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Author Topic: Operation Shitcoin Cleanout and Clean Up Has Begun- Join the Revolution- Re-open  (Read 176332 times)
poornamelessme
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July 25, 2014, 04:43:06 AM
 #1761

Monero would be an odd choice to choose as a shitcoin, seeing as it actually does have a unique feature, anonymity via ring signatures. Cryptonote is sort of interesting -- https://cryptonote.org/

There is that bloat issue with ring signature coins, which I have no idea if they have found a solution for yet. But nah ... I wouldn't say it's a shitcoin. If Monero is a shitcoin, Jackpot coin is even lower... a lot lower.

I'll add I own no Monero at all (actually own what would be considered one of its competitors), so am not saying this to defend my holdings or anything like that. I just found it a peculiar coin to be mentioned in this thread.


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July 25, 2014, 05:00:33 AM
 #1762



Can someone help a noob out, why all the hate for the new alternate currencies?


~BCX~

All these coins are mostly total jokes just aimed at getting a certain set of people rich. Most don't add anything and I think they detract from what crypto currency can offer to the world. Then you get these jokes of coins and people think they're all crap. And due to the anonymous nature of the forum you probably get like the same 10 people just keep making new coins and trying to pump them. Everyone wants to be a frickin hero, just stick with a few alts and let's make them good (ones that are fair and actually contribute something to tech)
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July 25, 2014, 05:59:39 AM
 #1763

that highlights the point of my last comment here.. these guys here think they are "in the know".. they are not !
i know the guy meant well so i don't wanna rag on him and i agree with his sensible comment.
but sorry half of you are clueless noobs that know sweet fuck all about this stuff and YOU REALLY have no idea how fucked up this shit is !
you don't know who BCX is ? or BigVern is ? or.. or.. or..

Trust me you know squat guys and even what i know from one year is little but there is people perceptive to see the signs
and there is others with their head in the ground.. far too busy kissing ass and bag holder cheerleading making scammers rich.

it's possible to run scams in plain site people are so stupid.. i found one that is still going and i am saying nothing about it for a year now
because it amuses my balls off how super fucktard stupid you are all in crypto that you don't even see the most extreme cases of scam LOL
i want to see just how damn long it will go hahhaha

most of you guys know fuck all !
because most of you popped up in Nov or Dec 2013 and have since been nothing more than a fucking puppet a BTC-ATM machine for scammy douches.
screaming hater and troll at people like me who warned you ALL ALONG !

and later recently you guys finally clue in but so what you already royally fucked up the scene bad.. no turning back now.

You geniuses made Doge coin the no. 2 coin on earth.. yeah seriously give yourselves a big pat on the back, you earned it !
And that triggered one hell of a tsunami of cloning scammy bullshit !
and i fought against it pretty much by myself as 99% of the world ganged up on me non stop..

A perfect example is my old and long topic Why Doge Coin is Bad
The abuse i put up with on the topic from bag holders and their retarded excuses was brutal.. most of the topic is them attacking me personally.
Where did they go ?
They did a vanishing act like i said they would over and over.. and the coin tanked in value like i said it would to the day.. i called it and post a graph on the day.
And i wanna rub everyone's nose in it too LOL

*Most of you all made dumb excuses for dumb shit and now you can deal with the dumb consequences.
I told you so and fuck you and kiss my ass... i am the smart one.. deal with it.  Cool

WARNING:
It's been a while since BitcoinExpress has fed his dark passenger !

FUD first & ask questions later™
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July 25, 2014, 07:48:22 AM
Last edit: July 25, 2014, 11:57:05 PM by fluffypony
 #1764

I would like to know why bother making Monero at all ?
wasn't 999 coins enough ?
did we really need a fork of Cryptonote ? (whatever the fuck that is) lol

An excellent question!

Implementing ring signatures in Bitcoin is possible, but it would also be extremely clunky. Combining stealth addresses + ring signatures in Bitcoin would not only require a soft fork (possibly a hard fork if you're rejecting tx's on broadcast), but also seems somewhat incompatible with Bitcoin's current positioning and stated goals. It is unlikely this functionality will ever be added to Bitcoin. Even if it was added to Bitcoin, the reality is that an output that used a ring signature group of >1 would potentially be compromised when used as an input on a transaction with a ring signature group of 0, and this would invalidate the entire effort.

Thus, it has to be done outside of Bitcoin. So, then, the question becomes: do you fork Bitcoin and add stealth addresses and ring signatures? You could, of course, do that. The problem you'd face is that you'd forever be chasing your tail trying to merge upstream changes to implement bugfixes and features, some of which are incongruent with the design goals of a private, untraceable cryptocurrency. You'd constantly be trying to shoe-horn functionality in (SPV-style thin clients, for instance), and chances are you'd end up doing more harm than good and unwittingly compromising users.

Therefore, knowing that it can't or won't be done inside Bitcoin, and forking Bitcoin is a pretty bad idea, the academics behind the CryptoNote protocol were faced with an interesting prospect. "What else is potentially deficient with Bitcoin?" I can imagine them asking. They set out to create an alternative cryptocurrency that had the stated aims of privacy and untraceability, whilst fixing other parts of Bitcoin they thought could do with improvement. For instance, they theorised and then built a PoW that reduced the performance gap between CPUs, GPUs, and ASICs. They also created an emission schedule that is constantly and slightly decreasing rather than halving at a particular point. All of these improvements, along with very detailed mathematics for the private and untraceable transactions, are detailed in the CryptoNote whitepaper: https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf. If you are academically inclined, you may prefer to look at the raw annotations our mathematicians and cryptographers created during their peer review: http://monero.cc/downloads/whitepaper_annotated.pdf and follow that up by reading one of our mathematician's review of the whitepaper: http://monero.cc/downloads/whitepaper_review.pdf

As to why Monero, specifically, exists: the reference code for CryptoNote was originally delivered in the form of a cryptocurrency called Bytecoin (not the Bytecoin you may be familiar with, a "new" one). Unfortunately for the CryptoNote developers, when this was made available publicly in March of this year, 82% of the coins had already been mined under the guise of it being launched "on the dark web" 2 years ago (which is disputed by some people in the know). Given the nature of this ninja mine / instamine / premine / whatever situation, thankful_for_today took it upon himself to fork this CryptoNote reference code and create Monero. He has subsequently left and things have blossomed, leaving us where we are today: a 7 member core team, as well as a whole host of contributors. There is no premine or instamine with Monero, we are completely supported by donations.

Monero has since diverged from the reference code, and we are constantly and continually improving the codebase. It is the first cryptocurrency that I am aware of that uses an Electrum-style, 24-word, mnemonic seed, making backups as simple as writing down that seed when you first create your wallet. The excellent design decision to keep the daemon separate from the wallet has allowed us to maintain a CLI wallet (simplewallet) as well as a wallet specifically designed for automation / merchant systems / exchanges (rpcwallet). Multiple wallets can be run on the same machine, with only one daemon keeping in sync with the network. We are completely unencumbered by Bitcoin's monolithic design and historicity, which means we can reinvent things and improve on things as and when it is possible.

That is why we bother making and continuing to make Monero. And that is why we won't be "vanishing" regardless of Monero's valuation - price is irrelevant to our continued ability to improve Monero, because we're out to build something useful and useable. If these are not a "damn good reasons" I don't know what is.

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July 25, 2014, 10:53:19 AM
 #1765



Can someone help a noob out, why all the hate for the new alternate currencies?


~BCX~
Because we noobs don't make money on launches and hate when others do. When we make money on launches, we shut it.
You noob has knowledge, me noob has information. When 2 noobs get along, rest of noobs hate.

Others hate because of competition.

what a disgrace to the english language, friend.

we hate you because you make shitcoins as a business model. you make them and promote them. you make shit. you are shit.

please go get a real job and leave us alone forever.

thank you.

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July 25, 2014, 11:08:27 AM
 #1766


Yeah I have been out of the US for the past few months and busy as hell. I've had a few people PM about looking at another shitcoin called Monero so I did. It took me me less than two hours to find a really big hole. When are devs going to learn that rapid retarget is an open invitation to an exploit? I'm going to drop a herd or two it till I figure what I am going to do.


Have you done any previous research on the coin and can you please share with us why do you consider monero a shitcoin? There are 1000 coins and you picked this one? Must be pretty shitty if people actually message you about it. You write you spend 2 hours looking at the code, so I presume you have done also some research about the coin and can share facts you discovered that make this coin a shit worth destroying. Those people messaging you must have given some reasons why it is shit, right? Please share it.
I am looking at the OP and criteria which makes a coin a shitcoin and I cannot find a good reason for monero to be one.

Maybe you haven't realized yet that bitcoin went the way of being a globally recognized currency that is now in the process of being regulated by governments. A pseudo anonymous currency that as I am aware WILL NOT take the path of increasing the anonymity of its users. Is this not correct? Hence I see a good reason for an innovation in this field, a new type of currency for those that value anonymity and want to go where bitcoin will never be willing to go ( - which is completely alright with me). There is a huge market for something that stays in the hands of people without governments looking over their shoulder... and people are looking to solve this issue in various ways. It is a hard nut to crack and even monero might not be the ideal coin for staying truly hidden against people from secret agencies having an immense power to monitor these things - similarly to TOR, which is vulnerable to eavesdropping if you are clever and have big bucks to spend. Let the market operate and drive innovation that is i believe of high importance as a tool against totalitarian authorities. I really believe anonymity is crucial and we are running out of time to get it up and running. Bitcoin mixers are alright for now, but how long can we expect them to operate when government really steps in?

I hope this whole thread is not just another part of some pump and dump scheme destroying coins to buy cheap or something... but tries to provide some greater good for us all.
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July 25, 2014, 11:32:44 AM
 #1767

Like BCX, when I was 2 hours into analyzing Monero, I also thought it was full of holes.  I also thought so 2 days in.
Having looked further over the last few months, bought a bit, run the miners and experimented with it a bit more, I found that increasingly I am liking the solutions to what initially appeared as problems.

The highly dynamic difficulty retarget problem / fast retargeting.  The problem this is meant to solve can be a major issue for alt coins due to the prevalence of multipools which switch coins swiftly with a lot of hash power.  When adding a little bit of intention, these can leave a dynamic retargeter high and dry with high difficulty and insufficient mining to achieve a block within a reasonable amount of time.  The Cryptonote solution is fairly simple and elegant.  That said, it may be improvable, and I await the critique with some eagerness.

More than once though, when looking at Monero I thought "Oh they messed up, they have this problem" only to later see that it wasn't one.

XMR/Monero is also a CPU coin by design.  This design is likely to keep it decentralized for a good long while, and further reduces the risk presented by the dynamic difficulty re-targeting.

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July 25, 2014, 11:35:31 AM
 #1768

Muddafudda seems pretty lazy, since he started this thread around 500 more shitcoins appeared. What the hell is he doing?
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July 25, 2014, 12:33:42 PM
 #1769

Muddafudda seems pretty lazy, since he started this thread around 500 more shitcoins appeared. What the hell is he doing?

NEWS FLASH !

This war on shitcoin is as fake as BitcoinEXpress and his fake war on the pathological liars and cheats we know as Cryptsy.

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July 25, 2014, 12:54:17 PM
 #1770

Majority of people are naive or do not care about Dark instamine because price goes up and hype is crazy high.
Same situation with Dreamcoin. All hail about its  zerocoin implementation possibility and price skyrockets. I have reason to believe that zerocoin will not be fully implemented in that coin any time soon. So im watching that topic with great interest. Soon those teenages will start to turn against eachother and, dev probalby abandons the coin like he did with hes previous coins and all will end up worse than blackcoin did.
Serious and more compicated coins which have great devs, suffer under lack of interest.
HBN, NOVA, WDC and couple of others. All have devs or dev team, who are extremely capable. MYR as well, but luckily MYR gets at least some attention.
My hope is that those coins which have capable devs will not abandon their work and all those X11 and some Scrypt junk coins will soon be forgotten.

CMON ! NVC and that stinky craptsy admin posing as a hobocoin ?

How is HBN's pre-ANN instamine treating you and/or your friends ?

Don't forget to add the crazy high PoS interest !

Block 1 - 2013-07-24 04:36:29 UTC
http://hbn.blockx.info/block/0000031f60f7e757eae4ea0af682c9330d1e0dcb9354e98e2eaf3a3884730d52

Block 100 - 2013-07-24 04:42:12 UTC
http://hbn.blockx.info/block/0000044a8e81eb2dcb0501c3bc6d02dac2859398c9537bb716cfc89fbcc0706b

Block 1000 - 2013-07-24 05:19:02 UTC
http://hbn.blockx.info/block/00000011033940a5e63d741171e54fb44ed8ddf9494a3f209f56f56e1a60e449

Block 3000 - 2013-07-24 17:26:31 UTC
http://hbn.blockx.info/block/00000002d9bb92b5aa5d492607874efe37a0a31bb67d515287c3a76346017ea3

3000 blocks... 12 hours ... lol !

Is this the original ANN, dated Sept 27/2014, for HBN ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303749.0

Lets see you guy take down this one !

Or.. how about IFC ? 42 ?

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July 25, 2014, 03:03:36 PM
 #1771



Can someone help a noob out, why all the hate for the new alternate currencies?


~BCX~

Haven't seen you in the alts section in a while hows Aura coin doing? Grin  I'm guessing Spoetnik and his boys hate for alts are fueled by their failure to launch shit coins and capitalize on the alt market so now they've basically gone the route of going full retard.

Yeah I have been out of the US for the past few months and busy as hell. I've had a few people PM about looking at another shitcoin called Monero so I did. It took me me less than two hours to find a really big hole. When are devs going to learn that rapid retarget is an open invitation to an exploit? I'm going to drop a herd or two it till I figure what I am going to do.

It all really depends on what Cryptsy does with it.


~BCX~

Monero has seen backing from some "trusted" (high green) people on the forums so I'm curious to see were this gos. Do you plan on forking Monero like you did with Aur?

Yes, bitcointalk doesn't give a shit if criminal activities are being planned and executed vs a "shitcoin", but it will be a different story in case of monero. It won't end well. And bcx knows this, and won't do shit.
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July 25, 2014, 03:05:42 PM
 #1772

CryptoNote / Monero
Bitcoin is not anonymous, but with some 'best practices' it can have a good measure of privacy making it difficult to penetrate.
Monero is also not anonymous, but what it does is automates those best practices into the protocol making them the default transaction type.  It makes the best security practices of using Bitcoin into all transactions using Monero.  It also goes a bit further and makes this all pretty easy for the users to not screw up, making these best practices so simple and easy that it could be delegated to a low level employee at a corporation.

"Corporation?  I thought all this privacy was so illegal things could be done?"  Maybe someone thinks that, but a much bigger untapped market is the corporate use for internal multinational settlement.  Bitcoin would be great for this, but corporate competitors would be able to see the transactions and know what their competition is doing when they send funds from division A in Singapore to division B in India.  The competitor sees this in the block chain and maybe gets involved in India as well.  So the corporation wouldn't use it for that purpose without doing all the complicated privacy things.  Doing that with Bitcoin is too hard for them to delegate to people all over the world.  Monero solves this problem.

This is a market 1000x as large as all your dark market illicit trading.  It takes what would otherwise be hard, to the point of untenable, and makes it easy and viable.  This opens a new frontier in how crypto currencies may be safely used, and brings some of the larger interests to our side of the table rather than being disinterested or opposed to our ideas.

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July 25, 2014, 03:09:09 PM
 #1773

Yes, bitcointalk doesn't give a shit if criminal activities are being planned and executed vs a "shitcoin", but it will be a different story in case of monero. It won't end well. And bcx knows this, and won't do shit.


I can't speak to what bitcointalk cares about or not.
But accurate criticism is always welcome.  So I'd encourage BCX to bring it on.

When there is a disagreement, that is a good thing.  A reasoned argument is welcomed.  It means that at least one of us is going to learn something.  On days where I teach someone something that is a good day, but days that I learn something are the best.  I am hoping for a very good day from this.

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July 25, 2014, 03:09:21 PM
 #1774

CryptoNote / Monero
Bitcoin is not anonymous, but with some 'best practices' it can have a good measure of privacy making it difficult to penetrate.
Monero is also not anonymous, but what it does is automates those best practices into the protocol making them the default transaction type.

Wait wait... Can you do a ring signature manually with Bitcoin ??
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July 25, 2014, 03:13:29 PM
 #1775

CryptoNote / Monero
Bitcoin is not anonymous, but with some 'best practices' it can have a good measure of privacy making it difficult to penetrate.
Monero is also not anonymous, but what it does is automates those best practices into the protocol making them the default transaction type.

Wait wait... Can you do a ring signature manually with Bitcoin ??


Yes.  It takes a lot of work, ad hoc multisig wallet creations.  Doing it multiparty even worse as then it takes OOB comms and trusts.  Total PITA.

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July 25, 2014, 03:23:20 PM
 #1776

CryptoNote / Monero
Bitcoin is not anonymous, but with some 'best practices' it can have a good measure of privacy making it difficult to penetrate.
Monero is also not anonymous, but what it does is automates those best practices into the protocol making them the default transaction type.

Wait wait... Can you do a ring signature manually with Bitcoin ??


Yes.  It takes a lot of work, ad hoc multisig wallet creations.  Doing it multiparty even worse as then it takes OOB comms and trusts.  Total PITA.
Do you have source for that?
It seems to me that you can maybe make one ring signature with super complex ad hoc wallet creation, but that you cannot have in the ring some previous inputs of the blockchain.

There is also another great post of aminorex yesterday, for all those who don't grasp the importance of privacy for everything other than black markets:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624223.msg7998097#msg7998097

I'm looking forward to read more as to why BCX calls monero a shit coin, because for the moment this is pretty much baseless and thrown out there "just like that". Personally, this is the first time I invest in an "alt"coin. I'm very strongly irritated/against altshits usually. But I'm almost equally irritated by people who talk shit without reseaching a minimum a priori.

EDIT: Just reading your post above. This looks already a bit more backed up. Smiley

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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July 25, 2014, 03:36:35 PM
 #1777



Nice to see BCX back stateside. Hope that we can count on your rigorous QA testing in the coming weeks.


I never said I was back stateside just yet but I do have more time for the next week as one my biggest partners is off playing Cowboys & Indians Ukrainians and Russians. I have dropped quite a bit of hashes on this over the past 24 hours.

 
It is showing signs of promise but I am still in evaluation mode and in any case Bitjohn will determine the next course of action.



~BCX~

My mistake, just exuberant to see activity here on your part. Big fan of your work. Grin


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BUY  BACK
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[BTC]
d3stroy
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July 25, 2014, 03:37:56 PM
 #1778

Interesting thread!

I'm going to stay here to help if i can  Wink
Great work, guys!
binaryFate
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July 25, 2014, 03:38:05 PM
 #1779

I'm looking forward to read more as to why BCX calls monero a shit coin, because for the moment this is pretty much baseless and thrown out there "just like that". Personally, this is the first time I invest in an "alt"coin. I'm very strongly irritated/against altshits usually. But I'm almost equally irritated by people who talk shit without reseaching a minimum a priori.

I never said it was a shitcoin, I said I had multiple PM's from people asking me to look at a shitcoin called Monero. At the moment I haven't decided yet but it might have some promise. It does however have some very fundamental flaws that will need to be addressed if it is to survive.

True. Apologize then.


2) Bloat - currently anyone that wanted to spend a few BTC and has mid level developer skills could bring MRO to a grinding halt today. Simply increasing transactions four times combined with doubling the hash rate, something that will definitely happen with increased adoption will bring the chain to a halt. Do the math, in one year you will be looking at at a theoretical 75-100GB block chain. A solution needs to be implemented. Several are discussed on this forum over the past years.

* Can you explain why doubling the hash rate would have an effect on the blockchain size or required bandwidth? I don't see why.

* The math are simple, but can you share your initial assumptions? In particuliar, did you take the current amount of data going into the blockchain, multiplied by 4? Because a large part of the current blockhain size increase is due to the blocks (for instance an empty block still takes size), and if you had 4 times more transactions that does not equates to 4 time the data that currently goes into the BC.

* The blockchain will be (and grow) most likely larger than bitcoin one (for the same usage), by a linear factor. Probably something like 5~20 times. Many people don't think it's a problem since it's the price to pay for anonymity. Is this range of numbers not acceptable for you?

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
drawingthemoon
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July 25, 2014, 03:54:14 PM
 #1780

So this impacts all CN coins? Interested to know if it impacts BBR too. BBR's only small problem is launch a few days after BitMonero. Well that and the huge Polo pump/scam going on in order to suck in new investors. Apparently the admins of the exchange are openly talking about their orders and positions. Huge buy walls set up by the usual suspects with insider help and what not.

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