FIFA World Cup 2026 :Canada/Mexico/United States: Discussion Thread

[hyudien]

Can you tell me what advantage there is for a European player to go and play for a country like that and be naturalized in Indonesia? I think that if there was the possibility, everyone would do the opposite. I don't think they would want to have only Indonesian citizenship. I think that playing in Europe is already a great privilege for a few, so they would do well to stay where they are.

Actually, this goes back to the quality of the players because if they stay in Europe or meaning waiting for a call from the national team in their respective countries with the quality and competitiveness to enter there then they do not have the opportunity or even if they are called they will probably only fill the bench that's why they choose to be naturalized because there is an opportunity to be a starting line up and play against other countries such as the case done by Indonesia because it can be said that most of the naturalized players do not have the opportunity to play in the main national team.

[Ale88]

This has been all said around that the evolution of football has indeed shifted towards a more operational team orientated approach which I think this can sometimes overlap the individual brilliant, the old game did have a certain charm, with players like Ronaldinho showcasing Thier skills, well I think are really right that Brazil and Argentina have consistently produced some top notch well talented players and to me I feel it not surprising given that much passion for football in those countries, we all have a great idea that the sport has long been a way out of progress for many years in south African countries which has added a layer of depth to the players dedication and drive despite the change in the games, watching Brazil and Argentina at the world cup I s always kind of thrilling to me.

What you are calling "more operational team orientated approach" for me means one simple thing: killing the essence of the game. You mention Ronaldinho, if today Ronaldinho was a 12-year-old boy his manager would probably tell him to stop doing tricks, to quickly pass the ball, and to put on some muscles. They don't want talent, they want soldiers, they want players who do what they are told to. For me football is losing a lot of magic and the fact that even Brazilian players are losing this magic says a lot. Athletically now football players are all insane, technically is a disaster, the level significantly dropped.

Im still surprised on how we dont see yet at least one good player from the whole south asia and even including India we still didnt see any good player for there, im not expecting a whole national team making good steps towards becoming a contender to be in the next world cup, but at least to see 1 between so many millions reaching europe.

How can they be this bad?

I guess it's mainly because football is not the main sport. Sometimes we see things from a European/South American point of view, where there is football, more football, and more football again, and then some other sport. I don't know a lot about sports in India but I guess that cricket is way more popular than football; same goes with China where they focus more on individual sports rather than teams. Japan for example have been investing a lot of time and money promoting football because until 20-30 years ago it was not very popular and I think that still nowadays baseball is more popular than football.

Improving a national team requires decades of work because you have to create and grow a few generations of players, it's not something that you can do in a few years, it requires a huge amount of organization and planning.

Sorry for answer this late.

I know this is the main answer they give about this, they said is not his first sport, and is ok, but if we look into it you see they hace so  much population so even being the third sport they have to produce something and that is not happening at all.

For example in Spain basquet is not their main sports but they keep making good players, and you can pick any sport in any country and see it.

I don't think it's possible to compare countries like Spain and many of the Asian countries, Spain have way more resources to invest than the average Asian country.

[Mate2237]

This has been all said around that the evolution of football has indeed shifted towards a more operational team orientated approach which I think this can sometimes overlap the individual brilliant, the old game did have a certain charm, with players like Ronaldinho showcasing Thier skills, well I think are really right that Brazil and Argentina have consistently produced some top notch well talented players and to me I feel it not surprising given that much passion for football in those countries, we all have a great idea that the sport has long been a way out of progress for many years in south African countries which has added a layer of depth to the players dedication and drive despite the change in the games, watching Brazil and Argentina at the world cup I s always kind of thrilling to me.

What you are calling "more operational team orientated approach" for me means one simple thing: killing the essence of the game. You mention Ronaldinho, if today Ronaldinho was a 12-year-old boy his manager would probably tell him to stop doing tricks, to quickly pass the ball, and to put on some muscles. They don't want talent, they want soldiers, they want players who do what they are told to. For me football is losing a lot of magic and the fact that even Brazilian players are losing this magic says a lot. Athletically now football players are all insane, technically is a disaster, the level significantly dropped.

Im still surprised on how we dont see yet at least one good player from the whole south asia and even including India we still didnt see any good player for there, im not expecting a whole national team making good steps towards becoming a contender to be in the next world cup, but at least to see 1 between so many millions reaching europe.

How can they be this bad?

I guess it's mainly because football is not the main sport. Sometimes we see things from a European/South American point of view, where there is football, more football, and more football again, and then some other sport. I don't know a lot about sports in India but I guess that cricket is way more popular than football; same goes with China where they focus more on individual sports rather than teams. Japan for example have been investing a lot of time and money promoting football because until 20-30 years ago it was not very popular and I think that still nowadays baseball is more popular than football.

Improving a national team requires decades of work because you have to create and grow a few generations of players, it's not something that you can do in a few years, it requires a huge amount of organization and planning.

Sorry for answer this late.

I know this is the main answer they give about this, they said is not his first sport, and is ok, but if we look into it you see they hace so  much population so even being the third sport they have to produce something and that is not happening at all.

For example in Spain basquet is not their main sports but they keep making good players, and you can pick any sport in any country and see it.

I don't think it's possible to compare countries like Spain and many of the Asian countries, Spain have way more resources to invest than the average Asian country.

No I don't think so because when you talk about football it depends on the country's priority if they are interested in investing in football or not there are lot of poor countries even in Europe that are doing well in sports because they have given priority to sports.




Not all countries in Asia is poor what you will say is that they have not invested well in sport that is why football in Asia is not as developed as that of European countries and off recent I think that Asian countries like China has made significant improvements in terms of investment in sport using football as an example

[Mame89]

Can you tell me what advantage there is for a European player to go and play for a country like that and be naturalized in Indonesia? I think that if there was the possibility, everyone would do the opposite. I don't think they would want to have only Indonesian citizenship. I think that playing in Europe is already a great privilege for a few, so they would do well to stay where they are.

Actually, this goes back to the quality of the players because if they stay in Europe or meaning waiting for a call from the national team in their respective countries with the quality and competitiveness to enter there then they do not have the opportunity or even if they are called they will probably only fill the bench that's why they choose to be naturalized because there is an opportunity to be a starting line up and play against other countries such as the case done by Indonesia because it can be said that most of the naturalized players do not have the opportunity to play in the main national team.

I agree with you. Perhaps this is why these players want to be naturalized to become Indonesian players. They realize that their quality makes it difficult to compete or be called up to their home national teams, so they use other countries to gain access to the national team through naturalization. Or perhaps they believe in Indonesia's vision for football's future careers and potential for development.

I'm Indonesian, but what I see most clearly is that naturalized players here are "celebrated" as athletes. This is something they may not experience in their home countries, as you said, because there they struggle to compete.

Furthermore, naturalized players in Indonesia easily become famous, have a loyal following, and receive many gifts and presents. Furthermore, their social media following skyrockets, and support floods in. This is what I see in the phenomenon of naturalized players in Indonesia. I prefer Malaysia's strictness in setting requirements for players seeking naturalization.

[Ale88]

No I don't think so because when you talk about football it depends on the country's priority if they are interested in investing in football or not there are lot of poor countries even in Europe that are doing well in sports because they have given priority to sports.

Not all countries in Asia is poor what you will say is that they have not invested well in sport that is why football in Asia is not as developed as that of European countries and off recent I think that Asian countries like China has made significant improvements in terms of investment in sport using football as an example

Could you please mention all these "significant improvements" in China? The last time they qualified for a World Cup was back in 2002, during the qualification stage they struggle even against weaker teams, the only decent player who played in Europe during the last years was Wu Lei, that's it. I'm sorry but I really don't see where these significant improvements are, could you please point them out for me?

And don't tell me that 10 years ago many players moved from Europe to China because that didn't help the league at all, especially considering how many teams went bankrupt.

[uneng]

No I don't think so because when you talk about football it depends on the country's priority if they are interested in investing in football or not there are lot of poor countries even in Europe that are doing well in sports because they have given priority to sports.

I agree with you. Latin american countries are poor and still manage to deliver skilled soccer players to their national teams and clubs around the world, including the european ones. It means soccer is a priority for citizens from those countries since a very early age. They play soccer in a daily basis on the streets and at the schools.

Gym discipline, for an example, summarizes 100% in soccer matches at many elementary and high schools in Brazil. At same time, you have wealthy asian countries like Japan, which despite its efforts, has never achieved a remarkable global soccer title.

[Ale88]

No I don't think so because when you talk about football it depends on the country's priority if they are interested in investing in football or not there are lot of poor countries even in Europe that are doing well in sports because they have given priority to sports.

I agree with you. Latin american countries are poor and still manage to deliver skilled soccer players to their national teams and clubs around the world, including the european ones. It means soccer is a priority for citizens from those countries since a very early age. They play soccer in a daily basis on the streets and at the schools.

Gym discipline, for an example, summarizes 100% in soccer matches at many elementary and high schools in Brazil. At same time, you have wealthy asian countries like Japan, which despite its efforts, has never achieved a remarkable global soccer title.

I'm sorry but I'm totally lost: in the last 2 posts I read that China have made significant improvements and Japan, despite their efforts, never achieved anything? China never achieved anything in football; Japan since they hosted the World Cup in 2002 kept improving and improving, now many teams in Europe have Japanese players when 20 years ago almost everyone was playing in Japan with a few exceptions like Nakata, Ono, and Inamoto. Japan also won the Asian Cup 4 times and constantly qualified for the World Cup so the progress they mad in the last 20+ years is quite notable. So, again, I don't understand what you guys are saying.

[Sithara007]

I'm sorry but I'm totally lost: in the last 2 posts I read that China have made significant improvements and Japan, despite their efforts, never achieved anything? China never achieved anything in football; Japan since they hosted the World Cup in 2002 kept improving and improving, now many teams in Europe have Japanese players when 20 years ago almost everyone was playing in Japan with a few exceptions like Nakata, Ono, and Inamoto. Japan also won the Asian Cup 4 times and constantly qualified for the World Cup so the progress they mad in the last 20+ years is quite notable. So, again, I don't understand what you guys are saying.

LOL.. comparing China with Japan. The latter has been perhaps the strongest football team from AFC for the last few decades. IMO, they are better than South Korea, Iran, Australia and Saudi Arabia. But the only drawback is now the demographics. Unlike the case with Saudi Arabia or Uzbekistan, Japan doesn't have a very young population. And this means that the player pool is shrinking. That said, despite having such a huge population, what has China achieved so far?

[Jatiluhung]

Can you tell me what advantage there is for a European player to go and play for a country like that and be naturalized in Indonesia? I think that if there was the possibility, everyone would do the opposite. I don't think they would want to have only Indonesian citizenship. I think that playing in Europe is already a great privilege for a few, so they would do well to stay where they are.

Actually, this goes back to the quality of the players because if they stay in Europe or meaning waiting for a call from the national team in their respective countries with the quality and competitiveness to enter there then they do not have the opportunity or even if they are called they will probably only fill the bench that's why they choose to be naturalized because there is an opportunity to be a starting line up and play against other countries such as the case done by Indonesia because it can be said that most of the naturalized players do not have the opportunity to play in the main national team.

One reason may be that they feel they have no chance of making it into their home country's national team. However, I am quite sure that naturalized players are also offered attractive deals that make them interested in joining, whether financially or in other ways. Another reason I think makes the most sense is that naturalized players essentially have dual citizenship. Therefore, they may choose to become naturalized players out of love for the country they ultimately choose.

And many people don't know about Indonesia. When soccer players become famous here, they automatically become like famous artists with incomes that may even exceed their soccer earnings. Even one of the foreign coaches who trains the Indonesian national team has experienced this advantage. Becoming popular in this country can really be a lucrative source of income. 

[cande86]

Can you tell me what advantage there is for a European player to go and play for a country like that and be naturalized in Indonesia? I think that if there was the possibility, everyone would do the opposite. I don't think they would want to have only Indonesian citizenship. I think that playing in Europe is already a great privilege for a few, so they would do well to stay where they are.

Actually, this goes back to the quality of the players because if they stay in Europe or meaning waiting for a call from the national team in their respective countries with the quality and competitiveness to enter there then they do not have the opportunity or even if they are called they will probably only fill the bench that's why they choose to be naturalized because there is an opportunity to be a starting line up and play against other countries such as the case done by Indonesia because it can be said that most of the naturalized players do not have the opportunity to play in the main national team.

One reason may be that they feel they have no chance of making it into their home country's national team. However, I am quite sure that naturalized players are also offered attractive deals that make them interested in joining, whether financially or in other ways. Another reason I think makes the most sense is that naturalized players essentially have dual citizenship. Therefore, they may choose to become naturalized players out of love for the country they ultimately choose.

And many people don't know about Indonesia. When soccer players become famous here, they automatically become like famous artists with incomes that may even exceed their soccer earnings. Even one of the foreign coaches who trains the Indonesian national team has experienced this advantage. Becoming popular in this country can really be a lucrative source of income. 

As a European, I have never heard of an Indonesian footballer who is strong enough to play in important competitions like the European ones, and there are many even in the lower leagues. Here, football is something else, it is always played everywhere and there are strong players in every corner. They shouldn't naturalise people at random, but rather take them from their country of origin, and it will be a better world.

[8rch7]

LOL.. comparing China with Japan. The latter has been perhaps the strongest football team from AFC for the last few decades. IMO, they are better than South Korea, Iran, Australia and Saudi Arabia. But the only drawback is now the demographics. Unlike the case with Saudi Arabia or Uzbekistan, Japan doesn't have a very young population. And this means that the player pool is shrinking. That said, despite having such a huge population, what has China achieved so far?

China not significant improvement yet although last four or five season ago many top players play with Chinese Super League team, have been longer time the Chinese club not performed at AFC Champion League but Japan club always dominance.
Not important yet about how many population of  China but can't have top talent player exactly in football, difference with Japan easily every season their player aboard to top European club.

Interested for upcoming FIFA Club World Cup event have any team from Asian can qualify to higher round or reach to semifinal round, in this time event only Al Hilal can qualify to quarter final.

[Ale88]

China not significant improvement yet although last four or five season ago many top players play with Chinese Super League team

I'm sorry but what you are saying has nothing to do with the national team: in the past foreign players chose to play in the Chinese Super League because they were offering a ton of money, ok, we know, and what difference did it make for Chinese football? None. Chinese players were bad back then, they were bad when foreigners were playing, and they are still bad after the foreigners left. Focusing only on bringing in foreigners is totally useless if you try to improve your local players. Foreigners won't play for your national team (with a few exceptions, like Elkeson / Ai Kesen). Japan never paid a ton of money for foreign players and yet we can clearly see that their model works, China's doesn't.

[hyudien]

As a European, I have never heard of an Indonesian footballer who is strong enough to play in important competitions like the European ones, and there are many even in the lower leagues. Here, football is something else, it is always played everywhere and there are strong players in every corner. They shouldn't naturalise people at random, but rather take them from their country of origin, and it will be a better world.

You have a view that I must say is valid considering Indonesia population of nearly 286 million so finding high quality local players to strengthen the national team shouldn't be difficult however as a native, I must be honest the development of football infrastructure here is uneven and early childhood development is unstructured for one definite reason: the continued corruption of many politicians, I'm ashamed, but this is the reality, which is why they are do naturalization.

[LUCKMCFLY]

Of course the majority of these players will go with the stronger team but there is a small change in this trend.

Yes, it is a fact that things are like that, the tendency now is for the feeling that the players have, the team that they like the most is the team for which they stay, the same has happened with players for example an Italian, he decided to play for Venezuela and not for Italy, although Italy is a very strong team he chose Venezuela.

You have a view that I must say is valid considering Indonesia population of nearly 286 million so finding high quality local players to strengthen the national team shouldn't be difficult however as a native, I must be honest the development of football infrastructure here is uneven and early childhood development is unstructured for one definite reason: the continued corruption of many politicians, I'm ashamed, but this is the reality, which is why they are do naturalization.

These problems always exist, I think the solution is to put them in clubs from a young age where their talents are seen , In Brazil there are so many People that the most outstanding players come from very poor Places I think that for things to improve , they have to hire a coach like Luis Enrique who can propose a good project for the development of Football.

[Volgastallion]

Well seems like i miss a few hours in this conversation and a lot was spoke.

All i read were excuses, resources? Come on fooball was never attached to resources, the most poverty countries in the world alsod evelop a good level in football Africa being super poor do a lot more than asians. And in the past even South American ones were they were super poor and without all the actuals federations.

[Ale88]

Of course the majority of these players will go with the stronger team but there is a small change in this trend.

Yes, it is a fact that things are like that, the tendency now is for the feeling that the players have, the team that they like the most is the team for which they stay, the same has happened with players for example an Italian, he decided to play for Venezuela and not for Italy, although Italy is a very strong team he chose Venezuela.

By any chance are you talking about Massimo Margiotta?  Because if that's the case I'll just leave this here:


Let's say that Margiotta chose to play for the Venezuelan national team when Italy had a very strong team, I was a good player but nowhere near to the other players, he had literally 0 chances to be called up. In most recent times there was Lapadula who chose to play for Peru (I think his mom is Peruvian) and even Daniel Maldini, son of the legendary Paolo, considered playing for Venezuela.

[Gost ms]

No I don't think so because when you talk about football it depends on the country's priority if they are interested in investing in football or not there are lot of poor countries even in Europe that are doing well in sports because they have given priority to sports.


Not all countries in Asia is poor what you will say is that they have not invested well in sport that is why football in Asia is not as developed as that of European countries and off recent I think that Asian countries like China has made significant improvements in terms of investment in sport using football as an example

Almost all countries give priority to sports. But there are some countries whose economic condition is bad, they cannot spend the same amount of money on sports as all the other countries. If there is corruption in the management of a country, then that country will never be able to do anything good in sports. Because whenever a good player gets a chance in the national team, he will be called up from the team due to many problems. An incompetent person will be called up in his place. If corruption can be removed from the middle of the game, then maybe every country will play very well.

[Sithara007]

Almost all countries give priority to sports. But there are some countries whose economic condition is bad, they cannot spend the same amount of money on sports as all the other countries. If there is corruption in the management of a country, then that country will never be able to do anything good in sports. Because whenever a good player gets a chance in the national team, he will be called up from the team due to many problems. An incompetent person will be called up in his place. If corruption can be removed from the middle of the game, then maybe every country will play very well.

That's the reason why we have independent sports bodies such as the FIFA. Whenever such an issue is noticed, FIFA immediately suspends the national football association, and ask them to mend their ways before re-admitting them. But then we can't always say that there is no bias within FIFA. For example, an African association with limited funds and influence will be much more likely to get banned when compared to a rucb Arab nation, or a football association from any of the European countries.

[joniboini]

An incompetent person will be called up in his place. If corruption can be removed from the middle of the game, then maybe every country will play very well.

Sadly, that's easier said than done. Removing corruption from a small political circle (like a village or something similar) is hard enough; the government needs to intervene, and they need to have integrity to solve that (which is so rare to begin with). But let's say we live in a simulation and everyone has a fair chance to compete, I'm sure we'll see a trend where a country is significantly stronger due to talent, infrastructure, etc. Basically the rich ones will have better chance to win a competition. CMIIW.

[dezoel]

I'm sorry but what you are saying has nothing to do with the national team: in the past foreign players chose to play in the Chinese Super League because they were offering a ton of money, ok, we know, and what difference did it make for Chinese football? None. Chinese players were bad back then, they were bad when foreigners were playing, and they are still bad after the foreigners left. Focusing only on bringing in foreigners is totally useless if you try to improve your local players. Foreigners won't play for your national team (with a few exceptions, like Elkeson / Ai Kesen). Japan never paid a ton of money for foreign players and yet we can clearly see that their model works, China's doesn't.

Chinese soccer needs significant changes into their system if they want improvement in soccer which is not easy even possible their big game with Super League almost fail which is big setback for them but still they are capable of having good structure and improvement.

Japan and Korea done good work which is paying good results, and they are consistent at Asian level with always having spots into FIFA World Cup but sadly not other country is capable of having same level consistency and performance in this region. Currently, Saudi Arab doing with their money which is also possible for China, but they needed to work out on their grass-root level which is always helpful for countries having academies and bringing youths into players pool always bring positive results, but miserably China fails in this for long time.