OrangeFren.com - instant, KYC-free, exchange comparison

[OrangeFren]

I think there is some glitch in intercambio.app.
I don't think it's an error, you didn't provide all the parameters, so it looks pretty strange.

So I created an order of 0.003 BTC to XMR, where I wanted alternative trades. The option is two possibilities, but it is impossible that there is such a difference, where Pegasusswap offers 1.13 XMR, while eXch only 0.017 XMR



A few minutes before that I was on the eXch page and at that moment there was less than 1 XMR in the reserves, so I assume that your application recognized the maximum available.
This may be technically all right, but probably at that moment some hint should be given to the user so that he knows the reason for such a difference, otherwise, it may create the wrong impression that one exchange is significantly less favourable than the other.

We'll be removing this. This is a vestige from when we initially wanted Intercambio.app to do multi-part multi-hop swaps. For instance you could swap 2 XMR to BTC on LN by doing 1 XMR straight to BTC on LN and 1 XMR to LTC on eXch and then LTC to BTC on LN on FF. And all of this would be abstracted away for you. We ultimately abandoned the idea, because trade creation was too prone to various failures.

However, one cool remnant of this is that Intercambio.app will make a trade for you that involves a single hop. For instance if you want to swap BTC on LN to Wownero - there are no exchanges that have both. So Intercambio will create a BTC on LN to XMR swap, with say eXch, and then a XMR to WOW swap with Majestic Bank. All in one go. You only need to send coins to the first deposit address and the rest will happen behind the scenes.

[examplens]

However, one cool remnant of this is that Intercambio.app will make a trade for you that involves a single hop. For instance if you want to swap BTC on LN to Wownero - there are no exchanges that have both. So Intercambio will create a BTC on LN to XMR swap, with say eXch, and then a XMR to WOW swap with Majestic Bank. All in one go. You only need to send coins to the first deposit address and the rest will happen behind the scenes.

This is a good idea, although it seems complicated to have full functionality.
What I noticed is that if the deposit is not made immediately after creating the order, there is no option here to update the price and possibly change the relationship. Normal refresh is also non-functional.

Also, it is unclear to me here how the problem would be solved if at some point one of the exchanges asked for KYC, and I, as a user, do not want to provide any additional information. What happens in that case?

[OrangeFren]

This is a good idea, although it seems complicated to have full functionality.
What I noticed is that if the deposit is not made immediately after creating the order, there is no option here to update the price and possibly change the relationship. Normal refresh is also non-functional.

Also, it is unclear to me here how the problem would be solved if at some point one of the exchanges asked for KYC, and I, as a user, do not want to provide any additional information. What happens in that case?

This is an interesting issue. We might be able to solve it. Although not every exchange shares their current rate to us. Some only show the only that was current when the swap was created. I'll see what can be done.

Regarding the KYC - we allow users to select "never-KYC" exchange that promise to us that they will either not require KYC or allow a user to get a refund without KYC.

[dkbit98]

Regarding the KYC - we allow users to select "never-KYC" exchange that promise to us that they will either not require KYC or allow a user to get a refund without KYC.

Are there any exchange service listed on OrangeFren allow customers to first check their address before sending?
This sounds like a better option than first sending to exchange, and than later waiting and hoping they will return coins back to you, minus the fees.
 

[OrangeFren]

Are there any exchange service listed on OrangeFren allow customers to first check their address before sending?
This sounds like a better option than first sending to exchange, and than later waiting and hoping they will return coins back to you, minus the fees.
 

Yes there are are!
QuickEx, PegasusSwap, Swapuz and Exolix. Just make sure to tell them you're an OrangeFren user, otherwise they might decline it.

[dkbit98]

Yes there are are!
QuickEx, PegasusSwap, Swapuz and Exolix. Just make sure to tell them you're an OrangeFren user, otherwise they might decline it.

Very useful and cool.
I just checked rates for all exchanges you mentioned on orangefren and they all have written notice:
xxx support can provide a free AML score check before you deposit
So it's probably better to give advantage to previously mentioned services when someone is concerned about coin freezing and score rating.

[OrangeFren]

⚠️ eXch has migrated to a new TLD of .net 

We've already rolled out the new TLD on OrangeFren.com, Intercambio.app and in our Chrome Extension (http://github.com/orangefren/OrangeFren-Plugin/releases/tag/v0.2)   

👉eXch.net

Source: link

[examplens]

Yes there are are!
QuickEx, PegasusSwap, Swapuz and Exolix. Just make sure to tell them you're an OrangeFren user, otherwise they might decline it.

With all due respect to Orangefren and your effort, but such features should be available to everyone without any calls to someone's name. Also, this feature should be emphasized more, so that other KYC exchangers will be pressured to implement a similar thing. In the end, it is additional security for the end user.

[OrangeFren]

With all due respect to Orangefren and your effort, but such features should be available to everyone without any calls to someone's name. Also, this feature should be emphasized more, so that other KYC exchangers will be pressured to implement a similar thing. In the end, it is additional security for the end user.

I certainly agree. The whole chain analysis thing is odd. There is no public list of UTXOs considered dirty (aside from for instance a brief list published by OFAC). Yet a significant part of the industry assumes that it is illegal to receive or process tainted UTXOs. This is akin to having secret laws the violation of which would land people in jail.

Presumably this is partly why under Common Law it is considered perfectly legal to accept "tainted" cash.

[dkbit98]

⚠️ eXch has migrated to a new TLD of .net 

Important thing is that onion link remained the same, but big changes are surely coming in eXch.

With all due respect to Orangefren and your effort, but such features should be available to everyone without any calls to someone's name. Also, this feature should be emphasized more, so that other KYC exchangers will be pressured to implement a similar thing. In the end, it is additional security for the end user.

You can't force exchanges to do that if they don't want it. 

I certainly agree. The whole chain analysis thing is odd. There is no public list of UTXOs considered dirty (aside from for instance a brief list published by OFAC). Yet a significant part of the industry assumes that it is illegal to receive or process tainted UTXOs. This is akin to having secret laws the violation of which would land people in jail.

I am sure this was just one more way to attack bitcoin with cooperation of big exchanges, maybe using some blackmail techniques,
and sadly most people accepted this as truth, making bitcoin almost non-fungible in reality.

[Pmalek]

You can't force exchanges to do that if they don't want it. 

Of course not. That goes against their business model of stealing and confiscating money from random people for arbitrary rules that no one knows except for them and their partners in crime. They will not willingly give up such a lucrative pocket-filling technique and help the general public.

Oh no, seems like your coins are dirty. How unfortunate. But don't worry! We will just take them from you to keep you safe. Please come back any time you want. We are here for you 24/7. 

[examplens]

You can't force exchanges to do that if they don't want it. 

Of course not. That goes against their business model of stealing and confiscating money from random people for arbitrary rules that no one knows except for them and their partners in crime. They will not willingly give up such a lucrative pocket-filling technique and help the general public.

Oh no, seems like your coins are dirty. How unfortunate. But don't worry! We will just take them from you to keep you safe. Please come back any time you want. We are here for you 24/7. 

We, as the crypto community and users of exchange services, have let them dictate the rules of the game for too long. It would be good if we could impose certain features and rank exchanges based on that. Unfortunately, one shitty airdrop is enough, and a large number of people will accept even the worst conditions.

[Pmalek]

We, as the crypto community and users of exchange services, have let them dictate the rules of the game for too long. It would be good if we could impose certain features and rank exchanges based on that. Unfortunately, one shitty airdrop is enough, and a large number of people will accept even the worst conditions.

Most people will always be willing to trade security, privacy, and control for convenience. That's why centralized exchanges can get away with anything. They are convenient to use but they constantly attack the three pillars I mentioned. If a CEX noticed a significant outflow of customers and big drop in revenue, they would rethink their latest actions and change the way they operate. But that's Imaginationland. Reality is quite different. 

[OrangeFren]

We're happy to share we've rolled out a new badge to let you know how long each services has been listed on OrangeFren.com for.


In addition, services listed for less than two weeks, still get a yellow warning about being listed for such a short time.

[JollyGood]

This particular issue is quit disheartening because there is consensus that broadly agrees with your sentiments but there is no structure in place to make it in to a mass movement. If there was a strong movement to push back against centralisation it would have forced certain centralised exchanges to adapt to the needs and desires of their customers/clients otherwise face the consequences of a falling income stream.

If a service such as OrangeFren can operate long term without any external meddling, it will remain an important entity to inform people about alternatives to centralised exchanges.

Most people will always be willing to trade security, privacy, and control for convenience. That's why centralized exchanges can get away with anything. They are convenient to use but they constantly attack the three pillars I mentioned. If a CEX noticed a significant outflow of customers and big drop in revenue, they would rethink their latest actions and change the way they operate. But that's Imaginationland. Reality is quite different.  

[OrangeFren]

This particular issue is quit disheartening because there is consensus that broadly agrees with your sentiments but there is no structure in place to make it in to a mass movement. If there was a strong movement to push back against centralisation it would have forced certain centralised exchanges to adapt to the needs and desires of their customers/clients otherwise face the consequences of a falling income stream.

Most people will always be willing to trade security, privacy, and control for convenience. That's why centralized exchanges can get away with anything. They are convenient to use but they constantly attack the three pillars I mentioned. If a CEX noticed a significant outflow of customers and big drop in revenue, they would rethink their latest actions and change the way they operate. But that's Imaginationland. Reality is quite different.  

I think it's worth pointing out that for instance in the case of coins from eXch Coinbase and Binance will accept them, but then FixedFloat and all the WhiteBit resellers won't. I imagine Coinbase and Binance made this decision, because they understand they can be replaced.

[Pmalek]

I think it's worth pointing out that for instance in the case of coins from eXch Coinbase and Binance will accept them, but then FixedFloat and all the WhiteBit resellers won't. I imagine Coinbase and Binance made this decision, because they understand they can be replaced.

The same is true for FixedFloat and WhiteBit. They can easily be replaced and aren't nearly as important nor do they have the market share of big CEXs. Coinbase and Binance are much bigger players than the other two mentioned services and their partners. It's all about self-interest. Coinbase/Binance can quickly change their stance if they decide it's in their own interest to do so. That goes for FixedFloat and WhiteBit as well. 

[JollyGood]

Binance and Coinbase have probably taken a decision based on self-interest. I see no reason why they would have zero problems with accepting deposits from eXch when the transacted values would not be large enough to warrant the response. A worry/fear of losing out on those potential customers does not seem to be the reason.

I think it's worth pointing out that for instance in the case of coins from eXch Coinbase and Binance will accept them, but then FixedFloat and all the WhiteBit resellers won't. I imagine Coinbase and Binance made this decision, because they understand they can be replaced.

[OrangeFren]

Together with kycnot.me we have written a review of silent.link - the anonymous eSIM provider

Our rating: ★★★★★

Read it here: https://blog.orangefren.com/p/review_silentlink
Or here: https://blog.kycnot.me/p/silentlink-review

[dkbit98]

We're happy to share we've rolled out a new badge to let you know how long each services has been listed on OrangeFren.com for.

On the first sight this could confuse some people to think those dates are related with creation of specific exchanges.
I know hovering over date explains what it means in more details, but maybe you could add few more words or just OrangeFren logo with word ON.

Together with kycnot.me we have written a review of silent.link - the anonymous eSIM provider

I think I saw Bitrefill offering similar eSIMs, but I didn't test them myself.