all the staff members who aren't on DT.

It's called a split personality? I. e. all according to your call should exclude Alex, and you now include Alex?
It's called making amends.

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January 20, 2019, 08:53:29 AM
 #227

Looks like Lauda crushes current  DT1 members thus the only option for us is to set up DT0 centred exclusively on Russian community. theymos should be there for sure. Going to disseminate this notion all around Russians threads.

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January 20, 2019, 10:40:43 AM
Merited by WhiteManWhite (1), o_e_l_e_o (1), taikuri13 (1)
 #228

Looks like Lauda crushes current  DT1 members thus the only option for us is to set up DT0 centred exclusively on Russian community. theymos should be there for sure. Going to disseminate this notion all around Russians threads.

There are more DTs than just Lauda. The best solution is to talk about it and attempt to come to a resolution.

Feedback doesn't show on the local boards currently - so eliminating the current members on DT and setting your own list would just result in previously tagged scammers and spammers not showing up with any feedback in the English section of the forum. Are you going to go through the thousands of valid feedback to tag all those under your own system ?
You won't have the benefit of valid warnings.

This needs some cool heads and good negotiators.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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January 20, 2019, 11:42:05 AM
Merited by xtraelv (1)
 #229

~
Feedback doesn't show on the local boards currently..

discussion on this matter has already started, #193 and all below

~
 eliminating the current members on DT and setting your own list would just result in previously tagged scammers and spammers not showing up with any feedback in the English section of the forum. Are you going to go through the thousands of valid feedback to tag all those under your own system ?
You won't have the benefit of valid warnings.

This needs some cool heads and good negotiators.

Well, then, I know u have, but why Lauda, TMAN, suchmoon and so on don't have DefaultTrust entry and adjusted their DT0 to their needs? Is that their heads are not cool?

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January 20, 2019, 12:13:44 PM
 #230


So why do you have scammer Admiral in trust list? Account who took loan and didn't return.

see above i answered

tell me why you added me to exclude list?
Also see above and read previous pages.

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January 20, 2019, 12:37:14 PM
Merited by TMAN (2)
 #231

~
Feedback doesn't show on the local boards currently..

discussion on this matter has already started, #193 and all below

~
 eliminating the current members on DT and setting your own list would just result in previously tagged scammers and spammers not showing up with any feedback in the English section of the forum. Are you going to go through the thousands of valid feedback to tag all those under your own system ?
You won't have the benefit of valid warnings.

This needs some cool heads and good negotiators.

Well, then, I know u have, but why Lauda, TMAN, suchmoon and so on don't have DefaultTrust entry and adjusted their DT0 to their needs? Is that their heads are not cool?

I have always found Suchmoon to be reasonable and approachable. When I spoke to Suchmoon recently indicated a very different view than before.


A simple way forward is to support the "good guys" and there are plenty of those in the Russian community. Support may be as simple as not excluding/red-trusting the good guys or countering existing exclusions/red trust. If you're not sure - and unless you speak passable Russian or have MANY HOURS to spend with multiple translation tools and talk to English-speaking Russians then you can't be sure - please simply take yourself out of the debate and don't act with exclusions or red trust. I have contacted numerous users over the last couple of days trying to explain this simple concept but it is unsurprisingly very difficult to do so when the debate is being fueled by emotions or perhaps even malice.



the community is indignant

I believe this is way too broad. If you have some basis for this I'd like to know. I have a different opinion after spending some time on the Russian board over the last few days. There is certainly some resentment about some of the recent actions targeting Russian members, which is why I believe it would make sense to reverse or counter-act them. That could get a reasonable conversation started.

We can't and won't get everyone to love us. They have their own Quicksellers. But we need to be reasonably consistent at the very least. Talking about DT inclusions/exclusions is not a crime over here and it should be a crime when it's done over there. Same with being misguided/misinformed/mistaken - there are many Russian users who'd be happy to learn but sadly we're paying attention to loudmouths for obvious reasons.

I don't know TMAN and Lauda well. I believe they tend to be a bit feisty but they have also tagged hundreds of scams. In this case I believe they have made a mistake - but that is my opinion.

Some of it I covered here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5099822.msg49327580#msg49327580

There is also a thread about it over here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5099774.msg49328469#msg49328469

I'd like to think this can be de-escalated and constructive discussion to take place with the view of a satisfactory resolution. I understand that some people have been insulted by what has occurred but I would like people to concentrate on a resolution rather than a confrontation.





We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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January 20, 2019, 12:43:31 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (1)
 #232

There are 2 threads to sort this without all the nonsense from the immature posters, one in rep and one here, this is not an us v them this is about protecting the forum members who don’t know better.


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January 20, 2019, 01:21:12 PM
Merited by TMAN (2), LFC_Bitcoin (1), LoyceV (1), xtraelv (1)
 #233

This is very encouraging stuff:

И мы нe дoлжны зaбывaть, чтo oт этoй cитyaции в выигpышe ceйчac тoлькo мoшeнники и cкaммepы. Кoтopыe c yлыбкoй нaблюдaют зa этими cпopaми.
Translation: This situation is only benefiting scammers and criminals, who are happy when we argue amongst ourselves.

Дaвaйтe тoгдa нaчнeм фopмиpoвaть cпиcoк c тeм, чтo бecпoкoит нac, чтoбы Aлeкcy былo o чeм гoвopить.

Я бы пpeдлoжил "oткaтить" вcю этy cитyaцию к cocтoянию 13 янвapя и нaчaть диaлoг зaнoвo.
Translation: Let's make a list of issues for Alex to start discussing. Let's roll back everything to 13th January and start over.

я coвeтyю вceм пpoявить знaк дoбpoй вoли и yбpaть cвoю oтвeткy.
Translation: I advise everyone to a sign of show goodwill and remove their ratings.

I would commend you all for approaching this as you have done. I think your ideas are a great first step - lets wipe the slate clean, remove all our ratings on each other, and have the Russian community come up with some ideas/issues they would like addressed to bring forward. Following this, we can hopefully have a constructive conversation - after all, we are all on the same side.

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January 20, 2019, 01:23:57 PM
 #234

This is very encouraging stuff:

И мы нe дoлжны зaбывaть, чтo oт этoй cитyaции в выигpышe ceйчac тoлькo мoшeнники и cкaммepы. Кoтopыe c yлыбкoй нaблюдaют зa этими cпopaми.
Translation: This situation is only benefiting scammers and criminals, who are happy when we argue amongst ourselves.

Дaвaйтe тoгдa нaчнeм фopмиpoвaть cпиcoк c тeм, чтo бecпoкoит нac, чтoбы Aлeкcy былo o чeм гoвopить.

Я бы пpeдлoжил "oткaтить" вcю этy cитyaцию к cocтoянию 13 янвapя и нaчaть диaлoг зaнoвo.
Translation: Let's make a list of issues for Alex to start discussing. Let's roll back everything to 13th January and start over.

я coвeтyю вceм пpoявить знaк дoбpoй вoли и yбpaть cвoю oтвeткy.
Translation: I advise everyone to a sign of show goodwill and remove their ratings.

I would commend you all for approaching this as you have done. I think your ideas are a great first step - lets wipe the slate clean, remove all our ratings on each other, and have the Russian community come up with some ideas/issues they would like addressed to bring forward. Following this, we can hopefully have a constructive conversation - after all, we are all on the same side.

You’re a breath of fresh air here on btctalk buddy. Must admit your influence is growing & I do really enjoy what you add.

Keep up the good work man.

There are 2 threads to sort this without all the nonsense from the immature posters, one in rep and one here, this is not an us v them this is about protecting the forum members who don’t know better.



Likewise TMAN, very mature & good negotiating.




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January 20, 2019, 01:27:37 PM
 #235

I’m encouraged by what I am reading.

Taikuri13 is also removed from my exclusion list. I don’t have time to go through the thread properly right now, but I feel 2 olive branches from me should be enough to kick this off properly

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January 20, 2019, 02:12:51 PM
 #236

I’m encouraged by what I am reading.

Taikuri13 is also removed from my exclusion list. I don’t have time to go through the thread properly right now, but I feel 2 olive branches from me should be enough to kick this off properly

It would work well towards further goodwill to remove some of the neg feedbacks where goodwill has been shown. I've had some very positive private conversations.

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January 20, 2019, 02:17:08 PM
 #237

I’m encouraged by what I am reading.

Taikuri13 is also removed from my exclusion list. I don’t have time to go through the thread properly right now, but I feel 2 olive branches from me should be enough to kick this off properly

It would work well towards further goodwill to remove some of the neg feedbacks where goodwill has been shown. I've had some very positive private conversations.

Fair point. Removed from taikuri, the tags against the 2 lunatics are staying for now though.

So I have been more than fair here, let’s see some action from these guys, removing untrusted feedback from me isn’t really action

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fxpc
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January 20, 2019, 03:57:01 PM
Last edit: January 20, 2019, 04:54:27 PM by fxpc
 #238

I’m encouraged by what I am reading.

Taikuri13 is also removed from my exclusion list. I don’t have time to go through the thread properly right now, but I feel 2 olive branches from me should be enough to kick this off properly

It would work well towards further goodwill to remove some of the neg feedbacks where goodwill has been shown. I've had some very positive private conversations.

Fair point. Removed from taikuri, the tags against the 2 lunatics are staying for now though.

So I have been more than fair here, let’s see some action from these guys, removing untrusted feedback from me isn’t really action

I think they also expect really action from some DT members. I don't know what kind of action. I always help forum but the whole last year has been unfairly accused by DT member. Actmyname recently removed neg feedback from me. You call removing feedback "isn't really action". I'm for fair play. And you? In your opinion, who and how should compensate me this incident?














You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.
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January 20, 2019, 05:16:51 PM
Last edit: January 20, 2019, 05:33:03 PM by xenon131
 #239


I think they also expect really action from some DT members.
....

We took our first steps. From the side of TMAN we would expect him admitted that like himself we have all rights to

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 think/talk/strategize about how trust lists affect DT1 selection....
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January 20, 2019, 06:18:36 PM
 #240

We took our first steps

You still have users in your trust list that seem to be there just to spite Lauda and/or TMAN. For example cryptohunter. I can't fathom why anyone would trust the forum clown's judgement, and I suspect that you're not really familiar with that user.


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