'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"'

[nutildah]

These ring wing extremist groups haven't been labeled because they didn't act in a coordinated fashion like Antifa has.

No right wing groups have been designated as terror groups because there is no legal context in which to do so, just like with Antifa. That's the point you're missing. Anybody can "label" anybody anything and it doesn't necessarily have an effect on anything. It's just rhetoric, and you bought in to Trump's rhetoric part and parcel.

You guys can argue semantics all day long but at the end of the day the assertion that "Trump has designated Antifa a terrorist organization" remains incorrect.

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[Gyfts]

That's the point you're missing. Anybody can "label" anybody anything and it doesn't necessarily have an effect on anything. It's just rhetoric, and you bought in to Trump's rhetoric part and parcel.

I didn't say it had an effect on anything, just that Trump had a point with his intent to designate Antifa as a terrorist group, because that's how they behave. I conceded your point about how no governmental body recognizes Antifa as a terrorist group so obviously there isn't an effect of labeling it as so. But, I can assure you Trump was not the one that convinced me Antifa engages in terrorist behavior, it would be the numerous videos of groups of people all dressed in black that set buildings and debris on fire while assaulting federal law enforcement officers.

[Spendulus]

....First of all, the report data ends at the end of May. It doesn't take into account anything that happened in June or July. Second of all, it only takes into account "terrorist attacks and plots by perpetrator organization" -- not ALL "left wing violence." ....

Redefining the terms to arrive at a pre determined conclusion is just more of the same propaganda.

But hey, I'll grant you that his report by chance could have been completed and posted in the standard dis-information channels four microseconds before the Antifa violence and destruction commenced. However by now, given what we've all experienced, CSIS should have updated it to align with reality. They have not.

Hence, they are not even in the real world with their report and it truly does not merit rebuttal with research. You're well past historical Pravda level of disinformation here...

[nutildah]

....First of all, the report data ends at the end of May. It doesn't take into account anything that happened in June or July. Second of all, it only takes into account "terrorist attacks and plots by perpetrator organization" -- not ALL "left wing violence." ....

Redefining the terms to arrive at a pre determined conclusion is just more of the same propaganda.

But hey, I'll grant you that his report by chance could have been completed and posted in the standard dis-information channels four microseconds before the Antifa violence and destruction commenced. However by now, given what we've all experienced, CSIS should have updated it to align with reality. They have not.

Hence, they are not even in the real world with their report and it truly does not merit rebuttal with research. You're well past historical Pravda level of disinformation here...

Nobody is "redefining terms" except for you, and none of anything you've said so far changes the fact that right wing extremists kill more people each year than Antifa. It remains incredibly lazy to simply dismiss the report as being communist propaganda because it didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. It's a highly unsophisticated knee-jerk reaction.

[Barnabe]

....First of all, the report data ends at the end of May. It doesn't take into account anything that happened in June or July. Second of all, it only takes into account "terrorist attacks and plots by perpetrator organization" -- not ALL "left wing violence." ....

Redefining the terms to arrive at a pre determined conclusion is just more of the same propaganda.

But hey, I'll grant you that his report by chance could have been completed and posted in the standard dis-information channels four microseconds before the Antifa violence and destruction commenced. However by now, given what we've all experienced, CSIS should have updated it to align with reality. They have not.

Hence, they are not even in the real world with their report and it truly does not merit rebuttal with research. You're well past historical Pravda level of disinformation here...

Nobody is "redefining terms" except for you, and none of anything you've said so far changes the fact that right wing extremists kill more people each year than Antifa. It remains incredibly lazy to simply dismiss the report as being communist propaganda because it didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. It's a highly unsophisticated knee-jerk reaction.

Tolerate and approve what antifa does just because right wing extremists are worst is not a good reason.

[nutildah]

Tolerate and approve what antifa does just because right wing extremists are worst is not a good reason.

You already asked me about this and I already answered that I don't approve of what Antifa does. C'mon man. I know you're back in town to collect some of that sweet Bitvest payout but try to demonstrate a little more reading comprehension.

[Spendulus]

...

Nobody is "redefining terms" except for you, and none of anything you've said so far changes the fact that right wing extremists kill more people each year than Antifa. It remains incredibly lazy to simply dismiss the report as being communist propaganda because it didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. It's a highly unsophisticated knee-jerk reaction.

As I already said, I'm good with their doing a rewrite to incorporate events since May. In the absence of that, the reports simply not in reality, so there's no reason to attempt to opinionated further. It's really that simple.

Why don't you email them and point out this problem? I'm sure you can agree it's non trivial. Unless you are purposely attempting to trivialize the thousands of people injured and some killed in these riots, and the billions of dollars of property damage. But I didn't get that impression.

[nutildah]

As I already said, I'm good with their doing a rewrite to incorporate events since May. In the absence of that, the reports simply not in reality, so there's no reason to attempt to opinionated further. It's really that simple.

Why don't you email them and point out this problem? I'm sure you can agree it's non trivial. Unless you are purposely attempting to trivialize the thousands of people injured and some killed in these riots, and the billions of dollars of property damage. But I didn't get that impression.

Its "simply not in reality," but you can't explain why.

The report actually describes Antifa in great detail -- did you not see that part? To hate on an article because it is outdated is also lame. Maybe after 2020 has concluded, the gray line will be above the blue line, who knows:



"Thousands of people injured and some killed"... "billions of dollars of property damage"... do you have a source for these figures or did they just sound right?

[TECSHARE]

As I already said, I'm good with their doing a rewrite to incorporate events since May. In the absence of that, the reports simply not in reality, so there's no reason to attempt to opinionated further. It's really that simple.

Why don't you email them and point out this problem? I'm sure you can agree it's non trivial. Unless you are purposely attempting to trivialize the thousands of people injured and some killed in these riots, and the billions of dollars of property damage. But I didn't get that impression.

Its "simply not in reality," but you can't explain why.

The report actually describes Antifa in great detail -- did you not see that part? To hate on an article because it is outdated is also lame. Maybe after 2020 has concluded, the gray line will be above the blue line, who knows:

[img width =600]https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg[/img]

"Thousands of people injured and some killed"... "billions of dollars of property damage"... do you have a source for these figures or did they just sound right?

This is what you call great detail? Two paragraphs in about 20 pages focused on the right wing from this "supposedly non-partisan" source.


"In addition, the far-left includes Antifa, which is a contraction of the phrase “anti-fascist.” It refers to a decentralized network of far-left militants that oppose what they believe are fascist, racist, or otherwise right-wing extremists. While some consider Antifa a sub-set of anarchists, adherents frequently blend anarchist and communist views. One of the most common symbols used by Antifa combines the red flag of the 1917 Russian Revolution and the black flag of nineteenth-century anarchists. Antifa groups frequently conduct counter- protests to disrupt far-right gatherings and rallies. They often organize in black blocs (ad hoc gatherings of individuals that wear black clothing, ski masks, scarves, sunglasses, and other material to conceal their faces), use improvised explosive devices and other homemade weapons, and resort to vandalism. In addition, Antifa members organize their activities through social media, encrypted peer-to-peer networks, and encrypted messaging services such as Signal.

Antifa groups have been increasingly active in protests and rallies over the past few years, especially ones that include far-right participants.41 In June 2016, for example, Antifa and other protestors confronted a neo-Nazi rally in Sacramento, CA, where at least five people were stabbed. In February, March, and April 2017, Antifa members attacked alt-right demonstrators at the University of California, Berkeley, using bricks, pipes, hammers, and homemade incendiary devices.42 In July 2019, William Van Spronsen, a self-proclaimed Antifa, attempted to bomb the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention facility in Tacoma, Washington, using a propane tank but was killed by police.43"




I mean they can't even help but bring up the right even when talking about ANTIFA! Detailed and non-partisan my ass.

As far as "out of date" articles, you are a fucking retard as usual. That  "out of date" article proves they were classified as terrorists by government organizations years ago, but you keep pretending it is "out of date" so you don't have to admit you were wrong, and you are willfully and publicly supporting violent murdering terrorists because you agree with their ideology.

Yes, easily thousands of people were injured during these recent riots often minimized as "protest". Many were killed, and yes in fact billions in  property damage was done. Maybe you were too busy sucking the tiny boil covered cock on Marx's rotting corpse to notice all of this.

[Spendulus]

As I already said, I'm good with their doing a rewrite to incorporate events since May. In the absence of that, the reports simply not in reality, so there's no reason to attempt to opinionated further. It's really that simple.

Why don't you email them and point out this problem? I'm sure you can agree it's non trivial. Unless you are purposely attempting to trivialize the thousands of people injured and some killed in these riots, and the billions of dollars of property damage. But I didn't get that impression.

Its "simply not in reality," but you can't explain why.

The report actually describes Antifa in great detail -- did you not see that part? To hate on an article because it is outdated is also lame. Maybe after 2020 has concluded, the gray line will be above the blue line, who knows:....

At 14,000 arrested, the current series of riots are likely the worst in US history. To minimize and literally gloss over such is delusional.

As of 7-8, there had been 23 killed in these riots.

 https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/08/23-people-died-protests-looting-violence-george-floyd-death/

Or take Wikipedia, which indicates 28 have died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests

[suchmoon]

This whole section of the forum is a right wing cuckfest.

I forget why I even bothered.

I think that's incorrect. Everyone who's not TECSHARE is a leftist.

[sirazimuth]

This whole section of the forum is a right wing cuckfest.

I forget why I even bothered.

I think that's incorrect. Everyone who's not TECSHARE is a leftist.

Yeah but we are all fucking retards too busy sucking boils on Marx’s dead body’s little penis to notice....

[TECSHARE]

This whole section of the forum is a right wing cuckfest.

I forget why I even bothered.

I think that's incorrect. Everyone who's not TECSHARE is a leftist.

I considered myself a leftist. You know what is funny, my ideals didn't really change that much, but one day I looked around and saw there was nothing liberal about the left any more.

As far as "out of date" articles, you are a fucking retard as usual. That  "out of date" article proves they were classified as terrorists by government organizations years ago, but you keep pretending it is "out of date" so you don't have to admit you were wrong, and you are willfully and publicly supporting violent murdering terrorists because you agree with their ideology.

You glossed right over the fact that the government never classified them as terrorists and that your Washington Examiner article was incorrect. That's what I was pointing out to you. Re-read what I wrote, and then read what the New Jersey Homeland Security Office actually said.

As of 7-8, there had been 23 killed in these riots.

 https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/08/23-people-died-protests-looting-violence-george-floyd-death/

Or take Wikipedia, which indicates 28 have died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests

OK, that's a good start. So how many of those deaths were caused by Antifa, or does everybody who ever participated or somehow got caught up in the protest just fall under the umbrella of Antifa? One of the people in the list was shot by a cop, and another was shot by a store owner. Are they Antifa too?

Ultimately, the both of you are trying way too hard to simplify the issue so you don't have to look beyond the surface, and then you equate my attempts to peel back the surface as siding with terrorism (or communism I guess).

In short:

You're lame.

This is lame.

This whole section of the forum is a right wing cuckfest.

I forget why I even bothered.

" Anarchist Extremists: Antifa
June 12, 2017 · Domestic Terrorism"

https://archive.is/vS2Zx

Weird how this type of stuff always seems to get memory holed isn't it?

We might ask you exactly the same question about who qualifies for "right wing" extremism. Of course standards only apply to your opponents, you are free to manipulate the numbers with various postmodernist relativist definitions that for example put classic liberals into the far right category along with the National Socialist German Worker's Party, and hell why not throw Mao Zedong in there, because everything right is wrong and everything left is right.

Your ideology subsists on small minds being buffer overloaded like a game of Tic Tac Toe in the movie War Games. Just subvert, invert, redefine, rebrand, turn upside down, inside out anything and everything until all frame of reference is lost. Then at the peak of this distraction you sell your lies. Lies that people act in a manner against their own self interest as a result of, the whole while believing the fairy tale they are serving the "greater good". In reality they are just the "useful idiots", the people who will be used as canon fodder to fight these ideological wars of pathological divergence from reality. Some how the designers of this have convinced you that you are part of the club rather than the fodder in this picture. I just want to remind you that the first ones to die in leftist revolutions are always the leftist revolutionaries, by the hand of their own people.

You enjoy attempting to manufacture and dance around in the "nuance" of the subject and be as postmodernist relativist as you want to be. You are openly advocating for and supporting terrorists organizations, groups, and activities. If the open discussion bothers you so much you are free to return to FaceFuck, Twatter, and Googlag where the content will be censored to your particular political tastes and preserve your illusion of being the majority by making sure no right wing extremist cucks are there to disagree with you.

[TwitchySeal]

This whole section of the forum is a right wing cuckfest.

I forget why I even bothered.

I think that's incorrect. Everyone who's not TECSHARE is a leftist.

I considered myself a leftist. You know what is funny, my ideals didn't really change that much, but one day I looked around and saw there was nothing liberal about the left any more.

Were you an anti-vaxer climate change denying nationalist obsessed with conspiracy theories back then?

[TECSHARE]

Were you an anti-vaxer climate change denying nationalist obsessed with conspiracy theories back then?

When did you stop beating your wife?

[Spendulus]

As far as "out of date" articles, you are a fucking retard as usual. That  "out of date" article proves they were classified as terrorists by government organizations years ago, but you keep pretending it is "out of date" so you don't have to admit you were wrong, and you are willfully and publicly supporting violent murdering terrorists because you agree with their ideology.

You glossed right over the fact that the government never classified them as terrorists and that your Washington Examiner article was incorrect. That's what I was pointing out to you. Re-read what I wrote, and then read what the New Jersey Homeland Security Office actually said.

As of 7-8, there had been 23 killed in these riots.

 https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/08/23-people-died-protests-looting-violence-george-floyd-death/

Or take Wikipedia, which indicates 28 have died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests

OK, that's a good start. So how many of those deaths were caused by Antifa, or does everybody who ever participated or somehow got caught up in the protest just fall under the umbrella of Antifa? One of the people in the list was shot by a cop, and another was shot by a store owner. Are they Antifa too?

Ultimately, the both of you are trying way too hard to simplify the issue so you don't have to look beyond the surface, and then you equate my attempts to peel back the surface as siding with terrorism (or communism I guess).

In short:

You're lame.

This is lame.

This whole section of the forum is a right wing cuckfest.

I forget why I even bothered.

Interesting. Actually what I thought was...

Your article was lame.

You should have picked a better article, but instead lamely chose to defend this one article's lameness.

[TECSHARE]

You glossed right over the fact that the government never classified them as terrorists and that your Washington Examiner article was incorrect. That's what I was pointing out to you. Re-read what I wrote, and then read what the New Jersey Homeland Security Office actually said.

"Anarchist Extremists: Antifa
June 12, 2017 · Domestic Terrorism""

https://archive.is/vS2Zx

Weird how this type of stuff always seems to get memory holed isn't it?

OK so where on that page does it say Antifa is being classified terrorists?

It doesn't.

It never happened.

You're lame.

Perhaps you need me to teach you to read too?

[nutildah]

That same department also stated this:

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-support-violent-tactics

On May 31, President Donald Trump announced that the US government would designate Antifa as a terrorist organization, although there currently is no domestic terrorism statute that could label it as such.

Using a category label for website posts is NOT the same thing as "classifying" a terrorist organization. If you look at the website's posts that are currently under that category label, you will see there are none. They recategorized Antifa-related posts under Counterterrorism and Domestic, which is probably why you are pointing to an archived version of the website. So whatever flimsy, half-assed, quarter-truth metric you were using to "classify" Antifa as "a terrorist organization" is now gone.

Here's what it looks like when actual terrorist organizations are classified/designated/declared as such:

https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/

You should have picked a better article, but instead lamely chose to defend this one article's lameness.

OK, from TS's NJ Homeland Security Office website:

Domestic Terrorism in 2019

Plots, Attacks, Threats & Weapons Stockpiling

- 21 race-based extremist (19 white supremacists, 2 black supremacists)
- 14 anti-government extremist (4 militia extremists, 4 "sovereign citizens", 6 "anti-gov't")
- 7 single-issue extremist (5 anti-abortion, 2 anarchist extremists)
- 3 domestic terrorism in New Jersey (3 white supremacists)
- 2 Jersey City Shootings, December 10 (2 black separatists)

Add up the numbers any way you want, then accuse them of being communist propaganda spreaders, I guess.

[TECSHARE]

That same department also stated this:

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-support-violent-tactics

On May 31, President Donald Trump announced that the US government would designate Antifa as a terrorist organization, although there currently is no domestic terrorism statute that could label it as such.

Using a category label for website posts is NOT the same thing as "classifying" a terrorist organization. If you look at the website's posts that are currently under that category label, you will see there are none. They recategorized Antifa-related posts under Counterterrorism and Domestic, which is probably why you are pointing to an archived version of the website. So whatever flimsy, half-assed, quarter-truth metric you were using to "classify" Antifa as "a terrorist organization" is now gone.

Here's what it looks like when actual terrorist organizations are classified/designated/declared as such:

https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/

You should have picked a better article, but instead lamely chose to defend this one article's lameness.

OK, from TS's NJ Homeland Security Office website:

Domestic Terrorism in 2019

Plots, Attacks, Threats & Weapons Stockpiling

- 21 race-based extremist (19 white supremacists, 2 black supremacists)
- 14 anti-government extremist (4 militia extremists, 4 "sovereign citizens", 6 "anti-gov't")
- 7 single-issue extremist (5 anti-abortion, 2 anarchist extremists)
- 3 domestic terrorism in New Jersey (3 white supremacists)
- 2 Jersey City Shootings, December 10 (2 black separatists)

Add up the numbers any way you want, then accuse them of being communist propaganda spreaders, I guess.

Then it immediately contradicts itself by saying:

"Federal law defines terrorism as a criminal attack intended to intimidate and coerce civilians in order to influence government policy or otherwise affect government conduct."

ANTIFA and BLM fall well within that definition, and the statute in fact does exist. I am using an archived version of the site because it was intentionally scrubbed to soften the effect of the designation for political purposes. The current version has it under the "Counterterrorism and Domestic" category. I suppose you believe that means the NJ DHS thinks ANTIFA are counter-terrorists now?

[nutildah]

Then it immediately contradicts itself by saying:

"Federal law defines terrorism as a criminal attack intended to intimidate and coerce civilians in order to influence government policy or otherwise affect government conduct."

ANTIFA and BLM fall well within that definition, and the statute in fact does exist. I am using an archived version of the site because it was intentionally scrubbed to soften the effect of the designation for political purposes. The current version has it under the "Counterterrorism and Domestic" category. I suppose you believe that means the NJ DHS thinks ANTIFA are counter-terrorists now?

You are now acting as the sole and final arbiter as to what a terrorist organization is. That's to be expected. So long as you aren't continuing to claim that Antifa wasn't declared/designated/whatever a "terrorist organization" by the government.

"Counterterrorism" and "Domestic" are two separate categories. Let's see, what other, non-Antifa reports fall under those two categories? Let's take a look.

White Racially Motivated Extremists Remain Resilient
Boogaloo Movement Gains Traction Amid Civil Unrest
Far-Right Extremists Leverage Anti-Lockdown Sentiments

And this one I think you could appreciate the most:

Disinformation Fuels Extremist Narratives

You should read it. It's about how extremists use false information to radicalize a captive audience and potentially recruit new members.