Do you prefer lots of promotions over better RTP?

[Kakmakr]

One of the casinos where I gamble have gone totally overboard with their marketing campaigns. They are spending millions of dollars on marketing and to fund this, they introduced several projects to increase traffic to their site. Now, I am not going to say which site it is.... but I guess a lot of people play there.  

The site is great ....but the gambling experience has deteriorated... because the RTP has been nerf'ed to hell and gone to pay for these projects.

Now my question is this... do you prefer that a casino offer loads of promotions and campaigns and sponsorships and sacrifice RTP in favor of that.... or will you rather have a decent gambling experience with a better RTP?

Let's discuss...  

[judeafante]

I prefer the latter, casinos should make their player stay and make them feel that they are playing at the best casino on the internet, those marketing and advertising are useless if they cannot back up what they are promoting, sure the number of new members will increase but the number of people who continue to play will diminish, they should invest more on their feature and RTP, they must see to it that they can maintain players.

[virasog]

One of the casinos where I gamble have gone totally overboard with their marketing campaigns. They are spending millions of dollars on marketing and to fund this, they introduced several projects to increase traffic to their site. Now, I am not going to say which site it is.... but I guess a lot of people play there.  

Aren't they wasting their money and resources if they are not focusing on RTP but only want to increase traffic on their site. Due to extensive marketing, many new gamblers may visit their site but the more important thing is how many of them retain their presence on that casino. If people just come, play and never return back, then what's the use of such gamblers and such traffic. A gambling site always wants gamblers who regularly play at their site and become their loyal customers.

[markk1]

One of the casinos where I gamble have gone totally overboard with their marketing campaigns. They are spending millions of dollars on marketing and to fund this, they introduced several projects to increase traffic to their site. Now, I am not going to say which site it is.... but I guess a lot of people play there.  

The site is great ....but the gambling experience has deteriorated... because the RTP has been nerf'ed to hell and gone to pay for these projects.

Now my question is this... do you prefer that a casino offer loads of promotions and campaigns and sponsorships and sacrifice RTP in favor of that.... or will you rather have a decent gambling experience with a better RTP?

Let's discuss...  

The RTP can only be lowered in in-house games such as dice, plinko, limbo, etc. In all other games from the original providers, a fixed RTP cannot be changed by the casino, taking into account licensed games.
Very low RTP in betfury in-house games, I think it is the lowest of all crypto casinos. The RTP is not even indicated anywhere on the casino website, it can only be ask in live chat.

RTP - Return To Player
100% - house edge = RTP

[Hamphser]

I prefer the latter, casinos should make their player stay and make them feel that they are playing at the best casino on the internet, those marketing and advertising are useless if they cannot back up what they are promoting, sure the number of new members will increase but the number of people who continue to play will diminish, they should invest more on their feature and RTP, they must see to it that they can maintain players.

Its not bad if they pour out heavily in terms of budget on marketing but its true that they should really be minding about for long term which would really make players stay for long time and not

just good in the duration of such promotion or marketing because that would be still useless.If players do see that they are comfortable with the current site they are dealing with
in terms of those RTP and other similar aspects then they would definitely stay but if not then they would just simply skip and look for another one.

[zidanw]

Serious gamblers are not that curious about promotions, they are more concerned with their bankroll and want to make money on the site. Promotions are never promotions that really make you rich or that give your bank roll a huge boost. That is the same as with bonuses, which often fall within the scope of promotions. People are usually not interested in such bonuses, because there are always different conditions attached to it, nobody wants that.

[passwordnow]

The marketing will always be second if you've been enjoying to gamble on that casino. You're no longer the target of them since you've been acquired with their first marketing campaigns.
As usual, gamblers wanting to have the best experience and any possible feature that will benefit our stay so, many would say that it's always best to consider having the best experience with the typical and better rtp that we used to experience from them.

[AmoreJaz]

I prefer the latter, casinos should make their player stay and make them feel that they are playing at the best casino on the internet, those marketing and advertising are useless if they cannot back up what they are promoting, sure the number of new members will increase but the number of people who continue to play will diminish, they should invest more on their feature and RTP, they must see to it that they can maintain players.

Its not bad if they pour out heavily in terms of budget on marketing but its true that they should really be minding about for long term which would really make players stay for long time and not

just good in the duration of such promotion or marketing because that would be still useless.If players do see that they are comfortable with the current site they are dealing with
in terms of those RTP and other similar aspects then they would definitely stay but if not then they would just simply skip and look for another one.

RTP is i believe one feature that some gamblers will favour over these promotions. because in the long run, they want a better deal with RTP rather than joining these promotions which is also based on your skills or luck. but for gamblers who are not joining such promotions, they will prefer that the RTP is more competitive. otherwise, they will just move on to another reputable casino which is offering a better rtp to their players.

[Fortify]

One of the casinos where I gamble have gone totally overboard with their marketing campaigns. They are spending millions of dollars on marketing and to fund this, they introduced several projects to increase traffic to their site. Now, I am not going to say which site it is.... but I guess a lot of people play there.  

The site is great ....but the gambling experience has deteriorated... because the RTP has been nerf'ed to hell and gone to pay for these projects.

Now my question is this... do you prefer that a casino offer loads of promotions and campaigns and sponsorships and sacrifice RTP in favor of that.... or will you rather have a decent gambling experience with a better RTP?

Let's discuss...  

It's difficult to have sympathy in this situation because any long term casino player is going to lose because the RTP will always be set against them. A casino has bills to pay - servers, staff, security, licensing and much more. You're never going to be in a situation where the casino hands out a lot more than they've got coming in. On the contrary, if those promotions are accessible to existing and regular players you're more likely to be able to grind a small profit out of them rather than games that are guaranteed to be stacked against you. Free bets and free spins can accumulate small amounts over time which can be much more useful to a discerning player.

[crzy]

Their focus should be more on making their players more comfortable playing on the site than to focus on their marketing, something is wrong with that site who only focuses on marketing strategy to attract more gamblers while sacrificing their whole system. If you feel its not good anymore, better to look for other good site who don’t have much marketing activities and yet, gamblers are still coming to them. I wonder if that site is also here in the forum?

[ultraBTC]

In all other games from the original providers, a fixed RTP cannot be changed by the casino, taking into account licensed games.

Technically speaking, online casinos can't change RTP from reputable 3rd party providers.

But, in reality, online casinos can request lowered RTP versions of the same slot game(s) from the provider(s). Of course, if a game provider offers multiple RTP settings. And most game providers nowadays indeed offer multiple RTP versions. That's a trend in recent years.

[Doell]

Now my question is this... do you prefer that a casino offer loads of promotions and campaigns and sponsorships and sacrifice RTP in favor of that.... or will you rather have a decent gambling experience with a better RTP?

A lots of promotions etc and sacrifice RTP, it will not satisfy the average gambler. Well It's quite clear that if are cornered with only that choice, it is likely that gamblers will choose at the best RTP playing experience. In the past I used want to take more promotions and bonuses from the bookie, but if the RTP is not good it just waste my time, who wants a losing streak with long period. But also I don't know which gambling site you're referring to I think that's privacy, answer your question I pick better RTP.

[24Kt]

In all other games from the original providers, a fixed RTP cannot be changed by the casino, taking into account licensed games.

Technically speaking, online casinos can't change RTP from reputable 3rd party providers.

But, in reality, online casinos can request lowered RTP versions of the same slot game(s) from the provider(s). Of course, if a game provider offers multiple RTP settings. And most game providers nowadays indeed offer multiple RTP versions. That's a trend in recent years.

I believe, the casino can negotiate the RTP from their providers. Since they have the prerogative to add them in their list, they can always have their say about the offered services. And if it is only a small adjustments, I think, the 3rd party provider can modify those small changes to accommodate the request of their client. But for players who are not joining the promotions or contests, the would definitely prefer a better deal of RTP from the casino.

[timerland]

One of the casinos where I gamble have gone totally overboard with their marketing campaigns. They are spending millions of dollars on marketing and to fund this, they introduced several projects to increase traffic to their site. Now, I am not going to say which site it is.... but I guess a lot of people play there.  

The site is great ....but the gambling experience has deteriorated... because the RTP has been nerf'ed to hell and gone to pay for these projects.

Now my question is this... do you prefer that a casino offer loads of promotions and campaigns and sponsorships and sacrifice RTP in favor of that.... or will you rather have a decent gambling experience with a better RTP?

Let's discuss...  

I would definitely prefer better RTP.

Usually the marketing campaigns are designed to favor the casino anyway, so it's not like you get much of an edge off that.

For instance, a lot of deposit bonuses are actually -EV in the sense that if you choose to accept it, you have a lower RTP.

If you're a highroller you probably don't want any of these bonuses that are often cumbersome to claim. Rather have better gaming experience and house edge in general.

[robelneo]

The best promotion or marketing has always been user's experience or word of the mouth and if you're going to launch marketing it should be on your best feature because these are what attract players to be loyal you can make gamblers come into your casino but what will make them stay
is their experience, you can make the number of users but not the profit if they keep joining and not staying that is why casinos are giving a lot of perks so people will continue to play, so it should be on the improvement of the casino it should be the main focus.

[ultraBTC]

One of the casinos where I gamble have gone totally overboard with their marketing campaigns. They are spending millions of dollars on marketing and to fund this, they introduced several projects to increase traffic to their site. Now, I am not going to say which site it is.... but I guess a lot of people play there.  

The site is great ....but the gambling experience has deteriorated... because the RTP has been nerf'ed to hell and gone to pay for these projects.

Now my question is this... do you prefer that a casino offer loads of promotions and campaigns and sponsorships and sacrifice RTP in favor of that.... or will you rather have a decent gambling experience with a better RTP?

Let's discuss...  

For me, the answer is pretty clear here. I agree with most of the previous posters - RTP is what matters. So let's check out three different scenarios here. (Scenario A - Highest RTP, Scenario B - lowered RTP settings & Scenario C - lowered RTP but with a great promotion included.)

Just for simplicity, we will choose a no-variance slot game (zero variance). In a no-variance game, every single spin/bet returns the bet-amount minus house-edge. Of course, in reality, such a game would be boring as hell and with no excitement at all, but we will get to the point.

SCENARIO A.)


A player deposits 200 USD, playing his favorite slot game at default (highest) RTP settings = 96% RTP in online casino AAA.


● Deposit = 200 USD
● Bet per spin = 1 USD
● House edge = 4%
● Loss per spin = 0.04 USD (4 cents)


After 100 spins, a player has a loss of 4 dollars and a balance of 196 USD. He continues, and after another 100 spins, his balance is 192 USD. Fast forward, and he goes bust with a total of = 4976 SPINS per session.

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SCENARIO B.)


A player deposits 200 USD, playing his favorite slot game at lowered RTP settings = 92% RTP in online casino BBB.

● Deposit = 200 USD
● Bet per spin = 1 USD
● House edge = 8%
● Loss per spin = 0.08 USD (8 cents)


After 100 spins, a player has a loss of 8 dollars and a balance of 192 USD. He continues, and after another 100 spins, his balance is 184 USD. Fast forward, and he goes bust with a total of = 2488 SPINS per session.

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4976 SPINS VS 2488 SPINS session?


Now, the player noticed a cool casino with a superb 100% deposit match bonus promo (at the same 92% RTP settings as in scenario b.) Let's have a look:


SCENARIO C.)


A player deposits 200 USD, playing his favorite slot game at lowered RTP settings = 92% RTP in online casino CCC, but gets a great 100% match bonus. And wagering requirements are only 30xdeposit. Indeed, it nowadays's a solid deal.


● Deposit = 200 USD
● Player's Balance = 400 USD
● Bet per spin = 1 USD
● House edge = 8%
● Loss per spin = 0.08 USD (8 cents)


After 100 spins, a player has a loss of 8 dollars and a balance of 392 USD. He continues, and after another 100 spins, his balance is 384 USD. Fast forward, and he goes bust with a total of = 4988 SPINS per that session.

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Well, that's pretty much similar to SCENARIO A. What about wagering?


Wagering requirements = 30x200 = 6000 USD (or 6000 spins at $1 bet per spin). The player busted before even finishing wagering requirements. (And I even haven't mentioned other Terms & Conditions related to the bonus that most online casinos have, such as restricted casino games, max bet per spin, max payout with a bonus and similar...)


Which of those three scenarios would you choose? The choice is yours ;-) SCENARIO A VS SCENARIO B VS SCENARIO C ? RTP over PROMOTIONS?

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For simplicity, we have taken out the variance side of slots here. With high-variance included, the lucky player playing SCENARIO B could win a huge 10000x bet-win early in the game and cash out a massive amount. But, as the sample gets more significant, as the number of spins reaches millions/billions, the overall stats for the casino will be near the Theoretical RTP.

It's the player's choice to choose the best odds. And it's definitely on the side of RTP over Promotions. Unless we go back in time - some two decades ago, where bonuses & promos were not tied up to heavy wagering and additional terms.

[DarkStar_]

For simplicity, we have taken out the variance side of slots here. With high-variance included, the lucky player playing SCENARIO B could win a huge 10000x bet-win early in the game and cash out a massive amount. But, as the sample gets more significant, as the number of spins reaches millions/billions, the overall stats for the casino will be near the Theoretical RTP.

It's the player's choice to choose the best odds. And it's definitely on the side of RTP over Promotions. Unless we go back in time - some two decades ago, where bonuses & promos were not tied up to heavy wagering and additional terms.

I think you have to look at promotions that aren't just X% deposit bonus with Y rollover, since many other types of promotions exist. Wager contests are a pretty common form of promotion on a lot of sites, and depending on the site they can be almost worthless because of how much whales wager, or attainable due to the site being smaller. Sometimes these can end up +EV, so the promotion is obviously better than just raw RTP.

We've also seen some promotions that are very obviously +EV for the player. Some sites have had a few promotions where you place an outright bet and get a free bet whenever your pick wins, so you might end up with 5-6 freebets if you picked a favourite. I've also seen risk free bet promotions, where your bet is refunded if your pick loses. Again, obviously +EV.

The right answer for the question is really to gamble on multiple sites. When a promotion makes sense for you, play on that site. Otherwise, play on the site that offers the best RTP.

[Kakmakr]

So based on the feedback that I received from you guys so far, it seems that most people would prefer that the RTP must be the primary focus of the casino, to improve the gambler experience.  

There is absolutely no logic in having say 100 promotions a month and sponsoring 10 high profile celebrities and giving your existing clients a piss poor experience at your casino. You spend millions on marketing to get new people to gamble at your site, but you cannot retain them, because most of your budget goes towards marketing and not to increasing the gambling experience.  

Now, what can we as gamblers do to get the casino operators to give more attention to the gambling experience?  

[Bitinity]

Do you mean that a lot of promotions affect the RTP in the casino you are referring to or maybe you know that the casino is lowering the RTP to cover their marketing budget? If it is the latter case, how do you know about it? Is there any way to get a valid information that the casino reduce the RTP of their games to cover their marketing budget? Coming up to which one I prefer, for me it depends on how great the promotion is. If I think that the promotion is worth enough, I'll prefer to choose promotion over RTP. However, if the promotion is not worth for me (mostly about wagering) I'll choose the better RTP.

[Wexnident]

Latter ofc. The former is there to let the casino last longer since it attracts new customers, but if they were only attracted momentarily, then the original meaning of doing it is actually lost. They have to give benefits to players not just in the early stages, but also for the entire length of their stay in their casino. To simplify, marketing strategies are for the casino to profit whether it be short or long term (mostly short term imo). RTP on the other hand, only lets them benefit in the long term imo.

Now, what can we as gamblers do to get the casino operators to give more attention to the gambling experience? 

Other than giving out suggestions, I don't think we can. They're probably thinking about a bunch of stuff as well so I won't judge them arbitrarily, but paying too much attention to promotions over what the users really want can be a red flag if done one too many times.