1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[DeathAndTaxes]

That's ok, at least I'm joining you at the bottom, since you achieved that pages and pages ago... but I digress.  Please describe how you verified this at the card level with a clamp meter... I wait with baited breath for you to describe the machinations you went through to achieve this marvel of electrical engineering.  I also question how someone with your apparent knowledge of things technical, somehow thinks that using a clamp meter is an accurate measurement of power.  Clamp meters are inaccurate, coupled with the fact that I wait to hear how you used a clamp meter "at card level," again, complete bullshit.

"Clamp meters are inaccurate" - Could you compound your stupidity by making a more broad and inaccurate statement?

The meter I used is a Fluke 375 but for high current DC work a much cheaper meter would be more than accurate.

I separated and clamped the six 12VDC conductors on the PCIe power connectors.  I also used a extender cable which I cut to separate the lanes used for 12VDC so they could be clamped.  That is pins #1, #2, #3 on both A & B side of PCIe slot (technically A1 is used for presence detect but it is micro current so a rounding error on card load, trying to slice off just that lane isn't worth the hassle).   I measured current across all 3 power connections multiple times over a 5 minute span.  I measured the voltage on the 12VDC rail using a power cable which I verified was connected to the same rail.  I had gpumon & munin running and made sure card load was 99% over the entire test period.

I then double checked the results by looking at complete system power at the wall using Kill-a-watt and compared that to the tested PSU efficiency.  I also measured the power (at the wall) at idle w/ no GPUs installed (headless boot) to get the non-GPU load for the system.

[1714167434]

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[1714167434]

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[kano]

Any more stupid questions?  Don't bother I already hit ignore.

Excellent, then I can reply and let everyone know exactly why you are being a fucking idiot and won't have to listen to you retarded replies trying to cover your ass.

I separated and clamped the six 12VDC conductors on the PCIe power connectors.  I also used a extender cable which I cut to separate the lanes used for 12VDC (pins #1, #2, #3 on both A & B side).  I measured current over all 3 inputs, and measured the 12VDC using a separate cable which I verified was on the same rail.

Then I congratulate you, sir.  You are awesome.  I also don't believe a word you say.  Pics or it didn't happen. Oh wait.. you have me on ignore, so you won't be reading this... or is that a lie, too?  You show me a fucking 5970 pulling 550 MH/s at 97W stable, you lying fuck.

So ... you're saying that if he did that then he is right?

[Inaba]

So ... you're saying that if he did that then he is right?

Hell yeah he's right.  If he can show me his Fluke 375, hooked up in the configuration he describes and reading an accurate power draw, the system hashing away at 97w, you bet your ass he's right and I will stand mother fucking corrected like a bitch.  I fully admit it.  Guess that might require video, though... but that seems a bit unreasonable.  

I may try the experiment myself, but like I said, I'm sure my numbers would be considered biased, which is why the burden of proof is on him.

I also don't have a Fluke 375.  This makes me sad.

[Epoch]

I just ran some numbers for Inaba's Single @ https://eclipsemc.com/mw.php?key=196e69b1afe10927460b22a8de1c0d:

3:23pm CST: 65612 shares
12:08am CST: 70949 shares (8h45m later)

So the average hashrate during that 8h45m period was:

70949-65612 = 5337 shares in 31500 seconds (8h45m)
5337 shares * 2^32 hashes/share is 2.29e13 hashes
2.29e13 hashes / 31500s = 727Mhps

Not too bad, but still 13% lower than the advertised specs of 832Mhps.  

Here's another numbers run, for a 15 hour period to 15:06 CST today. Inaba mentioned there are some issues with his unit that are causing throttling.

@Inaba, have you had a chance to try the ufasoft miner to see if the unit behaves the same? It might provide clues on whether this is a cgminer-only issue, or if it is a fundamental issue with the unit.

@kano, you had mentioned earlier that you were doing some work on icarus support in cgminer; have you seen anything in the code that might suggest a reason for the observed throttling behavior?

start: 00:08CST, shares 70949
end: 15:06CST, shares 79630

So we have:
15:06 - 00:08 = 14h58m = 53880s
79630 - 70949 = 8681 shares
8681 shares * 2^32 hashes per share = 3.73e13 hashes
3.73e13 hashes / 53880s = 692Mhps

Another numbers run for the 10h39m period ending at 1:45am CST; average hashrate continues to drop:

start: 15:06CST (yesterday), shares 79630
end: 1:45CST (today), shares 85418

So:
1:45am - 15:06pm = 10h39m = 38340s
85418 - 79630 = 5788 shares
5788 shares * 2^32 hashes per share = 2.49e13 hashes
2.49e13 hashes / 38340s = 648Mhps

[fizzisist]

I very seriously doubt that any enterprising individuals were/are the least bit dissuaded by another FPGA entering the market.  If anything, it would have spurned them to figure out how exactly it's done and copy the design... it would not put anyone off from developing their own product, that is just ridiculous.

As one of those enterprising individuals, I'd like to speak up here. BFL's bait-and-switch certainly did hurt us. The only reason we got anything made was because we decided to go with our gut and ignore the threat of that mythological device actually becoming a reality. We pulled that trigger back in October, well before your test in mid-December showing that they had completely missed the mark. Making the decision to pour tens of thousands of dollars into a production run that could very well go unsold, or need to be sold under cost to recoup some of the investment, was not an easy one. The weeks before your test were very stressful, believe me.

So yeah, they didn't dissuade us, but any rational person really should have been. At the very least, delaying the order until more information was available. Fortunately, the laws of physics held and they didn't reach the power efficiency that is impossible with 65 nm FPGAs (although the fact that they used 65 nm FPGAs was not even clear back then). They did dissuade us in a way though--if BFL had provided honest specs from the beginning, we certainly would have gone ahead with a larger order and been able to reduce the cost.

Fortunately, our product is better. No, we're not planning to copy their design. They used old FPGAs, and get a fraction of the power efficiency. Why would we want to copy that?

For reference, O_Shovah measured 15.64 W at 360 MH/s or 23 MH/J for the X6500 (see this post). I've measured about 18 W at 400 MH/s.

[SysRun]

Who is going to collect that 13 BTC bounty? I thought we'd have something for sure this last weekend.

To collect, we'll need a tracking number posted into this forum AND an un-boxing video.

[rjk]

In other news, Who is going to collect that 13 BTC bounty? I thought we'd have something for sure this last weekend.

To collect, we'll need a tracking number posted into this forum AND an un-boxing video.

I dunno how much info can be gleaned from a tracking number, but is it OK to PM it to a mod, who can then post and say it's legit? For 13 BTC, I would do that and an unboxing + setup video, if I ever get a tracking number (and a single) in the first place.

[SysRun]

In other news, Who is going to collect that 13 BTC bounty? I thought we'd have something for sure this last weekend.

To collect, we'll need a tracking number posted into this forum AND an un-boxing video.

I dunno how much info can be gleaned from a tracking number, but is it OK to PM it to a mod, who can then post and say it's legit? For 13 BTC, I would do that and an unboxing + setup video, if I ever get a tracking number (and a single) in the first place.

The deadline is end of day Friday (PST). There were whispers in the #bitcoin chatroom that someone had received a device on Sunday, but I haven't heard anything since.

[jamesg]

In other news, Who is going to collect that 13 BTC bounty? I thought we'd have something for sure this last weekend.

To collect, we'll need a tracking number posted into this forum AND an un-boxing video.

I dunno how much info can be gleaned from a tracking number, but is it OK to PM it to a mod, who can then post and say it's legit? For 13 BTC, I would do that and an unboxing + setup video, if I ever get a tracking number (and a single) in the first place.

The deadline is end of day Friday (PST). There were whispers in the #bitcoin chatroom that someone had received a device on Sunday, but I haven't heard anything since.

A little birdie said my first single would be flying out to me tomorrow.     

[rjk]

In other news, Who is going to collect that 13 BTC bounty? I thought we'd have something for sure this last weekend.

To collect, we'll need a tracking number posted into this forum AND an un-boxing video.

I dunno how much info can be gleaned from a tracking number, but is it OK to PM it to a mod, who can then post and say it's legit? For 13 BTC, I would do that and an unboxing + setup video, if I ever get a tracking number (and a single) in the first place.

The deadline is end of day Friday (PST). There were whispers in the #bitcoin chatroom that someone had received a device on Sunday, but I haven't heard anything since.

A little birdie said my first single would be flying out to me tomorrow.     

Damn president's day holiday! Probably woulda been today otherwise. 

[Syke]

97w is bullshit, though.  You aren't mining at 550 MH/s at 97w on a 5970.

I've tested the wattages (via KillAWatt) for my undervolted 2x5970 rig with 0-4 GPUs mining.

Num GPUs

Total Watts

0

175

1

230

2

285

3

340

4

395

At my current settings, each GPU eats 55 watts and generates 530 MH/s. That's roughly 4.82 MH/W. I could probably increase the clock a little bit, and use a more efficient power supply to reach the quoted performance.

A 7970 is significantly more efficient than a 5970.

[SysRun]

97w is bullshit, though.  You aren't mining at 550 MH/s at 97w on a 5970.

I've tested the wattages (via KillAWatt) for my undervolted 2x5970 rig with 0-4 GPUs mining.

Num GPUs

Total Watts

0

175

1

230

2

285

3

340

4

395

At my current settings, each GPU eats 55 watts and generates 530 MH/s. That's roughly 4.82 MH/W. I could probably increase the clock a little bit, and use a more efficient power supply to reach the quoted performance.

A 7970 is significantly more efficient than a 5970.

Who's beating a dead horse? Is it you Syke?

[bombo999]

it's a good story though ... please tell me more ... perhaps with some more adjustments, you could get the power consumption down to under 10 watts ... it's easy to spew words on here ... a little more challenging to actually prove your claims

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

In other news, Who is going to collect that 13 BTC bounty? I thought we'd have something for sure this last weekend.

To collect, we'll need a tracking number posted into this forum AND an un-boxing video.

I dunno how much info can be gleaned from a tracking number, but is it OK to PM it to a mod, who can then post and say it's legit? For 13 BTC, I would do that and an unboxing + setup video, if I ever get a tracking number (and a single) in the first place.

The deadline is end of day Friday (PST). There were whispers in the #bitcoin chatroom that someone had received a device on Sunday, but I haven't heard anything since.

A little birdie said my first single would be flying out to me tomorrow.     

Yeah, mine is close as well but I imagine you live a lot closer than I do so you'll most likely get it first.   Get that video done (I don't care which one of us get the bounty as long as it comes from Goat, hehe)

[SysRun]

Alright, where are the tracking numbers today? I'm getting nervous... I may actually lose this bet, unbelievable! 

[imsaguy]

Alright, where are the tracking numbers today? I'm getting nervous... I may actually lose this bet, unbelievable! 

Coming soon!

[yochdog]

https://eclipsemc.com/mw.php?key=196e69b1afe10927460b22a8de1c0d


It has been having issues most of the day.....

You moving it around again, Inaba? 

[Inaba]

Yes, I just got back from BFL's office with a new unit, PSU and firmware. 

I've moved the unit, but my USB cable is too short, so I have to get one from the house to move the unit to where I want it. I did move it a bit to a cooler location, so we'll see if that solves the throttling issue for tonight.

[yochdog]

Yes, I just got back from BFL's office with a new unit, PSU and firmware. 

I've moved the unit, but my USB cable is too short, so I have to get one from the house to move the unit to where I want it. I did move it a bit to a cooler location, so we'll see if that solves the throttling issue for tonight.

That will be great to see (the cooler location).

[Inaba]

72F is the desired "room temp"