Trustdice.win , UPD: TRUSTDICE SCAM, 2138$ USDT confiscated. (SOLVED)

[Laki21000]

What happened::delay payment and block my account

Scammers Profile Link: trustdice.win

Reference Link: my login on trustdice: Laki21000
Amount Scammed: 2138$ USDT, my current balance is 800 dollars on balance, 1338 on withdrawal pending. https://imgur.com/a/OtxLB4L
Payment Method: TRC-20 USDT
Proof of Payment: https://imgur.com/a/fQf5DBl
PM/Chat Logs: https://imgur.com/a/fQf5DBl   (Here are all the screenshots that are needed, I will add screenshots in separate posts if necessary)  
Additional Notes:Hello, everyone, I registered on trustdice in early November, made bets, played sports, for my entertainment, I love American sports, I bet on American football, NBA, it happened on European basketball, there were no problems, but every time everything became delay payments more and more often, first for a day, then for two days of payment. As a result, this Saturday I made a withdrawal for 1338 dollars, and I had 500 usdt left so that I could play more, make bets, but I still waited for the withdrawal, I could not restrain myself and decided to bet on American football, and I also won and I became 800 dollars on the balance sheet, and 1338 pending for withdrawal, as a result, they have now requested KYC, I successfully sent the required documents, but they ignore me for the 2nd day, they don’t answer, they say wait, they didn’t even write to me that my documents have come for consideration, I’m very worried, I am an ordinary player who found this site on bitcointalk, I was in the gambling section and was looking for a suitable site for betting, I see there are a lot of good reviews, there are also a lot of good reviews on trustpilot. I actively bet for a whole month, won, lost, but each time they began to withdraw more and more slowly, I'm not an abuser, I didn't use bonuses, because I don't know how to wager them, I received their internal currency and staked it, made bets and that's it, in the end, when my amount reached $ 2,000, they decided to freeze me. If everything is decided and my money is withdrawn, I will be happy, because I won it honestly.
P.S I'm sorry if I wrote something bad, I'm writing a message through a translator, I don't know English.

_____________________

After 2 weeks of discussions TrustDice made a withdraw of my funds with a bonus of 100$ USDT, however I ask everyone to come here and read the entire message thread so that you understand everything

[1714699922]

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[1714699922]

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[Coinbox1]

Hello there,

TrustDice team here.
We are experiencing a high volume of withdrawals at the moment due to the world cup. While most withdrawals get approved instantly, some withdrawals require manual inspection. Please be assured that your withdrawal will be accepted if everything looks good.

Best,
TrustDice Team
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Update Dec 19, 2022:


Upon reviewing OP's submitted info, we discussed with our sports provider as soon as possible to re-evaluate the decision. As a result of such discussion, we have decided to unblock OP's account, return the confiscated funds, and have informed the OP at the first opportunity. We also sent $100 withdraw-able bonus to OP's account to compensate for the inconvenience caused by all the these.

It is our understanding that OP has initiated a withdrawal, which has been approved. As the below TX id suggests, the transaction has now been completed:
https://tronscan.org/#/transaction/603bc06c1665a40215a4e01e163f1bc9c32ab83e5f800be2592bb4be186fcda5
This means OP has received his full balance, plus $100 bonus.

We deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused and will work hard to improve our sports betting anti-abuse systems.


Sincerely,
TrustDice Team

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Bitcointalk community,

Throughout this entire thread, we discussed with Mr. Pmalek about this case for days. However, as Mr. Pmalek started to distort our words and put words in our mouths, the conversation gets increasingly non-constructive and unproductive. Having this type of conversation is inconsistent with how we do business, therefore we eventually decide to stop participating in this thread.

Here is an example of how Mr. Pmalek distorts our words.
We said:

I no longer watch NBA these days, but when I did, delays of over 10 minutes were rare.

Then Mr. Pmalek started to distort the meaning of that sentence:

You just said in your previous sentence that from your experience NBA matches begin later than expected, even if only 10 minutes.

No, we didn’t say "NBA matches begin later than expected". We said “delays of over 10 minutes were rare." In English, when we say something is "rare", it means the thing is very unusual. It doesn't mean the thing's opposite definitely always happens. So when we say "delays of over 10 minutes were rare", it means "delays of over 10 minutes" are very unusual. It doesn't mean "delays of below 10 minutes" definitely always happens. For everyone's reference, here comes a ink to Cambridge Dictionary.


Sadly, instead of examining his own behaviors, Mr. Pmalek decided to strike first and accuse us first.

This is his accusation:

Don't try to twist my words please.

But let's take a look at what he said:

I am familiar with the MLS, NBA, and NHL (I can't say anything for other leagues/sports), and they always begin with a delay. That can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins.

So they clearly include NBA. And that means the delay of they. So Mr. Pmalek did mean "NBA always begin with a delay".

And we understood he meant it and we asked a follow-up question. But it is where he claims we twisted his words:

Therefore, could you kindly provide a reliable source of statistics supporting the claim that NBA games "always begin with a delay" and "can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins"?

As explained above, his sentences did mean "NBA always begin with a delay", then, strangely enough, he accuses us of saying so. So forgive us that we have to refute such false accusation.


In addition, we notice that Mr. holydarkness is also behaving in a similar manner.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Make no mistake, someone else's behavior won't affect OP's case. We still look forward to resolving this issue with the OP, who’s been labelled as abuser by our sports provider initially. If anyone can find following information, please feel free to send to info@trustdice.win so we can forward it to our sports provider for them to reconsider:
- The actual time the game was delayed.
- The exact score and countdown at 3:54 a.m. (UTC) on December 1, when the OP placed his bet.
- The exact time the timer started running and the actual length of the game.


Sincerely,
TrustDice Team

[fortunecrypto]

Hello there,

TrustDice team here.
We are experiencing a high volume of withdrawals at the moment due to the world cup. While most withdrawals get approved instantly, some withdrawals require manual inspection. Please be assured that your withdrawal will be accepted if everything looks good.

Best,
TrustDice Team

That's fast it only takes 12 hours to address the issue and confirm OP's account, they have a good reason because of the World Cup I hope everything looks good for OP knowing that he found Trustdice here in Bitcointalk because of the good reviews, Trustdice will not the community down if OP deserves his winnings.
OP update us on the development of the case once you receive your payout or if there are issues.

[Poika5]

Hi OP,

I don't want to bring bad news, but my withdrawal was delayed for 5 days and then suddenly got banned(Money confiscated).


Heres my thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5425968.0


Hopefully you will get your money back.

[Awaklara]

I don't want to bring bad news, but my withdrawal was delayed for 5 days and then suddenly got banned(Money confiscated).

chances are you have the same problem as the OP. reps have already come to the thread and provided feedback. I guess you also need to bring a rep to your thread. maybe the problem is the same.

By the way, you have also had problems with other casinos before. is it done?

[Poika5]

I don't want to bring bad news, but my withdrawal was delayed for 5 days and then suddenly got banned(Money confiscated).

chances are you have the same problem as the OP. reps have already come to the thread and provided feedback. I guess you also need to bring a rep to your thread. maybe the problem is the same.

Unfortunately he ignored me.

Last Active:    Today at 12:25:55 PM

By the way, you have also had problems with other casinos before. is it done?

What do you mean by is it done? Yes, Fairspin paid me after +20 days.
I guess props to Fairspin, atleast they didnt ban me.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Hello there,

TrustDice team here.
We are experiencing a high volume of withdrawals at the moment due to the world cup. While most withdrawals get approved instantly, some withdrawals require manual inspection. Please be assured that your withdrawal will be accepted if everything looks good.

Best,
TrustDice Team

In the world cup do you think people are making money? There were so many upsets that it feels like a good world cup for the bookmakers only. Too many results in the favour of underdogs should make you a lot of money. 😉

Sorry about off-topic. Sometimes people are too impatience and you have to deal with them. Hopefully you will resolve it soon.

I don't want to bring bad news, but my withdrawal was delayed for 5 days and then suddenly got banned(Money confiscated).


Heres my thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5425968.0

Also leave a response for the user too.

[Laki21000]

Hello there,

TrustDice team here.
We are experiencing a high volume of withdrawals at the moment due to the world cup. While most withdrawals get approved instantly, some withdrawals require manual inspection. Please be assured that your withdrawal will be accepted if everything looks good.

Best,
TrustDice Team

my account is block https://imgur.com/a/gNXhA1o As a result, my account was blocked, I'm in shock ... completely moreover. "we suspect that you have registered, manage or direct your betting activity on multiple user accounts in an attempt to hide your betting activity, bypass set our trading limits or violate any promotion Terms and Conditions;" in what sense?? what does it mean? I played on my account, this is my personal account, this is my first account. I never registered with you, I didn’t violate promotions because WTF didn’t use them?. 13.1. " We have determined that you are using TrustDice.win in a manner that gives you an unfair advantage, such as betting on the understanding or professional knowledge of sports gained through personal involvement or participation in a specific field of sports, or using a late betting strategy. ; " - What is this nonsense? What knowledge do I have for professional sports? explain? to sit online to watch the broadcast and place a bet? this is professional knowledge, I am an ordinary gambler who bets his money in order to have fun, what kind of idiotic accusations against me?
that is, I bet with you all month, you withdraw money to me, as soon as I had a large amount on my balance sheet, you decided to scam me? smart,
I also ask you not to look that my account was registered recently, I have been following bitcointalk for a very long time, I registered an account in early November, just when I was looking for a betting site. Now I see that trustdice just blatantly cheated me, I gave them all my data, I played with them for a whole MONTH, withdrew money, and as soon as they had the opportunity to steal my huge amount, they did it. In the past they have withdrawn 1000~ usdt, now they seem to be having a hard time when they need to cheat players.

[Poika5]

Welcome to the club!

@Coinbox1, do you think these two cases are somehow connected?
Did this poor Russian lose his money because of me? My popcorn is ready and Im waiting for the answers @Coinbox1.

Oh, by the way Im not Russian, dont speak Russian, never been to Russia. Just to clarify, i live in the EU.

[Coinbox1]

Hello everyone,

We discussed with our Risk Management team who have banned the OP's account due to his violation of T&C 18.1:
Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we may suspend and/or terminate your account, cancel any outstanding bets and/or confiscate any or all funds in your account at our absolute discretion if:
* We determine that you are using TrustDice.win in a manner that gives you an unfair advantage, for example making bets on insight or professional knowledge about a sport gained via personal involvement or participation in the particular field of sport or using the late bets strategy;


Simply put, we notice that the OP has been practicing "late bets strategy", which is commonly referred as "late betting abuse" in the betting industry, and is prohibited by our T&C. As wikipedia explained, it is making a bet after the time when information have become available, including the outcome of the event, that was not available to those making earlier bets. It is considered cheating.

This abuse practice particularly takes advantage of latency of internet and servers.

Due to privacy concerns, we find ourselves reluctant to publicly disclose the OP's betting time stamps. However, we do have time stamps that clearly show OP only bets on games after or right before the game ends, which constitutes the late betting abuse that is forbidden by our T&C.

We strongly advise against this, but if the OP approves to share his betting information publicly, I can discuss it with our CEO to see if we can make an exception and disclose some of his betting data, which overwhelmingly indicate late betting abuse.

Thank you.
TrustDice

[Poika5]

Are you serious? You can VOID latebets if you want, thats 100% fine. But you cant randomly steal all of his money weeks later?



+ Im still waiting for my verdict(I had like 2 live bets only, so you have to find something else).
+ Flag incoming

We strongly advise against this, but if the OP approves to share his betting information publicly, I can discuss it with our CEO to see if we can make an exception and disclose some of his betting data, which overwhelmingly indicate late betting abuse.

He posted his whole bet history, so we can compare it to the Bet365/Pinnacle line.

[Laki21000]

Hello everyone,

We discussed with our Risk Management team who have banned the OP's account due to his violation of T&C 18.1:
Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we may suspend and/or terminate your account, cancel any outstanding bets and/or confiscate any or all funds in your account at our absolute discretion if:
* We determine that you are using TrustDice.win in a manner that gives you an unfair advantage, for example making bets on insight or professional knowledge about a sport gained via personal involvement or participation in the particular field of sport or using the late bets strategy;


Simply put, we notice that the OP has been practicing "late bets strategy", which is commonly referred as "late betting abuse" in the betting industry, and is prohibited by our T&C. As wikipedia explained, it is making a bet after the time when information have become available, including the outcome of the event, that was not available to those making earlier bets. It is considered cheating.

This abuse practice particularly takes advantage of latency of internet and servers.

Due to privacy concerns, we find ourselves reluctant to publicly disclose the OP's betting time stamps. However, we do have time stamps that clearly show OP consistently bets on games after or right before the game ends, which constitutes the late betting abuse that is forbidden by our T&C.

We strongly advise against this, but if the OP approves to share his betting information publicly, I can discuss it with our CEO to see if we can make an exception and disclose some of his betting data, which overwhelmingly indicate late betting abuse.

Thank you.
TrustDice

What kind of nonsense? what are the late bets? I understand you mean that I put the original result on the result? i.e. known in advance? do you mean it? And I, too, am shocked by these statements. Yes, I'm ready for you to provide it, however, I no longer trust you because you can now provide any screenshots, edited, created specifically to mislead. If you are talking about the NCAA American Football Carolina Troy match, the last match, then how can I know the result in advance?)) Yes, I placed this bet at the end of the match, I placed it live, I watched this match. What kind of delays do I use explain? I have no idea what it is, I will repeat again for all users. I am an ordinary player, a gambler. I sit and play for my pleasure. I am ready to listen to all claims, I give the green light to the provision of my personal data if it helps to return my money won in an honest way. I played at many bookmakers, but to lie so blatantly and make me guilty of what I did not do is nonsense. I bet on popular matches, I took screenshots of bets and posted them to the public, I bet exclusively on the NBA, European leagues, and American football, do you think it is possible there, as the bookmaker’s representative says, “late bets”, on championships that are top 1 among all, where I THINK it is unrealistic to do. I still think that the screenshots will be ridiculous, or fake, but I agree to provide them.
Please note. I just calculated my balance and I'm up about ~$1,300. We can assume that I spent the whole month that I bet with them, I was about in the red, or stayed at the level of a slight minus, I want to remind the community that the whole month that I bet, they calmly all withdrawn money to me, without problems. As soon as I got a plus, which of course is unprofitable for trustdice, they love it when players only lose, but do not want to honestly pay out the winnings, they begin to come up with incomprehensible rules that I violated. Judging by because he writes search5, he compared them with other casinos, so I went to them, and they have the same line, so they take matches, odds from the supplier, well, why didn’t the odds supplier limit me limits? why didn't the supplier return the bids at the moment when I allegedly violated the rules? right because I did not violate anything and these are inventions that do not just want to withdraw money to me. I'm not hiding anything, but I had one return bet. Yes I registered an account at the beginning of November and it was the second or third bet after registering, I remember that I bet on Sacramento Golden State, Sacramento won that they would win in the first half, then the bet was returned, I don’t know if it was a mistake , however, they gave me a refund and I did not write anything. There has never been a return since.

PS

My subjective opinion is that the bookmaker simply decided to take my money under the pretext of violating the rules, as soon as I got a plus they decided to confiscate the money. If I was in the red, I would be sure that I would continue to sit and play with them further, I am 100% sure

it is making a bet after the time when information have become available, including the outcome of the event, that was not available to those making earlier bets. It is considered cheating.

Please tell us how you can know the result in advance in American football? in nba basketball? Am I at a match? I live in America? no. I live in Russia, I place bets from a computer while watching the broadcast, it’s physically impossible, even if I assume that I made late bets, then I need to be at the stadium or at the match itself, but then I’m sitting at home in Russia, I even have US visas no, and how can you make late bets, in the nba? top 1 basketball championship, where points I think are counted instantly after the throw
Moreover, I watch broadcasts on Betfury, but I sit and watch broadcasts there, because they have broadcasts, unlike your site, it happens on roletto, and then I find out about the NBA timeout only after 1-2 minutes, because everything practically delayed broadcasts, but what am I talking about, you made charges that do not belong to me. nonsense!

[Poika5]

Hello everyone,

We discussed with our Risk Management team who have banned the OP's account due to his violation of T&C 18.1:
Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we may suspend and/or terminate your account, cancel any outstanding bets and/or confiscate any or all funds in your account at our absolute discretion if:
* We determine that you are using TrustDice.win in a manner that gives you an unfair advantage, for example making bets on insight or professional knowledge about a sport gained via personal involvement or participation in the particular field of sport or using the late bets strategy;


Simply put, we notice that the OP has been practicing "late bets strategy", which is commonly referred as "late betting abuse" in the betting industry, and is prohibited by our T&C. As wikipedia explained, it is making a bet after the time when information have become available, including the outcome of the event, that was not available to those making earlier bets. It is considered cheating.

This abuse practice particularly takes advantage of latency of internet and servers.

Due to privacy concerns, we find ourselves reluctant to publicly disclose the OP's betting time stamps. However, we do have time stamps that clearly show OP consistently bets on games after or right before the game ends, which constitutes the late betting abuse that is forbidden by our T&C.

We strongly advise against this, but if the OP approves to share his betting information publicly, I can discuss it with our CEO to see if we can make an exception and disclose some of his betting data, which overwhelmingly indicate late betting abuse.

Thank you.
TrustDice

Here comes the flag, because that is the biggest load of horseshit I have ever read.

Customer bets for 4 weeks, and when he decides to withdraw Trustdice decides to check all customer bets under a magnifying glass.
They find some "late bets" and use it to confiscate all of his money.

By the way their sportprovider is extremly sharp, i have NEVER seen them SLEEPING while looking at their live odds.


100% ridicoulus, 100% scam

@Laki21000 please support my flag: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2569866

[Coinbox1]

Hello everyone,


As OP has publicly admitted, he placed bets after the game ends when the outcome of the game becomes available.

Yes, I placed this bet at the end of the match

Such conduct is standard late betting abuse, which our T&C forbids, and he agreed to not engage in when he signed up.

He has publicly admitted that he engaged in activities that violate our T&C, thus I think there is no need for further explanations. With that being said, as the OP insists, I have forwarded OP's request for private info disclosure to our CEO and will update this thread if a permission is granted.


Thank you.
TrustDice Team

[Poika5]

Hello everyone,


As OP has publicly admitted, he placed bets after the game ends when the outcome of the game becomes available.

Yes, I placed this bet at the end of the match

Such conduct is standard late betting abuse, which our T&C forbids, and he agreed to not engage in when he signed up.

He has publicly admitted that he engaged in activities that violate our T&C, thus I think there is no need for further explanations. With that being said, as the OP insists, I have forwarded OP's request for private info disclosure to our CEO and will update this thread if a permission is granted.


Thank you.
TrustDice Team

Lord have mercy! Are you bullying a customer who clearly doesn't speak english?

If you are talking about the NCAA American Football Carolina Troy match, the last match, then how can I know the result in advance?)) Yes, I placed this bet at the end of the match, I placed it live, I watched this match. What kind of delays do I use explain?

[Laki21000]

Hello everyone,


As OP has publicly admitted, he placed bets after the game ends when the outcome of the game becomes available.

Yes, I placed this bet at the end of the match

Such conduct is standard late betting abuse, which our T&C forbids, and he agreed to not engage in when he signed up.

He has publicly admitted that he engaged in activities that violate our T&C, thus I think there is no need for further explanations. With that being said, as the OP insists, I have forwarded OP's request for private info disclosure to our CEO and will update this thread if a permission is granted.


Thank you.
TrustDice Team

Ahahahaha, are you serious? I use a translator, you are a Russian-speaking trustdice administrator, and you understand everything what dirty games you play. I meant that I bet on the ncaa carolina match three, when there were about 10 minutes left until the end of the match. If the translator does not translate well, I will describe everything in more detail so that you do not think something is wrong. You are a Russian-speaking administrator, and you know that I am Russian and use a translator, what a dirty game of you? https://imgur.com/a/PeDmXEc

If you turn on your head and think that I wrote it, it is clear that I did not put it when the match ended!, my words mean that the match was still going on and nearing the end, this means that there were about 10 minutes left until the end of the match.

Late bets - judging by Wikipedia, these are bets on which you already know the outcome of the event, I didn’t do this and I didn’t bet it. You are taking my words out of context. I deny it completely, I didn’t put it, I’m an ordinary player, and you just decided to blatantly lie and deceive, attributing that I violated your conditions.

[Poika5]

Hello everyone,


As OP has publicly admitted, he placed bets after the game ends when the outcome of the game becomes available.

Yes, I placed this bet at the end of the match

Such conduct is standard late betting abuse, which our T&C forbids, and he agreed to not engage in when he signed up.

He has publicly admitted that he engaged in activities that violate our T&C, thus I think there is no need for further explanations. With that being said, as the OP insists, I have forwarded OP's request for private info disclosure to our CEO and will update this thread if a permission is granted.


Thank you.
TrustDice Team

Just to make it crystal clear:
OPs betslip + Bet365 odds & time left(+6 minutes)

[Poika5]

Hello everyone,

We discussed with our Risk Management team who have banned the OP's account due to his violation of T&C 18.1:
Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we may suspend and/or terminate your account, cancel any outstanding bets and/or confiscate any or all funds in your account at our absolute discretion if:
* We determine that you are using TrustDice.win in a manner that gives you an unfair advantage, for example making bets on insight or professional knowledge about a sport gained via personal involvement or participation in the particular field of sport or using the late bets strategy;


Simply put, we notice that the OP has been practicing "late bets strategy", which is commonly referred as "late betting abuse" in the betting industry, and is prohibited by our T&C. As wikipedia explained, it is making a bet after the time when information have become available, including the outcome of the event, that was not available to those making earlier bets. It is considered cheating.

This abuse practice particularly takes advantage of latency of internet and servers.

Due to privacy concerns, we find ourselves reluctant to publicly disclose the OP's betting time stamps. However, we do have time stamps that clearly show OP only bets on games after or right before the game ends, which constitutes the late betting abuse that is forbidden by our T&C.

We strongly advise against this, but if the OP approves to share his betting information publicly, I can discuss it with our CEO to see if we can make an exception and disclose some of his betting data, which overwhelmingly indicate late betting abuse.

Thank you.
TrustDice

Surprise, surprise, @Coinbox1 lied again.
After analyzing OPs bets, the pattern is very clear. OP is betting on mispriced(+EV) lines during the timeouts/halftimes/delays.

Houston Rockets vs Phoenix Suns 2.1 +5.5
During the timeout( 4th 7:09 Full timeout (Timeout #4)
+EV vs Bet365 2.000 +4.5

Milwaukee Bucks vs Los Angeles Lakers Over 239.5
During the halftime
Some other bookies had 240.5, so probably -EV bet by OP.

Denver Nuggets total vs Houston Rockets 2.45 odds
During the timeout (4th 9:07 Full timeout (Timeout #4)

Cleveland Cavaliers vs Philadelphia Sixers Under 205.5 1.75
During the timeout (4th 8:45 Full timeout (Timeout #4)
+EV vs Bet365 Under 202.5 1.869

Boston Celtics -6.5 1.9 vs  Miami heat
During the timeout (2nd 8:37 Full timeout (Timeout #2)
+EV vs Bet365 -7.5 1.833

Houston Rockets +12.5 1.6 vs Denver Nuggets
During the delay of game, bet was placed 05:48, when the score didnt change.
3 - 02:50   89:96   -   +9.5   -   11/29 05:49
3 - 02:52   89:96   2.000   +9.5   1.769   11/29 05:46

6 bets, 0 late bets, all bets were placed after the game was paused.

[Coin_trader]

Simply put, we notice that the OP has been practicing "late bets strategy", which is commonly referred as "late betting abuse" in the betting industry, and is prohibited by our T&C. As wikipedia explained, it is making a bet after the time when information have become available, including the outcome of the event, that was not available to those making earlier bets. It is considered cheating.

First time to hear about this late bet strategy. How come is this possible if the games is broadcast live? Is there significant time delay for the official result to reflect on your sportsbook vs the live games? I’m watching live basketball games in my country and betting at the same time for that specific match but I didn’t notice any significant time delay on the live score on bookmaker that I’m playing. If this is really true then you should close the betting option when the time is near to end to avoid this strategy.

This is understanding if the match is fixed though but betting before the match end is questionable for me because I bet too on late game matches for a more accurate outcome on live games but I never encounter such rules like this. I might revisit again the ToS of all the sportsbook that I use to spot same rules like this.

[Laki21000]

Simply put, we notice that the OP has been practicing "late bets strategy", which is commonly referred as "late betting abuse" in the betting industry, and is prohibited by our T&C. As wikipedia explained, it is making a bet after the time when information have become available, including the outcome of the event, that was not available to those making earlier bets. It is considered cheating.

Surprise, surprise, @Coinbox1 lied again.
After analyzing OPs bets, the pattern is very clear. OP is betting on mispriced(+EV) lines during the timeouts/halftimes/delays.

Houston Rockets vs Phoenix Suns 2.1 +5.5
During the timeout( 4th 7:09 Full timeout (Timeout #4)
+EV vs Bet365 2.000 +4.5

Milwaukee Bucks vs Los Angeles Lakers Over 239.5
During the halftime
Some other bookies had 240.5, so probably -EV bet by OP.

Denver Nuggets total vs Houston Rockets 2.45 odds
During the timeout (4th 9:07 Full timeout (Timeout #4)

Cleveland Cavaliers vs Philadelphia Sixers Under 205.5 1.75
During the timeout (4th 8:45 Full timeout (Timeout #4)
+EV vs Bet365 Under 202.5 1.869

Boston Celtics -6.5 1.9 vs  Miami heat
During the timeout (2nd 8:37 Full timeout (Timeout #2)
+EV vs Bet365 -7.5 1.833

Houston Rockets +12.5 1.6 vs Denver Nuggets
During the delay of game, bet was placed 05:48, when the score didnt change.
3 - 02:50   89:96   -   +9.5   -   11/29 05:49
3 - 02:52   89:96   2.000   +9.5   1.769   11/29 05:46


6 bets, 0 late bets, all bets were placed after the game was paused.

Where did you find that? thank you very much friend!

Simply put, we notice that the OP has been practicing "late bets strategy", which is commonly referred as "late betting abuse" in the betting industry, and is prohibited by our T&C. As wikipedia explained, it is making a bet after the time when information have become available, including the outcome of the event, that was not available to those making earlier bets. It is considered cheating.

First time to hear about this late bet strategy. How come is this possible if the games is broadcast live? Is there significant time delay for the official result to reflect on your sportsbook vs the live games? I’m watching live basketball games in my country and betting at the same time for that specific match but I didn’t notice any significant time delay on the live score on bookmaker that I’m playing. If this is really true then you should close the betting option when the time is near to end to avoid this strategy.

This is understanding if the match is fixed though but betting before the match end is questionable for me because I bet too on late game matches for a more accurate outcome on live games but I never encounter such rules like this. I might revisit again the ToS of all the sportsbook that I use to spot same rules like this.

I am also very interested in how they then accept these overdue bets .... Why don't they make returns? if not late bid? Just laughing. I'm also very curious how they then accept these overdue bets.... Why don't they make refunds? if it's late bets? @coinbox1, why are you silent?

[Laki21000]

Why am I being ignored? representative, why don't you provide evidence of my violations? I honestly do not want to quarrel with anyone, and so on, I did not violate anything and was an honest player, but the absurdity that is happening, I still cannot believe that I am being accused of something.

[Poika5]

@Laki21000, you should start a complaint against the Trustdice casino:
https://www.askgamblers.com/submit-complaint

We strongly advise against this, but if the OP approves to share his betting information publicly, I can discuss it with our CEO to see if we can make an exception and disclose some of his betting data, which overwhelmingly indicate late betting abuse.

I think OP is waiting for you to share this data.

Where did you find that? thank you very much friend!

Compared your betslips vs Bet365 lines(Using Betsapi)
https://betsapi.com/rs/bet365/5486040/HOU-Rockets-vs-DEN-Nuggets etc

Why am I being ignored? representative, why don't you provide evidence of my violations?

Because he works in marketing, and he doesnt know anything about sportsbetting.

[Laki21000]

@Laki21000, you should start a complaint against the Trustdice casino:
https://www.askgamblers.com/submit-complaint

We strongly advise against this, but if the OP approves to share his betting information publicly, I can discuss it with our CEO to see if we can make an exception and disclose some of his betting data, which overwhelmingly indicate late betting abuse.

I think OP is waiting for you to share this data.

Where did you find that? thank you very much friend!

Compared your betslips vs Bet365 lines(Using Betsapi)
https://betsapi.com/rs/bet365/5486040/HOU-Rockets-vs-DEN-Nuggets etc

Why am I being ignored? representative, why don't you provide evidence of my violations?

Because he works in marketing, and he doesnt know anything about sportsbetting.

I tried to apply, they refused me, they write that violations of the terms and conditions must be addressed to the licensee

[Pmalek]

I received a PM from OP to take a look at this case, so here I am.

1338 on withdrawal pending. https://imgur.com/a/zlDxUSx

This screenshot doesn't show your pending withdrawal, btw. But I can see it in one of the other links that you posted.

Simply put, we notice that the OP has been practicing "late bets strategy",

That can't be the case judging by how high the odds are on the screenshots OP posted. If the player made a live bet on an odd of 2.20, that wager had to be placed long before the event in action was about to end. Otherwise, the odds would have been much lower.

Let's say I make a bet that a football match will have over 2.5 goals at the odds of 2.20. As the match progresses, the live odds for this market will either increase or decrease depending on the result. If there has already been two goals in the match, and depending on how much time is left, bookmakers will either permanently close the +/- 2.5 goal markets or they will introduce new ones like the +/- 3.5 or +/- 4.5 goals. If the time period for an event is close to ending and the outcome is highly unlikely, you wouldn't have those kind of odds. They would either be much lower or much higher. If you are in the 88th min at a score of 1:0 and you wanted to place a bet for +2.5 goals, those odds would be huge because it's unlikely that 2 more goals will be scored. Opposite of that, if you wanted to place a bet that there will be -2.5 goals, those odds would be quite small. In OPs case, he has quite big odds of 1.7, 1.9, 2, and even higher. There is no chance that a legit bookmaker would accept live bets on events that are about to end at those odds where the outcome favors the bettor unless there is something really fukced up with your site.   

Please tell us how you can know the result in advance in American football? in nba basketball?

It's not about knowing the result beforehand or being a psychic and knowing how it will end. One way of abusing late bets is too be at a venue and use a bookmaker that updates its markets with several seconds delay. If that delay is greater than 8-10 seconds and the bookmaker allows live betting for that event, you will have an edge and be able to bet on things that already happened. Do you understand? The other way is using a fast source (TV channel, satellite feed, radio, stream) and again place bets with a bookmaker that uses delayed odds changes and suspensions for markets. That's the theory.

As OP has publicly admitted, he placed bets after the game ends when the outcome of the game becomes available.

OP's knowledge of English is bad. As I said previously, that can't be. The odds wouldn't be like that for live bets. I can find any game that is live and demonstrate this for you. Anyone who has been involved in betting long enough will know this. I am going to tag Trofo here. @Trofo is someone I know from the Croatian local and he enjoys betting. He also works with Sportsbet and organizes several of their pools. Let's see what Trofo says about these accusations and whether what I am saying is right or wrong.

[Laki21000]

I received a PM from OP to take a look at this case, so here I am.

1338 on withdrawal pending. https://imgur.com/a/zlDxUSx

This screenshot doesn't show your pending withdrawal, btw. But I can see it in one of the other links that you posted.

I apologize for the typo, corrected

Please tell us how you can know the result in advance in American football? in nba basketball?

It's not about knowing the result beforehand or being a psychic and knowing how it will end. One way of abusing late bets is too be at a venue and use a bookmaker that updates its markets with several seconds delay. If that delay is greater than 8-10 seconds and the bookmaker allows live betting for that event, you will have an edge and be able to bet on things that already happened. Do you understand? The other way is using a fast source (TV channel, satellite feed, radio, stream) and again place bets with a bookmaker that uses delayed odds changes and suspensions for markets. That's the theory.

I roughly understood what you mean, sit in the stadium, or watch the broadcast without delay, I don’t know much about it, but I think it’s unrealistic, my proof that I’m not in America is that I was sitting on the site from a Russian IP address and I live in Russia, and I can also take a picture of an international passport where there is no American visa, so I can assume that it is very difficult or even impossible to place bets ahead of broadcast on matches of the NBA type, American football, or even impossible, since this is a top championship where the delay is no more than 2 -3 seconds, a bet on TrustDice is accepted for about 5-10 seconds, if I bet on some kind of volleyball 3 league of Madagascar, women, then I think this is possible as an example. I made bets solely for the purpose of entertainment, which I wrote above.

[Pmalek]

so I can assume that it is very difficult or even impossible to place bets ahead of broadcast on matches of the NBA type, American football, or even impossible, since this is a top championship where the delay is no more than 2 -3 seconds.

It's difficult and highly unlikely, but not impossible. Bookmakers know what they are doing and they have partnerships with companies that take care of these things for them, so pundits can't take advantage of late bets, for example. But any partnership costs money. If they are cheap, they might go for other options where the provided service is not satisfactory and provides live data with delays. I don't think that's what is happening here based on the odds I see.

And let me repeat again. It's not about placing bets ahead of broadcast because you can't see into the future to know what will happen. It's about placing bets with a bookmaker that is late to update odds or suspend betting altogether for certain markets on time.   

[Poika5]

It's difficult and highly unlikely, but not impossible.

Correct, these days this only happens in smaller & ineffective markets(But OP bets NBA/NFL).

If they are cheap, they might go for other options where the provided service is not satisfactory and provides live data with delays.

Trustdice uses the same provider as Duelbits/Bitsler, from my experience their provider is quite sharp.

[Laki21000]

so I can assume that it is very difficult or even impossible to place bets ahead of broadcast on matches of the NBA type, American football, or even impossible, since this is a top championship where the delay is no more than 2 -3 seconds.

It's difficult and highly unlikely, but not impossible. Bookmakers know what they are doing and they have partnerships with companies that take care of these things for them, so pundits can't take advantage of late bets, for example. But any partnership costs money. If they are cheap, they might go for other options where the provided service is not satisfactory and provides live data with delays. I don't think that's what is happening here based on the odds I see.

And let me repeat again. It's not about placing bets ahead of broadcast because you can't see into the future to know what will happen. It's about placing bets with a bookmaker that is late to update odds or suspend betting altogether for certain markets on time.   

I’m at a dead end and I don’t know what to do, all the same, I would suggest making a note @coinbox1 that these are scammers, I’m tired, they don’t give me answers, they ignore both on the forum and directly through the mail, they don’t provide evidence of violations, and they judge without them OK, in what country in the world is a criminal charged and imprisoned without evidence of violations of the law? this is just an example. But still, the matter does not move on, the site administration does not give any explanations, on my part now the same position, I am not guilty of anything, the explanations on the rates have already been sent by @poika1

Houston Rockets vs Phoenix Suns 2.1 +5.5
During the timeout( 4th 7:09 Full timeout (Timeout #4)
+EV vs Bet365 2.000 +4.5

Milwaukee Bucks vs Los Angeles Lakers Over 239.5
During the halftime
Some other bookies had 240.5, so probably -EV bet by OP.

Denver Nuggets total vs Houston Rockets 2.45 odds
During the timeout (4th 9:07 Full timeout (Timeout #4)

Cleveland Cavaliers vs Philadelphia Sixers Under 205.5 1.75
During the timeout (4th 8:45 Full timeout (Timeout #4)
+EV vs Bet365 Under 202.5 1.869

Boston Celtics -6.5 1.9 vs  Miami heat
During the timeout (2nd 8:37 Full timeout (Timeout #2)
+EV vs Bet365 -7.5 1.833

Houston Rockets +12.5 1.6 vs Denver Nuggets
During the delay of game, bet was placed 05:48, when the score didnt change.
3 - 02:50   89:96   -   +9.5   -   11/29 05:49
3 - 02:52   89:96   2.000   +9.5   1.769   11/29 05:46

6 bets, 0 late bets, all bets were placed after the game was paused.

, his message is the difference with the violation that they assigned to me, apparently the trustdisse admins decided to make themselves a present and buy a new villa in GOA for the new year

[LEVSKI7]

contact a lawyer in curacao.if there is someone else even better=good

[Pmalek]

The explanations they have given regarding the late bets that were allegedly wagered and accepted by their systems at the end of the match aren't satisfactory in my opinion. I have explained why in my previous posts here. The last thing their casino representative Coinbox1 said was that they would speak with the CEO to check whether they can release some sensitive information about the case or not. Proof has to be posted from their side. I am going to PM Coinbox1 and ask him to reply in this thread again and answer the questions I had.

[Coinbox1]

Hello everyone,

Just a quick update that the permission has been granted by our CEO to share some detailed info here. I will draft a detailed explanation and update this post.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, Pmalek's interpretation of the OP's behaviors is incorrect. (Yet still we appreciate your involvement). OP frequently placed bets at the end of the game following a specific pattern. Below comes an example.

The Denver Nuggets and Houston Rockets game began on November 30 at 9:00 PM EST, which is 2:00 AM on December 1 in UTC time.

On December 1, at 3:54 AM, 1 hour and 54 minutes into the game, OP placed a bet on it. Strangely, though, the odds he managed to catch was comparable to those at the beginning of the game. So extremely favorable and abnormal odds.




In 2022, a NBA game will typically last 2 hours and 13 minutes. Therefore, when the OP placed the bet, it was very much the end of the game, when the overall outcomes became easily predictable, or even already available if we are talking about a shorter than average game.

If the player made a live bet on an odd of 2.20, that wager had to be placed long before the event in action was about to end. Otherwise, the odds would have been much lower.

We agree with you Pmalek that this should not happen at all. But somehow OP managed to make it happen, and made it happen repetitively. We do not know why such bets were accepted by our sports provider either. It could be a bug found then exploited by the OP, and/or an error on their part, or something beyond at least my comprehension. We are still investigating how this happened with our sports provider.

Nevertheless, OP's betting behavior clearly constitutes "late betting abuse" which is prohibited by our T&C. He captured some early- or pre-game odds that should have ceased to exist hours ago.

In addition, OP's betting behaviors also violate our Sports Betting Rules:
* In the case of any obviously incorrectly displayed or calculated prices, we reserve the right to void betting. This includes a deviation of more than 100% in the pay-out compared to the market average.
* In the case of an incorrect settlement of markets, we reserve the right to correct them at any time.

As a result, the overwhelming evidence suggests that OP is an abuser rather than a regular sports bettor. No legit sports bettor can pull this off.

The bottom line is that OP somehow found a way to capture extremely favorable odds that are not supposed to be available at the time he bet it. And he managed to do it repetitively. Such odds do not exist for other players. This is by no means a regular sports bettor.

Hope this helps.

TrustDice Team

[Poika5]

The Denver Nuggets and Houston Rockets game began on November 30 at 9:00 PM EST, which is 2:00 AM on December 1 in UTC time.

On December 1, at 3:54 AM, 1 hour and 54 minutes into the game, OP placed a bet on it. Strangely, though, the odds he managed to catch was comparable to those at the beginning of the game. So extremely favorable and abnormal odds.

The score was 79:106(w 9 Minutes left)

https://betsapi.com/rs/bet365/5486040/HOU-Rockets-vs-DEN-Nuggets


(Im 2 hours in front of UTC)

Nevertheless, OP's betting behavior clearly constitutes "late betting abuse" which is prohibited by our T&C.

So everybody who bets during the 4th quarter gets banned?

We agree with you Pmalek that this should not happen at all. But somehow OP managed to make it happen, and made it happen repetitively. We do not know why such bets were accepted by our sports provider either. It could be a bug found then exploited by the OP, and/or an error on their part, or something beyond at least my comprehension. We are still investigating how this happened with our sports provider.

'Under 124.5 2.45 Denver Total' looks standard, because Denver had 106 points w 9 minutes left.
You are wasting your Providers time.

Therefore, when the OP placed the bet, it was very much the end of the game, when the overall outcomes became easily predictable, or even already available if we are talking about a shorter than average game.

Im speechless by your "evidence", it feels like trying to explain sportsbetting to my grandma.
Trustdice should close their sportsbook ASAP, and hire some people who have experience in this field.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

Anyone who is familiar with US sports will know that their matches NEVER begin on time. So, any conclusions you make regarding how long a match lasts based on the starting time is wrong. I am familiar with the MLS, NBA, and NHL (I can't say anything for other leagues/sports), and they always begin with a delay. That can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins.

<Snip>

Those wagers that Coinbox1 mentioned are for total points count for a team. BetsAPI doesn't have odds for those markets. But based on the timestamps, I can confirm that the wager was made at the beginning of the 4th quarter with about 8-9 minutes until the end of the match. There is nothing wrong with betting at that time. However, we can't compare the offered odds on Trustdice with other bookies because the stats are missing on BetsAPI. Do you have any other source similar to BetsAPI that shows data for additional markets.

@Coinbox1
Can you show a different example for something you consider a late bet where we can confirm the data? But not a bet on the totals for a team. 

[Poika5]

Those wagers that Coinbox1 mentioned are for total points count for a team. BetsAPI doesn't have odds for those markets. But based on the timestamps, I can confirm that the wager was made at the beginning of the 4th quarter with about 8-9 minutes until the end of the match. There is nothing wrong with betting at that time. However, we can't compare the offered odds on Trustdice with other bookies because the stats are missing on BetsAPI. Do you have any other source similar to BetsAPI that shows data for additional markets.

I know but Denver Under 124.5 2.45, with 9 minutes to play is reasonable. Def not a "bug" from their provider.

The Denver Nuggets are averaging 26 points in the fourth quarter:
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/4th-quarter-points-per-game
26/4 = 6.5
26-6.5 = 19.5

With 9 minutes to play, on average Denver scores 19.5 points.
106 + 19.5 = 125.5




But why do they call it late betting when OP placed both bets during the timeout?

[Pmalek]

But why do they call it late betting when OP placed both bets during the timeout?

It's not late betting, they are wrong. The wager was placed at the beginning of the 4th quarter. Most sportsbooks accept live bets up until the last minute of play. The available markets depend on the score. But you can't allow people to place bets on your site, accept those bets, and then say they are invalid because they were late bets when in fact they weren't.

We can't check if the odds on Trustdice were off if we can't compare with the data that was available on other sportsbooks at the same time. That's why a different example is needed.

@Coinbox1
Show an example of a late bet that can be independently verified please.

[Laki21000]

Nevertheless, OP's betting behavior clearly constitutes "late betting abuse" which is prohibited by our T&C. He captured some early- or pre-game odds that should have ceased to exist hours ago.

In addition, OP's betting behaviors also violate our Sports Betting Rules:
* In the case of any obviously incorrectly displayed or calculated prices, we reserve the right to void betting. This includes a deviation of more than 100% in the pay-out compared to the market average.
* In the case of an incorrect settlement of markets, we reserve the right to correct them at any time.

As a result, the overwhelming evidence suggests that OP is an abuser rather than a regular sports bettor. No legit sports bettor can pull this off.

The bottom line is that OP somehow found a way to capture extremely favorable odds that are not supposed to be available at the time he bet it. And he managed to do it repetitively. Such odds do not exist for other players. This is by no means a regular sports bettor.

Hope this helps.

TrustDice Team

I read your accusation in my favor and I’m just shocked by them, your accusations simply do not coincide with reality, if they were true your provider would have canceled my bets long ago, but now you already attribute to me that you can return the bet with the wrong odds or an error in the market, above, Mr. @poika1 gave you evidence that there is nothing wrong with my bet, it was not made at the end of the match, and without mistake, you are also trying to attribute new accusations to me, which is not entirely correct on your part, because now you are trying to catch on to any snag so as not to honestly pay me my winnings, honestly this is ridiculous, I'm just now watching the scene in the theater as the prosecutor is trying to accuse the victim of what he did not do, your messages simply do not match what is happening, please pay me my fair winnings and conduct honest business on your part, I am open to communication, I am ready to provide you with any information and prove to you my honesty, but to unfortunately, I see that you are trying your best to totally ignore me, which is not entirely correct of you, the trump cards are of course on your side, because in your possession is my winnings, which in my opinion you appropriated illegally, it’s very strange, @poika, I didn’t even know such services are what I cited as an example and figured out the bets, thank you very much friend, you obviously know more than the trustdice security service

I also want to say @pmalek that I found this crypto casino here on bitcointalk, I registered here on November 3 and started looking for a good crypto casino, I saw that the casino is responsive and openly responds to players, makes contact (so I thought), I registered 6 -November 8 there and began to place bets

[Xxmodded]

I don't know why many casino gambling site when their user won huge amount and try for withdrawing always make it difficult, acquiring KYC should apply at the beginning when user deposit fund and not try it after they won and withdraw huge amount. I have checked with your withdrawal history and have several time withdrawing success but what happen with last withdrawing have been reviewed and need to submit KYC?

Keep up with your account problem and I don't agree with World Cup have huge volume of withdrawing become reason why your withdrawing not process instant.

[Coinbox1]

Hello Pmalek,

Anyone who is familiar with US sports will know that their matches NEVER begin on time. So, any conclusions you make regarding how long a match lasts based on the starting time is wrong. I am familiar with the MLS, NBA, and NHL (I can't say anything for other leagues/sports), and they always begin with a delay. That can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins.

As a reputable casino & bookie, we try our best communicate with the Bitcointalk community, but when you say NBA games "always begin with a delay", it doesn't seem consistent with what I (the marketing guy behind this post) know.

I no longer watch NBA these days, but when I did, delays of over 10 minutes were rare. My knowledge might not be the most up-to-date and perhaps NBAs do always start with a delay these days. Therefore, could you kindly provide a reliable source of statistics supporting the claim that NBA games "always begin with a delay" and "can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins"?

Thank you.
TrustDice Team.

[Poika5]

Hello Pmalek,

Anyone who is familiar with US sports will know that their matches NEVER begin on time. So, any conclusions you make regarding how long a match lasts based on the starting time is wrong. I am familiar with the MLS, NBA, and NHL (I can't say anything for other leagues/sports), and they always begin with a delay. That can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins.

As a reputable casino & bookie, we try our best communicate with the Bitcointalk community, but when you say NBA games "always begin with a delay", it doesn't seem consistent with what I (the marketing guy behind this post) know. I no longer watch NBA these days, but when I did, delays of over 10 minutes were rare. My knowledge might not be the most up-to-date and perhaps NBAs do always start with a delay these days. Therefore, could you kindly provide a reliable source of statistics supporting the claim that NBA games "always begin with a delay" and "can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins"?

Thank you.
TrustDice Team.

Why do you think this matters at all? We already know when OP placed his bets.
What are you even trying do say at this point? That every customer who bets during the 4th quarter gets banned?
Your Provider offers late game betting because it makes money for their clients(Trustdice, Bitsler, Duelbits etc).

On December 1, at 3:54 AM, 1 hour and 54 minutes into the game, OP placed a bet on it. Strangely, though, the odds he managed to catch was comparable to those at the beginning of the game. So extremely favorable and abnormal odds.

The Denver Nuggets are averaging 115 points per game, how is under 124.5 comparable to 115? Do you even understand that lines move during the game? If Denver scores 44 points in the first quarter it will move Denver 'team total' from 115.5 to 127.5 etc.

[holydarkness]

Hello everyone,

The Denver Nuggets and Houston Rockets game began on November 30 at 9:00 PM EST, which is 2:00 AM on December 1 in UTC time.

On December 1, at 3:54 AM, 1 hour and 54 minutes into the game, OP placed a bet on it. [...]

Hi, we met here. So I followed Pmalek's advise on the other thread about four eyes... Let's hope my brain can catch up with these piling and crossing-each-other cases. I'd like to begin with me coming clean that I have little to no knowledge in basketball, let alone NBA betting, so this is quite an uncharted territory for me.

With that in the air, let's make sure we are all in the same page. You accused OP of late bet cheating, that much I know for sure, but am I right to assume that the following scenario is what you tried to convey:

That during 1 Dec, OP place a bet between Nuggets and Rockets game, which start at 02.00 their local time, add the assumption that NBA never plays on time, and although you'd like to say that based on what you know a delay is rare, it's still there, they still have to introduce team, sing anthem, etc. --yes, I quora-ed this one-- so let's combine what a stranger on Quora said with Pmalek's suggestion about the delay, let's agree on the shortest span possible to warm up, sing and to introduce people, etc., a 10 minutes, which place us in a situation where the actual game play at 02.10.

Now, as I've warned you all, this is an uncharted territory for me. So a funny but long story that could be very short if I want to --but I don't--, I've spent three four five hours digging the internet for things, realized I provided wrong data during my final proof read, re-searching the net, and finally got the right video... only to realize that the thing I'd like to prove is already served here. Anyway, as I don't want these three five hours thrown into trash, I think it still can contribute as a supporting evidence for the timestamp.

Now, I don't know if there's an easier way to actually know how long does the game lasted --oh dear, how naive I was two hours ago, certainly there is, as evidenced far below. I took what I can to get this info, which ultimately lead me to this video¹ where someone gave kinda live comments on the said game --why???--

To save you all from having to watch the entire video --if you don't want to-- allow me to put some important points based on the video timeline, which a rough estimation in a sense that it is not down to a precise second, give or take five to ten seconds because the time displayed by the "scoreboard" is not a live countdown, they updated the MM:SS based on the event happened on the field. Let's go ahead.

The video is 03:06:25 long, with the game itself started --roughly-- at 00:00:38 with 1 min and 26 seconds already on its way and ended at 01:59:00. At 00:23:07 the first quarter ended, at 00:25:49 the second quarter started; the thing I wanted to point out here, the video did happen in real time because according to this page, rest time between Q1 and Q2 is 1 minutes and 30 seconds --or two minutes, not sure which one is which. With that in our hand, lets skip waaaaayyyyyy forward to the end of the video, 01:59:00 where the video owner ended his live commentation for the game --I didn't watch what heppened for the next 1h6m-- with 1 minutes and 24 seconds left on the game.

Based on the video, because it already begun one and a half minutes before the video started and it ended one and a half minutes after the video creator closed his scoreboard, and because if anyone watched the video they would learn that 30 secs left on their timer could stretch to a very very long minutes, it won't be wrong to say that the entire game lasted more than 2 hours, let's say 2 hours and 3 minutes just for convenience.

Taking these numbers into our clock, as the final result, the game would start at 02.10 and ended at 04.13. As you said that OP placed their bet on 03.54, that'll be around 19 minutes before the game ended. And if we take this number back to our video, 19 minutes before 01:59:00 would be 01.40.00ish on the video, which....



If the image is not clear enough, it shows 09:07 --this is where, when I typed this number, I realized that the same information acquired at an easier way was already provided by Poika5-- of quarter 4, definitely a very very long time before the end of the game. May I remind us all again, how 30s can stretch very long, as proven how 9 mins on the scoreboard translates to roughly 19 minutes before the game actually ended. So, the accusation of late betting where OP placed their bet at the end of the game is not true, at least not for this bet. You can submit another to be reviewed, though.

Hello Pmalek,

As a reputable casino & bookie, we try our best communicate with the Bitcointalk community, but when you say NBA games "always begin with a delay", it doesn't seem consistent with what I (the marketing guy behind this post) know.

I no longer watch NBA these days, but when I did, delays of over 10 minutes were rare. My knowledge might not be the most up-to-date and perhaps NBAs do always start with a delay these days. Therefore, could you kindly provide a reliable source of statistics supporting the claim that NBA games "always begin with a delay" and "can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins"?

Thank you.
TrustDice Team.

Here, the "statistics", I added a few extra seconds to search for it --literally above my Quora result--, enjoy.

NBA games start approximately 10 minutes late because there are announcements of players, warmups and analyses from broadcasters. Then there is a national anthem as well as other pre-game activities that people enjoy watching.

This applies to 99% of the matches. There are practically no cases when games start on time and in this article, we will further explore more details that concern the late start of matches.

As for the reliability, I don't think we really need a reliable source to prove that NBA didn't start on time, almost every sport event never played on time. When did the last time you turned on your TV at 16.00 and boom, suddenly you see 22 people chasing one little round boy on a huge grass field? Or at 21.00 and you see a man punched someone else with a killer hook while hundreds of people cheering them up? With no commentation or any other opening at all? Yeah.


¹No, I am not related at any degree with the owner of that video, give him a like or subscribe or whatever if you want to.

[EthMcEthPants]

The argument from TD is absurd, NBA games are by far the most egregious in terms of starting way after start time, and OP should get his money back unless multiple examples can be presented of a) OP placing bets right at the end of the period, and b) right before a favourable event happened (e.g. Placing a bet on the over with 30 seconds left right before a 3 pointer is hit, prior to the odds getting updated). The fact that the only example presented did not show this is quite poor.

Providers also have access to feeds far faster than any stream and generally take awhile to confirm whether to accept live bets (especially towards the end of the games) should already mean that this practice is all but impossible remotely

[Laki21000]

According to the terms and conditions of the TrustDice website,
*19.4 In the event of any dispute, you agree that the server logs and records shall act as the final authority in determining the outcome of any claim. You agree that in the unlikely event of a disagreement between the result that appears on your screen and the game server, the result that was logged on the game server will prevail, and you acknowledge and agree that our records will be the final authority in determining the terms and circumstances of your participation in the relevant online gaming activity and the results of this participation.

consequently the claims that were made against me are not true, according to the terms and conditions, I ask for my winnings to be withdraw to me.

[Pmalek]

As a reputable casino & bookie, we try our best communicate with the Bitcointalk community, but when you say NBA games "always begin with a delay", it doesn't seem consistent with what I (the marketing guy behind this post) know.

Don't try to twist my words please. I wasn't talking about NBA exclusively, was I?. I said US sports, as in all the major sports being played in The States. And then I mentioned the ones I am familiar with. On top of that, I would like to mention NCAA college basketball as well. Sometimes it happens that two NCAA matches are broadcast on the same channel one after the other. If one match starts late (which they do) or lasts longer than expected, so does the other one. If the first match goes into overtime, for example, the second sometimes doesn't tip off before the first one ends. There are various combinations. If you are not aware of US sports beginning with a delay than I am afraid you don't know that much.   

I no longer watch NBA these days, but when I did, delays of over 10 minutes were rare.

A 10-mins delay is still a delay, is it not? And that's what I said. US sports begin with a delay and never on time.

My knowledge might not be the most up-to-date and perhaps NBAs do always start with a delay these days. Therefore, could you kindly provide a reliable source of statistics supporting the claim that NBA games "always begin with a delay" and "can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins"?

You are unbelievable. You just said in your previous sentence that from your experience NBA matches begin later than expected, even if only 10 minutes. You don't need a source. Take a look at tonight's program of US sports, pick a few matches, log in to bet365 (because they stream them live) and see at what time they will start.

You are the one that needs to provide proof that the player is doing late betting. You haven't done it yet. We have established that the bets the player placed on the match you used as an example was done with 8-9 mins left in the 4th quarter.

I am very close to suggesting that OP should create a flag against your casino and tag you as a scammer. I am going to support those tags unless you provide a valid reason why you have confiscated the player's funds with data that can be publicly verified with sources like BetsAPI. Are you going to provide proof or not? 

I am tagging LoyceV in this post. Let's see what one of the most trusted members of this forum thinks of "the proof" you have presented thus far. @LoyceV I know there is a lot to read but take as much time as you need, and share your thoughts if you feel you can contribute to the issue.   

[Poika5]

Coinbox1 edited his first post, RIP.

Throughout this entire thread, we discussed with Mr. Pmalek about this case for days. However, as Mr. Pmalek started to distort our words and put words in our mouths, the conversation gets increasingly non-constructive and unproductive. Having this type of conversion is inconsistent with how we do business, therefore we eventually decide to stop participating in this thread.

Make no mistake, some else's behavior won't affect OP's case. We still look forward to resolving this issue with the OP, who’s been labelled as abuser by our sports provider initially. If anyone can find following information, please feel free to send to info@trustdice.win so we can forward it to our sports provider for them to consider:

Then why you've been ignoring him for the past 5 days?
Your sports provider wouldn't label OP as an abuser, they are not that stupid.

- The actual time the game was delayed.

Irrelevant

- The exact score and countdown at 3:54 a.m. (UTC) on December 1, when the OP placed his bet.

The score was HOU 79, DEN 106
4th 9:07 Full timeout (Timeout #4)
https://betsapi.com/rs/cloudbet/5486040/HOU-Rockets-vs-DEN-Nuggets

- The exact time the timer started running and the actual length of the game.

Irrelevant

[Laki21000]

@coinbox1, please turn off the who is offended at everyone because you are accused of something, and conduct a constructive dialogue, there are more than 40 messages where evidence has already been provided for my bet, what else do you want?  maybe you need to go to the stadium cleaner and find out when the match started?  what are you even carrying?
@holydarkness told you all the movement of the match and made an assumption, I think they are good in resolving the dispute, but since you ran out of arguments, you decided to behave properly, strange

these are all people independent of me, can you still say that I am in cahoots with them?  what will you say next to protect your "scam casino"?

Make no mistake, some else's behavior won't affect OP's case. We still look forward to resolving this issue with the OP, who’s been labelled as abuser by our sports provider initially. If anyone can find following information, please feel free to send to info@trustdice.win so we can forward it to our sports provider for them to reconsider:
- The actual time the game was delayed.
- The exact score and countdown at 3:54 a.m. (UTC) on December 1, when the OP placed his bet.
- The exact time the timer started running and the actual length of the game.


Sincerely,
TrustDice Team

you write misleading users, you never answered my mail after sentencing me, it’s as if your mail is dead where you don’t answer anyone

Then why you've been ignoring him for the past 5 days?
Your sports provider wouldn't label OP as an abuser, they are not that stupid

because they don’t care about us, the players, they are sitting here to protect their reputation, nothing more, this is done so that new players come and leave money with them, they don’t care about me and you, judging by the behavior of @coinbox1, this is obvious


_______________________________________________________________________________ __________

https://statsdmz.nba.com/pdfs/20221130/20221130_HOUDEN_book.pdf (OFFICIAL NBA SITE)

go to the site nba.com and there will be match statistics, I will attach it now, I hope this is the right source for you
_______________________________________________________________________________ ___________________
Can this be considered evidence that the start time of the match was indicated in the official report of the NBA, on the site nba.com?

https://imgur.com/a/ohe6Mh4
https://imgur.com/a/W9u4Y8f

My bet was made at 8:53pm, match started at 7:10pm, 4th quarter started at 8:48pm, match ended at 9:13pm, match duration 2 hours 23 minutes, I think that's enough to understand everything.  I do not know what time zone is indicated in the document. (Time is from NBA report file)

I consider this the most official of the most official sources to prove all match times.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

Are you done?

Now with that out of the way, the only way forward is you proving that the player is a malicious person who partakes in frowned upon activities such as late betting. You have not done that yet and instead you have made yourself look ridiculous with claims that bets were placed at the end of the matches. If you can't prove the player is a cheater, his account needs to be unlocked, so that he can withdraw the winnings.

Do you have any plans to post some proof of a late bet? It shouldn't be that hard for you since there are so many examples in the OP's betting history, right? I wonder why it takes so long...

[Laki21000]

In my opinion, the case has reached a dead end, or they don’t want to solve it, or they no longer have arguments

[holydarkness]

I think some clarification is needed here, some aspect needed to be straigthened out.

First of all, Coinbox1allow me to edit-slash-quote the post you quoted with the unsnipped version that will give a broader and almost different meaning than what your cleverly snipped version conveyed, marked in italic with key notes marked in red.

[...]

Dear Bitcointalk community,

Throughout this entire thread, we discussed with Mr. Pmalek about this case for days. However, as Mr. Pmalek started to distort our words and put words in our mouths, the conversation gets increasingly non-constructive and unproductive. Having this type of conversion is inconsistent with how we do business, therefore we eventually decide to stop participating in this thread.

Here is an example of how Mr. Pmalek distorts our words.
We said:

As a reputable casino & bookie, we try our best communicate with the Bitcointalk community, but when you say NBA games "always begin with a delay", it doesn't seem consistent with what I (the marketing guy behind this post) know.

I no longer watch NBA these days, but when I did, delays of over 10 minutes were rare. My knowledge might not be the most up-to-date and perhaps NBAs do always start with a delay these days. Therefore, could you kindly provide a reliable source of statistics supporting the claim that NBA games "always begin with a delay" and "can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins"?

Then Mr. Pmalek started to distort the meaning of that sentence:

You just said in your previous sentence that from your experience NBA matches begin later than expected, even if only 10 minutes.

No, we didn’t say "NBA matches begin later than expected". We said “delays of over 10 minutes were rare." In English, when we say something is "rare", it means the thing is very unusual. It doesn't mean the thing's opposite definitely always happens. So when we say "delays of over 10 minutes were rare", it means "delays of over 10 minutes" are very unusual. It doesn't mean "delays of below 10 minutes" definitely always happens. For everyone's reference, here comes a ink to Cambridge Dictionary.

If I may stressed the point you tried to prove on those posts were that OP bet at a very late of the game, because the game started at 02.00 of OP's local time, with an assumption that average NBA game lasts 2h13m, so at 03.54, OP's bet --according to you, at that moment--  is near the end of the game where the result is predictable --I'd leave the "fact" that according to your own data and assumption at that point, there's still 19 mins left on the game, that's 1 quarter of a basketball match itself-- and can be considered as a late betting, which later Pmalek argued that your calculation should include the delay that happen on the opening of the game, thus OP's timing to place his bet is even further from the end of the game.

Sadly, instead of examining his own behaviors, Mr. Pmalek decided to strike first and accuse us first.

This is his accusation:

Don't try to twist my words please. I wasn't talking about NBA exclusively, was I?. I said US sports, as in all the major sports being played in The States. And then I mentioned the ones I am familiar with. On top of that, I would like to mention NCAA college basketball as well. Sometimes it happens that two NCAA matches are broadcast on the same channel one after the other. If one match starts late (which they do) or lasts longer than expected, so does the other one. If the first match goes into overtime, for example, the second sometimes doesn't tip off before the first one ends. There are various combinations. If you are not aware of US sports beginning with a delay than I am afraid you don't know that much.

But let's take a look at what he said:

I am familiar with the MLS, NBA, and NHL (I can't say anything for other leagues/sports), and they always begin with a delay. That can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins.

So they clearly include NBA. And that means the delay of they. So Mr. Pmalek did mean "NBA always begin with a delay".

Yes, he did include NBA, but he wasn't exclusively talking about NBA, he's referring to --as per your own word, edited to be gramatically correct with the rest of my sentence-- them, namely the sports he's familiar with.

And we understood he meant it and we asked a follow-up question. But it is where he claims we twisted his words:

Therefore, could you kindly provide a reliable source of statistics supporting the claim that NBA games "always begin with a delay" and "can be as little as 10 minutes or even up to 30-40 mins"?

As explained above, his sentences did mean "NBA always begin with a delay", then, strangely enough, he accuses us of saying so. So forgive us that we have to refute such false accusation.

No, his sentence means a broader scope, not exclusively NBA, an educated-based-on-experience answer where most sport in US --that he's familiar with-- begins with delay, disregarding the length of the delay, a delay is a delay. Sports almost never played right on the time stated on their schedule.

And, returning us back to the point being discussed, what he said is basically fall along the line: you should add time of delay to your calculation.

This entire discussion became entirely useless though, because OP came with an extremely specific and official timeline published by NBA themselves --where the delay did happen for 10 minutes.

What I tried to say for these part of my post is: painting Pmalek as someone bad is really frown inducing, because he asked you multiple times to give another example, he gave you an un-sided request that perhaps there is another case that can show and prove your claim that OP did a late bet. He gave you what was due to you: a benefit of doubts. Which you never use.

And to be fair, it is you who attacked Pmalek --sneakily if I may add, by editing your first post on this thread where it can be easily missed by anyone who jumped straight to the last post they read-- by saying he distorted your words and the conversation became non constructive and unproductive. He asked you for another case to be dissected, how's this unproductive? How's this inconsistent with how you do business? Simply put, we almost can say he tried to say, "This case you gave is unproven to be true, please give another example that better show the point you tried to say about OP." Isn't that you do your business? Profesionally and always seeking for proven truth?

Make no mistake, someone else's behavior won't affect OP's case. We still look forward to resolving this issue with the OP, who’s been labelled as abuser by our sports provider initially. If anyone can find following information, please feel free to send to info@trustdice.win so we can forward it to our sports provider for them to reconsider:
- The actual time the game was delayed.
- The exact score and countdown at 3:54 a.m. (UTC) on December 1, when the OP placed his bet.
- The exact time the timer started running and the actual length of the game.


Sincerely,
TrustDice Team

OP had the details, all of the points you wanted to know and wrote above, for your perusal and you still ignored them. How's this trying to resolve the issue with OP?


Now, seeing how Coinbox1 reacted to Pmalek's post, I think it is necessary to add this note before I said what i'll say next: the sentence below is purely describing my personal opinion and judgement, and it should not be used to build your --and by "you" I mean anyone reading this thread-- opinion of OP, Trustdice, Trustdice's representative Coinbox1, or anyone else in this thread.

"OP, seeing Coinbox1's choice of action and how they reacted and behaved to the development of this case reminds me of what I initially thought when I read their post here, that they're trying to grasp at the straws. If their action is the reflection of how the platform operates and how they handled future issues, I'm afraid this is a detrimental behavior. I've been aware that Poika5 had raised a flag here against Coinbox1 on behalf of this thread, that I've been reluctant to support until further development and shows of good will or cooperation from them. But, seeing how they reacted, answered, and keeps refusing to give a strong evidence for their counter-accusation against you, I am inclined to believe they are not about to show any good will. Thus, I am supporting Poika5's flag. Their flag is a type-1, you are free to create another flag of type-2 or 3 if you want to and I'll probably support that too if they still refuse to show another case to support their counter-accusation against you and prove that you're cheating them."


Edit: fixing the flag link

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

I have supported the flag against the casino and its forum admin. When they created the flag, Poika5 mentioned Laki21000's thread (the one we are writing in) and that's why I can support it. I want to remain unbiased and neutral and since I am not familiar yet with Poika5's case and their claim against Trustdice, I couldn't have supported a flag created because of that incident. 

I would also suggest that Laki21000 create a Type 2 or 3 type of flag for his particular case because he is directly affected by the casino's actions.
When you have created the flag Laki21000, you can post the link here so that other users can support it if they want to. Put a link in your first post as well.
You can also request support for your flag or the one created by Poika5 by posting about it in LoyceV's thread Request Support (or Opposition) for Flags here!. Just make sure you follow the guidelines as explained by LoyceV.

[Laki21000]

<Snip>

I have supported the flag against the casino and its forum admin. When they created the flag, Poika5 mentioned Laki21000's thread (the one we are writing in) and that's why I can support it. I want to remain unbiased and neutral and since I am not familiar yet with Poika5's case and their claim against Trustdice, I couldn't have supported a flag created because of that incident. 

I would also suggest that Laki21000 create a Type 2 or 3 type of flag for his particular case because he is directly affected by the casino's actions.
When you have created the flag Laki21000, you can post the link here so that other users can support it if they want to. Put a link in your first post as well.
You can also request support for your flag or the one created by Poika5 by posting about it in LoyceV's thread Request Support (or Opposition) for Flags here!. Just make sure you follow the guidelines as explained by LoyceV.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3066

Check my flag please. I don't know if I did everything right

[holydarkness]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3066

Check my flag please. I don't know if I did everything right

You've correctly raised a type-2 flag, a flag for breach of implied or casual agreement, if that's what you meant to raise. You can edit your opening post and add the link to that post so readers would be able to find it easier --and support/oppose if they want to. As Pmalek said, you can also ask for other DT member's help to judge your case and then give their support to the flag on this thread.

I'll wait for couple of days, still giving Coinbox1 a benefit of doubts, to see if they'll give another case that shows you're indeed late-betting and their counter-accusation would then proven to be true. I am aware that they're online couple times after they edited their first reply on this post, they can even made a post on their thread, so they should've been aware about the updates on this thread or --at the very least, if they deliberately ignored this thread, which rather a big frown-- aware that their account is now tagged with negative trust. If they still refused to clear this issue despite their claim on their edited post and, by that, implicitly admitted that their counter-accusation is invalid and thus they're wrongfully freeze an honest user and denied your rights, they'll kinda forced it out of my hand and I won't have other option but to support the flag.

[Laki21000]

Trustdice casino wrote me an email, wait again, okay, let's wait. There are no specific dates, either.

https://imgur.com/a/pFGb9Bf

[Rating Place]

Trustdice - I don't go outside of the rating's guide that much but I am this time since I was sent a PM. You should pay both these players. Logically, if these players were past posting, they would be betting a lot more. Of course, this isn't proof and can be ignored but it is a red flag. If you have solid proof that they past posted, then cancel those bets and show timestamps. Even if you cancel those bets, confiscating money should not be done. I'll never make a downgrade on one or two complaints where there's some grey area, but this is a simple clear cut case. Prove the past bets. Return the other money immediately.  I lowered you to "D-" until further notice.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717790.0


P.S. If further information comes out on these cases, please make me aware.

[Pmalek]

Check my flag please. I don't know if I did everything right

The flag is OK. It just needs support from at least 3 DT members before it becomes visible for everyone.

Trustdice casino wrote me an email, wait again, okay, let's wait. There are no specific dates, either.
<Snip>

They take a player's money, announce that he/she is a cheater, and then tell the player to wait while they investigate whether or not they cheated. Excellent customer relations. Great job Trustdice.

[examplens]

Check my flag please. I don't know if I did everything right

The flag is OK. It just needs support from at least 3 DT members before it becomes visible for everyone.

I supported the flag.
I didn't read the whole thread, TL;DR, but as far as I understand, OP's betting was not accepted because he placed bets late or even after the end of the match. did I understand the essence of the whole problem correctly?
isn't that the casino's fault? if according to their rules it is not allowed, why is it possible at all?
I would say that the fault lies only with the casino and its bad coding, they had to foresee it and prevent such potential abuse. they should admit a mistake in the system and if they don't want it to happen again, make corrections and disable such bets.

[holydarkness]

Check my flag please. I don't know if I did everything right

The flag is OK. It just needs support from at least 3 DT members before it becomes visible for everyone.

I supported the flag.
I didn't read the whole thread, TL;DR, but as far as I understand, OP's betting was not accepted because he placed bets late or even after the end of the match. did I understand the essence of the whole problem correctly?
isn't that the casino's fault? if according to their rules it is not allowed, why is it possible at all?
I would say that the fault lies only with the casino and its bad coding, they had to foresee it and prevent such potential abuse. they should admit a mistake in the system and if they don't want it to happen again, make corrections and disable such bets.

A tad bit wrong, in a worse sense for trustdice. By your description, they simply made "an error" in coding, and they could --should-- just admit the mistake and fix the problem, and everything is good as new.

Unfortunately, in these whole 3 fun pages of banter and lovely conversation, Coinbox1 accused OP of utilizing a bug and placed bet at the end of the game, where facts given by everybody else on this thread shows otherwise, that the bet was placed about the early minutes of quarter 4 of NBA game, still very far from "near-the-end". They still insist on it and when Pmalek suggested them to provide other case --because they said OP did this several times-- they went ballistic and attacked Pmalek.

Trustdice casino wrote me an email, wait again, okay, let's wait. There are no specific dates, either.

https://imgur.com/a/pFGb9Bf

This decision they made, although shows a good gesture, is rather unfortunate. They decided to simply be "a generous platform" and "re-consider" your case after every evidence proven them to be wrong, indirectly --and reluctantly-- said that they've wrongly accuse you, let alone to reach through a very more private way to mitigate the crisis they elevated themselves, most likely to hide from public exposure of their foul play for baseless judgement, IMO this is clearly not a good gesture.

I was really expecting them to provide a concrete evidence by another case that you've indeed wronged them and their accusation is true. We'll probably in a very different situation if they stand by their accusation of multiple late bet and could provide the supporting evidences. Instead, this happens. And by these actions of theirs, I stand by my opinion that their behavior is detrimental, both the marketing-guy-behind-this-post who act improfessionally and the solution center of the platform themselves who made this case more difficult than it needed to. Thanks to both of them, there's no guarantee that anyone playing on their platform won't face similar treatment in the future.

I supported the flag.

[Pmalek]

I didn't read the whole thread, TL;DR, but as far as I understand, OP's betting was not accepted because he placed bets late or even after the end of the match. did I understand the essence of the whole problem correctly?
isn't that the casino's fault? if according to their rules it is not allowed, why is it possible at all?

The bets were accepted. The player wagered and won. But when he wanted to withdraw, they asked him for KYC, froze his account, and confiscated his balance. After that they started claiming he was late betting without showing a single case to back up those claims.

They made a ridiculous claim that the player made a wager at odds that shouldn't have been possible for a long time. It's interesting that when you take a look at a live match from their sportsbook, everything works great. The odds are adjusted in time, and if there is a technical problem, the markets get closed when needed, etc. I am watching a live match from Bulgaria right now. There is less than 3 mins left on the clock in the 4th quarter, and there are many open markets still that you can bet on. But when OP placed a bet with 8-9 mins left on the clock, that's considered "late betting". 

[Rating Place]

If you want to see an actual tipoff time, it can be found on the gamebook at NBA.com. But the case above is a simple case of past posting. If Trustdice wants to accuse the player of past posting, they have to prove it.



Example of start times

[Rating Place]

Here's the largest loss that I remember on past posts.

Seven longtime Las Vegas bookmakers can’t recall a larger loss. But each oddsmaker has taken hits on past posts and said it’s a fairly common occurrence at books.

“It’s happened to all of us,” Westgate sportsbook director John Murray said. “I think every sportsbook probably since the beginning of time has dealt with this at some point.

“We’ve had past post situations where our employees put in the wrong time or put in the wrong number or they forgot to close something. It’s manual entry and humans are going to make mistakes.”

Sunday’s bets were allowed to be placed because incorrect start times were posted on some Korean and Chinese baseball games due to a manual entry error, according to an ESPN report.

Nearly all of the approximately 50 wagers were placed on self-serve kiosks at the Bellagio between 1:30 and 3 a.m. when the games in question started at 1 and 2 a.m.

Among the bets was a $250 10-leg parlay that paid $137,107.38.

Trustdice - why do you want to penalize players instead of just refund if past posted? A lot times books cause a past post because of delays accepting live wagers.

[yahoo62278]

I will add my support for the flag as well. From what I am reading in this thread, coinbox1 really is unaware of how live betting works. Most site disable bets on a game in the last 2 minutes, so really it is impossible for a person to late bet or whatever. Now if Trustdice has an error in their site, then it's on them to fix it instead of trying to accuse users of cheating without providing real proof.

Really sad to see it come to this.

[Alphie12]

TD didn't show that OP past posted. What is support the flag?

[Laki21000]

I received a payment from TrustDice, they also gave me 100 usdt as a bonus, however, I would like to ask the bitcointalk community if it is worth removing the flag and all the negative ratings from the casino?, also let @Poika5 know if the money was withdrawn.

I also have a lot of questions from Trustdice, why there was no feedback, why such an incompetent person works as a marketer, and will my account be active further? but will they tell me to make a deposit again in this casino...
UPD: The support operator said that I have been cleared and can continue to play on the site, but for some reason I have doubts and they can also block me in the future, only for a different reason, tell me the correct path of events, the employees and business building at Trustdice are terrible, but the software and the line for sports is good, where is it better to turn?


P.S. Thank you, @Poika5 @Pmalek, @holydarkness for your work, and for your independent assessment of events, I have no merit to support and thank you. However, behind the monitor, you will take my kind words to yourself.



https://imgur.com/a/BXbKaF8

[Poika5]

I received a payment from TrustDice, they also gave me 100 usdt as a bonus

Wow, thats really surprising, great job Laki! You were really persistent and fought for your money.

I also have a lot of questions from Trustdice, why there was no feedback, why such an incompetent person works as a marketer, and will my account be active further? but will they tell me to make a deposit again in this casino...

This whole thing has been so confusing, Coinbox1 needs to publicly apologize at the very least.

the employees and business building at Trustdice are terrible, but the software and the line for sports is good, where is it better to turn?

Duelbits, same sports provider, reduced juice.

P.S. Thank you, @poika5 @pmalek, @holydarness for your work, and for your independent assessment of events, I have no measures to support and thank you. However, behind the monitor, you will take my kind words to yourself.

Your welcome, mate.


Oh, Coinbox1 edited his first post.

Update Dec 19, 2022:


Upon reviewing OP's submitted info, we discussed with our sports provider as soon as possible to re-evaluate the decision. As a result of such discussion, we have decided to unblock OP's account, return the confiscated funds, and have informed the OP at the first opportunity. We also sent $100 withdraw-able bonus to OP's account to compensate for the inconvenience caused by all the these.

It is our understanding that OP has initiated a withdrawal, which has been approved. As the below TX id suggests, the transaction has now been completed:
https://tronscan.org/#/transaction/603bc06c1665a40215a4e01e163f1bc9c32ab83e5f800be2592bb4be186fcda5
This means OP has received his full balance, plus $100 bonus.

We deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused and will work hard to improve our sports betting anti-abuse systems.


Sincerely,
TrustDice Team

We deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused and will work hard to improve our sports betting anti-abuse systems.

Love it, thanks Coinbox.


EDIT:

@Poika5 , Did you receive your payment?

Not yet, but looks promising.

We can now confirm that the user has passed the KYC check. Based on this, we have initiated a further investigation into what might have led to the account suspension.

[Laki21000]

Upon reviewing OP's submitted info, we discussed with our sports provider as soon as possible to re-evaluate the decision. As a result of such discussion, we have decided to unblock OP's account, return the confiscated funds, and have informed the OP at the first opportunity. We also sent $100 withdraw-able bonus to OP's account to compensate for the inconvenience caused by all the these.

It is our understanding that OP has initiated a withdrawal, which has been approved. As the below TX id suggests, the transaction has now been completed:
https://tronscan.org/#/transaction/603bc06c1665a40215a4e01e163f1bc9c32ab83e5f800be2592bb4be186fcda5
This means OP has received his full balance, plus $100 bonus.

We deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused and will work hard to improve our sports betting anti-abuse systems.


Sincerely,
TrustDice Team

I am very happy that you admitted your mistakes after 2 weeks of hard discussion, however give me a couple of answers to my questions, will you progress on the feedback question from the players? they won’t block again with similar extremely gross errors in the study of violations, because for example, I will also bet for my own pleasure and you decide to block me again, only on other points of your rules (I noticed that you block users only if they get a plus)



@Poika5 , Did you receive your payment?

[Pmalek]

From what I am reading in this thread, coinbox1 really is unaware of how live betting works. Most site disable bets on a game in the last 2 minutes, so really it is impossible for a person to late bet or whatever. Now if Trustdice has an error in their site, then it's on them to fix it instead of trying to accuse users of cheating without providing real proof.

I didn't notice any errors. I mentioned two days ago in my previous reply that I followed the markets and the events as they were happening for a basketball match from Bulgaria. With 3 mins left in the last quarter, it was still possible to bet. But when the clock came close to 2 mins left, all the markets were closed and betting was no longer possible.

<Snip>

That's great news. I would personally take my business elsewhere if something like that happened to me. The bigger odds aren't worth it if nasty things like what you just experienced can happen again in the future. We also have Poika5 with an accusation against the casino whose case I will try to take a look at when I can.

Sportsbet.io has a good sportsbook. Instant deposits, bet boosters, promotions, the occasional free bets, and various betting competitions for the Bitcointalk community that you can take a look at in Games & Rounds.

Regarding the flags. I think the newbie flag (the first one you opened) should remain. It serves as a warning to everyone about what can happen at Trustdice.
You can remove support for the second one (Type 2 - violation of an agreement) if you have forgiven the injustice and financial damage done to you. You are the victim, so it's your decision. If you have forgiven the act, you need to remove support for the flag. If the victim is satisfied with the outcome, those who support the flag should according to my understanding be as well because we weren't personally affected.

The only other (alleged) victim we know of is Poika5. But since I am personally not familiar with what happened between him and the casino and would need to independently check his case and claims, I feel it's wrong and biased of me to keep supporting the flag. However, he could and still should. Or he can create his own flag just like you and see if he will get enough support for it.

[Coinbox1]

I am very happy that you admitted your mistakes after 2 weeks of hard discussion, however give me a couple of answers to my questions, will you progress on the feedback question from the players? they won’t block again with similar extremely gross errors in the study of violations, because for example, I will also bet for my own pleasure and you decide to block me again, only on other points of your rules

I discussed with both our Customer Support and Risk Management and your account is all set back to normal right now. With that being said, for full disclosure, if your bet limit might be modified by our sports provider, which is beyond our control.

Without knowing what will happen in the future, it would be irresponsible of me to give you a guarantee that you will never be accused of another violation in the future. To this end, I strongly recommend that you carefully read our T&C and Sports Betting rules.

You obviously have ample reasons to take your money and leave, which we fully understand. But when you do it, we equally recommend you to carefully read through their T&C and other rules. Late betting bans aren't uncommon in sports books. So are arbitrage betting bans.


Best regards,
TrustDice Team

[Pmalek]

Late betting bans aren't uncommon in sports books.

That's right. Players can get banned or limited for it. And that's ok as long as the player actually did that. But you never provided one single example of a late bet from this person. Still, you took his money and made him look guilty and decided to play with words about who said what. The one example you posted, you failed miserably because according to the data that Poika5 found on a 3rd-party site, it was a legit bet placed 8-9 mins before the end of the match. 

Who knows how many other players were and maybe still are treated in the same way, but they simply give up and don't scream as loud as Laki did. Maybe the $2k he withdrew is money confiscated from other innocent players in the period since this thread was started.

Get your shit together. You will have much more success long-term running a legit operation than being scammy.   

[Rating Place]

I am very happy that you admitted your mistakes after 2 weeks of hard discussion, however give me a couple of answers to my questions, will you progress on the feedback question from the players? they won’t block again with similar extremely gross errors in the study of violations, because for example, I will also bet for my own pleasure and you decide to block me again, only on other points of your rules

I discussed with both our Customer Support and Risk Management and your account is all set back to normal right now. With that being said, for full disclosure, if your bet limit might be modified by our sports provider, which is beyond our control.

Without knowing what will happen in the future, it would be irresponsible of me to give you a guarantee that you will never be accused of another violation in the future. To this end, I strongly recommend that you carefully read our T&C and Sports Betting rules.

You obviously have ample reasons to take your money and leave, which we fully understand. But when you do it, we equally recommend you to carefully read through their T&C and other rules. Late betting bans aren't uncommon in sports books. So are arbitrage betting bans.


Best regards,
TrustDice Team

Appreciate that you did the right thing. Past posting is something that all books have to deal with. In the end, you did the right thing and I re-instated your grade.

edit- the only thing that I don't like is that you should have bitten your tongue rather than give a warning. It still looks like an accusation. When a player makes a live bet, it's always close to a change, thus called "live" instead of "pregame". Put a player on a longer delay if you fear his live bets. Don't give us a warning or threat.

[examplens]

since this whole case is positively resolved, I am withdrawing my support for flags. I will leave neutral feedback with a reference to this thread just as a reminder.

I absolutely agree with Pmalek here, it seems that the resolution of this case was greatly helped by the pressure of the forum community, but that is not the right way to run a business. We do not know if there are other similar cases, but they are not presented here.
I hope that you have learned a valuable lesson from everything and that you will correct this in the future.

[holydarkness]

I'd congratulate you, Laki21000, I hope the amount won, added, and returned to you can be used for good things in your life. For your question about flags, I have to say Pmalek raised a good point, if you have forgave them, then you can withdraw your flag ¹ because, after all, half of the content of the flag is no longer accurate. I'm not sure if it's a good idea, though.

I'll be honest here, most of this post was written yesterday and I was ready to post it at that time. However, I decided to take it to my sleep and see if I got a better insight in the morning and be as objective as I can.

By the sunrise, I spare my time on the arbitrators' site to read all of the cases raised against TrustDice and found that on CasinoGuru there are 7 complains raised against them --one of them is yours. Three of it were sportsbet related and can't be solved by CG and thus we didn't know the outcome of it, although one from them moved his case to AG --see below. Two other cases I had to side with TD, they provide a strong evidence of multi-acc abuse on one case and the other one was... let's say the other party is kinda... impulsive and it's out of TD's hand, not TD's responsibility. The last two, though, solved after those user escalated this case to CG. In one of them, the CG representative even judged that TD is more-or-less abusing their rules to work in their favor.

AskGambler has 10 cases for TD --one of them is Poika5's-- 5 of them are resolved with evidences. One was marked as rejected because the accuser didn't provide KYC after the specified time, although it might worth mentioning that their case was hung without response for one month, reopened and reopened again after that, for $627, which understandably too much hassle and bothersome for some people. One was marked as unresolved because TD stopped replying the case, it's about taking bets from restricted country --I'd urge you all to read the case, it's very interesting-- two were resolved after they escalated their case to AG, where in one case TD just refunded the money without any explanation after they can't provide evidence for their counter accusation, much like Laki's case, it was sportsbetting case as well. And the other one was the one I mentioned above, the user who moved to AG after CG didn't handle sportsbetting. His funds were claimed to be frozen because of "an error".

From these cases, I think it's quite unbiased to say that although TD made several good job on gambling platform and were wronged by multi acc abuser, their sportsbet division is very poor and they are easy on throwing ban without proper evidences to back up their action --not to mention that one case where they throw their rules to justify their action-- and only lift their ban after their user raises some noise.

Thus, no matter what's the outcome of Poika5's case --whether they being wronged by TD too or they wronged TD-- I think there still a lot of non-newbie on this forum who looked for betting platform, and if your type-2 flag removed, there will be no warning for these higher-than-newbie members, there's a chance they fall into this inconvenient situation. I will stil honor your decision, though, and I'll withdraw my support for the flag if you asked me to.

While for Poika5's newbie flag, in tone with Pmalek, I think it should stay to warn anyone in the future about this issue and the possible unpleasant scenarios if they decided to sign up to TrustDice.

Regardless of what happens with the flags, my tag will stay for the same reason I based my opinion for the type-1 flag: I can't trust this site or the guys behind them.

First, the fact that they insisted on something without trying to consider the evidences or pleas made by their user. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they finally solved your problem simply because you created a huge noise which ultimately made them ended up with two active flags and several tags from DT.

Second, although I am not sure if the decision is fully made by the representative of the site, the-guy-behind-this-post, without other people from the site knowing or if their "higher ups" knows and fully supported these action, but it's proven that they love to play sneaky by editing their first reply where existing people are less likely to notice and twist words into a narrative that works to their favor for those who read just the first few posts: they're the good guy who tried to solve problem, but the case became unconstructive because some people twisted our words.

It is not a good characteristic of a trusted site. If they really honest and determined to solve issues, they'll address these concern directly and in the open, by replying to the last post --not to mention quote statements properly and correctly instead of a tailored snippets that drives a completely different meaning-- and addressed these "unconstructive people" with strong evidences.

Third, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but part of this sentence extremely disturbs me:

[...]
In addition, we notice that Mr. holydarkness, another gentleman from Croaita, is also behaving in a similar manner.
[...]

I can't see any other reason behind the unecessary extra words "from Croatia" than an attempt of implying a message, "we know where you're from, we know who you are". And this is really really worrying. Does this reflect on how they address people who has a conflict of interest with them, be it in the present or the future? A threat? I'm open for a less-paranoid suggestions on what's the meaning behind those unnecessary addition.

Oh, Coinbox1, hot news for you, you guessed wrong. You're not the first who tried to publicly doxx me and failed miserably though, IIRC somene once said I'm from India --or was it Pakistan?-- it's fun, but you're not welcome to try again.

I am very happy that you admitted your mistakes after 2 weeks of hard discussion, however give me a couple of answers to my questions, will you progress on the feedback question from the players? they won’t block again with similar extremely gross errors in the study of violations, because for example, I will also bet for my own pleasure and you decide to block me again, only on other points of your rules

I discussed with both our Customer Support and Risk Management and your account is all set back to normal right now. With that being said, for full disclosure, if your bet limit might be modified by our sports provider, which is beyond our control.

Without knowing what will happen in the future, it would be irresponsible of me to give you a guarantee that you will never be accused of another violation in the future. To this end, I strongly recommend that you carefully read our T&C and Sports Betting rules.

You obviously have ample reasons to take your money and leave, which we fully understand. But when you do it, we equally recommend you to carefully read through their T&C and other rules. Late betting bans aren't uncommon in sports books. So are arbitrage betting bans.


Best regards,
TrustDice Team

Appreciate that you did the right thing. Past posting is something that all books have to deal with. In the end, you did the right thing and I re-instated your grade.

edit- the only thing that I don't like is that you should have bitten your lip rather than give a warning. It still looks like an accusation. When a player makes a live bet, it's always close to a change, thus called "live" instead of "pregame". Put a player on a longer delay if you fear his live bets. Don't give us a warning or threat.

You're joking, right? The OP was not even late betting, they're wrongly accused.


¹can we actually delete a flag we raised? I thought there's this warning at the bottom of the flag page about "flag can not be deleted"?

[Rating Place]

I'd congratulate you, Laki21000, I hope the amount won, added, and returned to you can be used for good things in your life. For your question about flags, I have to say Pmalek raised a good point, if you have forgave them, then you can withdraw your flag ¹ because, after all, half of the content of the flag is no longer accurate. I'm not sure if it's a good idea, though.

I'll be honest here, most of this post was written yesterday and I was ready to post it at that time. However, I decided to take it to my sleep and see if I got a better insight in the morning and be as objective as I can.

By the sunrise, I spare my time on the arbitrators' site to read all of the cases raised against TrustDice and found that on CasinoGuru there are 7 complains raised against them --one of them is yours. Three of it were sportsbet related and can't be solved by CG and thus we didn't know the outcome of it, although one from them moved his case to AG --see below. Two other cases I had to side with TD, they provide a strong evidence of multi-acc abuse on one case and the other one was... let's say the other party is kinda... impulsive and it's out of TD's hand, not TD's responsibility. The last two, though, solved after those user escalated this case to CG. In one of them, the CG representative even judged that TD is more-or-less abusing their rules to work in their favor.

AskGambler has 10 cases for TD --one of them is Poika5's-- 5 of them are resolved with evidences. One was marked as rejected because the accuser didn't provide KYC after the specified time, although it might worth mentioning that their case was hung without response for one month, reopened and reopened again after that, for $627, which understandably too much hassle and bothersome for some people. One was marked as unresolved because TD stopped replying the case, it's about taking bets from restricted country --I'd urge you all to read the case, it's very interesting-- two were resolved after they escalated their case to AG, where in one case TD just refunded the money without any explanation after they can't provide evidence for their counter accusation, much like Laki's case, it was sportsbetting case as well. And the other one was the one I mentioned above, the user who moved to AG after CG didn't handle sportsbetting. His funds were claimed to be frozen because of "an error".

From these cases, I think it's quite unbiased to say that although TD made several good job on gambling platform and were wronged by multi acc abuser, their sportsbet division is very poor and they are easy on throwing ban without proper evidences to back up their action --not to mention that one case where they throw their rules to justify their action-- and only lift their ban after their user raises some noise.

Thus, no matter what's the outcome of Poika5's case --whether they being wronged by TD too or they wronged TD-- I think there still a lot of non-newbie on this forum who looked for betting platform, and if your type-2 flag removed, there will be no warning for these higher-than-newbie members, there's a chance they fall into this inconvenient situation. I will stil honor your decision, though, and I'll withdraw my support for the flag if you asked me to.

While for Poika5's newbie flag, in tone with Pmalek, I think it should stay to warn anyone in the future about this issue and the possible unpleasant scenarios if they decided to sign up to TrustDice.

Regardless of what happens with the flags, my tag will stay for the same reason I based my opinion for the type-1 flag: I can't trust this site or the guys behind them.

First, the fact that they insisted on something without trying to consider the evidences or pleas made by their user. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they finally solved your problem simply because you created a huge noise which ultimately made them ended up with two active flags and several tags from DT.

Second, although I am not sure if the decision is fully made by the representative of the site, the-guy-behind-this-post, without other people from the site knowing or if their "higher ups" knows and fully supported these action, but it's proven that they love to play sneaky by editing their first reply where existing people are less likely to notice and twist words into a narrative that works to their favor for those who read just the first few posts: they're the good guy who tried to solve problem, but the case became unconstructive because some people twisted our words.

It is not a good characteristic of a trusted site. If they really honest and determined to solve issues, they'll address these concern directly and in the open, by replying to the last post --not to mention quote statements properly and correctly instead of a tailored snippets that drives a completely different meaning-- and addressed these "unconstructive people" with strong evidences.

Third, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but part of this sentence extremely disturbs me:

[...]
In addition, we notice that Mr. holydarkness, another gentleman from Croaita, is also behaving in a similar manner.
[...]

I can't see any other reason behind the unecessary extra words "from Croatia" than an attempt of implying a message, "we know where you're from, we know who you are". And this is really really worrying. Does this reflect on how they address people who has a conflict of interest with them, be it in the present or the future? A threat? I'm open for a less-paranoid suggestions on what's the meaning behind those unnecessary addition.

Oh, Coinbox1, hot news for you, you guessed wrong. You're not the first who tried to publicly doxx me and failed miserably though, IIRC somene once said I'm from India --or was it Pakistan?-- it's fun, but you're not welcome to try again.

I am very happy that you admitted your mistakes after 2 weeks of hard discussion, however give me a couple of answers to my questions, will you progress on the feedback question from the players? they won’t block again with similar extremely gross errors in the study of violations, because for example, I will also bet for my own pleasure and you decide to block me again, only on other points of your rules

I discussed with both our Customer Support and Risk Management and your account is all set back to normal right now. With that being said, for full disclosure, if your bet limit might be modified by our sports provider, which is beyond our control.

Without knowing what will happen in the future, it would be irresponsible of me to give you a guarantee that you will never be accused of another violation in the future. To this end, I strongly recommend that you carefully read our T&C and Sports Betting rules.

You obviously have ample reasons to take your money and leave, which we fully understand. But when you do it, we equally recommend you to carefully read through their T&C and other rules. Late betting bans aren't uncommon in sports books. So are arbitrage betting bans.


Best regards,
TrustDice Team

Appreciate that you did the right thing. Past posting is something that all books have to deal with. In the end, you did the right thing and I re-instated your grade.

edit- the only thing that I don't like is that you should have bitten your lip rather than give a warning. It still looks like an accusation. When a player makes a live bet, it's always close to a change, thus called "live" instead of "pregame". Put a player on a longer delay if you fear his live bets. Don't give us a warning or threat.

You're joking, right? The OP was not even late betting, they're wrongly accused.


¹can we actually delete a flag we raised? I thought there's this warning at the bottom of the flag page about "flag can not be deleted"?

I said that Trusdice shouldn't make an accusation of past posting. "the only thing that I don't like is that you should have bitten your lip rather than give a warning. It still looks like an accusation." Even in Trustdice's reply they seem to be saying that there is wrongdoing.

Trustdice doesn't make the decision on limiting players and seeing things such as past posts. The odds provider will limit players and it can get carried over to all books using that provider. That's why when you try a new book, you may get limited fast. They figure out who you are from play at another book using the same provider. I'm sure that Trustdice can override if wanted.

[Laki21000]

as i see flag 2 is removed.  but I agree with the opinion that flag 1 should be left so that in the future beginners know that an untidy situation with their funds may occur.  however, we are waiting for a decision on the user @poika5

[examplens]

as i see flag 2 is removed.  but I agree with the opinion that flag 1 should be left so that in the future beginners know that an untidy situation with their funds may occur.  however, we are waiting for a decision on the user @poika5

the flag you left is still there, but it is inactive because there is not enough support after my withdrawal and opposing the same flag.
User poika5 also creates a flag referencing this case. since this case is positively resolved, the second flag also has no reason to be active. after all that, he no longer has any influence on that flag. nor can he erase him, and his vote is not as strong as the votes of DT members.

if you or anyone else wants to mark their profile, do it via the feedback. I'd say that's more appropriate. speculating whether they will make the same mistake in the future or whether there may be another case is still only speculation. the assumption is still not enough to mark someone as a fraud.

I would also keep this in mind. this case was resolved due to pressure on the forum, Trustdice team decided to try to protect and preserve the reputation here. if we were to punish them for a mistake they admitted and corrected, I don't know what will be their motive in the next case.

[Laki21000]

as i see flag 2 is removed.  but I agree with the opinion that flag 1 should be left so that in the future beginners know that an untidy situation with their funds may occur.  however, we are waiting for a decision on the user @poika5

the flag you left is still there, but it is inactive because there is not enough support after my withdrawal and opposing the same flag.
User poika5 also creates a flag referencing this case. since this case is positively resolved, the second flag also has no reason to be active. after all that, he no longer has any influence on that flag. nor can he erase him, and his vote is not as strong as the votes of DT members.

if you or anyone else wants to mark their profile, do it via the feedback. I'd say that's more appropriate. speculating whether they will make the same mistake in the future or whether there may be another case is still only speculation. the assumption is still not enough to mark someone as a fraud.

I would also keep this in mind. this case was resolved due to pressure on the forum, Trustdice team decided to try to protect and preserve the reputation here. if we were to punish them for a mistake they admitted and corrected, I don't know what will be their motive in the next case.

https://ibb.co/Dz8pTm2

how to remove flag 2 from me?  I don't know

[examplens]

https://ibb.co/Dz8pTm2

how to remove flag 2 from me?  I don't know

that flag is on the Coinbox1 profile, and you can't remove it. Currently inactive due to insufficient support (I wrote in the previous post, it was enough that I withdrew support and opposed it). You still can find it on inactive flags.



Max what you can do now is to oppose the flag by yourself and ask DT members yahoo62278, Pmalek, and holydarkness to withdraw their flag support there.

[yahoo62278]

https://ibb.co/Dz8pTm2

how to remove flag 2 from me?  I don't know

that flag is on the Coinbox1 profile, and you can't remove it. Currently inactive due to insufficient support (I wrote in the previous post, it was enough that I withdrew support and opposed it). You still can find it on inactive flags.



Max what you can do now is to oppose the flag by yourself and ask DT members yahoo62278, Pmalek, and holydarkness to withdraw their flag support there.

I removed my support for the flags but I ask @Coinbox1 do you actually acknowledge your mistakes and know what they are/were? Or are you just agreeing to let this accusation go away?

I hope you understand and can now focus on running the sportsbook correctly.

[holydarkness]

[...]
I would also keep this in mind. this case was resolved due to pressure on the forum, Trustdice team decided to try to protect and preserve the reputation here. if we were to punish them for a mistake they admitted and corrected, I don't know what will be their motive in the next case.

I liked this POV.


Depending on how Coinbox1 reacted to and the outcome of Poika5's case on the other thread, and if they replied to what yahoo62278 asked above --an explanation of what really happened-- I'll consider changing my tag to neutral to serve as a reminder.

Coinbox1, please note that by "reacted to and the outcome of" Poika5's case, I am not meaning to ask you to work it to their favor, I asked you to address the situation properly, to be transparent and give facts according to the evidences you have. If Poika5 is wrong on their case, then provide the clear evidences, and if you made mistake on that case, then explain to the community. It called being responsible and professional.

[...]
how to remove flag 2 from me?  I don't know

In addition to the fact that you've opposed the flag itself, I'll take this as a request to withdraw my support. As I said, I'll honor your decision; withdrawn.

[Pmalek]

I removed my support for the flags but I ask @Coinbox1 do you actually acknowledge your mistakes and know what they are/were? Or are you just agreeing to let this accusation go away?

I removed my support for the contract violation flag since the victim has forgiven the casino's wrongdoings.

My personal opinion is that this casino is a danger to the community. They are either incompetent and have no idea how sportsbook operations are supposed to work or they are plain and simple scammers. You can see how much drama they attempted to create around the do US sports begin with a delay or not issue. That was an attempt to deviate from the topic of them confiscating someone's money for no reason. It didn't work. My guess is they were hoping to get the community behind their back in trying to portray me, holydarkness, and Poika5 as the bad guys and them being the innocent victims. Since that didn't work, they figured it's better to return the money and salvage the reputation on the forum. Most importantly, they wanted to get rid of the flags and the warning that appeared above their ANN informing the community that the casino is suspected of being a scam.

Trustdice.win is a platform I will recommend that players stay away from.
@Poika5 any news about your case?

[Alphie12]

I'd congratulate you, Laki21000, I hope the amount won, added, and returned to you can be used for good things in your life. For your question about flags, I have to say Pmalek raised a good point, if you have forgave them, then you can withdraw your flag ¹ because, after all, half of the content of the flag is no longer accurate. I'm not sure if it's a good idea, though.

I'll be honest here, most of this post was written yesterday and I was ready to post it at that time. However, I decided to take it to my sleep and see if I got a better insight in the morning and be as objective as I can.

By the sunrise, I spare my time on the arbitrators' site to read all of the cases raised against TrustDice and found that on CasinoGuru there are 7 complains raised against them --one of them is yours. Three of it were sportsbet related and can't be solved by CG and thus we didn't know the outcome of it, although one from them moved his case to AG --see below. Two other cases I had to side with TD, they provide a strong evidence of multi-acc abuse on one case and the other one was... let's say the other party is kinda... impulsive and it's out of TD's hand, not TD's responsibility. The last two, though, solved after those user escalated this case to CG. In one of them, the CG representative even judged that TD is more-or-less abusing their rules to work in their favor.

AskGambler has 10 cases for TD --one of them is Poika5's-- 5 of them are resolved with evidences. One was marked as rejected because the accuser didn't provide KYC after the specified time, although it might worth mentioning that their case was hung without response for one month, reopened and reopened again after that, for $627, which understandably too much hassle and bothersome for some people. One was marked as unresolved because TD stopped replying the case, it's about taking bets from restricted country --I'd urge you all to read the case, it's very interesting-- two were resolved after they escalated their case to AG, where in one case TD just refunded the money without any explanation after they can't provide evidence for their counter accusation, much like Laki's case, it was sportsbetting case as well. And the other one was the one I mentioned above, the user who moved to AG after CG didn't handle sportsbetting. His funds were claimed to be frozen because of "an error".

From these cases, I think it's quite unbiased to say that although TD made several good job on gambling platform and were wronged by multi acc abuser, their sportsbet division is very poor and they are easy on throwing ban without proper evidences to back up their action --not to mention that one case where they throw their rules to justify their action-- and only lift their ban after their user raises some noise.

Thus, no matter what's the outcome of Poika5's case --whether they being wronged by TD too or they wronged TD-- I think there still a lot of non-newbie on this forum who looked for betting platform, and if your type-2 flag removed, there will be no warning for these higher-than-newbie members, there's a chance they fall into this inconvenient situation. I will stil honor your decision, though, and I'll withdraw my support for the flag if you asked me to.

While for Poika5's newbie flag, in tone with Pmalek, I think it should stay to warn anyone in the future about this issue and the possible unpleasant scenarios if they decided to sign up to TrustDice.

Regardless of what happens with the flags, my tag will stay for the same reason I based my opinion for the type-1 flag: I can't trust this site or the guys behind them.

First, the fact that they insisted on something without trying to consider the evidences or pleas made by their user. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they finally solved your problem simply because you created a huge noise which ultimately made them ended up with two active flags and several tags from DT.

Second, although I am not sure if the decision is fully made by the representative of the site, the-guy-behind-this-post, without other people from the site knowing or if their "higher ups" knows and fully supported these action, but it's proven that they love to play sneaky by editing their first reply where existing people are less likely to notice and twist words into a narrative that works to their favor for those who read just the first few posts: they're the good guy who tried to solve problem, but the case became unconstructive because some people twisted our words.

It is not a good characteristic of a trusted site. If they really honest and determined to solve issues, they'll address these concern directly and in the open, by replying to the last post --not to mention quote statements properly and correctly instead of a tailored snippets that drives a completely different meaning-- and addressed these "unconstructive people" with strong evidences.

Third, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but part of this sentence extremely disturbs me:

[...]
In addition, we notice that Mr. holydarkness, another gentleman from Croaita, is also behaving in a similar manner.
[...]

I can't see any other reason behind the unecessary extra words "from Croatia" than an attempt of implying a message, "we know where you're from, we know who you are". And this is really really worrying. Does this reflect on how they address people who has a conflict of interest with them, be it in the present or the future? A threat? I'm open for a less-paranoid suggestions on what's the meaning behind those unnecessary addition.

Oh, Coinbox1, hot news for you, you guessed wrong. You're not the first who tried to publicly doxx me and failed miserably though, IIRC somene once said I'm from India --or was it Pakistan?-- it's fun, but you're not welcome to try again.

I am very happy that you admitted your mistakes after 2 weeks of hard discussion, however give me a couple of answers to my questions, will you progress on the feedback question from the players? they won’t block again with similar extremely gross errors in the study of violations, because for example, I will also bet for my own pleasure and you decide to block me again, only on other points of your rules

I discussed with both our Customer Support and Risk Management and your account is all set back to normal right now. With that being said, for full disclosure, if your bet limit might be modified by our sports provider, which is beyond our control.

Without knowing what will happen in the future, it would be irresponsible of me to give you a guarantee that you will never be accused of another violation in the future. To this end, I strongly recommend that you carefully read our T&C and Sports Betting rules.

You obviously have ample reasons to take your money and leave, which we fully understand. But when you do it, we equally recommend you to carefully read through their T&C and other rules. Late betting bans aren't uncommon in sports books. So are arbitrage betting bans.


Best regards,
TrustDice Team

Appreciate that you did the right thing. Past posting is something that all books have to deal with. In the end, you did the right thing and I re-instated your grade.

edit- the only thing that I don't like is that you should have bitten your lip rather than give a warning. It still looks like an accusation. When a player makes a live bet, it's always close to a change, thus called "live" instead of "pregame". Put a player on a longer delay if you fear his live bets. Don't give us a warning or threat.

You're joking, right? The OP was not even late betting, they're wrongly accused.


¹can we actually delete a flag we raised? I thought there's this warning at the bottom of the flag page about "flag can not be deleted"?

I said that Trusdice shouldn't make an accusation of past posting. "the only thing that I don't like is that you should have bitten your lip rather than give a warning. It still looks like an accusation." Even in Trustdice's reply they seem to be saying that there is wrongdoing.

Trustdice doesn't make the decision on limiting players and seeing things such as past posts. The odds provider will limit players and it can get carried over to all books using that provider. That's why when you try a new book, you may get limited fast. They figure out who you are from play at another book using the same provider. I'm sure that Trustdice can override if wanted.

This means that the odds provider caused the problem? It doesn't seem that Trustdice was looking to scam.

[Laki21000]

I removed my support for the flags but I ask @Coinbox1 do you actually acknowledge your mistakes and know what they are/were? Or are you just agreeing to let this accusation go away?

I removed my support for the contract violation flag since the victim has forgiven the casino's wrongdoings.

My personal opinion is that this casino is a danger to the community. They are either incompetent and have no idea how sportsbook operations are supposed to work or they are plain and simple scammers. You can see how much drama they attempted to create around the do US sports begin with a delay or not issue. That was an attempt to deviate from the topic of them confiscating someone's money for no reason. It didn't work. My guess is they were hoping to get the community behind their back in trying to portray me, holydarkness, and Poika5 as the bad guys and them being the innocent victims. Since that didn't work, they figured it's better to return the money and salvage the reputation on the forum. Most importantly, they wanted to get rid of the flags and the warning that appeared above their ANN informing the community that the casino is suspected of being a scam.

Trustdice.win is a platform I will recommend that players stay away from.
@Poika5 any news about your case?

As I wrote earlier, I am of the opinion to leave flag 1 so that beginners see the possibilities of this casino, flag 2 does not actually correspond to its value at the moment, the money is withdrawn, if @Poika5 does not withdraw money, he will be able to create flag 2 where users decide , whether to support him or not, I will support him anyway, because the situation with my case is ambiguous, and I'm sure that they gave me the money just to save their reputation, but this is the Internet, and the Internet remembers everything) now in Google if you score "TrustDice scam" gives bitcointalk topics, but my topic was decided, but I will not change the name of the topic from "Trustdice scam" to something else so that people can read what is happening here by keywords.
---------
In any case, if you decide to advertise your bitcointalk casino among gamblers, be kind enough to accept complaints and resolve them with users. They still do not answer me by mail, it feels like they are sitting in a bunker or simply do not read their mail.

[Poika5]

@Poika5 any news about your case?

Its been 15 days, and they are trying to figure out why i got banned in the first place.

The investigation should start BEFORE you ban someone, not after.

They are either incompetent and have no idea how sportsbook operations are supposed to work or they are plain and simple scammers.

100% correct.

[Mahdirakib]

@Pmalek & @holydarkness, Both of you have left a negative feedback on TrustDice representative account with the reference of this accusation. I know that there was some dramatic situation at the initial stage, but TrustDice team had paid the user on 19th December and apologised for the inconvenience. How reasonable is it to keep negative feedback based on a solved accusation? Isn't neutral feedback enough there as a warning?

[holydarkness]

Grab your popcorn, it'll be a long story to read.

@Pmalek & @holydarkness, Both of you have left a negative feedback on TrustDice representative account with the reference of this accusation. I know that there was some dramatic situation at the initial stage, but TrustDice team had paid the user on 19th December and apologised for the inconvenience. How reasonable is it to keep negative feedback based on a solved accusation? Isn't neutral feedback enough there as a warning?

The feedback is not solely made on the case of Laki21000, it also reflected on how they addressed the situation for accusations raised against them in general, i.e. banning without trying to look for clear evidences first, or even tried to consider listening to the defense made by the accuser (the user they unilaterally banned), how they goes into grasping straws like this, or how when they're cornered, instead of trying to address the situation professionally, they choose to twist words and changing narratives through a sneaky edit like this or this --not to mention that the original unedited-but-edited post was hinting a hidden threat of "we know you"--

But, as I am quite agreed with what examplens said on paragraph two and liked the perspective I previously failed to see on the paragraph three, I was more than ready to change my tag, as stated on the quoted post below,

[...]
Depending on how Coinbox1 reacted to and the outcome of Poika5's case on the other thread, and if they replied to what yahoo62278 asked above --an explanation of what really happened-- I'll consider changing my tag to neutral to serve as a reminder.

Coinbox1, please note that by "reacted to and the outcome of" Poika5's case, I am not meaning to ask you to work it to their favor, I asked you to address the situation properly, to be transparent and give facts according to the evidences you have. If Poika5 is wrong on their case, then provide the clear evidences, and if you made mistake on that case, then explain to the community. It called being responsible and professional.

[...]

However, sadly, that outcome is not quite reached. We are still not in the clear on why Poika5 was banned on the first place. Sure, they offered evidences that AG deemed trustworthy enough, namely one of these (see the screenshot) which later rebutted by Poika5 on the whole post.

And with Poika5 went AWOL, and TD refused to answer the defense on his last post, we can only assume on several things, one is that Poika5 did multi-acc-ing, or maybe it was the "inhuman activities", and when they realized it's a lose war, they buried themselves. If this is the case, and TD has proofs, I am failed to see why they can't provide the proof of multi acc here and need to have a third party with policy of hidden evidences. If I may mention name here, Sportsbet tackled similar issue without needing to wait for so much ruckus.

If I may point out one thing that's seems amiss to me is how TD basically goes through this whole headache of blocking Poika5 when they offered KYC, twice, then insist that they need KYC to see the problem only after Poika got concerned of their privacy, then going through AG, dragging the whole situation on excruciating slowness, taking their time to verify KYC that the ticket almost closed by deadline only to come with the explanation that is far more obscure than what they've --forced-ly-- told us here on this forum weeks before it

Another possibility --and I have to admit that my imagination runs pretty wild on this one-- is that they reached an agreement off the screen with Poika5, with NDA involved, hence the sudden AWOLness.

But, for this case and specifically at this situation, I hate assumptions. I am well aware that I am sarcastic and witty and a real pain in Jesus' arse, but I am --at least I perceive myself as-- fair and reasonable. I would much prefer to lean toward facts than wild assumptions.

I can accept and would consider that the sneaky edit and word twisting is more likely an unprofessionalism of one entity --who named himself the-marketing-guy-behind-this-post-- and would probably be unfair to be held against the entire company of TD. Basically, all they need was kicking that guy and replacing him with someone more professional, and future scam accusation issues would hopefully didn't have to get through the same misery of smear campaign. I am more than happy to forget about the whole word twisting scene --with the sincerest hope that they won't attempt the same stunt next time our path crosses-- they don't even needs to apologize to me for whatever bad impression they've made on me, i understand completely that it's a risk included in the package when you choose to poking people with persistent questions and annoyed their days, every day, just to get to the bottom of the truth and giving fair justice to anyone deserves it.

This brings us back to what my statement on previous post said, I will consider changing the tag to neutral if they can give clear reason for the case of Poika5, which would convince me that they're a transparent and fair business. However, again, this is not achieved. We got to the bottom of Laki's case with them basically admitted they made a mistake and tried to grease their way out of it, and Poika's with something that's far more unclear than what previous "interrogation" gave us.

I'm more than happy to change into neutral if they replied here, or on the more appropriate place, Poika's thread, the evidences they said they've well documented on this "manner that's impossible for an ordinary human player."

Bottomline and tl;dr: In my personal opinion, it is not safe for anyone to play on such platform which would confiscate your funds and would only consider your case after so much noise was made. We don't know how many people out there in the past already got to this similar situation and didn't get a good ending because they're not persistent enough like Laki. And that, deserves a warning. Maybe not a type-2 flag, but clearly a tag.

But let me turn the table, purely in the spirit of discussion and not being aggro, why do you think it'll be good and safe to remove the negative and turn into neutral if they didn't show any good gesture or any sliver of professionalism?

[Poika5]

And with Poika5 went AWOL, and TD refused to answer the defense on his last post

No, I just didn't want to deal with this during the holidays.

I dont know how can i prove that i didnt multi account, but i will try:
1. Im from a very small country and i bet on small/specific market, I would get caught/limited really fast if i tried to multi account.
2. Multi accounting was pointless because i had other alternatives, a few hours after i got limited on Trustdice i deposited money to Thunderpick.io, a site that uses the same sportprovider.

29. September, 100% limited from TrustDice.


29. September, Thunderpick.io deposit:

By the way, its been 3 months and my Thunderpick.io account is still not limited.


I got banned for 2 reasons:

* we determine that you are acting in a manner that is detrimental to the conduct of our business;

Winning sports bettor = detrimental to Trustdice making money.

or using the late bets strategy;

As we know Trustdice thinks that every live bet is a "late bet", and I placed 4 live NBA bets, because I still had to finish my 5x rollover(I was banned from Esports betting, so I could only bet on "normal sports").



Getting scammed feels awful, so here is a little bit of mental gymnastics:
They scammed 1700$ from me, but i helped Laki21000 get his 2100$ back.
So in a way banning me cost them 400$, which makes me happy.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

I don't trust them, so the negative feedback will remain. You can see a screenshot in Poika5's thread where they mentioned they will try to investigate the reason why the player got banned and had their money confiscated. Imagine the unprofessionalism of this casino? They ban you, take your money, and stay silent hoping you won't say anything. And then if you complain and make some noise, they will start "investigating" to see what led to the ban. I have never seen anything like that. Maybe he should be put in prison and then the judicial system can investigate to see if he did anything wrong to land in prison .

Only after their so-called "investigation", they started playing the multi-accounting card and again using late betting as an excuse. Laki21000's case has shown they have no idea what late betting even is and that it can't be done the way they presented it. Take a random match from their sportsbook and watch what happens in the last minutes. All betting markets are closed.

They can play their little games with someone else, but not with me. They are a dangerous and malicious subject in the crypto gambling industry, and players should know about that.     

[Mahdirakib]

The feedback is not solely made on the case of Laki21000, it also reflected on how they addressed the situation for accusations raised against them in general ~snip~

why do you think it'll be good and safe to remove the negative and turn into neutral if they didn't show any good gesture or any sliver of professionalism?

Although I haven't made any post here while the main discussion was going on, but I was following this accusation from the initial stage. I know that TrustDice team didn't show the professionalism here to solve the problem. They only did it after getting pressure from the forum members. It has created a bad impression in the forum about TrustDice services.

@Pmalek and you have left negative feedback with the reference of this solved accusation. OP has added 'solved' in this thread title. TrustDice team behavior was obviously wrong, but negative feedback doesn't fit with a solved accusation. Neutral feedback with a proper comment will work as a warning as well.

Poika5's accusation is still unresolved. TrustDice representative hasn't provided any proof there. It would be reasonable to leave negative feedback on TrustDice representative account based on that accusation. Although Sportsbet has provided the evidence of multi accounting in your mentioned thread, but crypto casinos rarely does it in a public forum. TrustDice team should post the proof here as they have made their reputation questionable by making false claim against 'Laki21000'.

[holydarkness]

And with Poika5 went AWOL, and TD refused to answer the defense on his last post

No, I just didn't want to deal with this during the holidays.

[...]

Move this to your own thread, you're borderline OOT by presenting the evidences here, not to mention it's rather non-contributing to your own case as Coinbox1 probably didn't visit this thread anymore after 3 January --that's the last date of their edit on their first post on this thread.

The feedback is not solely made on the case of Laki21000, it also reflected on how they addressed the situation for accusations raised against them in general ~snip~

why do you think it'll be good and safe to remove the negative and turn into neutral if they didn't show any good gesture or any sliver of professionalism?

Although I haven't made any post here while the main discussion was going on, but I was following this accusation from the initial stage. I know that TrustDice team didn't show the professionalism here to solve the problem. They only did it after getting pressure from the forum members. It has created a bad impression in the forum about TrustDice services.

@Pmalek and you have left negative feedback with the reference of this solved accusation. OP has added 'solved' in this thread title. TrustDice team behavior was obviously wrong, but negative feedback doesn't fit with a solved accusation. Neutral feedback with a proper comment will work as a warning as well.

Poika5's accusation is still unresolved. TrustDice representative hasn't provided any proof there. It would be reasonable to leave negative feedback on TrustDice representative account based on that accusation. Although Sportsbet has provided the evidence of multi accounting in your mentioned thread, but crypto casinos rarely does it in a public forum. TrustDice team should post the proof here as they have made their reputation questionable by making false claim against 'Laki21000'.

So... you're suggesting me to... delete or change the trust into neutral with reference for this thread, and create a new negative one with reference to Poika5's case? Although it would be more technically correct, it seems redundant, no? It'll be better to just leave it the way it is until Poika's case got cleared then leave the feedback in reflect to the result of the case.

[Pmalek]

@Pmalek and you have left negative feedback with the reference of this solved accusation. OP has added 'solved' in this thread title. TrustDice team behavior was obviously wrong, but negative feedback doesn't fit with a solved accusation. Neutral feedback with a proper comment will work as a warning as well.

If you think about the feedback that I left (The casino locked a customer account accusing the player of doing "late betting". Not a single example of a late bet has been shown to date to warrant such an action.), it's still valid even today. They unfroze the player's betting account in the meantime, but the point is that they initially closed it for a non-valid reason trying to trick the community into believing the player was involved in late betting. And after all that time, there is still no example of a late bet.

I haven't looked at Poika5's case, but my gut feeling is there won't be ay proof there either. Since I am not familiar with that incident, it's wrong to leave ratings about it. I am sure these two incidents aren't isolated cases. Deleting one feedback only to add the exact same or a similar one mentioning a different link doesn't change anything. Changing the 1st to neutral and adding a new one does. It adds a new "point" in their overall score. Although I consider them and their PR person/manager/whatever he is a disgusting individual who secretly edits posts thinking that will get rid of the false information shared previously, I am not going to punish them with an additional feedback for something I haven't investigated in detail.     

[Mahdirakib]

~snip~

Yep, I was talking about that. You should give the reference of Poika5's topic if you want to keep your negative feedback for his issue.

~snip~

They tried to close the issue in a bad way, but they have apologized finally and said this on 19th December

We deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused and will work hard to improve our sports betting anti-abuse systems.

So, we shouldn't expect any proof of late betting activity as TrustDice team have accepted their fault and paid the user, then they apologized for it. The representative has also mentioned that they will try to improve their systems.

It's your decision whether you will keep the negative feedback or not. I just tried to highlight that 'Negative feedback' and 'solved accusation' are two opposite things.
@holydarkness & @Pmalek, thank you for the replies. I'm not going to bump this topic again with new replies as the accusation has been resolved and both of you have decided to keep the negative feedback based on it.

[Pmalek]

We deeply apologize for the inconvenience caused and will work hard to improve our sports betting anti-abuse systems.

Well, that's one of the issues. They say they want to improve and do better in the future and what do we see in the case involving Poika5? We see another unproven allegation that a player was doing late betting on TrustDice. They have also accused the person of using multiple accounts. I will probably have a look at that case soon because I am curious about the proof or lack of it. We will then be able to see if and how the casino has improved.