1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[cypherdoc]

If all of that is true.. so be it.  But promising 4-6 weeks if you know its going to be longer than that is wrong.

At what point of this thread did it lead you to believe they knew it would be longer?

Inaba, clearly you  are a proponent of BFL and i have no problem with that coming in here late in the game of all this.

i have a few questions for you:

1.  do you live nearby Kansas where they're located and is that why you were able to go and view demo versions in person?

2.  is BFL a large corporation or a start up shop?

3.  why do you think they are so silent here on the forums?  their products sell for good money especially that Rig so i'd assume they'd have a dedicated person available to answer all questions and assuage the masses here.

4.  i left a phone message for them 3d ago and never received a call back or anything and from what i read around here others are also not getting any feedback.  you have to acknowledge at least that this is very strange behavior for a corp that stands to make huge amounts of money selling these devices.

thanks in advance.

[SysRun]

If all of that is true.. so be it.  But promising 4-6 weeks if you know its going to be longer than that is wrong.

At what point of this thread did it lead you to believe they knew it would be longer?

Maybe for him about 12 weeks after they first promised 4-6 weeks?

Or ... for me when Sonny's email was posted proving that the reason the first version didn't do what they advertised and accepted money for, was that it didn't exist (it was a simulation) back when they were advertising details and accepting money for it

(also they are never gonna live down that 10 years experience statement ...)

Still with all that, you pre-ordered right?

[kano]

If all of that is true.. so be it.  But promising 4-6 weeks if you know its going to be longer than that is wrong.

At what point of this thread did it lead you to believe they knew it would be longer?

Maybe for him about 12 weeks after they first promised 4-6 weeks?

Or ... for me when Sonny's email was posted proving that the reason the first version didn't do what they advertised and accepted money for, was that it didn't exist (it was a simulation) back when they were advertising details and accepting money for it

(also they are never gonna live down that 10 years experience statement ...)

Still with all that, you pre-ordered 8 or so right?

No, as I said many pages back, I'm waiting to see them being shipped (and in greater quantities than 1) before I'll consider risking putting money down (or giving someone a free 3 month loan)
However, with the discussions before about what chip they are using, I then added (for myself) "knowing the chip" as a requirement also since if they are batches of old chips, then if it fails down the track close to when the 6 months warranty expires, then you'd most likely be screwed anyway (or at least waiting 4-6 weeks to get it replaced)

[imsaguy]

If all of that is true.. so be it.  But promising 4-6 weeks if you know its going to be longer than that is wrong.

At what point of this thread did it lead you to believe they knew it would be longer?

Maybe for him about 12 weeks after they first promised 4-6 weeks?

Or ... for me when Sonny's email was posted proving that the reason the first version didn't do what they advertised and accepted money for, was that it didn't exist (it was a simulation) back when they were advertising details and accepting money for it

(also they are never gonna live down that 10 years experience statement ...)

All of this plus

Just to confirm, I've got your account marked for packing.  We haven't got to your unit position shipment yet.  We're obviously slow with the hand assembly, but we're very close.

There have been communications coming out of BFL that they are hand assembling (you said so yourself).  They know its going to be slow, yet they STILL continue to promise delivery in 4-6 weeks for new orders.  So essentially they have to ship all outstanding orders AND the new orders all within 4-6 weeks.  GLWT.

[SysRun]

If all of that is true.. so be it.  But promising 4-6 weeks if you know its going to be longer than that is wrong.

At what point of this thread did it lead you to believe they knew it would be longer?

Maybe for him about 12 weeks after they first promised 4-6 weeks?

Or ... for me when Sonny's email was posted proving that the reason the first version didn't do what they advertised and accepted money for, was that it didn't exist (it was a simulation) back when they were advertising details and accepting money for it

(also they are never gonna live down that 10 years experience statement ...)

Still with all that, you pre-ordered 8 or so right?

No, as I said many pages back, I'm waiting to see them being shipped (and in greater quantities than 1) before I'll consider risking putting money down (or giving someone a free 3 month loan)
However, with the discussions before about what chip they are using, I then added (for myself) "knowing the chip" as a requirement also since if they are batches of old chips, then if it fails down the track close to when the 6 months warranty expires, then you'd most likely be screwed anyway (or at least waiting 4-6 weeks to get it replaced)

I agree with all of that. At the very least you could say that BFL's business practice is unethical. We'll see if they're unethical because of lack of experience or for "other" reasons fairly soon.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Yes, well, thankfully everyone has the option to choose not to buy one if they have problems with BFL's business.

Us early adopters knew the risks but put down our cash early and will be rewarded with the first units.    If you decide you want to buy one now you'll have to wait for a new batch to be assembled and shipped out (exactly like the other fpga options on this forum, there's a delay of a few weeks between batches).   

This first batch has all been about research and development to build a stable design.   That's done now so all future orders are just a matter of getting the boards built and the units assembled I guess.

But again, you have the option to buy or not, no-ones forcing you at gunpoint. 

[imsaguy]

Yes, well, thankfully everyone has the option to choose not to buy one if they have problems with BFL's business.

Us early adopters knew the risks but put down our cash early and will be rewarded with the first units.    If you decide you want to buy one now you'll have to wait for a new batch to be assembled and shipped out (exactly like the other fpga options on this forum, there's a delay of a few weeks between batches).   

This first batch has all been about research and development to build a stable design.   That's done now so all future orders are just a matter of getting the boards built and the units assembled I guess.

But again, you have the option to buy or not, no-ones forcing you at gunpoint. 

Its done?  Really?  First batchers have their units?

[fred0]

Inaba's Test Single:

I have compiled shares submitted for various times during the past 66 hours.  Hopefully, the decrease in hash speed is due to instability in his internet connection.  So for the last 66 hours the average hash speed is 739 MHash/s. The data is in the link below.

http://pastebin.com/6nenzMsr

[Edit: updated] http://pastebin.com/XVRj154U

[rjk]

If all of that is true.. so be it.  But promising 4-6 weeks if you know its going to be longer than that is wrong.

At what point of this thread did it lead you to believe they knew it would be longer?

Inaba, clearly you  are a proponent of BFL and i have no problem with that coming in here late in the game of all this.

i have a few questions for you:

1.  do you live nearby Kansas where they're located and is that why you were able to go and view demo versions in person?

2.  is BFL a large corporation or a start up shop?

3.  why do you think they are so silent here on the forums?  their products sell for good money especially that Rig so i'd assume they'd have a dedicated person available to answer all questions and assuage the masses here.

4.  i left a phone message for them 3d ago and never received a call back or anything and from what i read around here others are also not getting any feedback.  you have to acknowledge at least that this is very strange behavior for a corp that stands to make huge amounts of money selling these devices.

thanks in advance.

I know these threads are massive... but seriously - READ THEM. They are pertinent to this discussion, and they answer each and every one of your questions.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Yes, well, thankfully everyone has the option to choose not to buy one if they have problems with BFL's business.

Us early adopters knew the risks but put down our cash early and will be rewarded with the first units.    If you decide you want to buy one now you'll have to wait for a new batch to be assembled and shipped out (exactly like the other fpga options on this forum, there's a delay of a few weeks between batches).   

This first batch has all been about research and development to build a stable design.   That's done now so all future orders are just a matter of getting the boards built and the units assembled I guess.

But again, you have the option to buy or not, no-ones forcing you at gunpoint. 

Its done?  Really?  First batchers have their units?

Read it again.   Yes, the R&D and first units are done.

[kano]

...
Its done?  Really?  First batchers have their units?

Read it again.   Yes, the R&D and first units are done.

Well, actually, BFL have "said" they are done.
But no one seems to have gotten one except Inaba (and his is a loan as far as his first post on it seems to suggest)
... unless the "WTF is that?" question I asked was supposed to be a shipped BFL?

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

...
Its done?  Really?  First batchers have their units?

Read it again.   Yes, the R&D and first units are done.

Well, actually, BFL have "said" they are done.
But no one seems to have gotten one except Inaba (and his is a loan as far as his first post on it seems to suggest)
... unless the "WTF is that?" question I asked was supposed to be a shipped BFL?

Fine, I'll give you that for now.   That record is close to breaking though so make the most of it while you still can.

[kano]

...
Its done?  Really?  First batchers have their units?

Read it again.   Yes, the R&D and first units are done.

Well, actually, BFL have "said" they are done.
But no one seems to have gotten one except Inaba (and his is a loan as far as his first post on it seems to suggest)
... unless the "WTF is that?" question I asked was supposed to be a shipped BFL?

Fine, I'll give you that for now.   That record is close to breaking though so make the most of it while you still can.

I was expecting to see them on Wednesday - I'm not arguing they will never arrive at all.
I'm simply saying that they still haven't.

[RandyFolds]

I think when someone sees what they mean by hand assembly, if you've ever done anything vaguely like it, you'll understand why it's a slow process.  I know I wouldn't want to be doing it...  They also do a burn in of the unit to make sure it's functioning, which takes time that can't be avoided.

Doesn't it cost a trifling amount to have your board populated at an assembly house? Hire some fucking day laborers at have them screw on fans. I used to pick up ten laborers to help trim when I would harvest, and they'd get $200 and an ounce of weed if they wanted it. My shit got done in eight hours.

2.  is BFL a large corporation or a start up shop?

Neither...they are an unregistered entity, despite their claims of incorporation.

Read it again.   Yes, the R&D and first units are done.

Are you privy to some information that the rest of their customer base isn't? No one has one yet, except for Inaba, and one unit hardly proves anything. I could get you a single working FPGA for $10,000+ in preorder money that people claim to have lent them for four months.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Are you privy to some information that the rest of their customer base isn't? No one has one yet, except for Inaba, and one unit hardly proves anything. I could get you a single working FPGA for $10,000+ in preorder money that people claim to have lent them for four months.

My reply to Kano applies to you as well.  Your fun is nearly over so make the most of it while you can.  Why some of you are so desperate for these things to not exist I'm not sure I'll ever understand, but whatever gets you off I suppose.

[RandyFolds]

Are you privy to some information that the rest of their customer base isn't? No one has one yet, except for Inaba, and one unit hardly proves anything. I could get you a single working FPGA for $10,000+ in preorder money that people claim to have lent them for four months.

My reply to Kano applies to you as well.  Your fun is nearly over so make the most of it while you can.  Why some of you are so desperate for these things to not exist I'm not sure I'll ever understand, but whatever gets you off I suppose.

Please go to the first page of the original thread and note that I have voiced my desire for these to be real since the beginning, and have repeatedly stated that I would purchase at least one if they prove to exist. Why are you so insistent on Polar Expressing this shit? "You can only hear the bell if you truly believe..."

They still don't exist...nearly five months later. 4-6 weeks, anyone?

[Raoul Duke]

Is somone wishes to shitlist BFL for their false claims they are frree to do so.

And BFL is free to defend themselves in a moderated environment, unlike this forum.

Just like everybody else.

The bictoin shitlist link is in my signature

[imsaguy]

My reply to Kano applies to you as well.  Your fun is nearly over so make the most of it while you can.  Why some of you are so desperate for these things to not exist I'm not sure I'll ever understand, but whatever gets you off I suppose.

Now it is you that gets to reread.  My posting simply stated that it is bad form for BFL to continue to promise delivery in 4-6 weeks from payment for a device that hasn't been seen in the wild.  A loaner device is not the same as orders being filled.

I know why you so desperately want everything to work out and I'm not saying I want to see people get scammed.

[SysRun]

[rjk]

I think when someone sees what they mean by hand assembly, if you've ever done anything vaguely like it, you'll understand why it's a slow process.  I know I wouldn't want to be doing it...  They also do a burn in of the unit to make sure it's functioning, which takes time that can't be avoided.

Doesn't it cost a trifling amount to have your board populated at an assembly house? Hire some fucking day laborers at have them screw on fans.

Something about a Chinese new year, which apparently takes more than a week or 2 to celebrate