Trust System Abuse By Nullius

[nullius]

Sorry, I forgot to remark on this before:

~

You know what, time to end this.  Let me clear up the negative trust so you won't complain about it anymore.  Done.  Now the burden of substantiation on each of us is identical.

Of course, you thus trolled me into checking his trust page.  I see what you did there.  It has an elegant symmetry—it is justifiable in the totality of the circumstance—and he can’t even complain about it without showing his usual rank hypocrisy.  Of course, that last means that he will whine about it incessantly.

Nullius - myself and a couple others have substantiated the claims against Techy.  The proof is in the reference link.

I know!  Of course, I read your reference link before I supported your tag; and I read others’ reference links, too.  Nothing that I have said indicates even in the slightest that I can’t answer him.

The gravamen of my reply was that I am not called to answer by the likes of TECSHARE.  I made a tag based severally* on other tags, including yours—each of which is well-supported, and speaks for itself.  I will not waste my time arguing with a troll on endless forum threads about this.  He is beneath reply.  Case closed.  Direct complaints to /dev/null, and DNFTT.

Vod, I am guessing that you probably remember Usenet, yes?  I cut my teeth on anti-abuse groups on Usenet (and, as suchmoon didn’t notice, I then sharpened them dealing with the slippery twists of actual lawyers in actual courtrooms).  TECSHARE is nothing.

(* To emphasize, for those who may not understand the technical meaning of that word:  “Severally” means that my tag is good if either or both of Vod’s and Lauda’s respective tags is good.  Thus, somebody who trusts with the judgment of the maker of at least one of those tags cannot logically distrust my judgment over my support thereof.)

Techy chooses to either ignore or claim he does not understand.  He does not have anyone who wants to help him.  I don't think you will convince him of anything.

And that is why I ignore him!  DNFTT.

His next step will be to post a list of your supporters and extort them into untrusting you.

OK, yawn.  For my part, if I were in your position, I wouldn’t want any “supporters” who lack the self-confidence to either ignore TECSHARE—or tell TECSHARE to go fork himself, and then ignore him.  That would even be a useful filter on flushing out false friends—although it is a weak filter, for this is not even a matter of courage!  LOL, seriously:  TECSHARE is a troll on an Internet forum.  That’s it.  Anybody who cannot stand up to him is completely useless.

So, what is he going to do, whine you to death?  He certainly tries.  Manipulate the trust system and then use it against you?  Indeed, Vod, that is why I supported and continue to support your negative feedback for his trust-system abuse!  But I react to that with the relative unconcern of pessimism; for when I returned to the forum, it took me all of three days to predict the long-term catastrophic failure of the new, “democratic DT” (my own term, BTW, which I am thrilled to see Lauda seems to have taken up :-):

Maybe Theymos can think of some better idea to stop and prevent 'more abuse dt wars'
It's not fun at all.

Well, I infer that was his purpose in neutering the effect of feedback, and essentially democratizing DT in a convoluted way.

My prediction as to the latter is that it will destroy the trust system.  In the long term, it will put DT under control of those who optimize for gaining control of DT by any means necessary, and devote unbounded time and effort to doing so.  That is a bad criterion.  As for cleaning up these sordid threads, it will backfire and will escalate, not quash the perpetual DT wars:  Demagogues, agitprop, and “negative campaign ads” thrive in such a system.

Underlined:  Perfect for TECSHARE!  But I was expecting it—this, I was expecting in the long term.

The following was neither sour grapes nor mere idle talk, whereas I had spent the previous few weeks thinking about my own above-quoted prediction and the problem of “democratic DT”:

Since my life is too valuable to waste on flamewars with no objective other than “arguing on the Internet”, the worst that can happen (the worst—from your [suchmoon’s] perspective) is that I decide that the DT system is broken by design, I mostly withdraw from Reputation in favour of more productive tasks, and meanwhile, I think about perhaps some long-term way to make the forum trust system obsolete.  “Cypherpunks write code.”

But that was addressed to suchmoon, who is the real problem on this thread.  I know how you feel about that, Vod; and I do not want to downtalk your friend to you.  Please do understand that I must be forthright; and when the first eight pages of this thread are viewed objectively, it is clear that I have cause to say what I have said, and to say more of it.

Speaking thereof, I half-drafted a reply to suchmoon’s latest snarky one-liner.  I will finish it and post it later.  For now, as a priority, I am replying at some length to make it unequivocally clear to you, Vod, that (1) I refrain from replying to TECSHARE’s drivel because it is drivel, not for any lack of confidence in tags that, as you will note, I am still firmly supporting; and, (2) I am unimpressed at TECSHARE’s attempt to coerce your supporters.  Some of the names on his hate-list look mighty tough to me.  I doubt that they will throw you under the bus to appease TECSHARE, of all creatures (!); and if they do, I hope that others will step up to support you.*

* It seems apropos to remark that, as I have stated somewhere in other threads, my own inclusions list is extremely picky.  How picky?  I do not include theymos—that’s how picky.

Vod was one of the obvious choices for a shortlist of candidates for inclusion.  After whittling the names down, I left him off my trust list for relatively trivial reasons of my own, irrelevant to TECSHARE’s criticisms of him.  I will not say what, because I don’t want to give TECSHARE any ammo.  I reconsider such things from time to time, anyway.

[TECSHARE]

You aren't above justifying your use of the trust system to penalize me. You are using all of the force and trust of the community as a weapon against me and you refuse to justify your actions, simply stating past accusations that were themselves unproven are true. The only reason you have that authority is because the community allows it.

Your inability to justify your behavior clearly demonstrates you are only interested in abusing the trust system as a cudgel to force users into compliance with your totalitarian behavior. You keep writing these long winded screeds about how great you and Vod are, how you are above justifying yourself, and how right you are, without ever actually demonstrating anything. Both Vod and Nullius have overstepped their bounds here and are using negative ratings as a punitive tool to punish people with ideas they don't like. Either the trust system maintains base standards for everyone, or all it will be is a joke used to abuse its most long standing and trusted members. You think they are going to stop with me? You are next.

[Vod]

You are using all of the force and trust of the community as a weapon

I hope you understand the community gave you the same trust.  You showed you could not be trusted.

The same community that trusts me does not trust you.    

Either the trust system maintains base standards for everyone, or all it will be is a joke used to abuse its most long standing and trusted members.

Geez Techy, how much more standardized could your trust and my trust be?  Identical ratings, both equally factual.  If my trust is abusive, then you were abusive first.

For now, as a priority, I am replying at some length to make it unequivocally clear to you, Vod, that (1) I refrain from replying to TECSHARE’s drivel because it is drivel, not for any lack of confidence in tags that, as you will note, I am still firmly supporting; and, (2) I am unimpressed at TECSHARE’s attempt to coerce your supporters.  Some of the names on his hate-list look mighty tough to me.  I doubt that they will throw you under the bus to appease TECSHARE, of all creatures (!); and if they do, I hope that others will step up to support you.*

OK bud - when Techy claims to win because you won't reply, I'll point users to this information.

I wish I had your ability to ignore unethical idiots.   :/

[dkbit98]

What a waste of time and space must be living in nulliuses skin  
Boring retarded post, quoting random members.... perfect day for him...

[suchmoon]

Speaking thereof, I half-drafted a reply to suchmoon’s latest snarky one-liner.  I will finish it and post it later.

Ok, now you made me feel sorry for you. The snark was supposed to indicate that you shouldn't waste your time on this, like be the bigger man and don't take my trollbait. Based on how this is going so far I doubt that there is anything you could say about it that could make things better in this thread or for the forum in general.

[eddie13]

Thread summary: nullius fell into the trap of backing Vod's claims because he is too green to know not to trust anything Vod says about reputational issues at face value without thoroughly fact checking them because of how well known Vod is for making one false statement after another and completely refusing to prove them..

Case in point..

The resources of this forum may be insufficient to fully organize the trust abuse by Techy.  A wiki might work better.   That's how I'm organizing the *massive* amount of illegal activities by the person who stole 500 bitcoin cash from this community.

nullius merited this absolute false claim by Vod..
Lol soooo foolish..
Soo smart but yet merits misinformation and goes on this entire tirade of supporting the source of so much similar misinformation left and right.. Doesn't have the experience to recognize BS when he sees it..

Vod's negative rating is obvious retaliation for TS's absolutely correct rating on Vod for doxing and IRS snitching.. Hard to believe nullius supports an IRS snitch of all things..
Supports hiding your wealth from governments on one hand and on the other hand supports someone that reports others to the government IRS and SEC.. How comical..

[TECSHARE]

Thread summary: nullius fell into the trap of backing Vod's claims because he is too green to know not to trust anything Vod says about reputational issues at face value without thoroughly fact checking them because of how well known Vod is for making one false statement after another and completely refusing to prove them..

Case in point..

The resources of this forum may be insufficient to fully organize the trust abuse by Techy.  A wiki might work better.   That's how I'm organizing the *massive* amount of illegal activities by the person who stole 500 bitcoin cash from this community.

nullius merited this absolute false claim by Vod..
Lol soooo foolish..
Soo smart but yet merits misinformation and goes on this entire tirade of supporting the source of so much similar misinformation left and right.. Doesn't have the experience to recognize BS when he sees it..

Vod's negative rating is obvious retaliation for TS's absolutely correct rating on Vod for doxing and IRS snitching.. Hard to believe nullius supports an IRS snitch of all things..
Supports hiding your wealth from governments on one hand and on the other hand supports someone that reports others to the government IRS and SEC.. How comical..

That pretty much sums it up. I keep trying to explain how his rating is based on Vod's frivolous fake rating, but the moderators have deleted about a dozen posts relating to this so far. I am not sure how I am expected to be able to defend myself if I literally can't even address the accusations against me that it is based on. Of course the person spamming reports of my posts knows this I am sure and would prefer I was unable to point out the lack of evidence for any of these claims, and the moderators are all too willing to help them cover it up.

[pugman]

Are you guys still fighting behind this? Come on, y'all can forgive and forget.

I mean, Quickseller and Lauda had a dispute for years, and if they could come to terms with each other, you can too. And if you can't, you both can go your own ways, remove the negative ratings from each other(make it neutral at least), and ignore each other in-definitively. If y'all are grown enough to write proper English sentences with fancy words, y'all can also be a bigger person and let it go. ❄️

[TECSHARE]

Are you guys still fighting behind this? Come on, y'all can forgive and forget.

I mean, Quickseller and Lauda had a dispute for years, and if they could come to terms with each other, you can too. And if you can't, you both can go your own ways, remove the negative ratings from each other(make it neutral at least), and ignore each other in-definitively. If y'all are grown enough to write proper English sentences with fancy words, y'all can also be a bigger person and let it go. ❄️

So you don't think leaving Vod a negative rating for doxing and threatening to report OGNasty to the IRS is justified? Some how it always seems the one who should just "let it go" are the ones who have legitimate grievances simply because no one wants to deal with it, not because it is what is right. I would also like to remind you that I had let his past abuse go, but it didn't matter, he just continued his antagonism anyway in spite of being rebuked for it by the community more than once.

[nullius]

I wish I had your ability to ignore unethical idiots.   :/

I find it beneficial to the health. :/

You know the aphorism about “wrestling with a pig”; and...

TECSHARE “winning”

...I don’t run on that track.

OK bud - when Techy claims to win because you won't reply, I'll point users to this information.

Thanks.  Though I am not exactly afraid of TECSHARE making ten thousand posts on this forum, excitedly announcing that he “won” an Internet Argument because I explicitly refused to waste my time arguing with accusations by a known troll that any reasonable person can see are wrong.  LOL.

Anybody whose opinion actually matters will see that I am simply ignoring a pro-grade Internet Arguer who is trying to bully me with high-volume nonsense.  That is what an impartial observer will see as for me—unlike suchmoon, who has spent the past nine pages dodging and then ignoring, inter alia, the iron logic of a simple syllogism, “If ~nullius, then ~Vod; if not ~Vod, then not ~nullius” over the singular tag for which she initially declared she would exclude me.  (Her and eddie’s attempts to shift the goalposts notwithstanding.)

Whereas if xolxol and similar creatures declare that TECSHARE “won”, then—well, I couldn’t care less.


Evidently addressing TECSHARE and Vod in the context:

Are you guys still fighting behind this? Come on, y'all can forgive and forget.

I mean, Quickseller and Lauda had a dispute for years, and if they could come to terms with each other, you can too.

That’s a quite different situation, not really relevant here; if warranted, I will address it in the pertinent thread.  The summary is that it has evidently been a process of two parties starting from a position of extreme mutual distrust, and slowly working toward the start of a common understanding with a hopeful future.  I must note the mutual distrust, in fairness to Quickseller:  I have obviously and unapologetically always been on Lauda’s side in that dispute; and I must recognize that Quickseller had his own perspective on that, even if I think his perspective was dead wrong.

I really don’t think it is a matter of “Eh, shrug, ‘forgive and forget’.”  Not for either of them—and I would not trivialize it that way.  Thus, sorry, I actually don’t see what your point is—unless you are suggesting a forecast that TECSHARE will go through a long period of not attacking Vod, and then suddenly, publicly, unilaterally apologize to Vod for years-old threads, with no assurance (or even rational expectation) that the reply will not be, “Too little, too late; go die in a fire”?  It actually takes some sincerity and courage to do that.

Whereas this is TECSHARE’s response to Lauda’s announcement of the new peace between herself and Quickseller:  Trolling with bait to ignite a flamewar by derailing the peace thread into a “dozen or so” other ongoing fights in other threads, i.e. more “winning” in the retarded sense.

http://loyce.club/archive/posts/5379/53799851.html

Now only to get to the other dozen or so people you attack...

Quickseller was never a simple troll.  (I always accused him of worse in the sense of “evil mastermind”; but that is beside the point.)  And I must remark, although he said earlier in this thread that he disagrees with my tag on TECSHARE, he has been fair here in the way that I can “agree to disagree”.  Anyway, pugman, I would not hold out much hope for any kind of peace with TECSHARE when he himself reacts to others’ newfound amicability by trying to start a fight.

That statement wasn't directed at you.

I appreciate the clarification.  Sorry I scrolled straight past a post in almost illegibly bad English by an alleged/putative CH sock in the short span between this...

~

Demanding me to address some "points" sounds an awful lot like cryptohunter

...and this:

Hey cryptocunt, you try two hardy notttalky the inglich good.

I furthermore presumed that insults were directed at me, because I am the topic of this thread, wherein you have previously seen fit to call me a...

complete buffoon

...as part of your life advice to me, which I duly filed in “taken under advisement”. 🗑️

In the future, when cryptohunter has been mentioned, I will try to pay more attention to things that I would otherwise ignore, instead of drawing such inferences as seemed reasonable, but turned out to be in error.

I will edit this post with an appropriate correction (clearly marked as an edit).

To avoid letting this post run too long and unwieldy, I must leave other issues for later.

[TECSHARE]

I wish I had your ability to ignore unethical idiots.   :/

I find it beneficial to the health. :/

You know the aphorism about “wrestling with a pig”; and...

TECSHARE “winning”
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/610/253/184.jpg

...I don’t run on that track.

OK bud - when Techy claims to win because you won't reply, I'll point users to this information.

Thanks.  Though I am not exactly afraid of TECSHARE making ten thousand posts on this forum, excitedly announcing that he “won” an Internet Argument because I explicitly refused to waste my time arguing with accusations by a known troll that any reasonable person can see are wrong.  LOL.

Anybody whose opinion actually matters will see that I am simply ignoring a pro-grade Internet Arguer who is trying to bully me with high-volume nonsense.  That is what an impartial observer will see as for me—unlike suchmoon, who has spent the past nine pages dodging and then ignoring, inter alia, the iron logic of a simple syllogism, “If ~nullius, then ~Vod; if not ~Vod, then not ~nullius” over the singular tag for which she initially declared she would exclude me.  (Her and eddie’s attempts to shift the goalposts notwithstanding.)

Whereas if xolxol and similar creatures declare that TECSHARE “won”, then—well, I couldn’t care less.


Evidently addressing TECSHARE and Vod in the context:

Are you guys still fighting behind this? Come on, y'all can forgive and forget.

I mean, Quickseller and Lauda had a dispute for years, and if they could come to terms with each other, you can too.

That’s a quite different situation, not really relevant here; if warranted, I will address it in the pertinent thread.  The summary is that it has evidently been a process of two parties starting from a position of extreme mutual distrust, and slowly working toward the start of a common understanding with a hopeful future.  I must note the mutual distrust, in fairness to Quickseller:  I have obviously and unapologetically always been on Lauda’s side in that dispute; and I must recognize that Quickseller had his own perspective on that, even if I think his perspective was dead wrong.

I really don’t think it is a matter of “Eh, shrug, ‘forgive and forget’.”  Not for either of them—and I would not trivialize it that way.  Thus, sorry, I actually don’t see what your point is—unless you are suggesting a forecast that TECSHARE will go through a long period of not attacking Vod, and then suddenly, publicly, unilaterally apologize to Vod for years-old threads, with no assurance (or even rational expectation) that the reply will not be, “Too little, too late; go die in a fire”?  It actually takes some sincerity and courage to do that.

Whereas this is TECSHARE’s response to Lauda’s announcement of the new peace between herself and Quickseller:  Trolling with bait to ignite a flamewar by derailing the peace thread into a “dozen or so” other ongoing fights in other threads, i.e. more “winning” in the retarded sense.

http://loyce.club/archive/posts/5379/53799851.html

Now only to get to the other dozen or so people you attack...

Quickseller was never a simple troll.  (I always accused him of worse in the sense of “evil mastermind”; but that is beside the point.)  And I must remark, although he said earlier in this thread that he disagrees with my tag on TECSHARE, he has been fair here in the way that I can “agree to disagree”.  Anyway, pugman, I would not hold out much hope for any kind of peace with TECSHARE when he himself reacts to others’ newfound amicability by trying to start a fight.

That statement wasn't directed at you.

I appreciate the clarification.  Sorry I scrolled straight past a post in almost illegibly bad English by an alleged/putative CH sock in the short span between this...

~

Demanding me to address some "points" sounds an awful lot like cryptohunter

...and this:

Hey cryptocunt, you try two hardy notttalky the inglich good.

I furthermore presumed that insults were directed at me, because I am the topic of this thread, wherein you have previously seen fit to call me a...

complete buffoon

...as part of your life advice to me, which I duly filed in “taken under advisement”. 🗑️

In the future, when cryptohunter has been mentioned, I will try to pay more attention to things that I would otherwise ignore, instead of drawing such inferences as seemed reasonable, but turned out to be in error.

I will edit this post with an appropriate correction (clearly marked as an edit).

To avoid letting this post run too long and unwieldy, I must leave other issues for later.

Another long winded screed with yet more accusations. Still no substantiation of your rating whatsoever from you or Vod, the accusation you are basing your own rating on. Just saying you trust Vod's word is not substantiation, even if it is enough to convince you personally.

[Vod]

You can't understand the substiation.  I have tried hard to explain it.  Everyone else can though, and that's what matters.

You can keep posting that my claims have no basis if you think being a parrot will work for you.  :/

[nullius]

You [TECSHARE] can't understand the substiation.  I have tried hard to explain it.  Everyone else can though, and that's what matters.

Boldface:  Thanks for the TL;DR of a part of what I just said. ;-)

You can keep posting that my claims have no basis if you think being a parrot will work for you.  :/

Here, let me update my post for you:

I wish I had your [nullius’] ability to ignore unethical idiots.   :/

I find it beneficial to the health. :/

You know the aphorism about “wrestling with a pig”; and...

TECSHARE races to the finish line of an Internet Argument!

[TECSHARE]

You can't understand the substiation.  I have tried hard to explain it.  Everyone else can though, and that's what matters.

You can keep posting that my claims have no basis if you think being a parrot will work for you.  :/

You [TECSHARE] can't understand the substiation.  I have tried hard to explain it.  Everyone else can though, and that's what matters.

Boldface:  Thanks for the TL;DR of a part of what I just said. ;-)

You can keep posting that my claims have no basis if you think being a parrot will work for you.  :/

Here, let me update my post for you:

I wish I had your [nullius’] ability to ignore unethical idiots.   :/

I find it beneficial to the health. :/

You know the aphorism about “wrestling with a pig”; and...

TECSHARE races to the finish line of an Internet Argument!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Ara_macao_-on_a_small_bicycle-8.jpg/640px-Ara_macao_-on_a_small_bicycle-8.jpg

Good to know you speak for everyone now Vod. You keep claiming you substantiated your claims, and I just simply don't understand it. Please quote your substantiation, surely you can manage that much right? You and Nullius just keep making claims, and he claims your claim is substantiation for his claim, except you never substantiated your claim.

This is your usual method of operation, as can be seen for pages and pages here. You just topic slide, claim you proved your accusations, make more accusations, get your buddies to parrot you, and repeat. You never substantiated ANY of your claims against me that you have negative rated me over.

[Vod]

Good to know you speak for everyone now Vod.

Why are you always so sarcastic?  You used to be somewhat witty.     

If you were not sarcastic then Nullius' trust is fine.  No need to continue with you.

Sarcasm is the recourse of the weak mind.

[TECSHARE]

Good to know you speak for everyone now Vod.

Why are you always so sarcastic?  You used to be somewhat witty.     

If you were not sarcastic then Nullius' trust is fine.  No need to continue with you.

Sarcasm is the recourse of the weak mind.

Thank you for proving conclusively neither of you have any substantiation to any of your negative trust ratings for me.

[DireWolfM14]

I furthermore presumed that insults were directed at me, because I am the topic of this thread, wherein you have previously seen fit to call me a...

complete buffoon

...as part of your life advice to me, which I duly filed in “taken under advisement”. 🗑️

The mistake is understandable, given my previous responses to your post.  Just to be clear I don't think you are cyrptohunter, and obviously your English is good.  As for any life advice, you weren't asking, and I wasn't exactly giving.  In the future I'll refrain from using a cutting tone in my response, and if you happen to find something that may be gleaned as "life advice," you're welcome to it.  

[TECSHARE]

I furthermore presumed that insults were directed at me, because I am the topic of this thread, wherein you have previously seen fit to call me a...

complete buffoon

...as part of your life advice to me, which I duly filed in “taken under advisement”. 🗑️

The mistake is understandable, given my previous responses to your post.  Just to be clear I don't think you are cyrptohunter, and obviously your English is good.  As for any life advice, you weren't asking, and I wasn't exactly giving.  In the future I'll refrain from using a cutting tone in my response, and if you happen to find something that may be gleaned as "life advice," you're welcome to it.

Hey DireWolfM14, where are those principles now eh? Maybe you can help. Where did Vod or Nullius ever substantiate any of their ratings against me? They keep saying they already did, but then have trouble quoting it, almost like it never happened.

[eddie13]

Vod or Nullius ... ratings against me

Literally nobody cares about their ratings man.. You can just lol @ them..

nullius just had to screw around and get himself removed from DT completely, even after I and others tried to advise him against it..
The others probably won't be removed over just this but everyone knows some/many of their ratings are trash, including these as further proof, and will just ignore it, if not bias them towards your favor after reading them..

[TECSHARE]

Vod or Nullius ... ratings against me

Literally nobody cares about their ratings man.. You can just lol @ them..

nullius just had to screw around and get himself removed from DT completely, even after I and others tried to advise him against it..
The others probably won't be removed over just this but everyone knows some/many of their ratings are trash, including these as further proof, and will just ignore it, if not bias them towards your favor after reading them..

You are missing the forest for the trees. One day that may very well happen, but by then my trust ratings will be filled with these kind of ratings because they all provide cover for each other, and uninitiated users will simply walk away from trades not willing to sort out this bullshit.

It is a well known psychology of mobs. Vod starts it off with his frivolous rating, then Lauda joins in, then marlboroza, then Nullius, then Vod again, all content in the knowledge it will be much harder for them to be held accountable in the noise. I realize this seems inconsequential and humorous to you, but you haven't spent over 8 years working to build a very trusted reputation around here. I have, and it has value, which is exactly why it is being used as leverage in an attempt to silence me.

If you have a reputation, they have something to exploit you with. If you have no reputation you are easily dismissed. This is the MO they rely on to perpetuate this abuse.