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Poll
Question: Do you think we need a guideline for DT members from theymos?
Yes - 24 (53.3%)
No - 21 (46.7%)
Total Voters: 45

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Author Topic: Do you think we need a guideline for DT members from theymos?  (Read 1029 times)
TECSHARE
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January 21, 2019, 02:35:47 PM
 #21

Posting should be self-moderated. If you treat the forum as a good place for social interaction and information exchange, then the trust system shouldn't be relevant for you. If you are a low ability signature campaign spammers, or a scammer, then of course it will affect you. The best thing to do is to look into yourself, and try to work out how to strengthen your weaknesses. The forum can be a great resource for self-improvement.

The problem is there are a lot of other cases where trust effects users other than just shit posting sig campaigners. Bitcoin is after all is (or is supposed to be) a method of exchange. This community will ALWAYS have a core of traders by its nature. What some users here call "pajeet" traders (an annoying and kinda racist stereotype IMO) are really just people trying to build a trust network from the bottom up with smaller trades. The problem is a lot of these forum cops are in nice cushy industrialized nations judging people who survive on 20% of the income they do, for doing smaller trades.

From a forum cop perspective it is just a hassle and an inconvenience to deal with, and I agree. Perhaps instead of beheading nickle and dime traders all day, and then screaming from the mountain tops about the bear they killed with their bare hands, maybe find something better to do with the time.

Unless the trust system has rules set around it restricting negatives to trade, where a loss of some kind can be documented, that is in violation of the agreement between the users, or is in violation of the law it will become meaningless. Everything else should not be anyone's business really, and certainly should not be grounds for a negative rating. Ratings do matter, because this is a forum centered around a method of exchange. The question is will the trust system be a gauge of who jerks each other off around here or who is able to be trusted in trade?

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January 21, 2019, 02:50:26 PM
 #22

The community can't be trusted.Sounds like the community is your enemy.


No - I love the community, but I hate those who try to destroy it because of their limitations or greed.

Thats why you look away of known scammers and allow false tagging.Seems plausible



I agree the DT members over exceeded their actions acting like babysitters making taking members will to decide themself all in the name of protection.
I even saw 2 people being red tagged for making a deal both agreed on just because it was a paypal exchange deal.
I mean why are you punks to decide for me if i'm allowed to make with somebody an exchange or not ?Its none of your business what kind of risk i take.

You are acting worse than any plan business.
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January 21, 2019, 02:57:28 PM
 #23

I even saw 2 people being red tagged for making a deal both agreed on just because it was a paypal exchange deal.
I mean why are you punks to decide for me if i'm allowed to make with somebody an exchange or not ?Its none of your business what kind of risk i take.

You are acting worse than any plan business.
Who are these users? If it's based purely on the method of transaction, then that doesn't seem like it deserves a tag to me.

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January 21, 2019, 02:57:49 PM
Last edit: January 21, 2019, 03:10:12 PM by cryptohunter
 #24

The community can't be trusted.Sounds like the community is your enemy.


No - I love the community, but I hate those who try to destroy it because of their limitations or greed.

Thats why you look away of known scammers and allow false tagging.Seems plausible



I agree the DT members over exceeded their actions acting like babysitters making taking members will to decide themself all in the name of protection.
I even saw 2 people being red tagged for making a deal both agreed on just because it was a paypal exchange deal.
I mean why are you punks to decide for me if i'm allowed to make with somebody an exchange or not ?Its none of your business what kind of risk i take.

You are acting worse than any plan business.

Jetcash is a proven liar here or at best pure double standards that are disgraceful.  Why?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1702409.msg17808231#msg17808231

If he really hates shit posting greedy sig spammers then why on DT does he support a PROVEN sock puppet racist trolling sig spammer the pharmacist aka huge black woman - I mean read the greed of that individual. He got busted complaining he  wanted more money from his sig on his second account that is just a trolling racist sig spammer for extra btc dust.

So why is he supporting him on DT?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview

This is proven FACT - observable by any person here.

His obvious double standards are there to clearly observe for all.

These DT members are clearly and observably acting in untrustworthy ways. Double standards where it suits them are the thin end of this wedge.

This is justs presentation of FACTS and observable events. They blast out red trust for anything that suits them including daring to speak out about their PROVEN lying and trust abuse.  

The entire thing is a joke. Let's face it though most are quite obviously low functioning. Try to have a debate with any of them bar perhaps 1 or 2 and you soon realise these are either complete imbeciles or worse.

I suggest this poll is made transparent by starting again and people have to post which way they vote and why.

You will soon see it is the system controllers themselves voting for maintaining their position of being able to red trust for their own personal reason and not for the good of the board at all.

Merit is the main issue here it needs to have criteria just like the trust system and earned merit should be reset to zero or some filter that cuts out the cycled merit to a sensible % - decoupled from rank after snr

A transparent poll is required here. No point asking people in power if they should have rules as how to wield it. The very notion is ludicrous.

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January 21, 2019, 03:30:46 PM
 #25

Not bad idea but I don't think theymos will do it. There are few post from old DT and some others about guidelines. But it's not officially approved. If any guidelines by theymos means its official guidelines. It would be better for new DT. But problem is peopels even don't bother to follow forum rules so we can't expect that peopels will follow the guidelines. And argument will never end even there is guidelines. People's never bother about DT system before get tag. After getting tag they start war with DT system. If any DT make mistake it should bring front before tag you. If I have made mistake then make sound now but after get tag making sound which is equal to war with DT. I don't think it will never end ....

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January 21, 2019, 03:39:57 PM
 #26

HA HA funny how the poll went from 9:1 we need a guideline after the whole night now so quickly to 9:10 .
Would love to see the names who voted so quickly at the same time.


To the honest DT members now you see the gang at its work trying to protect the sick status quo
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January 21, 2019, 03:47:26 PM
 #27

Not bad idea but I don't think theymos will do it. There are few post from old DT and some others about guidelines. But it's not officially approved. If any guidelines by theymos means its official guidelines. It would be better for new DT. But problem is peopels even don't bother to follow forum rules so we can't expect that peopels will follow the guidelines. And argument will never end even there is guidelines. People's never bother about DT system before get tag. After getting tag they start war with DT system. If any DT make mistake it should bring front before tag you. If I have made mistake then make sound now but after get tag making sound which is equal to war with DT. I don't think it will never end ....

They will follow them or they will get blacklisted from dt and merit source

We need people in positions of trust that are squeaky clean and no prior evidence of scams, lying, greed, double standards.... they should be blacklisted by default.

Imagine known convicted felons applying for police positions and getting it. Then telling others they don't want any rules as to how they act.

LOL

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January 21, 2019, 04:25:21 PM
 #28

HA HA funny how the poll went from 9:1 we need a guideline after the whole night now so quickly to 9:10 .
Would love to see the names who voted so quickly at the same time.


To the honest DT members now you see the gang at its work trying to protect the sick status quo
I'm still waiting for your reply to my question:

I even saw 2 people being red tagged for making a deal both agreed on just because it was a paypal exchange deal.
I mean why are you punks to decide for me if i'm allowed to make with somebody an exchange or not ?Its none of your business what kind of risk i take.

You are acting worse than any plan business.
Who are these users? If it's based purely on the method of transaction, then that doesn't seem like it deserves a tag to me.

If you identify these users then I would be glad to counter the rating. I just hope that you're not making false statements.

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January 21, 2019, 04:28:12 PM
 #29

HA HA funny how the poll went from 9:1 we need a guideline after the whole night now so quickly to 9:10 .
Would love to see the names who voted so quickly at the same time.


To the honest DT members now you see the gang at its work trying to protect the sick status quo

hence why transparent polls are required. You know it is the corrupt scum on DT that are voting they should have no limits imposed on their free reign to red trust for any reason they like.

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January 21, 2019, 04:42:09 PM
 #30

hence why transparent polls are required. You know it is the corrupt scum on DT that are voting they should have no limits imposed on their free reign to red trust for any reason they like.
The kicker is the "from theymos" part. Not the "guideline" bit. I'll leave you to think about why that is.

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January 22, 2019, 02:34:37 AM
 #31

Not bad idea but I don't think theymos will do it. There are few post from old DT and some others about guidelines. But it's not officially approved. If any guidelines by theymos means its official guidelines. It would be better for new DT. But problem is peopels even don't bother to follow forum rules so we can't expect that peopels will follow the guidelines. And argument will never end even there is guidelines. People's never bother about DT system before get tag. After getting tag they start war with DT system. If any DT make mistake it should bring front before tag you. If I have made mistake then make sound now but after get tag making sound which is equal to war with DT. I don't think it will never end ....
Why do you think people of this forum will not follow rules & regulations? If we get an exact guideline from of theymos than we may deserve much rules followers here. I think theymos should discuss about this too urgently.

If anyone just investigate the Meta section only he/she will find multiple thread which are nothing but tag related argumental gossip. If this situation continue, i wish in future it will be difficult to find productive posts. Just look at those threads conversations.

I wish very soon our DTs have to take sleep killer Smiley medicine to make tons of reply to those taging related threads whole night. There can be the chances of Insomnia Sad too

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January 22, 2019, 04:05:14 AM
Last edit: January 22, 2019, 04:25:01 AM by JusticeForYou
Merited by TECSHARE (1)
 #32

Why do you think people of this forum will not follow rules & regulations?
Some, DT think its because last time theymos applied a forum update about the merit system there were large number of appels by demoted accounts and same will happen again if forum applies some set of rules but I personally think merit requirements is totally different from trust as if a person does not gets merits he can still handle his account in normal way but when it comes to trust on the account the view totally changes and people start abusing the DT.

But if a proper set of rules are applied it would just put down the number of trust abuse threads or atleast someone could just point them to the official rules and why they were red-tagged. So there is not further argument left and the thread is locked.
On the other hand now both the parties have different definition to the abuse and the discussion just continues to an infinite extent.

 
There can be the chances of Insomnia Sad too
Not just insomnia it could cause too many more mental health problems.


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January 22, 2019, 08:45:41 AM
 #33

For a while now, theymos has been excluding users from his trust list. I kinda like that approach: he doesn't go full Admin on them, but uses his vote like any other user would do.

Theymos' trust list (last Saturday):

...

I also like this approach.  Having it public allows users to see his trust settings so those looking to him for guidance still have a place to find it.  I formatted your post for trust settings and moved those who he has distrusted to the bottom, so users can easily assess and assimilate users they want to add into their own lists.

theymos' trust list (last Saturday):

HostFat
dooglus
Raize
Meni Rosenfeld
Maged
Raoul Duke
gmaxwell
OgNasty
zvs
-ck
malevolent
John (John K.)
Tomatocage
SaltySpitoon
ineededausername
DeaDTerra
BadBear
Blazr
vgo
BCB
Dabs
Benson Samuel
shiftybugger
Cyrus
ibminer
Wardrick
dwdoc
Adriano
Taras
EFS
dbshck
hilariousandco
MadZ
shorena
mitzie
franckuestein
sapta
OmegaStarScream
xandry
rickbig41
Barcode_
Anon11073
Halab
Xal0lex
chimk
~actmyname
~CanaryInTheMine
~Spodermen
~LYCAN
~Jaaawsh
~artw1982
~Boelens
~Rub3n
~TMAN
~TomUnderSea
~TheNewAnon135246
~blackarrow
~MarkAz
~nachius
~marcotheminer
~nubbins
~FullLife
~Matthew N. Wright
~TradeFortress 🏕
~uhnonamiss
~El Cabron
~Xian01
~lophie
~johnny5

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January 23, 2019, 07:21:05 AM
Merited by TalkStar (1)
 #34

Having an official guidelines from theymos will be great but until then that doesn't mean we shouldn't make use of the trust system. We already have general accepted offends that are worth leaving negative feedback and positive feedbacks by DT and others. How about we stick to what we already have (which is working fine)  and when theymos finial decide to create those guidelines we adjust to them and change some of our feedbacks to neutral or maybe delete those that aren't a offends by his guidelines.

I did a infograph on possible reasons to leave or not leave a negative /postive feedback. Go check it out and leave your feedbacks via reply

Reason for this thread
Additionally, it may be interesting to see all four combinations for trust feedback:
-   Use positive feed back for.
-   Don’t use positive feed back for.
-   Use negative feed back for.
-   Don’t use negative feed back for (OP).



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January 23, 2019, 09:46:04 PM
Merited by actmyname (1)
 #35

Having an official guidelines from theymos will be great but until then that doesn't mean we shouldn't make use of the trust system. We already have general accepted offends that are worth leaving negative feedback and positive feedbacks by DT and others. How about we stick to what we already have (which is working fine)  and when theymos finial decide to create those guidelines we adjust to them and change some of our feedbacks to neutral or maybe delete those that aren't a offends by his guidelines.

I did a infograph on possible reasons to leave or not leave a negative /postive feedback. Go check it out and leave your feedbacks via reply

I think theymos purposely doesn't give official guidelines because he wants it to be a more community oriented decision.  If he was willing to give official guidelines, the old DT system would have worked fine.  I don't believe everyone working off the same list of rules is the goal.

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January 24, 2019, 01:14:43 AM
 #36

Having an official guidelines from theymos will be great but until then that doesn't mean we shouldn't make use of the trust system. We already have general accepted offends that are worth leaving negative feedback and positive feedbacks by DT and others. How about we stick to what we already have (which is working fine)  and when theymos finial decide to create those guidelines we adjust to them and change some of our feedbacks to neutral or maybe delete those that aren't a offends by his guidelines.

I did a infograph on possible reasons to leave or not leave a negative /postive feedback. Go check it out and leave your feedbacks via reply

I think theymos purposely doesn't give official guidelines because he wants it to be a more community oriented decision.  If he was willing to give official guidelines, the old DT system would have worked fine.  I don't believe everyone working off the same list of rules is the goal.

It isn't, but it should be. He was warned about all this when the trust system began but he ignored it in favor of more additions to the system further obfuscating the symptoms but not addressing the cause. I know he views himself as some kind of Anarcho-capitalist... but this is childish. You can't run a place like this, this big without some BASIC rules like the rest of the forum has.

I know he doesn't have the time or care to enforce every little thing, and nor should he and his staff have to. However since the beginning the trust system has had nothing but continual high level conflict resulting from it. Honestly I am not sure if he really wants decentralization or just the image of it based on the series of events revolving around the trust.

A standard of evidence, a violation of a contractual agreement, or a law being violated, should be the determining factors for judging a negative rating valid. I don't think we can rightly expect the staff to constantly be the ones to enforce this, but at the same time unless this rule is top down universal, none of these issues will ever be fixed. This is not just a logistical conflict, it is an ideological one. We all want more decentralization, but the reality is this is an inherently centralized place, and as a result nearly all of the authority originates from one place, Theymos.

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January 24, 2019, 03:39:09 AM
 #37


I think theymos purposely doesn't give official guidelines because he wants it to be a more community oriented decision. I don't believe everyone working off the same list of rules is the goal.

Everyone do not have to work from the sane list but at least there should be a guide for leaving trust feedbacks by the community.  When I picked interest I thought leaving a negative feedback for ban evasion was correct but after I asked suchmoon he corrected me, asking me not to tag users for such but instead report them to moderator. I was mislead my other users feedbacks and I'm sure others are too.

On the board where this infograhic was posted there's currently an argument on leaving negative feedback for accepting or giving BTT account  as collateral. This type of issue who had been avoided if we have guidelines users can turn to.

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bill gator
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January 24, 2019, 02:09:49 PM
 #38

All the posts are one sided.

It's a "yes" or "no" question. The only way you answer that without being one-sided is if you avoid answering it at all; "maybe".

If we're going to have theymos police DT or create the rules for being part of it then why not just allow theymos to pick DT entirely and centralize the system further? Theymos is providing guidelines by providing a system for us to work with and then explaining how it's intended to work. It's really shocking to me that half of us believe theymos should take more personal control over DT, unless I understand the question incorrectly.
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January 24, 2019, 10:55:53 PM
Last edit: January 25, 2019, 04:03:46 AM by TECSHARE
 #39

All the posts are one sided.

It's a "yes" or "no" question. The only way you answer that without being one-sided is if you avoid answering it at all; "maybe".

If we're going to have theymos police DT or create the rules for being part of it then why not just allow theymos to pick DT entirely and centralize the system further? Theymos is providing guidelines by providing a system for us to work with and then explaining how it's intended to work. It's really shocking to me that half of us believe theymos should take more personal control over DT, unless I understand the question incorrectly.

Just putting a system in place is not enough because the system is able to be abused. I don't expect or even want Theymos to be the arbiter of everything around here, and he has made it pretty clear he doesn't want that either. That doesn't mean he can't simply set up a standard protocol for using the rating system that he expects the users to follow, such as requiring a standard of evidence for negative ratings.

This doesn't mean Theymos needs to be involved in every dispute, it just means it solves a large amount of disputes before they even happen and also gives the trust system a boost in actual credibility by increasing its accuracy by reducing noise. We all want more decentralization, but the reality is this forum is very centralized, bringing us full circle back to Theymos.

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January 25, 2019, 02:10:20 AM
 #40

All the posts are one sided.

It's a "yes" or "no" question. The only way you answer that without being one-sided is if you avoid answering it at all; "maybe".

If we're going to have theymos police DT or create the rules for being part of it then why not just allow theymos to pick DT entirely and centralize the system further? Theymos is providing guidelines by providing a system for us to work with and then explaining how it's intended to work. It's really shocking to me that half of us believe theymos should take more personal control over DT, unless I understand the question incorrectly.

Just putting a system in place is not enough because the system is able to be abused. I don't expect or even want Theymos to be the arbiter of everything around here, and he has made it pretty clear he doesn't want that either. That doesn't mean he can't simply set up a standard protocol for using the rating system that he expects the users to follow, such as requiring a standard of evidence for negative ratings.

This doesn't mean Theymos needs to be involved in every dispute, it just means it solves a large amount of disputes before they even happen and also give the trust system a boost in actual credibility by increasing its accuracy by reducing noise. We all want more decentralization, but the reality is this forum is very centralized, bringing us full circle back to Theymos.

It’s very clearly being manipulated by a small group of users which makes it worse than the previous system. This was likely expected and theymos already reserved the right to blacklist people. I urge people to use their best judgement with their trust network and don’t be intimidated by this group of users playing games with the trust system. Have faith that this will be sorted out by the community eventually. I mean, DT has confirmed extortionists, doxxers, and scammers on it right now. I don’t think that will last forever. It’s embarassing.

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