OrangeFren.com - instant, KYC-free, exchange comparison

[dkbit98]

Based on stats from our users FF demands personal information for roughly 1 in 10 000 ~ 20 000 swaps.

How would actually you know if someone is asked by FF to complete KYC verification, and they do that without informing you?
That 1 guy in 20 000 swaps is someone who complained and maybe they didn't want to comply with FF demands.


Maybe this new aggregator could be interesting for OrangeFren, I think it was made by someone from PeachBitcoin:
https://p2p.band/

[examplens]

XMR isn't available on many CEXs, and this leads to the only option being to use DEXs or instant exchanges for conversion. That is the reason exchanges raise the XMR trading fee as they know that the trader do not have much options. I didn't like the fact when eXch increased the XMR fee to 5%. That was too much fee to pay for conversion. If any instant exchange wants to become popular, they should charge lower fees and rates close to the centralized exchanges, and they will get many customers. 

In this particular case, the fee increase on XMR was not a matter of the greed of the exchangers, but was largely influenced by the higher demand for Monero and the need for the exchangers to buy elsewhere in order to cover as much of the requirements for XMR as possible.
As far as I remember, in addition to the "high" fee on the sale of XMR, there was often a lack of quantity that the market demanded

[OrangeFren]

Based on stats from our users FF demands personal information for roughly 1 in 10 000 ~ 20 000 swaps.

How would actually you know if someone is asked by FF to complete KYC verification, and they do that without informing you?
That 1 guy in 20 000 swaps is someone who complained and maybe they didn't want to comply with FF demands.


Maybe this new aggregator could be interesting for OrangeFren, I think it was made by someone from PeachBitcoin:
https://p2p.band/

It's based on users of OrangeFren.com who complained and any user of Intercambio.app that was asked for extra info. We no longer have FF listed on Intercambio, because they required us to start logging and we declined.

I'll check it out!


Video by xenu

OrangeFren.com and Intercambio.app SimpleX bot were shown in a tutorial video by xenu, the admin of antimoonboy.com!

Watch it on:

• YouTube
• Odysee
• Rumble

[examplens]

I saw this on Reddit 
Therefore, they would rather exert private pressure than improve their business practices. There is no need to waste words on the lack of desire to solve scam accusations against them here.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1n3ymrb/comment/nbhi6id/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[OrangeFren]

I saw this on Reddit 
Therefore, they would rather exert private pressure than improve their business practices. There is no need to waste words on the lack of desire to solve scam accusations against them here.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1n3ymrb/comment/nbhi6id/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

I should start charging them per message like some egirls are doing


Stats for August

Stats for searches on OrangeFren.com in August👀

Why is Bitcoin below 25%? Why are people moving to USDC?

XMR: 42.76%
BTC: 24.73%
LTC: 7.82%
ETH: 7.33%
USDT: 5.76%
USDC: 2.73%
SOL: 1.84%
ZEC: 1.09%
BTCLN: 1.06%
TRX: 0.55%
DOGE: 0.41%
ZANO: 0.33%
XRP: 0.32%
DAI: 0.32%
FIRO: 0.26%
BNB: 0.22%
BCH: 0.17%
ADA: 0.15%

[dkbit98]

Why is Bitcoin below 25%? Why are people moving to USDC?

I think people prefer holding bitcoin and spending stablecoins, but there is a chance once day government won't allow them to spend BTC in future if they are not ''appoved'' by them.
If you didn't notice many big tech companies also started their own stablecoins, even Trump clown, and that tells you something.
I personally don't trust any stablecoin, especially not for holding.

[OrangeFren]

I think people prefer holding bitcoin and spending stablecoins, but there is a chance once day government won't allow them to spend BTC in future if they are not ''appoved'' by them.
If you didn't notice many big tech companies also started their own stablecoins, even Trump clown, and that tells you something.
I personally don't trust any stablecoin, especially not for holding.

I wouldn't trust any stables either. As for Bitcoin I'm surprised that LN isn't used more.


FixedFloat meetup on the Azores 🇵🇹

‼️With the help of FixedFloat we're organizing a meetup on the Azores🇵🇹 next week!

Join us on the 13th of September at the Bitcoin-accepting Intz48 in Ponta Delgada🇵🇹

👉Sign up here:
http://OrangeFren.com/event/26

Or here:
https://Meetup.com/ponta-delgada-fixedfloat-com-bitcoin-meetup/events/310870354/

[examplens]

Why is Bitcoin below 25%? Why are people moving to USDC?

When I need to withdraw cash or pay something through the service, I usually convert BTC to a stable coin, thus reducing the chances of freezing funds or incurring a worse exchange rate. I keep the stable coin with me only as long as the transactions last.

XMR: 42.76%
BTC: 24.73%
LTC: 7.82%
ETH: 7.33%
USDT: 5.76%
USDC: 2.73%
SOL: 1.84%
ZEC: 1.09%
BTCLN: 1.06%

I'm more surprised that LTC is above ETH, pretty good demand for this coin.

[ovcijisir]

Has anyone tried to use Octoswap recently?

Last few times when I did search on Orangefren for swapping USDT to BTC, Octoswap has been shown as exchange with best exchange rate. When I visited Octoswap I was surprised how good exchange rate really was Too bad that it didn't work. This issue is going on for few weeks, as I tried to swap smaller amounts of USDT to BTC, and it wasn't fixed so I couldn't make the swap. Haven't tried other pairs though, just USDT (BEP20) -> BTC.

[dkbit98]

Has anyone tried to use Octoswap recently?

Nope.
It looks like they are reporting fake exchange rate to attract more customers, and they are not the first service doing that, but it is strange to see they have OrangeFren guarantee.
I tried testing exchange from USDT to BTC on OrangeFren and Octoswap was on the top of results I received.

Maybe this is the reason they can have different exchange rate, up to 3%:

[ovcijisir]

Has anyone tried to use Octoswap recently?

Nope.
It looks like they are reporting fake exchange rate to attract more customers, and they are not the first service doing that, but it is strange to see they have OrangeFren guarantee.
I tried testing exchange from USDT to BTC on OrangeFren and Octoswap was on the top of results I received.

Maybe this is the reason they can have different exchange rate, up to 3%:

I doubt that the coins are tainted because I never got to the point where I had to fill in input address.

The problem is that they give some imaginary rate of 3046722 BTC for 27 USDT. When I try to proceed just get error:





Tried the same input on Orangefren again (27 USDT for BTC ) and this time the first result is CCE.cash that also gives completely different exchange rate on Orangefren and different on their website. I reported the same issue with this exchange few months ago:

[dkbit98]

I doubt that the coins are tainted because I never got to the point where I had to fill in input address.

The problem is that they give some imaginary rate of 3046722 BTC for 27 USDT. When I try to proceed just get error:

I don't know what they are doing with this rates but you better ask them directly with support.
For their so called ''tainted'' claims they don't really have to ask you anything, they clearly stated they can just charge 3% higher fees, and I am not saying your coins were marked as that or not.
Anyway, I am sure OrangeFren stuff will also get in contact with them about rates.

[LoyceV]

For their so called ''tainted'' claims they don't really have to ask you anything, they clearly stated they can just charge 3% higher fees

That's one "feature" I really dislike! The notion of "taint" is completely arbitrary, so they can selectively apply it. But also, they're basically saying they'll take dirty criminal coins as long as they get a higher fee.

[examplens]

That's one "feature" I really dislike! The notion of "taint" is completely arbitrary, so they can selectively apply it. But also, they're basically saying they'll take dirty criminal coins as long as they get a higher fee.

I wonder how they manage 'tainted' coins, exchangers who use third-party liquidity partners. Obviously, they found a way to prevent LP from freezing their funds. Do they share that extra fee among themselves?

[NotATether]

That's one "feature" I really dislike! The notion of "taint" is completely arbitrary, so they can selectively apply it. But also, they're basically saying they'll take dirty criminal coins as long as they get a higher fee.

I wonder how they manage 'tainted' coins, exchangers who use third-party liquidity partners. Obviously, they found a way to prevent LP from freezing their funds. Do they share that extra fee among themselves?

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they just ran that money through one of the mixers and meanwhile complete your exchange using clean coins they have in reserve. That would explain why they charge higher rates.

Well I guess that's the least we can expect when you can pass dirty coins through Brian Armstrong or the DoJ if you are large enough, and it suddenly becomes clean again.

[OrangeFren]

Has anyone tried to use Octoswap recently?

Last few times when I did search on Orangefren for swapping USDT to BTC, Octoswap has been shown as exchange with best exchange rate. When I visited Octoswap I was surprised how good exchange rate really was Too bad that it didn't work. This issue is going on for few weeks, as I tried to swap smaller amounts of USDT to BTC, and it wasn't fixed so I couldn't make the swap. Haven't tried other pairs though, just USDT (BEP20) -> BTC.

Thanks for the report. I think the issue is our accurate on very small swaps isn't great. We'll make sure OctoSwap start reporting the min swap sizes to us so we can avoid these issues.

That's one "feature" I really dislike! The notion of "taint" is completely arbitrary, so they can selectively apply it. But also, they're basically saying they'll take dirty criminal coins as long as they get a higher fee.

I wonder how they manage 'tainted' coins, exchangers who use third-party liquidity partners. Obviously, they found a way to prevent LP from freezing their funds. Do they share that extra fee among themselves?

I can't speak for OctoSwap specifically, but generally what I've heard services do with tainted coins is they sell them on DEXes. This is one of the reasons why using P2P DEXes is very dangerous as you're likely to end up with extremely tainted coins.

[dkbit98]

That's one "feature" I really dislike! The notion of "taint" is completely arbitrary, so they can selectively apply it. But also, they're basically saying they'll take dirty criminal coins as long as they get a higher fee.

Maybe they are using some mixer services for this type of coins, but I am sure they are earning fees from this.

I can't speak for OctoSwap specifically, but generally what I've heard services do with tainted coins is they sell them on DEXes. This is one of the reasons why using P2P DEXes is very dangerous as you're likely to end up with extremely tainted coins.

Sorry but I can't agree with you on this at all.  
DEX exchanges are NOT a bad thing, and this is the first time I heard about ''extremely tainted coins''.
There is not a single guarantee we won't receive exact same coins from centralized exchanges, and we could get in lot more trouble with recorder IP addresses, KYC verification, seized coins, and all kind of other crap.

[LoyceV]

this is the first time I heard about ''extremely tainted coins''.
There is not a single guarantee we won't receive exact same coins from centralized exchanges

"Taint" is kinda arbitrary, defined by companies that earn from selling the notion of taint. Which means they can simply define anything withdrawn from their customers as "clean". The coins stay the same, it's the finger-pointing that changes.

[OrangeFren]

Sorry but I can't agree with you on this at all. 
DEX exchanges are NOT a bad thing, and this is the first time I heard about ''extremely tainted coins''.
There is not a single guarantee we won't receive exact same coins from centralized exchanges, and we could get in lot more trouble with recorder IP addresses, KYC verification, seized coins, and all kind of other crap.

Sure, taint is a made-up concept, but to the extent that people believe it often the users we see who get shotgun-KYC'ed acquired their coins on a P2P exchange. Conversely users that have tainted coins tend to dispose of them there too. Centralized services can, in theory, send you tainted coins, but in practice it basically never happens. The only exception which comes to mind, that affected our users, was users who used eXch shortly before they shut down.

"Taint" is kinda arbitrary, defined by companies that earn from selling the notion of taint. Which means they can simply define anything withdrawn from their customers as "clean". The coins stay the same, it's the finger-pointing that changes.

True, the list of actually sanctioned coins, for instance by US OFAC, is very short too.


OrangeFren.com gets you better rates than in-wallet swaps

Some of you may not be aware, but the links on OrangeFren.com will get you much better rates than using the swap function built into many wallets. In fact the rates using our links are identical to using a service directly.

Here's an estimate for a 0.1 BTC to XMR swap inside of a wallet:


And here's the estimate our users get (the tiny difference is from a lag in fetching the rate by our server):

[examplens]

Sure, taint is a made-up concept, but to the extent that people believe it often the users we see who get shotgun-KYC'ed acquired their coins on a P2P exchange. Conversely users that have tainted coins tend to dispose of them there too. Centralized services can, in theory, send you tainted coins, but in practice it basically never happens. The only exception which comes to mind, that affected our users, was users who used eXch shortly before they shut down.

The taint concept has not brought much good in crypto regulation. He just made it possible for anyone to play police. Before the Bybit hack and their bounty for all frozen coins, I don't remember Changenow always returning tainted & seized coins to the original owner.
The tainted concept has made it possible to mark 'clean' coins as tainted, which are regular users, deposit on eXch, just because it is eXch. An excellent concept to make business difficult for a direct competitor.