[BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012

[sorryforthat]

Where can I get the CPU Miner?

[1714866514]

1714866514

[1714866514]

1714866514

[1714866514]

1714866514

[1714866514]

1714866514

[surfer43]

Where can I get the CPU Miner?

https://github.com/LucasJones/cpuminer-multi

[33zer0w0lf]

alright guys I got an opensource BCN POOL up
http://bcn.extremepool.org

you can use simpleminer or cpuminer  (minerd)

I would recommend getting the newly optimized cpuminer

AWESOME! bye bye Minergate!

there are some miner fixes I have to do, the block reward is not reporting right yet, at least I don't think.  but everything else should be good.

You should start a new thread to announce this.

I will as soon as I verify block reward

[poochpocket]

alright guys I got an opensource BCN POOL up
http://bcn.extremepool.org

you can use simpleminer or cpuminer  (minerd)

I would recommend getting the newly optimized cpuminer

AWESOME! bye bye Minergate!

there are some miner fixes I have to do, the block reward is not reporting right yet, at least I don't think.  but everything else should be good.

You should start a new thread to announce this.

I will as soon as I verify block reward

How do I define the # of threads in simpleminer.exe? "--threads 8" doesn't work

[sgk]

alright guys I got an opensource BCN POOL up
http://bcn.extremepool.org

you can use simpleminer or cpuminer  (minerd)

I would recommend getting the newly optimized cpuminer

AWESOME! bye bye Minergate!

there are some miner fixes I have to do, the block reward is not reporting right yet, at least I don't think.  but everything else should be good.

You should start a new thread to announce this.

I will as soon as I verify block reward

Awesome! What should be the command line for minerd? By default cpuminer runs on scrypt. How do I run it on cryptonote algo?

[33zer0w0lf]

alright guys I got an opensource BCN POOL up
http://bcn.extremepool.org

you can use simpleminer or cpuminer  (minerd)

I would recommend getting the newly optimized cpuminer

AWESOME! bye bye Minergate!

there are some miner fixes I have to do, the block reward is not reporting right yet, at least I don't think.  but everything else should be good.

You should start a new thread to announce this.

I will as soon as I verify block reward

Awesome! What should be the command line for minerd? By default cpuminer runs on scrypt. How do I run it on cryptonote algo?

Usage: minerd [OPTIONS]
Options:
  -a, --algo=ALGO       specify the algorithm to use
                          scrypt       scrypt(1024, 1, 1) (default)
                          sha256d      SHA-256d
                          keccak       Keccak
                          quark        Quark
                          heavy        Heavy
                          skein        Skein
                          shavite3     Shavite3
                          blake        Blake
                          x11          X11
                          cryptonight  CryptoNight
  -o, --url=URL         URL of mining server
  -O, --userpass=U:P    username:password pair for mining server
  -u, --user=USERNAME   username for mining server
  -p, --pass=PASSWORD   password for mining server
      --cert=FILE       certificate for mining server using SSL
  -x, --proxy=[PROTOCOL://]HOST[:PORT]  connect through a proxy
  -t, --threads=N       number of miner threads (default: number of processors)
  -r, --retries=N       number of times to retry if a network call fails
                          (default: retry indefinitely)
  -R, --retry-pause=N   time to pause between retries, in seconds (default: 30)
  -T, --timeout=N       timeout for long polling, in seconds (default: none)
  -s, --scantime=N      upper bound on time spent scanning current work when
                          long polling is unavailable, in seconds (default: 5)
      --no-longpoll     disable X-Long-Polling support
      --no-stratum      disable X-Stratum support
      --no-redirect     ignore requests to change the URL of the mining server
  -q, --quiet           disable per-thread hashmeter output
  -D, --debug           enable debug output
  -P, --protocol-dump   verbose dump of protocol-level activities
  -S, --syslog          use system log for output messages
  -B, --background      run the miner in the background
      --benchmark       run in offline benchmark mode
  -c, --config=FILE     load a JSON-format configuration file
  -V, --version         display version information and exit
  -h, --help            display this help text and exit

[33zer0w0lf]

./minerd  -a cryptonight -o http://bcn.extremepool.org:5555 -u <address> -p x -t <# of threads>

[drawingthesun]

How many coins are in existence so far?

This seemed to announced just a couple of months ago but already something like 144,000,000,000 coins have been mined?

[gaba]

How many coins are in existence so far?

This seemed to announced just a couple of months ago but already something like 144,000,000,000 coins have been mined?

Yes, that is why CryptoNote supporter switched to Monero I suppose.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

[Rias]

And after Monero was supposedly instamined they switched to Quazarcoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.0

And the story goes on and on and on, just like with hundreds of forks.

This is not an official announcement, the coin existed prior to March when DStrange started this topic. The coins were mined in almost already 2 years.

[gaba]

And after Monero was supposedly instamined they switched to Quazarcoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.0

And the story goes on and on and on, just like with hundreds of forks.

This is not an official announcement, the coin existed prior to March when DStrange started this topic. The coins were mined in almost already 2 years.

Yes, but the date don't match.


CryptoNote White paper is puplished on October 17, 2013.
https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

[DStrange]

alright guys I got an opensource BCN POOL up
http://bcn.extremepool.org

you can use simpleminer or cpuminer  (minerd)

I would recommend getting the newly optimized cpuminer

AWESOME! bye bye Minergate!

there are some miner fixes I have to do, the block reward is not reporting right yet, at least I don't think.  but everything else should be good.

PM me your BCN address we will reward you with 6M BCN for the pool development

[Rias]

I'm really surprised to not see this technology more widely discussed. For all the hype people give the currently-vapor zerocash stuff, I think the privacy design in Bytecoin strikes a better complexity/privacy/security tradeoff.   In general, I think introducing new currencies is unfortunate— why break up the adoption and lose network effect just to get some extra transaction powers? But at least as far as the privacy technology goes the stuff in Bytecoin appears to be top notch and perhaps most importantly it already exists and works.

Thank you for your attention to the coin. Bytecoin really exists and works, so the anonymous cryptocurrency is already here. The ideas behind Bytecoin and CryptoNote are somewhat difficult to implement in Bitcoin as far as I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's hardly any chance we could see ring signatures or one-time addresses in Bitcoin as nobody wants to fix the running locomotive.

Sadly the Bitcoin and bitcoin-clone mining ecosystem has really made people stupid on this front. I don't know if I should laugh or cry when I see people pissing away their earnings at 5% fee PPS pools (which may well be ripping them off beyond the advertised level) then turning around and gambling their earnings at negative expectation gambling sites.

Some altcoin goes through some substantial (and probably ill-advised) effort to be 'cpu-only' for equality and decentralization and even before the ASICS appear the users are just falling all over each other to hand away their control and income to a third party, even going to the point of not participating in a technologically very interesting coin if there doesn't exist some pool to take their money... crazy.

Unfortunately, I think the majority of the cryptocurrency enthusiasts are just obsessed with the mining profit at no extra effort. That would explain why so few people are into the hardcore technology (apart from it being complicated for sure). This disproportion should be very high for Bitcoin for what I see; a lot of ecosystem projects with a very small core team.

However, there is a point behind it. After all, consumer adoption beats the technology. Top tech is not what guarantees the success, and I'm pretty sure this correlates with my point above.

What do you personally think about CPU-mining as an idea?

[Rias]

CryptoNote White paper is puplished on October 17, 2013.
https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

Yeah, CryptoNote "v2". I wonder if there was "v1" at some point.

[gaba]

CryptoNote White paper is puplished on October 17, 2013.
https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

Yeah, CryptoNote "v2". I wonder if there was "v1" at some point.

Maybe is hidden somewhere in deep web for last two years just like Bytecoin 

[gmaxwell]

Thank you for your attention to the coin. Bytecoin really exists and works, so the anonymous cryptocurrency is already here. The ideas behind Bytecoin and CryptoNote are somewhat difficult to implement in Bitcoin as far as I understand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's hardly any chance we could see ring signatures or one-time addresses in Bitcoin as nobody wants to fix the running locomotive.

One time addresses are an almost certantly, people have implementations (search "stealth address"), the ideas just need to mature and get standardized.  After trying them out in Bytecoin I can say that they work more nicely than I expected.

The ring signature is a little trickier:  The cryptography itself is simple (I'll probably add a version using SECP256k1 to Sipa's libsecp256k1 once he figures out how he wants to handle hash functions for determinstic signing and schnorr signatures), but the overall implementation requires an additional spent coin set which is another utxo like data structure— this also isn't so bad, but its completely incompatible with pruning. Effectively Bitcoin full nodes just need to track the currently spendable coins in order to validate blocks, spending coins reduces the set, creating outputs increases it. Right now that data is only about 300MBytes and it grows much more slowly than the blockchain (even with people gunking it up with forever unspendable data storage outputs). In the bytecoin approach transactions create spendable coins and transactions also create spent keys, there is no 'reduces'— it grows forever. Breaking pruning is pretty big scalability hit in the long run.  (Incidentally, all other cryptographic anonymity systems have similar long term scaling challenges)

But having this stuff available FOR Bitcoin isn't the same as having it IN Bitcoin. So I wouldn't count out having it for the Bitcoin currency even if I don't expect to see it in the Bitcoin blockchain anytime soon. It certantly seems easier to deploy than zerocash which requires a similar spent coins list plus a committed UTXO and a lot more heavyweight crypto code.

What do you personally think about CPU-mining as an idea?

That maybe it's just handing a mining hardware manufacturing monopoly to a near-duopoly of multiple billion dollar CPU making companies that have patent warchests that probably preclude competition? And then there is the advantage they that botnet herders have… It's hard to say. I don't really believe "CPU mining" is actually possible— even if you somehow found a function that was suitable as a good POW but made perfect use of cpu hardware, you can usually get a factor of 2-10 in better (power, mfg) efficiency by cutting out fat (e.g. IO) and optimizing for mining use.  Since mining is ideally perfect competition even 'small' advantages can push all the competition out of the market. This also applies to the R&D, a lot of CPU costs to customers are NRE— cost to Intel and AMD are much lower marginally.

Andytoshi wrote a lot more about POW functions and I basically agree with his views: https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/asic-faq.pdf  Mostly I think that POW stuff is the least interesting stuff to mess with, yet it's easy to get it wrong (e.g. and permit surprising optimizations) or create collateral damage (e.g. making verifying too expensive, or precluding SPV nodes (e.g. POS coins break SPV pretty badly)). Way too much though is put into POW because its a kind of easily accessible surface technology that attracts a lot of shed painting.  About the only thing in that space that I've found at all interesting is the idea that it might be possible to make a POW out of ticking for public timelock encryption... though the fact that having "useful side-effect" actually is a point against a POW approach, we currently have basically other idea of how decentralized time-lock encryption could be created (Perhaps through indistinguishably obfuscation of some code that read bitcoin headers to get the time— but even that would require trusted initialization) ... so getting it as a POW outcome might be interesting.

[Xdragon]

Where can I get the CPU Miner?

https://github.com/LucasJones/cpuminer-multi

Does not work on win 8.1 x64. Looks like it is a common problem. Is there a difference between cpuminer and simpleminer in hash rate?

[drawingthesun]

CryptoNote White paper is puplished on October 17, 2013.
https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

Yeah, CryptoNote "v2". I wonder if there was "v1" at some point.

See

https://cryptonote.org/coins.php

and is regarded as the first implementation of the CryptoNote technology, with releases dating as early as July 2012

Basically this coin has been mining for two years, it was mining before they started to release the paper and research. It's a premine pure and simple.

At least Satoshi released his whitepaper in the same month as Bitcoin, not over a year later.

https://minergate.com/blockchain/bcn/block/1

To be honest, the only people that are going to shout and be loud in support of Bytecoin over Monero are the people who have billions of Bytecoin.

[drawingthesun]

Also if you want to work out the age of the chain, this might not be exact for actual age in years, but its timed in years as that is how much has been mined, to give you an idea.

Please let me know if I screw up the calculation.

Bytecoin height: 483532

Target: 120 seconds.

Chain age = (120 seconds * 483,532 blocks) = 58,023,840 seconds.

58,023,840 seconds = 967,064 minutes.

967,064 minutes = 16,117.733 hours.

16,117.733 hours = 671.5 days.

671.5 = 1.83 years.

Even if this was mined last month, it's still the majority of the coin.

Either pre-mined or insta-mined.

I have no idea why people are supporting this one over a fairer release (Monero)

[Rias]

The ring signature is a little trickier:  The cryptography itself is simple (I'll probably add a version using SECP256k1 to Sipa's libsecp256k1 once he figures out how he wants to handle hash functions for determinstic signing and schnorr signatures), but the overall implementation requires an additional spent coin set which is another utxo like data structure— this also isn't so bad, but its completely incompatible with pruning. Effectively Bitcoin full nodes just need to track the currently spendable coins in order to validate blocks, spending coins reduces the set, creating outputs increases it. Right now that data is only about 300MBytes and it grows much more slowly than the blockchain (even with people gunking it up with forever unspendable data storage outputs). In the bytecoin approach transactions create spendable coins and transactions also create spent keys, there is no 'reduces'— it grows forever. Breaking pruning is pretty big scalability hit in the long run.  (Incidentally, all other cryptographic anonymity systems have similar long term scaling challenges)

As far as I understand CryptoNote, there is indeed a drawback of having to store the spent outputs in the block chain, but this is done through key images, which shouldn't be too large (I read it somewhere on forum.cryptonote.org, but couldn't find immediately to prove). In any case, there will always be full nodes capable of doing it, while some light nodes might depend on the former. There should be scalability issue at some point, but not in the short term for sure. And yes, Zerocoin has potentially the same problems.

Do you think it is possible to make a soft/hard fork with 2 key points?

1) so that the ring signature doesn't use the keys, which are, let's say, more than a year old.
2) so that key images are stored more compact like in zerocash?

That could be a solution to the scalability issue.

That maybe it's just handing a mining hardware manufacturing monopoly to a near-duopoly of multiple billion dollar CPU making companies that have patent warchests that probably preclude competition? And then there is the advantage they that botnet herders have… It's hard to say. I don't really believe "CPU mining" is actually possible— even if you somehow found a function that was suitable as a good POW but made perfect use of cpu hardware, you can usually get a factor of 2-10 in better (power, mfg) efficiency by cutting out fat (e.g. IO) and optimizing for mining use.  Since mining is ideally perfect competition even 'small' advantages can push all the competition out of the market. This also applies to the R&D, a lot of CPU costs to customers are NRE— cost to Intel and AMD are much lower marginally.

I think the whole point is to make ASICs economically unviabile. It will always be possible to create a special purpose device, which is cheaper than CPU, but if the break even point is millions or billions of those devices per year, no manufacturer would even bother going into this business. I doubt you can restrict mining to CPU-only by design, but if you apply business considerations, this might actually work out.

It's not just the research, which would be costly. On the other hand, there are already billions of computers, which are suitable for CryptoNight PoW, while I'm not aware if there is any other device close to a standard CPU's speed.

Did you read about CryptoNight in general?
https://cryptonote.org/inside.php#equal-proof-of-work


By the way, the algos behind Bytecoin are somewhat complicated according to my taste. Do you know if any of your colleagues or friends are related to the coin itself or CryptoNote's research? There is a crypto-lib by Daniel Bernstein, which is used in the source code, and also Adam Back has been already writing about Bytecoin quite some time ago. Do you know them? Who else could be capable of creating Bytecoin?