Hello,
Maybe its more appropriate for scam accusation thread but since I still think they are solvent just do not want to complete promised for some reason thread is in reputation thread.
I have been posting in few occasions in BitDice's official thread but posts were buried by signature campaign members and I did not get any answer expect generic answers.
In 2017 BitDice divested its investors and organized very promising ICO where they collected over 10.000.000$ (ten million dollars) with big promises and very invasive marketing including promoted posts on Steemit, paid press releases regarding their ICO on various crypto-related news sites including Cointelegraph and CoinDesk and they also were very active on Twitter, Bitcointalk and other chat platforms including Telegram.
Shortly after ICO concluded investors received dividends and slowly traffic started decreasing and only few players continued to play and profit soon became expense where investors are paying high server rent and legal fees over 70k$ per quarter those costs weren't never mentioned in white paper.
For three years after ICO tokens lost almost 90% in value.
Here is screenshot of their road map as advertised in ICO:
I compiled what is done in the list below:
- No New Slot Providers
- No Live Games
- No Smart Contracts
- No Roulette
- No Baccart
- No Bitdice Own Games
- No Texas Holdem Poker
Now they didn't complete most of their promises and site looks and works same as it was before ICO:
Web Archive June 02-2017
https://web.archive.org/web/20190709112651/https://www.bitdice.me/] Web Archive December 19-2019
As you can see site is identical two and half years later except that they had Crypto Gambling Foundation seal of approval [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1700658.msg53357056#msg53357056] even if they were still running games that aren't provably fair and most likely will never be.
Token performance according to CMC is not available anymore [https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitdice/] don't know real reason but may be that tokens aren't available to trade on the second market.
I have print screen from January 2020
Whitepaper can be downloaded from TheLazyTokenInvestor [http://www.thelazycryptoinvestor.com/docs/bitdice_whitepaper.pdf]
Data I mention above is still available on TLTI on this link
http://www.thelazycryptoinvestor.com/dividend-tokens/bitdice/Financial Forecast from Whitepaper:
TLDR how it looks on the graph from TLTI
Official reports and justifications can be found at
https://medium.com/@BitDiceQuotes extracted from BitDice official thread:
Any plans to add any new slots to the site? The current selection is looking super dated, and Satoshi's Secret is definitely needing a revamp.
Also, what games are you guys currently working on?
Is there some kind of community vote where we can help choose which game is added next?
Used to use Bitdice a few months ago but got bored of the selection and moved to newer platforms. Would like to give it a spin again though if there's anything new?
Where’s the quarterly report so we can read the latest lies about how our expenses have doubled and our revenues fallen to a pittance?
The token is down largely because there are no exchanges and the communication sucks.
Not to mention the misappropriation of our funds going towards things we never agreed to in the white paper like two years of operating costs with no milestones met and lawyers being paid to hide the perp’s identity behind paper offshore fortresses.
To add to the discussion:
1. The token entitles only in profit participation. The invested assets no longer belong to the token owners. (which is a stark shift compared to earlier investements where you could redeem your money).
2. In the whitepaper they state that the money invested was to be used for:
"25% of the funds will be kept in vault as reserve. At BitDice’s discretion and dependent on market conditions, some portion of reserves can be used to buy out tokens on the secondary market to reduce public float"
"10% of the funds will be used for promotion and marketing purposes."
"25% of the funds will be used by BitDice Casino to fund capital expenditures related to platform development and business expansion. It will primarily consist of:
- Compensating the development team for enhancing BitDice functionality, applying new technology and integrating gambling providers into the platform.
- Developing its own unique and provably fair games on top of the old ones.
- Acquiring necessary licenses to be able to operate with fiat currencies as a traditional gambling entity across as many regions as possible.
- Paying legal fees to bring the whole business structure into full compliance with regulatory framework.
"40% of the funds will be stored as the casino’s house bankroll to pay out winning bets and bonuses to the players on the whole array of games presented"
3. Now, if you take a look at their quarterly reports you can read things like:
"Higher expenditures have been related to business expansion activities such as finalizing integration of fiat payment systems, expanding to new markets of Southeast Asia, and strengthening presence in social media."
"The majority of the cost was attributed to team salaries and legal fees associated with ongoing process of obtaining a license:"
The result:
These expenditures reduce the distributable profit quite significantly. Which means that token holders (at least those participating in the ICO) pay twice. Once for the token itself and then via the reduced profit.
And just to reiterate: In the whitepaper/prospectus they clearly calculated the dividend with 70% of the profits. There's no mention of running costs.
I can live with the abysmal performance of bitdice, but I don't like getting ripped off.
Either they pay the above mentioned expense from the ICO proceeding and fully distribute the profits. Or they pay all expenditures from the net profits, but in turn treat the tokens like shares in the company.
The last point is vitally important in the case of closing the company. Let's assume in 2 years the team decides that the company wasn't profitable anymore and that they want to close it. The tokens would be worthless at that point, although the assets from the ICO are mainly still there, probably beeing distributed among the team.
One might even say that this creates an incentive to running the company into the ground...
Its serious they are not operating with their own money they are operating with investor money token market cap dropped from 10$ million to 2$ million and under 5% promises from 2017 are completed.
Nobody would complain if they were investing their own money in their own business.
You think everything is fine beacuse they pay out when someone win and you get money for your signature
If you have the money and want, then you can let develop a new casino within 3 months.
The delivery of only 5% of the promised usage of the invested money after 2 years is clearly the criminal offense of investment fraud!
Curious why investors do not complain that they lost 80% of its investment?
Maybe the numbers of collected funds are faked to attrack investors?
Very bad casinos, ...
What I can tell is that all sites will follow the same path (90%-100% lost of value) if decided to call for an ICO pledged to USD value with a token and then get it listed on some random exchanges, it is likely that the coin/token value will drop immediately, mainly because of the owner will likely dump the remaining of his unsold token to the public via these random exchanges. It only legit if any how there is an exact model of real life IPO/ Public offering to be carried over and apply to crypto and it denomination/minium price will alway be valuated against BTC, as well as there will aways be a full buy back commitment after a certain period of time (at least any investor can have his stake buy back fully at wish with original committed price).
It is interesting to see people who will still support the website after all that is done. We are talking about people who had thousands of bitcoin, millions of dollars and yet we are still talking about "can't implement new things to outdated website".
I am sorry but with that kind of money you can hire the best developers around the globe for months on out until they finish the websites new version and on top of that add insane amount of games and features, we are not talking about couple thousand dollars here, we are talking about millions of dollars here, they have more than enough money to continue to work like that.
Hopefully, either they will realize they did a mistake by not doing anything so far and quickly change some stuff, or people at least will realize that the team doesn't have best of intentions.
Why is the 365/JAZ license invalid?
They have used Cryptogambling Foundation seal for some time while some of their games weren't provably fair and they were restricted from CGF to use it :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5224823.0
