'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"'

[nutildah]

Exact reason why Antifa was declared a terrorist organization.

Uh, except that didn't happen. Antifa has never been "declared a terrorist organization."

What never surprises me is the reluctance to condemn Antifa behavior by people for the mere fact that Trump is in the picture and takes a strong stance against mob terrorist-like actions by white college aged kids dressed in all black. You get caught up in the declaration of a label more-so than the fact that Antifa has caused over 20 million dollars worth of damage in the last 6 weeks alone and have repeatedly tried to deface federal buildings including numerous attacks on law enforcement and innocent civilians.

But I guess these actions are considered nonevents.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that no government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization."

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[Gyfts]

Exact reason why Antifa was declared a terrorist organization.

Uh, except that didn't happen. Antifa has never been "declared a terrorist organization."

What never surprises me is the reluctance to condemn Antifa behavior by people for the mere fact that Trump is in the picture and takes a strong stance against mob terrorist-like actions by white college aged kids dressed in all black. You get caught up in the declaration of a label more-so than the fact that Antifa has caused over 20 million dollars worth of damage in the last 6 weeks alone and have repeatedly tried to deface federal buildings including numerous attacks on law enforcement and innocent civilians.

But I guess these actions are considered nonevents.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that no government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization."

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still. If you don't think he has the authority or if he was wrong to use the verbiage of "terrorist" to describe antifa, that's another discussion. Strictly talking on their behavior though, I wouldn't consider terrorist that unreasonable solely based on the violence they're causing in places like Portland. I sure hope you aren't supportive of their causes and recognize that they're an issue because anyone that is neutral about the situation is inclined to believe 20M+ in damages in the last 6 weeks isn't all fine and dandy.

[nutildah]

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still.

That's better, but it still has the same legal weight and ramifications as me declaring mosquitoes to be terrorists.

Actually, let's take a look at what he actually said:



This will require new laws to be written. Currently, domestic groups can't be labeled terrorist organizations. So no, he never even "designated" Antifa as a terrorist organization, nor did anybody else.

I actually pointed this out a month ago:

This was good news. It will weaken it as they won't easily be able to take in donations, and freely do other things. The members will probably shift into BLM though.

Already happening. In typical Marxist SOP, they destroy the image of one organization and shift to the next. ANTIFA are already flying their flags less and less and simply shifting over to infiltrate BLM even more completely.

With Antifa designated Terrorists, of course they would move the next likely target. Kill it, then gut it, skin it, and wear the skin proclaiming to be the real thing.

Trump doesn't have the power to designate Antifa (or any domestic group) as terrorists. Its a non-event that exists only in the minds of Trump and his brainwashed followers.

[TwitchySeal]

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still.

That's better, but it still has the same legal weight and ramifications as me declaring mosquitoes to be terrorists.

Actually, let's take a look at what he actually said:

That's just his fancy way of referring to himself in third person.

[Barnabe]

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still.

That's better, but it still has the same legal weight and ramifications as me declaring mosquitoes to be terrorists.

Actually, let's take a look at what he actually said:



This will require new laws to be written. Currently, domestic groups can't be labeled terrorist organizations.

So it's more of a technical/judicial issue, but you agree that they are doing actions similar to terrorist groups.

[nutildah]

So it's more of a technical/judicial issue, but you agree that they are doing actions similar to terrorist groups.

I would say its actually more of a "Trump rallying his base" issue and like most proclamations Trump has ever made, nothing will become of it.

If you want my opinion: Antifa isn't helping themselves by defacing and damaging property, throwing things at cops or lighting things on fire. And of course I think that's bad, if it really needs to be said. Certainly innocent people/businesses are getting caught up in their antics and they are discrediting their own movement.

I'd say its a little extreme to call them "terrorists" -- if they were conducting bombings, assassinations or kidnappings, then I would be more likely to agree with the label. One guy swinging a hammer at a federal agent isn't enough to sway my opinion.

As a whole, right wing extremists continue to kill more Americans each year than every other type of extremist group - foreign or domestic - combined. Yet for some reason there's not a single mention of them here in this thread (other than by me).

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.

BTW, incels are responsible for more deaths in just 1 attack than all Antifa "attacks" combined, ever. They should probably be designated a terrorist organization as well.

[TECSHARE]

None of that has anything to do with the fact that no government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization."

"Feds Have Reportedly Classified Their Activities as 'Domestic Terrorist Violence'"

https://www.newsweek.com/are-antifa-terrorists-658396

[nutildah]

None of that has anything to do with the fact that no government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization."

"Feds Have Reportedly Classified Their Activities as 'Domestic Terrorist Violence'"

https://www.newsweek.com/are-antifa-terrorists-658396

You posted that already, and it doesn't disprove my statement. No government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization," not even the FBI, ATF, CIA, or NSA.

[TECSHARE]

You posted that already, and it doesn't disprove my statement. No government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization," not even the FBI, ATF, CIA, or NSA.

"Antifa officially declared a terrorist group by New Jersey's Homeland Security office"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/new-jerseys-homeland-security-office-declares-antifa-a-terrorist-group

[nutildah]

You posted that already, and it doesn't disprove my statement. No government body has declared Antifa to be a "terrorist organization," not even the FBI, ATF, CIA, or NSA.

"Antifa officially declared a terrorist group by New Jersey's Homeland Security office"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/new-jerseys-homeland-security-office-declares-antifa-a-terrorist-group

LOL bro.

That's an article from July 2017, and the NJ HS office report referenced doesn't once use the word "terrorist" or "terror" or any other derivation of the word. It classifies Antifa as "anarchist extremists." The article is flat out wrong.

More recently:

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-support-violent-tactics

On May 31, President Donald Trump announced that the US government would designate Antifa as a terrorist organization, although there currently is no domestic terrorism statute that could label it as such.

[Spendulus]

So it's more of a technical/judicial issue, but you agree that they are doing actions similar to terrorist groups.

I would say its actually more of a "Trump rallying his base" issue and like most proclamations Trump has ever made, nothing will become of it.

If you want my opinion: Antifa isn't helping themselves by defacing and damaging property, throwing things at cops or lighting things on fire. And of course I think that's bad, if it really needs to be said. Certainly innocent people/businesses are getting caught up in their antics and they are discrediting their own movement.

I'd say its a little extreme to call them "terrorists" -- if they were conducting bombings, assassinations or kidnappings, then I would be more likely to agree with the label. One guy swinging a hammer at a federal agent isn't enough to sway my opinion.

As a whole, right wing extremists continue to kill more Americans each year than every other type of extremist group - foreign or domestic - combined. Yet for some reason there's not a single mention of them here in this thread (other than by me).

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.

BTW, incels are responsible for more deaths in just 1 attack than all Antifa "attacks" combined, ever. They should probably be designated a terrorist organization as well.

The problem with your reference is that it reads like, and is in fact, a cookbook answer provided to you and others to rebut anti-Antifa arguments, such as you are here doing it it.

That doesn't make it sensible, logical, true, or useful. It could be a pack of lies. In fact, that is the way it looks to me. For example, check this out -

"One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election. Far-right and far-left networks have used violence against each other at protests, raising the possibility of escalating violence during the election period."

So after 59 days (I think) of left wing anarchist violence in multiple locations we should stop everything and start worrying about right wing violence.

Really?

[nutildah]

The problem with your reference is that it reads like, and is in fact, a cookbook answer provided to you and others to rebut anti-Antifa arguments, such as you are here doing it it.

That doesn't make it sensible, logical, true, or useful. It could be a pack of lies. In fact, that is the way it looks to me. For example, check this out -

"One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election. Far-right and far-left networks have used violence against each other at protests, raising the possibility of escalating violence during the election period."

So after 59 days (I think) of left wing anarchist violence in multiple locations we should stop everything and start worrying about right wing violence.

Really?

You didn't actually rebut anything put forth in the report. It just wasn't immediately what you wanted to hear, so you dismissed it on a source-level. That's the easy way out. I could have done the same thing with TS's Washington Examiner article but instead I looked into it and demonstrated exactly why it was incorrect.

My reference comes from what claims to be a bi-partisan think tank, and its chairman of the board is a billionaire who has made several donations to Republican candidates over a period of decades. But that's all irrelevant if you can't dissect what is actually incorrect about the report.

I don't know what the solution to the Antifa problem is, but sending federal troops to Portland certainly didn't help. People are angry at a culmination of problems and the rage has now boiled over out of the pot. The interesting thing is that a number of people from all walks of life are all joining in the protests and collectively being branded as "Antifa," which is another reason why its hard to simply label everybody involved as "terrorists" (though it certainly would be easy, wouldn't it).

[Spendulus]

The problem with your reference is that it reads like, and is in fact, a cookbook answer provided to you and others to rebut anti-Antifa arguments, such as you are here doing it it.

That doesn't make it sensible, logical, true, or useful. It could be a pack of lies. In fact, that is the way it looks to me. For example, check this out -

"One of the most concerning is the 2020 U.S. presidential election, before and after which extremists may resort to violence, depending on the outcome of the election. Far-right and far-left networks have used violence against each other at protests, raising the possibility of escalating violence during the election period."

So after 59 days (I think) of left wing anarchist violence in multiple locations we should stop everything and start worrying about right wing violence.

Really?

You didn't actually rebut anything put forth in the report. It just wasn't immediately what you wanted to hear, so you dismissed it on a source-level. T...

Because there's absolutely no reason to go further. If the article contains patent nonsense, the discussion can stop right there. And I posted one of many such examples. The article raises the specter of far right violence, but every day, every one is seeing far left violence.

The problem here isn't mine. It's yours. I didn't make or contribute to the crazy far left violence being orchestrated and played out; I'm only commenting on it. And if your article is in fantasy-land, so be it. It is what it is.

Just one more example and I'm through, because there's really nothing to argue here. The article claims to survey incidents through May 2020. In 2020 it shows no incidents of left wing terrorism in a summary chart. Last I heard, there were 1800 policemen injured in the mayhem on the streets in the last several months of nonsense.

[TwitchySeal]

Alright. Let me fix the statement then. Trump has declared Antifa a terrorist organization, not an official governmental body. Although I'd argue the executive branch is a governmental body, but still.

That's better, but it still has the same legal weight and ramifications as me declaring mosquitoes to be terrorists.

Actually, let's take a look at what he actually said:



This will require new laws to be written. Currently, domestic groups can't be labeled terrorist organizations.

So it's more of a technical/judicial issue, but you agree that they are doing actions similar to terrorist groups.

I would say 'they' are doing actions much more similar to the first patriots in the 1750-60s:  Stealing, destroying property, knocking down monuments, inciting riots, etc. 

If they start trying to kill as many innocent people as possible or uploading videos of people being beheaded we can put them in the same group as isis.

[Gyfts]

I would say its actually more of a "Trump rallying his base" issue and like most proclamations Trump has ever made, nothing will become of it.

If you consider this Trump rally his base, which I agree it is, then what does that say about Nancy Pelosi when she defends Antifa and spreads the lie that it is "unmarked" agents that are arresting protesters for graffiti?

Unidentified stormtroopers. Unmarked cars. Kidnapping protesters and causing severe injuries in response to graffiti.

These are not the actions of a democratic republic.

@DHSgov’s actions in Portland undermine its mission.

Trump & his stormtroopers must be stopped.

These agents were marked, these were not protesters, they were rioters, and their crimes are certainly not limited to graffiti. Is it part of the left's platform or base to defend the actions of antifa?

If you want my opinion: Antifa isn't helping themselves by defacing and damaging property, throwing things at cops or lighting things on fire. And of course I think that's bad, if it really needs to be said. Certainly innocent people/businesses are getting caught up in their antics and they are discrediting their own movement.

I'd say its a little extreme to call them "terrorists" -- if they were conducting bombings, assassinations or kidnappings, then I would be more likely to agree with the label. One guy swinging a hammer at a federal agent isn't enough to sway my opinion.

It's disingenuous to say it's one guy swinging a hammer that's causing all this. There's daily activity outside of the federal courthouse in Portland that has been set on fire numerous times with Antifa attempting to blind officers with high powered laser pointers who have been involved in numerous unprovoked assaults on LEO's.

As a whole, right wing extremists continue to kill more Americans each year than every other type of extremist group - foreign or domestic - combined. Yet for some reason there's not a single mention of them here in this thread (other than by me).

Because it's whataboutism. That's why no one has mentioned it. Two wrongs do not make a right. I can assure you that these left wing groups have caused more bodily injuries within the last couple of months and financial burden than any ring wing attacks thus far this year.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states

First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.

I hope this isn't meant to be a deflection to Antifa's antics and behavior. Antifa's been responsible for 20 million dollars of damages in the last 6 weeks alone just in Portland. Eco-terrorist groups often cause property damage oppose to mass killings but that doesn't negate their terrorist label.

[Spendulus]

....
I would say 'they' are doing actions much more similar to the first patriots in the 1750-60s:  Stealing, destroying property, knocking down monuments, inciting riots, etc. 

If they start trying to kill as many innocent people as possible or uploading videos of people being beheaded we can put them in the same group as isis.

ISIS style is not the only form of terrorism. For example, there were numerous eco-terrorist groups in the USA in the 1980s and later.

Go ahead and defend them. They are remarkably similar to the Nazi brownshirts, or the instigators of riots who infiltrated "student protest" in the takeover of China by Mao.

We see them for exactly what they are, and your protection of them for exactly what it is.

[nutildah]

I would say its actually more of a "Trump rallying his base" issue and like most proclamations Trump has ever made, nothing will become of it.

If you consider this Trump rally his base, which I agree it is, then what does that say about Nancy Pelosi when she defends Antifa and spreads the lie that it is "unmarked" agents that are arresting protesters for graffiti?

Isn't this "whataboutism"? Lol. I don't give a shit about what Nancy Pelosi does or says and I wish she was removed from office just as much as you do. She (and a few others) are the reason why we need term limits in congress.

Is it part of the left's platform or base to defend the actions of antifa?

It depends on who you are defining to be "the left." If that includes me, then I'd say no, it isn't.

It's disingenuous to say it's one guy swinging a hammer that's causing all this.

That's not what I'm saying. I was preemptively pointing to the prime example that I imagine would be used to make the case that Antifa are terrorists.

As a whole, right wing extremists continue to kill more Americans each year than every other type of extremist group - foreign or domestic - combined. Yet for some reason there's not a single mention of them here in this thread (other than by me).

Because it's whataboutism. That's why no one has mentioned it. Two wrongs do not make a right. I can assure you that these left wing groups have caused more bodily injuries within the last couple of months and financial burden than any ring wing attacks thus far this year.

What I'm actually saying is these right wing groups which have been behind the majority of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11 aren't being labeled "terrorist organizations" for the same reason Antifa isn't.

I hope this isn't meant to be a deflection to Antifa's antics and behavior. Antifa's been responsible for 20 million dollars of damages in the last 6 weeks alone just in Portland. Eco-terrorist groups often cause property damage oppose to mass killings but that doesn't negate their terrorist label.

You keep repeating this as if I'm supposed to cave to your stereotype and take its form.

Because there's absolutely no reason to go further. If the article contains patent nonsense, the discussion can stop right there. And I posted one of many such examples. The article raises the specter of far right violence, but every day, every one is seeing far left violence.

The problem here isn't mine. It's yours. I didn't make or contribute to the crazy far left violence being orchestrated and played out; I'm only commenting on it. And if your article is in fantasy-land, so be it. It is what it is.

Just one more example and I'm through, because there's really nothing to argue here. The article claims to survey incidents through May 2020. In 2020 it shows no incidents of left wing terrorism in a summary chart. Last I heard, there were 1800 policemen injured in the mayhem on the streets in the last several months of nonsense.

Again, you provided no qualitative counterargument and just dismissed a well-researched report as "patent nonsense" because you don't like what it had to say. Instead you basically blamed me for "crazy far left violence", LOL. You want to change longstanding definitions of terms and replace real data with what you "last heard", so that way you don't have to adjust anything about your mindset.  This is very lazy maneuvering.

[Spendulus]

Because there's absolutely no reason to go further. If the article contains patent nonsense, the discussion can stop right there. And I posted one of many such examples. The article raises the specter of far right violence, but every day, every one is seeing far left violence.

The problem here isn't mine. It's yours. I didn't make or contribute to the crazy far left violence being orchestrated and played out; I'm only commenting on it. And if your article is in fantasy-land, so be it. It is what it is.

Just one more example and I'm through, because there's really nothing to argue here. The article claims to survey incidents through May 2020. In 2020 it shows no incidents of left wing terrorism in a summary chart. Last I heard, there were 1800 policemen injured in the mayhem on the streets in the last several months of nonsense.

Again, you provided no qualitative counterargument and just dismissed a well-researched report as "patent nonsense" because you don't like what it had to say. Instead you basically blamed me for "crazy far left violence", LOL. You want to change longstanding definitions of terms and replace real data with what you "last heard", so that way you don't have to adjust anything about your mindset.  This is very lazy maneuvering.

I can't have blamed you for "crazy for left violence" because according to your article, there is none.

Please be consistent. Either explain why they consider there to have been no left wing violence in 2020, contrary to everything the media is showing up, simply contrary to the facts.

Or continue to believe your article, in which case there is no violence that you might be accused of.

Repeating. "The problem here isn't mine, it's yours."

[nutildah]

I can't have blamed you for "crazy for left violence" because according to your article, there is none.

What? You just did though.

The problem here isn't mine. It's yours. I didn't make or contribute to the crazy far left violence being orchestrated and played out; I'm only commenting on it.

That's you saying I made or contributed to "the crazy far left violence being orchestrated and played out," which is as equally insane as it is lazy. You're attempting to shift the argument to an emotional one because you can't present an argument based on logic or substance. It requires too much time to research and form valid objections based on facts, so you are taking the lazy way out.

Please be consistent. Either explain why they consider there to have been no left wing violence in 2020, contrary to everything the media is showing up, simply contrary to the facts.

First of all, the report data ends at the end of May. It doesn't take into account anything that happened in June or July. Second of all, it only takes into account "terrorist attacks and plots by perpetrator organization" -- not ALL "left wing violence." So all the injuries to cops (1800 was your unsourced claim) wouldn't be included unless each one was designated as a "terrorist attack" and the attack was reported as being done by antifa. For the most part I don't think the police record these incidents as falling into either category.

Maybe the data will change in the next report.

For now, you are rejecting it outright as a "fantasy" because it doesn't meet your particular standards which are based on nothing other than your desire to only accept results as true if they reinforce your world view.

[Gyfts]

IIsn't this "whataboutism"? Lol. I don't give a shit about what Nancy Pelosi does or says and I wish she was removed from office just as much as you do. She (and a few others) are the reason why we need term limits in congress.

Not quite. Whataboutism is a failure to acknowledge or condemn the behavior of your side while trying to deflect to others in attempts of justification. Merely uttering the words "what about" isn't whataboutism. My point here was that Nancy Pelosi is, out of spite, making false statements and inadvertently supporting Antifa because of mere fact that Trump's involved. So Nancy Pelosi is certainly doing her job in rallying up her leftist base and throwing logic out the window. You and I agree Nancy Pelosi needs to go, but is it for different reasons? Personally, I don't think a politician should support rioters for partisan purposes and that's why I think she's insufferable. 

It depends on who you are defining to be "the left." If that includes me, then I'd say no, it isn't.

I wasn't specifically referring to you when I say the left. I say "left" as a blanket term to capture extremely hard left liberals that believe in radical agenda.

What I'm actually saying is these right wing groups which have been behind the majority of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11 aren't being labeled "terrorist organizations" for the same reason Antifa isn't.

These ring wing extremist groups haven't been labeled because they didn't act in a coordinated fashion like Antifa has. Groups like the "Proud Boys" are right wing nutjobs but do not routinely cause violence so, to my knowledge, they haven't been labeled as a terrorist group. Although there isn't centralized leadership, there is coordination between these groups of people in Portland. That's, in my opinion, the best case to label them as a terrorist organization. They act in unison.

You keep repeating this as if I'm supposed to cave to your stereotype and take its form.

What stereotype are you referring to? I bring this figure up because there's a precedent of labeling groups that damage property as terrorists. Eco-terrorist groups exist and officials commonly use the phrase eco-terrorist to describe them.