Ban Appeal For naim027. (SOLVED)

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Lock this thread and bump it periodically.

Lol. This is not a service thread. Lady

You are wrong. Service threads are not the only threads which are allowed to bump. I have a thread I bump it periodically. There are many users who had none service thread they bump it. I asked him to bump it so that some day moderator will notice it and consider the unban. 😉

I disagree with this reasoning, my friend. If he paid you back when he was already banned, he knew that paying you back could already help his case, as it has. About $75-100 is what he was making in a week posting on the forum. To me, it seems like a pretty profitable investment to give back about $100 to get unbanned soon and make $100 a week.

In any case, if he is to be given a second chance, I would not be in a hurry to give it to him. It doesn't have to be tomorrow.

I think the most convenient punishment will be to ban his signature for x month/year. He plagiarized which is no way acceptable but considering the whole situation he deserves a chance too. If this was a bounty hunter then no one would bother to write a word. But since there are many users with many opinions, it means he has done something good to the forum.

[Poker Player]

This is inaccurate assumption. Even if this user got unbanned, it's likely he'll get signature ban for 1-2 years. Within that time, signature campaign condition may be changed for better/worse and he need to make some activity if he wants accepted easier after signature ban period ended.

I do think it is accurate. Why is he likely to get a signature ban? The last two cases that I remember were those of Mpamaegbu and Pokapoka124. In the first case it was a single plagiarism some time ago, so it doesn't have much to do with this case, but he didn't get a signature ban. In Pokapoka's case it was plagiarism several times, so more similar to this one, and he did not receive a signature ban.

If I remember correctly, in both cases there was talk of signature ban.

The rules are clear:

25. If you get banned (temporarily or permanently) and create a new account to continue posting / sending PMs, it's considered ban evasion. The only exception is creating a thread in Meta about your ban.

****ing Bitcointalk encyclopedia.

[JollyGood]

Here is one opinion that we seem to broadly agree on.

I think there is an attempt on his side to definitely try to utilise that account for a signature campaign. There were allegations of alt-accounts, some seem to have substance but that is here not there in the context of the plagiarism case.

And anyway, as you stated there is no way of knowing whether he has already started building up another account as well as if he had ulterior motives for returning the accidentally received funds.

For obvious reasons he did not send me a PM asking to vouch for him 

I wasn't going to write here, but after the recent comments I will give my opinion.

The ban is more than justified. At first it was known that he had plagiarized and he was not banned. And it was shortly after, when the evidence was accumulating and he was caught in contradictions that he was banned.

Personally, I don't care if he is given a second chance or not, but in favor of those who advocate giving him one, I think Ratimov is right.

Bans for plagiarism are perceived by the community as somewhat arbitrary. That people are banned on a case to case basis gives an impression of subjectivity that is not very rigorous, and that is perceived as rather lenient lately.

Naim027 gave me back the btc he received by mistake. The amount of risk does not exceed 100 dollars, but nevertheless, he did not have the slightest reason to return the funds to me since his main account was banned. Definitely deserves a second chance....

He could easily create a new account and not tell anyone about it, and he could keep the money for himself. But he didn't.

That's enough for me to know that this guy deserves a second chance.

I disagree with this reasoning, my friend. If he paid you back when he was already banned, he knew that paying you back could already help his case, as it has. About $75-100 is what he was making in a week posting on the forum. To me, it seems like a pretty profitable investment to give back about $100 to get unbanned soon and make $100 a week.

In any case, if he is to be given a second chance, I would not be in a hurry to give it to him. It doesn't have to be tomorrow.

He could easily create a new account and not tell anyone about it, and he could keep the money for himself. But he didn't.

You do not know if he has created another account and is building it up with another IP, apart from trying to recover this one. You have no way of checking.

Btw icopress did he write you a PM to come to this thread to give your opinion? Because he has written to me, and I doubt I am the only one he has written to. I also doubt if it is even allowed to send these PMs when you have been banned.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

For obvious reasons he did not send me a PM asking to vouch for him  

Why would you think it's important for a case to PM you?

I think there is an attempt on his side to definitely try to utilise that account for a signature campaign. There were allegations of alt-accounts, some seem to have substance but that is here not there in the context of the plagiarism case.

If this is not a context of this plagiarism case then why are you creating unnecessary suspense?

Let's get to the point, you expect users to PM you for any case they have. Two days ago I sent you a PM and I still have not received a response. If I am correct then DireWolfM14 said somewhere that you did not respond his PM too. What indication we should take from it?

[tranthidung]

IIRC signature ban is somehow common when admin/moderator decide to remove permanent ban, although i no longer remember which member who got such treatment.

Previous only head admins can: theymos and Cyrus but since 2019, global moderators can do it too.

Flow is admins collect proof and make reports to global moderators/ admins who will make further investigation, then make decisions to keep the permanent ban or release it with a softer one.

Posts are reported to moderators who check out the report. If the poster needs to be banned, the moderator sends a ban report up to a global mod or admin. The global mod or admin handles all of the ban reports they get at around the same time. Either the admins or global mods don't need to check every account because they trust the moderators to have already done so, or they check quickly because every such report contains references and links to the plagiarism post and to the source text so checking takes little time.

Global mods were given the ability to ban signatures only yesterday. Do you think we can get through all the appeals in one day? Be patient.

[Rikafip]

That was what I was thinking, the moderators are not under any obligation to provide explanations when either temporarily or permanently banning a member. I think I have only seen one instance (not the one you referred to in the Croatian board) where a moderator might have made a comment but they do not give a running commentary.

That's one of the rare things I don't like about this forum, that mods don't answer on such threads. I do understand that no answer is also an answer, but it would make people speculate way less so instead members talking for years (like in RegulusHR case), they could just give a simple answer and end the conversations. Its not like there are many ban appeal cases anyway.

IIRC signature ban is somehow common when admin/moderator decide to remove permanent ban, although i no longer remember which member who got such treatment.

I only know about one case of signature ban and that's lovesmayfamilis (who I remember was quite active on forum despite the signature ban) but I think I saw at least one more but can't remember the name now. I think that measure is seriously underused here, while it should be the obvious choice for the first time offenders.

[JollyGood]

I definitely agree with the speculation part. Not knowing a reason for any form of ban (temporary or permanent) can be problematic especially if the user in question has been contributing positively prior to the ban. In that case it would be normal for users to ask the moderators questions which as you said might receive a reply.

If there could be a moderators thread which they can use to list users that they have banned citing the reasons, it will allow for there less speculation in the general sense. With moderators not really commenting on or replying to questions about banned users, it has the ingredients of causing disharmony simply because of the lack of knowledge surrounding the issue especially when the banned user creates an alt-account to push through their own attempt at unbanning. You are right when you pointed out there are not many ban appeal cases therefore I hope it is something moderators would consider in future.

I do think that using an alt-account to send PMs trying to appeal to certain members to post (in favour about having their ban overturned), is certainly not good form.

That was what I was thinking, the moderators are not under any obligation to provide explanations when either temporarily or permanently banning a member. I think I have only seen one instance (not the one you referred to in the Croatian board) where a moderator might have made a comment but they do not give a running commentary.

That's one of the rare things I don't like about this forum, that mods don't answer on such threads. I do understand that no answer is also an answer, but it would make people speculate way less so instead members talking for years (like in RegulusHR case), they could just give a simple answer and end the conversations. Its not like there are many ban appeal cases anyway.

[tranthidung]

I only know about one case of signature ban and that's lovesmayfamilis (who I remember was quite active on forum despite the signature ban) but I think I saw at least one more but can't remember the name now. I think that measure is seriously underused here, while it should be the obvious choice for the first time offenders.

It should be two cases but I am keen on the first case.

• hacker1001101001
• shasan

If they are not the case, you can find it in [BAN APPEAL]UPDATE: Total table + Ban status (Need feedback from Global mods)

[tranthidung]

I didn't know such list exist, although it's last updated 3 years ago.

It is because OP of that topic turned to be inactive and in recent years, the plagiarism reporting bot stops working.

• A wave of bans: 400 yesterday, 300 the day before. What changed?

Somone's been very busy reporting copy and pasters.

Responding to @Poker Player, i was referring to ChiBitCTy and redsn0w case.

I recall a case that was released even without signature ban or temporary ban in 2019.

[Timelord2067]

Funny how a supposedly banned user is still gaming the system:

https://loyce.club/trust/2022-07-23_Sat_05.08h/131361.html

Trust list for: Timelord2067 (Trust: +13 / =10 / -0) (DT1 (-7) 913 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2022-07-23_Sat_05.08h)
Back to index

~Timelord2067's judgement is Distrusted by:
45. NEW naim027 Banned! (Trust: neutral) (517 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Funny how a supposedly banned user is still gaming the system:

Interesting, a ban user can not post but can chance their trust setting. What else they can change?

When I lost my account then account recovery team helped me to restore the account. It does not seem anyone from the admin including the mods have seen the topic. May be naim027 can reach out to the account recovery team.

[Dic3L0v3r]

After my last post, I was expecting a healthy discussion about my ban from everyone. This thread was locked for a few weeks. But I reopened this thread.

<snip>

You were always on my Distrust list. I think I had removed you for some reason.

It does not seem anyone from the admin including the mods have seen the topic. Maybe naim027 can reach out to the account recovery team.

I already PM'ed two Global Mods Two Administrators and a few other members who have been involved in this thread before.
Yesterday, I got a reply from a Global Mod;

Don't think I've handled the ban and I don't handle ban appeals for bans I didn't create.

This means If theymos banned me. Only his attention matters in this thread. Other Mods won't respond here.

I disagree with this reasoning, my friend. If he paid you back when he was already banned, he knew that paying you back could already help his case, as it has. About $75-100 is what he was making in a week posting on the forum. To me, it seems like a pretty profitable investment to give back about $100 to get unbanned soon and make $100 a week.

What is the guarantee that if I repay the $100 it will help my case to get me unbanned? Why so negative? Why not positively think that? a guy sent me $100 by mistake and I just returned him.

On a random evening, I saw I got some BTC on my Binance, and it was exactly 250K sat. Somehow I thought it might be Icopress. Because I only shared my Segwit Address twice. Both on the Icopress campaign. I had contact With Little Mouse and I was telling him that I got some BTC and don't know where it comes from. He told me "I sent that" immediately he also said, I am joking. Try to figure out who sent that. I logged in to the forum and saw icopress sent me a PM add asking if I can send him back.



Well, I already broke another rule by sending PM. Poker Player already reported it on Ban evading report thread. The only hope now is If Moderators see his report and come to this thread. If it's not going to happen and they ban my alt too (Most likely to happen). Bye bye BitcoinTalk.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Just my $0.02 in favor of lifting his ban.

Just my 0.004 cent, which is twice what The pharmacist offers

Your math sucks The Pharmacist offered 500 times more.

I'm sorry, I....just had to laugh at that one.  I actually pulled out a calculator and did (0.004)($0.01)(500) since I can't move decimals and do multiplication in my head, and you're right on.  I've no idea where igehhh was coming from with that statement, because even $0.004 isn't double what $0.02 is.  Sorry for veering off topic, but I admire your attention to detail.

Funny how a supposedly banned user is still gaming the system:

Interesting, a ban user can not post but can chance their trust setting. What else they can change?

I know naim027 replied to this already, but I'm pretty sure doing what Timelord2067 said he did isn't possible.  Or is it?  There was a problem with banned accounts dumping all their merits a while back (which is sort of similar to this), and that little loophole-thing was quickly taken care of by Theymos.  How much control does a banned member actually have over their account? 

Anyway, good luck naim027.  I'm rooting for you, and I don't believe I'm naive in doing so.  If you get unbanned, don't break the trust I have in you, eh?

[Dic3L0v3r]

I know naim027 replied to this already, but I'm pretty sure doing what Timelord2067 said he did isn't possible.  

Actually Yes. It's Possible. He was on my Distrust list before, After getting banned, I removed him from my distrust list. Last week I added him again.

Anyway, good luck, naim027.  I'm rooting for you, and I don't believe I'm naive in doing so.  If you get unbanned, don't break the trust I have in you, eh?

Thank you very much. I am unlikely to get unbanned. But, I promise I won't break your trust.

My statement strikes me- What I have said in this thread, A single word is not a lie. On another thread, Poker Player said:

If you read me, which I assume you do, naim027, I have nothing personal against you. There was a time when I trusted you, but it's too many things, repeated plagiarism, alt abuse and lies when elucidating your case, plus sending PMs now when it's not allowed.

It takes a long time to gain trust and a short time to lose it, but in your case is that instead of regaining it you make it worse.

@Poker Player, I don't know what you mean by repeated plagiarism while I already explained that, Those few weeks were my newbie days and I never Copied anything after LoyceV Gave me a warning (19 November 2021):

I am not original author at Coindesk. Is it forbidden to share the news here?

Plagiarism will get you banned. You should edit your posts and add the source (link) to all of them.
Even if you don't get banned for plagiarism now, it can happen years later.

Thank you very much. I never knew that. I shared few more posts from the news website. I mentioned the website name at the end. No one even suggested me anything.

BTW, Anything happens for good reasons.
Post edited 💝

About alts abuse, What did I do? Creating an alt account is not abuse. What I have done is, Sent 8 Merits to my alt account and all of them were in the same week. Which I already stated on another thread and seems everyone was satisfied with my explanation. I sent those 8 merits not knowing the rules. Recently I saw a Legendary guy send merit to his alts even though he knows the rules and that was discussed in the forum. That's off-topic here.

About Lies? Sometimes you will find that you really don't have any proof to prove something other than saying I am not lying.

According to you, I broke your trust. But, You don't know what I know man. You really don't know.

[Poker Player]

About Lies? Sometimes you will find that you really don't have any proof to prove something other than saying I am not lying.

Who are you trying to fool?

Are you still claiming you're not a liar?

Have you checked my response carefully? I guess no, I only know the rules after November 19th, 2021 because, on that

Well, I was Wondering Why There is No Dedicated Page For Forum Rules. And Somehow I violated One Of The Rules And I got a Message With the link to this Topic. it's helpful. Thank you Very Much.

Does March start after November on your calendar?

On the other hand:

Anyway, good luck naim027.  I'm rooting for you, and I don't believe I'm naive in doing so.  If you get unbanned, don't break the trust I have in you, eh?

I'm surprised you have trust in him, The Pharmacist. I had it and stopped having it in view of the evidence, but I respect your opinion.

[Dic3L0v3r]

About Lies? Sometimes you will find that you don't have any proof to prove something other than saying I am not lying.

Who are you trying to fool?

I have explained this twice to you. Let me tell you again. I was not regular on this forum. This post was made on March 30, 2021. After this post, I was inactive for another six months. I don't recall why I commented on this thread and why I have said this. So my assumption is, either it was just a shitpost to increase post count. Or maybe I have read the rules partially. One more thing is, Even if read the rules, I don't think I understood the meaning of Plagiarism back then. I am almost good at English. Still, I had to use a translator sometimes. Don't judge by Grammer because I use Grammarly Business to write which was provided by my Employer.

[tranthidung]

In brief, I support naim027 here, like LoyceV and The Pharmacist.
I don't know about naim027 too clear but months ago I saw naim027's thread in Lending child board. As I know, since then, the user started to rank up well enough from Full Member or Senior Member (maybe from Full Member) to the Hero Member rank.

From the disclosure in OP and the user's changes after receiving advice from some experienced members, stop plagiarism, adding sources, I think it is a very open-minded guy. It's good enough. The bad mistake is not delete all past posts or not checking all of them and adding sources.

Additionally but more important, what are all plagiarized posts (~ 70 as I saw in OP) were made for what intention? To share news, to hit post quota, to get money from bounties or campaigns. If during that period, no financial-earning intention behind, I think it is somewhat acceptable. Of course, rule was broken but if no financial incentive behind, it's somewhat acceptable.

Lastly, if we count for how recent plagiarism reports were handled very softly, naim027 should be unbanned or at least a second chance. I know Mr.Right85 even made many plagiarism to earn in Livecasino.io's campaign. Got acceptance from manager and started to plagiarize after that. No ban in any sort, so why naim027 were banned like this?

Weird and unfair! A fair treatment is no ban in any sort for naim027 if the case of Mr.Right85 is a new standard to handle plagiarism case. Obviously, we must consider why naim027 made such plagiarism and compare it to why and when Mr.Right85 made his plagiarism plus their net contribution (how they rank up). If it is the same intention (why) and with same period of experience in the forum (when) plus not significant difference in their net contribution (I believe so), two users must have same ending, either permanently ban or no ban at all or a second chance.

Their net contributions (in topics they created only)

• naim027
• Mr.Right85
• naim027 received less merit from his topics but Mr.Right85 received most of merits in those topics from his national friends. I am not sure how they received merit from their posts, but from topic lists, not big difference in their contribution and how forum members recognize their topics
• If you want to compare their net contributions, you must check their post history, merited posts and exclude national fans. All of these checking, I don't do here

[Poker Player]

I have explained this twice to you. Let me tell you again.

Yes, but your explanations do not convince me.

In brief, I support naim027 here, like LoyceV and The Pharmacist.

Does LoyceV still support him? I have not heard him speak out recently.

[tranthidung]

Does LoyceV still support him? I have not heard him speak out recently.

Maybe I missed some posts here but it is not important and silence does not mean opinion was changed. My opinion is my own and not affected by LoyceV or The Pharmacist.

I wrote my reasons above, clear enough.

[JollyGood]

Funny how a supposedly banned user is still gaming the system:

https://loyce.club/trust/2022-07-23_Sat_05.08h/131361.html

Trust list for: Timelord2067 (Trust: +13 / =10 / -0) (DT1 (-7) 913 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2022-07-23_Sat_05.08h)
Back to index

~Timelord2067's judgement is Distrusted by:
45. NEW naim027 Banned! (Trust: neutral) (517 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

An interesting bit of information, thank you.

I would have thought a ban would constitute not having access to the forum after logging in only to read a message about being banned. However, to be banned and yet still be able to access sections of the forum such as a trust list and read only PMs could have some benefits for the banned user. If that is the case then the banned user should at least use that privilege carefully and not to use it to distrust people who simply agree with the ban.

About Lies? Sometimes you will find that you really don't have any proof to prove something other than saying I am not lying.

Who are you trying to fool?

Are you still claiming you're not a liar?

Have you checked my response carefully? I guess no, I only know the rules after November 19th, 2021 because, on that

Well, I was Wondering Why There is No Dedicated Page For Forum Rules. And Somehow I violated One Of The Rules And I got a Message With the link to this Topic. it's helpful. Thank you Very Much.

Does March start after November on your calendar?

I cannot recall someone literally begging to have his account unbanned for such a long period of time, there is simply a desperation in his attempts to receive a reprieve and that is because he wants to start earning his signature campaign fee. That is his driving factor here and nothing else.

Now, that in itself is not bad thing because c.$400 a month is a lot of money in his country especially to make and that just from one account here. He put a lot of effort in building up his naim027 account for that specific purpose and now it is banned therefore it will hurt financially and in one sense it is understandable he would try every way possible to try to have it rescinded including by sending PMs in the hope of having some support in order to pressure moderators.

I think he should accept the ban and simply move on...