Should DT and Merit Source Members Be Promoting A Known Scam?

[Vispilio]

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I will admit the only person I saw wearing that signature was wolwoo.  If you did not, then please accept my apology for suggesting you did.

I also retract the bad words I extended towards you.

You are obviously a very educated and smart guy, and seeing you so many times side with people who are showing extreme prejudice to your neighbors is leading to some emotional reactions  ...

ps. I never bring anyone's race or ethnicity into the debate, unless it was mentioned specifically by them or brought into the discourse for other reasons previously, just to clear the air before the NPC trolls get triggered again...

[1714629099]

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[JollyGood]

I think wolwoo should stop promoting YoBit so everyone can move on. As a side note, I think the same is true for Yahoo, including him managing (or whatever he is calling it)  

If this means the spam is bad for a few days from YoBit posters, then YoBit signatures will get banned again.

This is a great point! The underlying root cause of the YoBit spammers promoting a scam exchange is they want to receive the monitory reward that Yobit pays out. I agree that wolwoo should immidiately remove his signature and maybe the OP will forgive him.

Even if you give YoBit the maximum benefit of the doubt, they are still very shady and have engaged in many pump and dump scams and appear to be willing to sell a listing on their exchange for next to nothing. I don’t think YoBit being a scam is even boarder line, it is very clear cut. I think YoBit should be transparently a scam to everyone else. This is not me trying to sow discord within those promoting this exchange.

I don’t think Rodger Ver is allowing YoBit to advertise on his forum.

I have no idea about whether any other forums are allowing Yobit to promote their signature or not but it would no doubt be showing on their own cryptotalk forum.

With evidence mounting many people will have no choice but to concur when you say there is no borderline and is an out-an-out scam. For me, it already is a scam.

Having said that the thread is about a DT member who has stated he knows Yobit is a scam yet has continued to promote it and added that victims are to blame for getting scammed as well as adding a known fake trust circle member and merit abuser to his trust list (wolwoo):


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Anybody that has responsibility as DT might end up having (for one reason or another) a highly aggressive foul-mouthed user on their trust list, maybe it can happen but no responsible DT member can have a user who was caught out being part of a merit abuse and fake trust circle on his own trust list and add the following glowing feedback for him which could not be further from the truth and that is highly irresponsible, not the action of a DT member. I certainly would not describe wolwoo as:

"A really clever and good-natured individual who has brought a much needed air of goodwill and camaraderie to the local and global forum. Highly reliable conduct in all of his actions I've witnessed so far. "

[marlboroza]

WtF is chipmixer doing in yobit's thread again?



Now that is retaliatory feedback and is shows very bad judgement of DT member.

@Vispilio, when you say that something which you are advertising is running some kind of financial pyramid scam, and you keep advertising such service for your own financial gain no matter what, it makes you associate in a crime.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

the petty games you play to win a coveted spot from the Chipmixer signature...

Meh, I doubt that.  I don't think slamming Yobit would enhance anyone's chances to get in to the Chipmixer campaign, nor would DarkStar_ probably even notice that stuff.  I'm sure he's busy with other things and he doesn't usually post in these drama-filled threads.

I promise you I would teach you a lesson that your ancestors would be proud of, if you were to try any of this duplicitous bullshit in person, Mr. DireHyena...

Internet tough guy in the house.  But somehow I think you're so offended by this precisely because it hurts your chances to keep making money from Cryptotalk/Yobit.  Talk about getting uppity for a few pennies more, eh?  What would your middle eastern ancestors think about that?

[JollyGood]

No members should be wearing this, never mind someone on DT! promoting yocunts is one thing, promoting something that is an obvious scam is something else - I actually think OP did a good job of bringing this to light, simple solution is for wolwoo to remove the sig and move on. In the future he needs to be careful with what he promotes, everyone gets a chance to make things right surely?

Thank you TMAN. I definitely agree with you that everybody should get a chance or more to make things right. Maybe one day wolwoo will be able to calm down and articulate his views in a more friendly manner which will bring him closer to the global forum members and not just in his local language board which will allow the healing process to start.

So far it seems like when he was banned from the Yobit campaign he simply cracked, expressed aggression along with volatility and some profanities, then took on a personal fight against some in the English/Global boards because some highly respected members (and some slightly lesser members including myself) deemed him unsuitable for the DT position that he had after some manipulation took place to get him there. Some of us also objected to his aim of becoming Merit Source so he maintained a very aggressive stance towards us.

Bringing the main issue from the OP back in to this, Vispilio could and should have used his special relationship to ask wolwoo to take a step back and relax but chose to subtly egg him on.

And regardless of what else might or might not be going on in the background, it is clear Vispilio has demonstrated he is not suitable for any responsible role such as Merit Source or DT after promoting a project that he himself cited as a scam.

[notblox1]

Isn't Yahoo DT member and Yobit campaign manager also?
People are talking bad about everyone else except about Yahoo, that is something like taboo

I don't like yobit, but I think opening so many topics about it you give it free advertisement.

[IconFirm]

WtF is chipmixer doing in yobit's thread again?



Now that is retaliatory feedback and is shows very bad judgement of DT member.

@Vispilio, when you say that something which you are advertising is running some kind of financial pyramid scam, and you keep advertising such service for your own financial gain no matter what, it makes you associate in a crime.

I completely agree. Diabolical behaviour for a DT account - Theymos/admins should take action.

Tagged & ignored.

[Vispilio]

... Internet tough guy in the house.  But somehow I think you're so offended by this precisely because it hurts your chances to keep making money from Cryptotalk/Yobit.  Talk about getting uppity for a few pennies more, eh?  What would your middle eastern ancestors think about that?

My ancestors are not from the Middle East, I'm from the Black Sea, but let's not ruin your short-sighted fantasies ...

...



Now that is retaliatory feedback and is shows very bad judgement of DT member.

...

Nothing to do with retaliation, everything written there is the absolute truth, try it sometime, it might make a man out of you yet marlboroza... Good Luck

[suchmoon]

Nothing to do with retaliation, everything written there is the absolute truth, try it sometime, it might make a man out of you yet marlboroza... Good Luck

Your rating is bullshit. There are no "irrefutable flags" that JollyGood's criticism of Yobit will cause financial damage. You seem to be unable to separate opinion from fact, not a good trait for a DT member.

[Vispilio]

Nothing to do with retaliation, everything written there is the absolute truth, try it sometime, it might make a man out of you yet marlboroza... Good Luck

Your rating is bullshit. There are no "irrefutable flags" that JollyGood's criticism of Yobit will cause financial damage. You seem to be unable to separate opinion from fact, not a good trait for a DT member.

In principle, it is irrefutable. There is a difference between theory and practice. The full disclosure of malicious intent is sufficient to warrant a negative feedback.

When you think about it, everything is an opinion when it comes to moral judgement.

"There are no moral phenomena, only a moral interpretation of phenomena" (one of the strongest quotes from Beyond Good and Evil)

Based on past observations, I don't expect a petty spiteful manipulator like you to understand the intricacies of ontology, but I hope you can at least use your energies to improve your intellectual faculties a bit for the well being of this forum, as theymos seems to so far have placed an inexplicably high amount of trust in you...

[Bthd]

All users who promote scams should be held to account but the difference between those that promote it in the belief it is not a scam versus those that promote it knowing it is a scam are two different things altogether. The distinction between the two is huge. In the case of  Vispilio he has made it clear he believes Yobit is a scam and is happy to blame victims for falling to the scam that he promotes. In the case of other users, I have not read them say they believe they are promoting a scam (maybe just wolwoo who in one of the threads linked in the OP might have let it slip once or twice while he was spouting profanities or being highly obnoxious).

Jollygood, everyone in this forum which has sr and upper ranks knows what means %10 guarantee profit, even they didnt write this sentence on forum. There is a lot of members on Yobit campaign and all of them knows Yobit is a very high risk* exchange.

We have two groups for yobit signature campaign.

promoting yobit signature - knowing what means %10 profit and warning users about it.

or

promoting yobit signature - knowing what means %10 profit and not writing anything about it.

There is some other DT members at yobit campaign which choose second choice. Which one is better ? Negative trusting to first group choosers not seems fair. I think it's better than first one.

On the other hand forum did not ban to promoting yobit signature so every one can promote. 

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marlborozo you are promoting X campaign for your own financial gain and i'm promoting Y campaign for my gain. how can we got sure about a project which is not created by ourself ? mt.gox was the most trustfull exchange at 2010-2011 and then they scammed all. May be X or Y campaigns are more proffessional scammers than Yobit, we cant know it anyway before they walk away. Campaign X or Y or Z, it doesnt matters we cant know the reality. we should not promote any campaign if we are speaking about real honesty.

i hope forum cancell all signatures and bounties. we'll have less dramas. (no money, no drama, no bounty scammers, no more empty messages for signatures)

*In my opinion yobit is a big scam and users should walk away from it.

[JollyGood]

Should DT and Merit Source Members Be Promoting A Known Scam?

DT or Not. None should promote a known scam.

I agree but when someone promotes it proclaims ignorance it is completely different to someone who openly states it is a scam but continues to promote and blames the victims for falling for the scam and not being smart enough to walk away.

When a DT says it no more proof should be needed that the person is completely irresponsible and unsuited to DT rank.

ps. I never bring anyone's race or ethnicity into the debate, unless it was mentioned specifically by them or brought into the discourse for other reasons previously

Clutching at straws again. You play the race card as and when it suits your agenda, mostly because you are unable to debate in a civil manner and want to create diversion tactics to deflect away from whatever the topic of discussion was...

Please don't involve me in your little DT games, it's extremely boring. If you have a problem / extreme butthurt with Turkish users gaining representation,

take it up with theymos instead of employing NPC trolls to do your dirty work like your newly anointed zealous thrall JollyGood above... Good Luck

I don't have a problem with Turkish users, nice try making it about nationality again. A great example of flawed judgment exhibited by a yet another DT1 member.

I have a problem with you playing that card, as well as with idiots in general getting into DT1 so I will point that out whether you like it or not.

[atenolol]

No members should be wearing this, never mind someone on DT! promoting yocunts is one thing, promoting something that is an obvious scam is something else - I actually think OP did a good job of bringing this to light, simple solution is for wolwoo to remove the sig and move on. In the future he needs to be careful with what he promotes, everyone gets a chance to make things right surely?

Wolwoo is out of the campaign, if he continues wearing the sig I cannot stop him.

yahoo  was managing Yobit.net signature campaign and got a lot o merits for that. Now if you go through the forum everyone is calling yobit scam (It is a scam indeed ) All that scam exchange supporters have being red tagged and some of them banned. yahoo62278 might be a great bounty manager but was no one sad anything bad about that campaign. So what is going on on this forum? I am not saying anything bad about yahoo but i need some explanation.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5188047.0

[suchmoon]

In principle, it is irrefutable. There is a difference between theory and practice. The full disclosure of malicious intent is sufficient to warrant a negative feedback.

Your reference link points to this thread, which shows JollyGood explaining their justification for red-trusting you. "Malicious intent" seems to be an excuse for your itch to retaliate.

Based on past observations, I don't expect a petty spiteful manipulator like you to understand the intricacies of ontology, but I hope you can at least use your energies to improve your intellectual faculties a bit for the well being of this forum, as theymos seems to so far have placed an inexplicably high amount of trust in you...

That's news to me and probably to theymos.

Now here's what you could do for the good of the forum: stop using red trust as your personal blog about people you disagree with.

[The Cryptovator]

marlborozo you are promoting X campaign for your own financial gain and i'm promoting Y campaign for my gain. how can we got sure about a project which is not created by ourself ? mt.gox was the most trustfull exchange at 2010-2011 and then they scammed all. May be X or Y campaigns are more proffessional scammers than Yobit, we cant know it anyway before they walk away. Campaign X or Y or Z, it doesnt matters we cant know the reality. we should not promote any campaign if we are speaking about real honesty.

Whoever on the forum wearing paid signature this is for financial gain (including me). And that's the bitter truth even though we accept or not. But what about a project that you are agree with that they are scammer and on the other hand you wearing signature? If you are wearing signature then you should not agree that they are scammer, this is the morality. You are right that we don't know any project they will skip or not, but if they skip or scam people still will you wear signature? I think no.

Many user wearing Yobit signature but doesn't mean they should redundancy with it. Even I had not noticed @wolwoo & @Vispilio before they made Yobit drama. There is more participants, no one got tag so why they were made drama? In as result they removed from DT1 and got tag as well. Seems they are leaving retaliatory feedback (although its not worth anymore) but this is not proper use of trust. We should not forget that we are all just forum users, we are not something extra powerful. So we should match ourself with the community.

[DireWolfM14]

I think wolwoo should stop promoting YoBit so everyone can move on. As a side note, I think the same is true for Yahoo, including him managing (or whatever he is calling it)   

If this means the spam is bad for a few days from YoBit posters, then YoBit signatures will get banned again.

This is a great point! The underlying root cause of the YoBit spammers promoting a scam exchange is they want to receive the monitory reward that Yobit pays out. I agree that wolwoo should immidiately remove his signature and maybe the OP will forgive him.

Even if you give YoBit the maximum benefit of the doubt, they are still very shady and have engaged in many pump and dump scams and appear to be willing to sell a listing on their exchange for next to nothing. I don’t think YoBit being a scam is even boarder line, it is very clear cut. I think YoBit should be transparently a scam to everyone else. This is not me trying to sow discord within those promoting this exchange.

I don’t think Rodger Ver is allowing YoBit to advertise on his forum.

Lol!  Well, one reassuring thing is that you can have a sense of humor about it.  I'll chalk that up as one observable instance where you provide concrete, indisputable evidence that you're not a complete sociopath.

[marlboroza]

marlborozo you are promoting X campaign for your own financial gain and i'm promoting Y campaign for my gain. how can we got sure about a project which is not created by ourself ? mt.gox was the most trustfull exchange at 2010-2011 and then they scammed all. May be X or Y campaigns are more proffessional scammers than Yobit, we cant know it anyway before they walk away. Campaign X or Y or Z, it doesnt matters we cant know the reality. we should not promote any campaign if we are speaking about real honesty.

What? That is not what I said, it is taken out of context and it is complete nonsense.

Who are these fictitious victims by the way ?

Another proof that you don't read anything, you are just posting crap!

I can confirm that. Yobit Investbox is a scam!
I personally invested $100 before a year and a half in Yobit Investbox buying one of his shitcoin. Also with 10% interest. After the first 24h and first payments, I was never positive counting investment + profit. So, my $100 investment +10% reward worth $95 after the first 24h. After a few days, I decided to withdraw and sell daily interest only, and keep my basic investment active. Two weeks later, my initial investment worth $0,001, profit which I am withdrawing from Investbox worth around $15.
later I followed some of their tokens, the same schemes was always repeated.
For me, it is a SCAM!

On gambling, I have the chance to win something, small but still have a chance. But on Yobit IB, I can only lose.

Nothing to do with retaliation, everything written there is the absolute truth, try it sometime, it might make a man out of you yet marlboroza... Good Luck

It is retaliation feedback!

Anyway, this user got my attention when they start defending plagiarist scam account, some banned accounts, some users who gamed DT system, continued to defend proven scam advertiser and merited lie, everything is documented here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5210195.msg53365479#msg53365479. Also, deflection and ad hominem attacks are very usual behavior of this account. (If they remove any post, just go to one of archive sites and search archived threads).

It really does not surprise me to see them shilling hard.
Can someone translate this post to english:

doğru bir yaklaşım, umarım kazanır, Kalemder foruma düzenli katkılarının yanında bir de sanat yarışmasında olağanüstü emek gösterdi,

Meta'daki türlü entrikalara rağmen de çok erdemli duruş sergiledi, haklı bir seçim olur.

?

[JollyGood]

WtF is chipmixer doing in yobit's thread again?



Now that is retaliatory feedback and is shows very bad judgement of DT member.

@Vispilio, when you say that something which you are advertising is running some kind of financial pyramid scam, and you keep advertising such service for your own financial gain no matter what, it makes you associate in a crime.

As you highlighted, retaliatory feedback shows he is not suitable for DT but by his own admission he said he knew he was promoting a scam therefore how can anybody provide any justification for Vispilio to be DT rank when he is the antithesis of what a DT member should be?

the petty games you play to win a coveted spot from the Chipmixer signature...

Meh, I doubt that.  I don't think slamming Yobit would enhance anyone's chances to get in to the Chipmixer campaign, nor would DarkStar_ probably even notice that stuff.  I'm sure he's busy with other things and he doesn't usually post in these drama-filled threads.

I promise you I would teach you a lesson that your ancestors would be proud of, if you were to try any of this duplicitous bullshit in person, Mr. DireHyena...

Internet tough guy in the house.  But somehow I think you're so offended by this precisely because it hurts your chances to keep making money from Cryptotalk/Yobit.  Talk about getting uppity for a few pennies more, eh?  What would your middle eastern ancestors think about that?

Well, it seems threatening DireWolfM14 with physical violence is another reason to continue holding Vispilio the low regard that he deserves after knowingly promoting a project that he himself calls a scam. Shocking.

Isn't Yahoo DT member and Yobit campaign manager also?
People are talking bad about everyone else except about Yahoo, that is something like taboo

I don't like yobit, but I think opening so many topics about it you give it free advertisement.

I am not sure how it all worked out but think there was some form of consensus that led to yahoo62278 being asked or volunteering to manage the Yobit campaign because of previous issues with either non-payment to participants or thread flooding (or maybe both). It has been quoted in several places he managed to clean up a lot the forum by banning several spammers and low-level trash posters which many users appreciated. I think only yahoo62278 can elaborate further or to correct me.

Having said that, this thread was not created about any user showing Yobit or any other banners. I have no interest in which user displays which banner or participates in which campaign unless when the user states he knows he is promoting a scam.

In the case of Vispilio, he is DT yet he is participating in a campaign promoting a project that he has himself labelled a scam. Furthermore he believes victims who fall prey to the scam are effectively to blame for getting scammed and on top of that he has no issues displaying the Yobit banner.

Why is this different from the other many, many users displaying Yobit banners and getting paid for it? As mentioned in the OP:

In simple terms, if a user promotes a scam but does not believe or accept it is a scam, then it is up to the community to present evidence to show them they are wrong.

If however a user openly states he knows he is promoting a scam and then fault blames victims for getting scammed then that clearly shows the user is unsuitable for any responsible role.

If you know of any other users that say they know the banner they are promoting is a scam then please let me know so I can open a thread highlighting them or kindly open a thread yourself and others will post their views there.

WtF is chipmixer doing in yobit's thread again?

~snip~

Now that is retaliatory feedback and is shows very bad judgement of DT member.

@Vispilio, when you say that something which you are advertising is running some kind of financial pyramid scam, and you keep advertising such service for your own financial gain no matter what, it makes you associate in a crime.

I completely agree. Diabolical behaviour for a DT account - Theymos/admins should take action.

Tagged & ignored.

Thank you IconFirm. I agree the admins should really take note of how a DT member is promoting a project he himself calls a scam, then plays the race card when it suits him. This is beyond diabolical for a DT rank to behave in such a nonsensical unbefitting manner.

[hacker1001101001]

Red trust on @Vispilio by @JollyGood.

Vispilio has self-admitted that Yobit is a scam but he continues to promote their banners for financial gain. He claims the victims are to blame for getting scammed.

No user should ever knowingly promote a scam. No DT users should ever add known merit/fake trust abusers on their own trust list

Recent statement by @JollyGood.

Other than leaving red trust for Yobit and just one Yobit signature promoter (because of his condescending conduct and deliberate misdirection not failure to justify why he was a die-hard Yobit promoter), I did not leave feedback for Yobit signature promoter.

In my view anybody promoting a scam are guilty of being a scam too simply by association but more important than that is the view I hold they are most probably more ignorant than anything else therefore I do not leave red trust for that reason alone. Had signature promoters investigated the facts fully then most would probably not participate in those scam campaigns."

At time of writing I was and still am against tagging everybody or anybody specifically because they are participating in a scam culture signature campaign for the reasons stated above. I gave reasons for specifically tagging the Yobit user account and the OP user account.

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5211902.180

I don't know if lier word suits here better or with me.

[JollyGood]

~snip~

You are not mistaken, you are deliberately trying to mislead just as you did by perpetuating a lie in the other thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5212036.msg53658209#msg53658209) and now here too. Your motives for doing so are open to interpretation:

I am so very very tired
Everywhere full of the Mother fucker
This forum is good but people's asshole
Goodluck Theymos
Thanks

Come on dude, you are more than this.

I like your presence around here, hope you see, all the users here are not assholes, but majority in power are, I agree. Keep fighting for good throughout your life.

I am out, I was not upto accusing JollyGood of anything, above was just an advice from me regarding use of trust system, but it's everyone's own opinion.

Well, you changed your tune quick but let us not call that another lie from you


You may have locked your thread after users were discussing whether adding DT negative trust for you was appropriate or not, but it will still be discussed at some point. Maybe your post here was to pre-empt my input in it but it will not: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5213377.msg53659644#msg53659644


So going back to your post here, if you think it is important for you to consider me as a liar or not and you want to open a thread to discuss it and ask opinions from other users, please feel free to create one but this thread is about whether it is right for a DT ranked user to promote what he himself has called a scam so kindly stay on topic please.