Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[Cnut237]

Blow up all gas pipelines from Russia.  Cut them off.

The problem I suppose is that sanctions etc need to go far enough, but not too far. If Putin is put in the situation where he has nothing left to lose then he becomes even more dangerous - difficult as that is to believe. It's not great if he gets pushed into a corner where all he has left is the nuclear weapons.

[Cnut237]

You will always have this risk, as long as this monster is alive.

I hope there are sane, peace-loving Russian people in Putin's military who can disable his nuclear capabilities.

Maybe the ideal scenario is that the sanctions hurt the Russian elite enough that they oust Putin (which would mean assassinate Putin). Probably the only (or at least safest) way to bring him down is from the inside. Whether that's oligarchs or top military officials, or some combination of the two, who knows, and who knows if it's even remotely likely.

Russian foreign policy, as subtle as a drunk bear

TBH, talking of drunk bears, I'd welcome Yeltsin back about now.

[OgNasty]

Some of the horrific video clips I've seen from this war really illustrates how war has changed.  Seeing tanks runover cars on the freeway like they're playing grand theft auto, or seeing cyclists having bombs dropped on their heads are things that are just unexpected to me and even unfathomable.  I think most people just want to go about their daily lives without fear of some government squabble murdering them while trying to get a workout in, or trying to make it to work.  It's pretty crazy that with all of the advancement of our civilization, war has turned even less personal and the loss of life seems almost expected.  Personally, I would prefer the days of swinging swords to suddenly having your entire family murdered in a second as a jet flies by...  If you haven't seen some of the horrific clips out there from this war, do yourself a favor and don't search for them.  It's absolutely heartbreaking.

[DaRude]

LOCAL IN UKRAINE "NO WAR HERE" & COMPLETELY FAKE ASS MSM NEWS FOOTAGE & NARRATIVE
https://www.bitchute.com/video/htTj6cGnTgZC/

This is turning into a pretty good comedy.  Especially enjoyable is watching the reactions of the (highly vaxxed) mouth breathers who watch the mainstream media and think it's real.

Tel-lie-vision the biggest enemy there is

“All the world’s a stage”

William Shakespeare




https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1498090127146504193

Blow up all gas pipelines from Russia.  Cut them off.

Umm wtf now you want to cut Europe from gas Dont think taking Europe hostage is a good idea

[DaRude]

Some of the horrific video clips I've seen from this war really illustrates how war has changed.  Seeing tanks runover cars on the freeway like they're playing grand theft auto, or seeing cyclists having bombs dropped on their heads are things that are just unexpected to me and even unfathomable.  I think most people just want to go about their daily lives without fear of some government squabble murdering them while trying to get a workout in, or trying to make it to work.  It's pretty crazy that with all of the advancement of our civilization, war has turned even less personal and the loss of life seems almost expected.  Personally, I would prefer the days of swinging swords to suddenly having your entire family murdered in a second as a jet flies by...  If you haven't seen some of the horrific clips out there from this war, do yourself a favor and don't search for them.  It's absolutely heartbreaking.

War, war is hell. Always was, always will be. That has not changed, if anything it became more humane due to public outcries. There is a lot of misinformation going around, which is understandable when literal lives are at stake, but I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, so giving the benefit of the doubt, your naiveness is frankly, shocking and perhaps telling of your overall selective world view? Unless you're really young, have you considered why you're just finding out that there are atrocities in every "conflict" and all sides? Why haven't you seen horrific video clips from previous conflicts, surely theres abundance of them on the internet? Perhaps they were less brutal? Or there were less civilian casualties? Or perhaps some other reason?

Yemen

According to UN estimates, the war has directly caused the death of over 3,000 children as of December 2020; while indirect causes of the war (lack of food, health and infrastructure) have led to additional deaths. The UN estimates that at the end of 2021, 70% of all the casualties of the war (around 259,000) are children under five.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2014%E2%80%93present)

Syria

3,847 civilians killed by Coalition airstrikes in Syria
6,100+ civilians killed by ISIL in Syria (and up to 3200 missing prisoners of ISIL) per SOHR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

Iraq

Estimated 6,000+ civilians killed by Coalition airstrikes in Iraq
At least 28,000 civilians killed by ISIL in Iraq, with potentially up to 20 thousand more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_Iraq_(2014%E2%80%932021)

Kosovo

Civilian deaths caused by NATO bombing: 489–528 (per Human Rights Watch) or 454–2,500 (HLC and Tanjug figures); also includes China 3 Chinese journalists killed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

Afghanistan

Civilians killed: 46,319

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your ignorance to suffering is really telling about you/your upbringing. And no, powerful don't bear the consequences, you can even sanction ICC if you have enough power, that's why everyone wants more power. "US sanctions International Criminal Court officials" https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/us-icc-sanctions/index.html

[DaRude]

LOCAL IN UKRAINE "NO WAR HERE" & COMPLETELY FAKE ASS MSM NEWS FOOTAGE & NARRATIVE
https://www.bitchute.com/video/htTj6cGnTgZC/

This is turning into a pretty good comedy.  Especially enjoyable is watching the reactions of the (highly vaxxed) mouth breathers who watch the mainstream media and think it's real.

Tel-lie-vision the biggest enemy there is

“All the world’s a stage”

William Shakespeare




https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1498090127146504193

Blow up all gas pipelines from Russia.  Cut them off.

Umm wtf now you want to cut Europe from gas Dont think taking Europe hostage is a good idea

You have to pressure the oligarchs to stop Putin's adventures. 

I suspect he will drop a nuclear weapon very soon.  The only question is where.  Probably somewhere away from the future Russian Empire territory.  Maybe some military base on some island away from everything.

You appear to be very emotionally involved in this conflict, which is understandable, but it looks to be clouding your judgement. EU and US indicated that they do not want to make this regional conflict into a global one. There are always two willing parties to every transaction. EU continues to purchase gas from Russia, and over Nordstream 1. Ukraine trying to terrorize people into direct conflict by blowing up pipelines going to EU, will surely be counterproductive to Ukrainian cause. If anything to make up for lost capacity they'll be forced to turn on Nordstream 2

[decodx]

Russian foreign policy, as subtle as a drunk bear:

https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/1802083/

Пocтaвки opyжия идeйным нacлeдникaм нaциcтcкoгo пocoбникa C.Бaндepы зacтaвляeт нac вoлeй-нeвoлeй зaдaтьcя pитopичecким вoпpocoм – a нacкoлькo вceoбъeмлющим и зaвepшeнным был пpoцecc дeнaцификaции в caмoй Гepмaнии пocлe пopaжeния вo Bтopoй Mиpoвoй вoйнe?

The supply of weapons to the ideological heirs of the Nazi accomplice S. Bandera makes us ask a rhetorical question - how comprehensive and complete was the process of denazification in Germany itself after the defeat in World War II?

Seriously, where do they come up with this stuff? And they expect people to buy it?

[LTU_btc]

Maybe the ideal scenario is that the sanctions hurt the Russian elite enough that they oust Putin (which would mean assassinate Putin). Probably the only (or at least safest) way to bring him down is from the inside. Whether that's oligarchs or top military officials, or some combination of the two, who knows, and who knows if it's even remotely likely.

Maybe when Russian oligarchs will realize that economics and whole country is in such deep shit like never before, they will start pushing Putin to end war. I think it's not bad sign that Roman Abramovich was involved in negotiation today.
But at the same time I'm afraid that Putin can feel pushed into corner without any way back. His recent decisions isn't rational and he can drop nuclear weapon. It would be end for him, but at the same time it would be end for half of world.

Seriously, where do they come up with this stuff? And they expect people to buy it?

Well, such statements from Russian foreign ministry is usual stuff. Seems that cock supply to it from Argentina never stoped (explanation for people not familiar with this stuff is below:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/23/russian-embassy-cocaine-buenos-aires-police-arrests

[theymos]

The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) is putting out daily battle updates. Apparently Russia has been bringing in a lot of tanks, and ISW predicts that they will do a major, much more destructive attack on Kyiv tomorrow.

What I know, that during president election in 2018, 3/4 of all votes were for him. In addition there were those who did not vote. I count that 1/4 of Russian population is suffering from sanctions and etc. Some people made wrong decisions, and now "all those Russians" turned bad immediately. I bet there are places right now where you are got punched in the face for being Russian, even though you did nothing wrong.

I am sick and tired from all that crap from TV. "Stop Russia", "Russians are bad". The people who made decisions are bad. Why blame whole nation when mistakes were done by few people. For example if I in the US I got robbed by a black person and start a picket "Black people are criminals", "Black lives matter" community will disassemble me into molecules next minute.

I dont know who I am really is. Born in USSR, speak Russian, have non-Russian nationality and live in European country. I dont have any connections to Russia. I was only there several times on excursion or passing by. But when I speak Russian on public people look at me like I was that person who bombed Kiev or fired an automatic burst on civilians hour ago.

I haven't seen much attacking of the Russian people, and in fact I've seen several government officials and media sources specifically saying that the Russian people aren't at fault here. (That's just from where I'm sitting in the US, of course - it might be different where you are.)

Certainly, nobody should blame the Russian people for this. When ancient Romans invaded some innocent place, could you blame the Roman's slaves for making the soldiers' weapons? To a greater or lesser degree, it's the same sort of thing for every government, including the US. If you are compelled by fate to be a citizen of some country, compelled by force to pay taxes to support your country, etc., then you bear no responsibility for what you are compelled to do, and you do not have a responsibility to put yourself at personal risk to make your country less evil. In my view, even "perfect" democracy would not change this. The average Russian bears zero responsibility for this invasion, just as I disclaim any responsibility whatsoever for the various atrocities committed by the US in the middle east and elsewhere.

But that doesn't mean that Russians should blame the West for their suffering. Putin and other top Russian-government officials bear primary responsibility: they started this aggressive war, accepting that it might cause various forms of suffering for the Russian people. In war, it's always the ordinary people who suffer most rather than the ones who are chiefly responsible for the war, tragically. If Russia had attacked eg. Turkey, then NATO would respond with actual boots on the ground instead of sanctions, and yet the people dying would be ordinary (probably lower-class) NATO-citizens and Russians. Putin, Biden, and the rest of the ruling class wouldn't be out there getting shot.

I live in Russia and I have a ticket to Georgia on my hands. [...]
The borders are closed and those who did not have time to leave become hostages of the regime. People will simply work and continue to deduct a huge percentage from wages in the form of taxes to the state, thereby supporting the regime against which sanctions are directed. For example with each of my purchases in any store, I have a tax deducted that will support this state. Thus, some the sanctions will work to maintain the regime. [...]
I have constantly heard before about the struggle for human rights, about independence and other wonderful values that are just as close to me, but sanctions in the form of closing borders and lack of support for ordinary citizens seem to say "Russians are not worthy of this, we are absolutely indifferent to their fate." The few remaining oppositionists and human rights defenders in Russia who are close in spirit to European values also turned out to be just Russian garbage. That's how equality works.

I hope you're able to get out of Russia! Everyone deserves freedom, no matter where they were born, or to whom.

I think it'd be a great idea for the West to welcome Russian immigrants/refugees in with open arms. Russia already has a very low birth rate, so depleting their population even more would essentially be an additional type of economic warfare, and helping ordinary people escape the sanctions would make them a little less cruel. Unfortunately, I don't think that the West will actually do this, since a lot of people have the incorrect view that the economy is a zero-sum game where immigrants are stealing resources from the destination country's existing citizens. And although I don't think that most Western leaders are actively hostile to the Russian people overall, they probably are too indifferent to the incredible suffering that their sanctions will cause to their fellow man.

[icopress]

The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) is putting out daily battle updates. Apparently Russia has been bringing in a lot of tanks, and ISW predicts that they will do a major, much more destructive attack on Kyiv tomorrow.

Crimea axis: Russian forces continued limited advances on two axes out of Crimea—north toward Zaprozhia and west toward Mykolayiv, reaching the outskirts of Mykolayiv on February 28. Russia may struggle to fully supply both axes of advance and may be forced to choose which advance to prioritize.

I am nearby ... and I can say with confidence that Mykolaiv is very well fortified, besides, it is a Ukrainian harbor that has a lot of drawbridges, the Russian military yesterday tried to land troops on the other side of the river, but the city's mobile groups successfully fought back.

In addition, today's negotiations are only a preparation for the second round of negotiations and Moscow will do everything to be in a winning position, so I expect that in the next 24 hours Kiev and Mariupol will get the most. Although everything can turn out quite differently ... since there is also a Nuclear Power Plant in Zaporozhye, (control over Mykolaiv and Zaporozhye will deprive Ukraine of 50% of energy).

At the moment, the situation is quite complicated, especially considering the fact that there is an active nuclear power plant very close by, which is probably why the residents of the Mykolaiv region are no less alarmed than the residents of Kyiv or Mariupol, (dry law, and a 12-hour curfew).

[suchmoon]

One of the things that strikes (no pun intended) me in this invasion is this persistent image:



I mean... I'm not an expert in how missiles are supposed to work, but I'm guessing not like this? These are just a few examples I grabbed from news, makes me wonder what's the actual rate of duds. Also illustrates how Russians are totally definitely not targeting civilians, it's those damn Ukrainians moving playgrounds and apartment buildings into the path of missiles.

[onecall123]

As during the Cold War, polar flights must be brought back. It is all I see when Russia bans those who have already banned them! Such a thing seems unthinkable for a modern country. What a tragedy. Ukraine needs prayers. Donate if you can. So many innocent children have been killed already and will be killed in the near future. Is it possible that this is happening in the middle of Europe in the 21st century.

About 70% of gas and oil supplied by Russia is used in Europe. Oil and gas prices are also rising in other countries due to this conflict between Russia and Ukraine. Peaceful dialogue is the best way to end this war.

[shahzadafzal]

[bakasabo]

Peaceful dialogue is the best way to end this war.

As far as I know, both countries want to negotiate everything by dialogue since  2014. They both are either stubborn as donkeys, or stupid, or childish. Both stand only on their own "we want" and dont go on compromises. Yesterday they had a dialogue at Belarus border. And it did not work well. Everything continues. It will end with either total destruction of one or both sides, or until "father" comes and slap both kids. However in case of Russia, it wont work. It will end when there is nothing left to fight for. Or it will be like Arab–Israeli conflict - endless war that started century ago.

[KingsDen]

There are many inconsistencies in this war;

The Russian Army lack the will power to destroy as much as Putin wanted;

I watch where they were confronted many times by civilians;

I watch where civilians make body shield to prevent Russian army's advancement and they will turn back.

The soldiers are fighting a war they do not intend to fight.

I hate to be in army;

I cannot be a soldier;

How would I kill my conscience and emotion in order to obey am order;

Many soldiers fight and do not know the reason they fight;

Russians believe they are fighting US by proxy;

Russians believe US is fighting them by proxy;

Yet, the poor is vulnerable and defenceless;

They possess nuclear weapons and yet they have laws not to use them, what is the essence of having it at first.

Shun war let us labour for peace;

Peace has no distinction!

[Erumo]

Hope that in the end the words Russia or Russians wont become curse words.

"There are no bad nations, there are bad people."

[paxmao]

Some of the horrific video clips I've seen from this war really illustrates how war has changed.  Seeing tanks runover cars on the freeway like they're playing grand theft auto, or seeing cyclists having bombs dropped on their heads are things that are just unexpected to me and even unfathomable.  I think most people just want to go about their daily lives without fear of some government squabble murdering them while trying to get a workout in, or trying to make it to work.  It's pretty crazy that with all of the advancement of our civilization, war has turned even less personal and the loss of life seems almost expected.  Personally, I would prefer the days of swinging swords to suddenly having your entire family murdered in a second as a jet flies by...  If you haven't seen some of the horrific clips out there from this war, do yourself a favor and don't search for them.  It's absolutely heartbreaking.

War, war is hell. Always was, always will be. That has not changed, if anything it became more humane due to public outcries. There is a lot of misinformation going around, which is understandable when literal lives are at stake, but I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, so giving the benefit of the doubt, your naiveness is frankly, shocking and perhaps telling of your overall selective world view? Unless you're really young, have you considered why you're just finding out that there are atrocities in every "conflict" and all sides? Why haven't you seen horrific video clips from previous conflicts, surely theres abundance of them on the internet? Perhaps they were less brutal? Or there were less civilian casualties? Or perhaps some other reason?
...
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your ignorance to suffering is really telling about you/your upbringing. And no, powerful don't bear the consequences, you can even sanction ICC if you have enough power, that's why everyone wants more power. "US sanctions International Criminal Court officials" https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/us-icc-sanctions/index.html

On this I have to agree and add that Europe has risen its voice and started acting on the economic front only when Putin threatened directly everything that is dear to the EU and the US - democracies (even if imperfect), their ability to strengthen their relations to other countries if they wish to do so and to be free to enter into the most beneficial agreements they can choose within their possibilities.

In other words, Ukraine does not have less rights to reach agreements with others than Putin or than any other country. Forcing them into neutrality, hindering their rights to associate or extend their diplomacy is something that Western Europe just cannot accept. Putin setting terms on what the NATO can do or not do in terms of accepting members is not acceptable. Putin giving himself the Tzardom or all that surrounds him because "he would not feel safe otherwise" feels too much like the old USSR regime.

And do not get me wrong, I am no happier about the US intervening in Latin America than I am with Putin.

[paxmao]

...

Certainly, nobody should blame the Russian people for this. When ancient Romans invaded some innocent place, could you blame the Roman's slaves for making the soldiers' weapons? To a greater or lesser degree, it's the same sort of thing for every government, including the US. If you are compelled by fate to be a citizen of some country, compelled by force to pay taxes to support your country, etc., then you bear no responsibility for what you are compelled to do, and you do not have a responsibility to put yourself at personal risk to make your country less evil. In my view, even "perfect" democracy would not change this. The average Russian bears zero responsibility for this invasion, just as I disclaim any responsibility whatsoever for the various atrocities committed by the US in the middle east and elsewhere.

While I agree that all Russians cannot be blamed for Putin's decisions, as they mostly do not get either a say on it or any means of opposing these without an immense risk to their lives and livelihoods, as a citizen of a Democracy, I do feel I am much more responsible for what my country does than people on authoritarian regimes are. I do feel I need to do something if my government does not have at least a morally acceptable conduct.

In other words, when you live in a Democracy (imperfect or not), you do not get to blame others - such is the burden of freedom and so heavy that many choose to discharge it and accept dictators.

[DaRude]

Some of the horrific video clips I've seen from this war really illustrates how war has changed.  Seeing tanks runover cars on the freeway like they're playing grand theft auto, or seeing cyclists having bombs dropped on their heads are things that are just unexpected to me and even unfathomable.  I think most people just want to go about their daily lives without fear of some government squabble murdering them while trying to get a workout in, or trying to make it to work.  It's pretty crazy that with all of the advancement of our civilization, war has turned even less personal and the loss of life seems almost expected.  Personally, I would prefer the days of swinging swords to suddenly having your entire family murdered in a second as a jet flies by...  If you haven't seen some of the horrific clips out there from this war, do yourself a favor and don't search for them.  It's absolutely heartbreaking.

War, war is hell. Always was, always will be. That has not changed, if anything it became more humane due to public outcries. There is a lot of misinformation going around, which is understandable when literal lives are at stake, but I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, so giving the benefit of the doubt, your naiveness is frankly, shocking and perhaps telling of your overall selective world view? Unless you're really young, have you considered why you're just finding out that there are atrocities in every "conflict" and all sides? Why haven't you seen horrific video clips from previous conflicts, surely theres abundance of them on the internet? Perhaps they were less brutal? Or there were less civilian casualties? Or perhaps some other reason?
...
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your ignorance to suffering is really telling about you/your upbringing. And no, powerful don't bear the consequences, you can even sanction ICC if you have enough power, that's why everyone wants more power. "US sanctions International Criminal Court officials" https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/us-icc-sanctions/index.html

On this I have to agree and add that Europe has risen its voice and started acting on the economic front only when Putin threatened directly everything that is dear to the EU and the US - democracies (even if imperfect), their ability to strengthen their relations to other countries if they wish to do so and to be free to enter into the most beneficial agreements they can choose within their possibilities.

In other words, Ukraine does not have less rights to reach agreements with others than Putin or than any other country. Forcing them into neutrality, hindering their rights to associate or extend their diplomacy is something that Western Europe just cannot accept. Putin setting terms on what the NATO can do or not do in terms of accepting members is not acceptable. Putin giving himself the Tzardom or all that surrounds him because "he would not feel safe otherwise" feels too much like the old USSR regime.

And do not get me wrong, I am no happier about the US intervening in Latin America than I am with Putin.

We've been through this before in the 60s. Russia tries to bring nukes to US borders. US blockades Cuba, disregarding its rights as a sovereign nation as well as all international laws. Logic was that nuclear weapons close to US borders is unacceptable risk and is an existential threat to the country, which overrules everything else.  World got together, cooler heads prevailed, and world agreed that sneaky Russians tried to sneak nukes too close to US borders, nuke nations have right to feel threatened, and its better that nuke states each stay away from each other in their own rooms. MAD was born. Now, fast forwards few decades. Concept of "existential thread" is being challenged once again, nukes are getting brought to a border but this time with a side of more democracy, favorable trade agreements, monetary policy, and cookies. If this is successful, rinse repeat, offer great trading terms with a side of nukes to Taiwan (offer Taiwan to join NATO), before China decides to bring great monitory policy, fortune cookies with a side of nukes to Cuba again (offer Cuba to join ChinaWarsawPact).

[suchmoon]

nukes are getting brought to a border but this time with a side of more democracy, favorable trade agreements, monetary policy, and cookies

What are you on about... there are no nukes to the east of the "old" NATO in Europe... other than Russian nukes in Kaliningrad, in Russia proper, and now apparently soon in Belarus. None of the new NATO members are getting nukes.