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[Harkorede]

Though, I think that we had similar case when of tennis players or Ronnie O'Sullivan pulled out from tournament before deadline and question wasn't voided. Offcourse, I may be wrong.
Anyway, not blaming Cro2, there is just so many aspect to consider when they make questions.

Yes, that was the one!

And I was on the wrong side of it because I didn't see and apparently someone even posted the news on this thread, but it was not voided. I don't even remember whether or not I lost the round or not because of the question or not, I really don't care about that. I really just want a one house, one accord stuff as usual here, not having people pointing one finger out with 4 circling back and all that, it's a great job folks are doing here and if we start having people throwing double standards accusations, we won't be here for longer than we have been.

[1715168794]

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[Chi20]

Now bullrun2020bro has not shown up, he no longer has a chance to remain in the 2nd division, and if he does not show up, the last round will be 2-3 points for some who tied or lost against him and that will again modify the table.

Chill dude. I was busy all day and just submitted my picks.

I won't dodge the last round either; I am just busy, and of course, a betting game in which I have no chance to rank up anymore isn't my main life priority right now.

That's still no reason to accuse me of not playing fair.

Bro there was a enough time to submit regardless!

[darxiaomi]

~snip
hahaha tahnks man, i apreciate your support, i hope to do the best i can, but we have a very hard team in front who is fighting for the championship, and also has declared against us.....

don't take it too harsh, I said it is almost impossible to support all relegation fighters, so picked favorite one
doesn't mean that I wanted any to relegate (maybe 4 to relegate is a bit too much on 16 teams, could be re-thinked for next season Cro2)

nevertheless, several different questions in our series (South Korea was the same one), Atletico on 3/2 goals, Bayern to win or draw, Premier league on 0-1/3 points, Nigeria/Ivory Coast final decision, if they both reach final, and last question we had all five different answers (first time that I have all five different answer, complete contrary opinion)

let's make firework in Belgrade, as the one that will be on Partizan-Bayern Euroleague basketball game on Thursday, and may the best win it in the end

Hahaha man was a joke, it was just to spice up a little the tournament i know is hard to pick one to support, everyone is just well here and is sad to see anyone dropping a division.

Yes and in all the question i have my doubts and more likely to choose the answers you choose, for example the game between Bayern and Leverkusen is high probabilities to end on a draw, and also in the Premier League point question, is very difficult to choose, the 0-1 maybe gives a stadistical advantage but its not quite a super advantage.

[notblox1]

Yet again 2 players didn't submit from Division 2, and guess who one of them is playing against? Trofo of course.  I think at this junction an investigation should be carried out on trofo for paying players off against him. And I will be leading the investigation.  Who's with me?

Edit: trofo has now gotten 12 free points this season.  This should go into record that a certain person got 12 free points in a single season.

Yes, call Gianni Infantino urgently!
I think Snake is not paying money to anyone for doing this, he is just breaking their legs if they dont skip to play against him 
If I was in his place I would not like to become a champion or get promoted in this way, it is like in the old days of Seria A.
It really sucks that Korea question is not counting so I am suggesting for Cro2 team both to get punished with -3 points for making this mistake 

Say no to Cro2 free points!

No!
And give them negative points. 

Bro there was a enough time to submit regardless!

Brooo Chill down, you are spreading nervous energy to my players.
Dont worry so much about illegal activities.


 

[Chi20]

Bro there was a enough time to submit regardless!

Brooo Chill down, you are spreading nervous energy to my players.
Dont worry so much about illegal activities.


 

hahahahahaha, spreading  nervous energy 😅 I really want your players to feel the heat 😅  here by making them unbalanced to their opponent.

[Renato297]

Now bullrun2020bro has not shown up, he no longer has a chance to remain in the 2nd division, and if he does not show up, the last round will be 2-3 points for some who tied or lost against him and that will again modify the table.

It's unfortunate, in my case I have had two faults, one with kanapa that is no longer there, and another with bullrun2020 that is eventually at least in div 3.
So I have literally "screwed" myself with 8 possible points, (bad roads.    )

But without a doubt, this will "screw up" some in their aspirations, as corresponds  to classification, relegation, ITM, etc.


Ah! Renato297, I forgot, good luck to you, we both need to win, yeah,  a draw is of no use to us given the configuration of results that are going to occur, even some with the three points secured.

I had easy points against Kanapka but that also altered the table at the bottom after the modification of some players' points.

I would have been with 1 point in favor today if it weren't for my last minute change believing that Watford could tie, now we have 6 different answers, may the best one win gl

[Harkorede]

Great way to kick off the week, thank you Saints 

A team to win and both team to score never just tend to seat right with me regardless the team or opponent 

[cryptofrka]

Though, I think that we had similar case when of tennis players or Ronnie O'Sullivan pulled out from tournament before deadline and question wasn't voided. Offcourse, I may be wrong.
Anyway, not blaming Cro2, there is just so many aspect to consider when they make questions.

Yes, that was the one!

And I was on the wrong side of it because I didn't see and apparently someone even posted the news on this thread, but it was not voided. I don't even remember whether or not I lost the round or not because of the question or not, I really don't care about that. I really just want a one house, one accord stuff as usual here, not having people pointing one finger out with 4 circling back and all that, it's a great job folks are doing here and if we start having people throwing double standards accusations, we won't be here for longer than we have been.

Nope fellas, that was Q7 of Season 3's Round 5 and was voided. You can check it in the spreadsheet.

This makes the most sense to me then, of course I'd agree that it doesn't happen often.

However, I understand how hell a of tough job CRO2 is doing, and I don't undermine that, but possibly if we can eliminate this kind of scenarios all together would be better going forward ? Scenarios where the first game doesn't get started or have half of it settled before the deadline, because I'm there are a lot of cases when the first question is a H2H question and then there is about 1-2 question settled of a possible 4 or 5, it still put us in a situation of having a few with an unfair advantage especially if they can make the most of it and their time zones still permit them to submit just in time before the deadline.

Yeah, we usually really try to do that. With some sports and/or events it is unfortunately impossible - so we took a risk to include Asian games.
The odds of Korea going through to the final were like 1.30 or something like that, and this time it went against us.

The time for the match was already set when the questions came, so this scenario should have been known by everyone who did the job of checking the match.

This was a chance Cro2 took even though they knew this could happen, but with only 2 rounds left, all the questions are very important that we can't have questions that become void (although there is always a chance of that) but this question should have remained.

I first took South Korea to score 4 goals or more, then I changed it to 3 goals or less then finally I changed it to NO and sent in my answer😂

Yep, it is shitty that this happened so late in the season where every point counts. We voided such questions before, so there was only 1 road to take.
We'll put it in the rules for next season and try to make bulletproof questions - but then again sometimes it just isn't possible.

[Slissy]

I had faith in Watford today therefore did i take Watford not to lose.. My opponent had Southampton to win and both teams to score. I was lucky there! Well done to all of you who took Southampton to win and NO on both teams to score 😁

[Harkorede]

Though, I think that we had similar case when of tennis players or Ronnie O'Sullivan pulled out from tournament before deadline and question wasn't voided. Offcourse, I may be wrong.
Anyway, not blaming Cro2, there is just so many aspect to consider when they make questions.

Yes, that was the one!

And I was on the wrong side of it because I didn't see and apparently someone even posted the news on this thread, but it was not voided. I don't even remember whether or not I lost the round or not because of the question or not, I really don't care about that. I really just want a one house, one accord stuff as usual here, not having people pointing one finger out with 4 circling back and all that, it's a great job folks are doing here and if we start having people throwing double standards accusations, we won't be here for longer than we have been.

Nope fellas, that was Q7 of Season 3's Round 5 and was voided. You can check it in the spreadsheet.

Nope mate, that wasn't the one, I just had to do a little digging, I'm very glad for how documented this competition has been, kudos! The round in question was from Season 2, Round 4, question No 8. It was a Tennis question between Di Minaur and Cerundolo, but apparently Di Minaur withdrew from tournament way (day) before the deadline and there was a new tournament bracket for that event that didn't include him, If he was included in the tournament his first opponent would have been the one with a free pass not someone who wasn't meant to be in the tournament, and someone shared the news on the thread here before the deadline, some of us missed it, some didn't. The question counted, and I understood your decision then, but the situation is a complete reversal today because "There was a definitive answer before the deadline then" and the decision tends to be different, but then again I understand that these are different sports and seasons while certain adjustments to the rules have also been changed, and making these calls isn't any easier or fair for you both too and I TOTALLY GET IT.

PS: I played against slackovic it ended as a draw, a round I would have won, if the questions had been voided here is a link to SS https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hev3jtlSdBrdaCEKEaTqHE0sEJdVJCJi-Lav4xjqnI0/edit#gid=318901047

1.

I really don't know if it's booby trap from Cro2 team, but if that's he case I would rather we don't have this kind of questions that are inconclusively, If when I did my research and it was stated that Alex De Minaur would not be participating, I will get it that they just want everyone to do their due diligence, but I don't know if in Tennis a player can join just along the way without starting the from the first round, just like it's not every one that would participate in Wimbledon have play through the qualifiers.

So If Alex De Minaur isn't going to participate in Eastbourne, then it's an invalid question, at least that's my opinion.

I don't think that it's a booby trap question from the Cro2 team. De Minaur was probably scheduled to participate at the tournament while they were writing the questions. That's precisely the reason why I always wait for Tuesday to give my answers because with tennis you never know. I don't think that it should be invalid question because everyone had time to wait and see that he withdrew from the tournament. It's similar as if he was injured and had to withdraw.

2.

Tennis question, I have an edge now because it seems my opponent leea answered very early and I can't blame him, I still saw Alex de Minaur news as if he was joining the tournament when I looked.

It's an advantage for me but I kind of agree with Harkorede, on these kinds of questions... are we trying to encourage everyone to submit answers late? Because I'm sure if the early guys who submitted early could see the news easily, they wouldn't answer Alex. I only knew because I read this thread In sportsbetting, the bet is lost if the guy actually played and retired, but if he didn't even play, bet is void, right?

We hate when stuff like this happens but we do have a rule in the OP that says tennis result count as regular even when forfeit happens. On bookies it would be voided if you had De Minaur outright but we have duel and if Cerundalo wins today it is clear he came further in the tournament.

Question is purposly worded in a way that forfeit doesn't affect it. We do have another problem if Cerundalo looses today. This is second round of tournamnet and De Minaur should have started it this round as well but withdrew from the tournament. Is that a same answer then or Cerundalo wins just by showing on pitch? We will think about it and give a definite ruling here in thread before the match starts.

Edit: his name was in the draw. I choose him and cerundalo as duel because they were 3rd and 4th seeds. He was free in first round as seed and then withdrew before first round finished.

[casperBGD]

-snip
The round in question was from Season 2, Round 4, question No 8. It was a Tennis question between Di Minaur and Cerundolo, but apparently Di Minaur withdrew from tournament way (day) before the deadline and there was a new tournament bracket for that event that didn't include him, If he was included in the tournament his first opponent would have been the one with a free pass not someone who wasn't meant to be in the tournament, and someone shared the news on the thread here before the deadline, some of us missed it, some didn't. The question counted, and I understood your decision then, but the situation is a complete reversal today because "There was a definitive answer before the deadline then" and the decision tends to be different, but then again I understand that these are different sports and seasons while certain adjustments to the rules have also been changed, and making these calls isn't any easier or fair for you both too and I TOTALLY GET IT.

important difference here is that De Minaur withdrawal still let two different answers available, draw and Cerundolo, and odds were pretty much the same, since Cerundolo was on cca 1.8 to win first round
it would be similar to Korea winning 4:0, but not to this outcome

but overall, not that I agree with decision, but I am taking Cro2 rule as it is, sometimes suits you, sometimes not, but mostly fair to all, and they are trying their best, it is not easy to manage it

[slackovic]

I had faith in Watford today therefore did i take Watford not to lose.. My opponent had Southampton to win and both teams to score. I was lucky there! Well done to all of you who took Southampton to win and NO on both teams to score 😁

Yeah, the first question obviously didn't go as majority planned. Both me and LTU_btc went with Southampton to win, but also both teams to score so both of us missed this point.

LTU_btc as for our duel, we have only three different answers (Real, Bayern/Leverkusen and Superbowl). Getting the first point could prove to be quite the advantage.

[slaman29]

Fully support decision About Question 6, even tho personally I feel a little bit meh. I want to always win points fairly, if I win or lose, I must know it's my own effort and so I will always give in to max fairness to my opponent.

However let me rant a little here lol

The forum deadline has always always been unfair to me for 3 seasons. In fact the VAR came out because of the unfairness to those who submit early in case to miss deadline, but IIRC also because of the timezone (forum deadline is 1 am for me).

This season less issues because I noticed very few questions came close to deadline but past 2 seasons, many questions like for tennis had the deadlines close to the game, but if anyone could not stay up late because they have a life lol then too bad, the question would not be balanced for fairness.

I accepted the rules before, never ever got mad, but you guys understand my mehness now I'm fighting for relegation and suddenly it doesn't pay to use VAR and stay up late for this stupid question, yes of course I feel a little bit pissed lol

Harkorede gave a good example for tennis. And What if South Korea won and scored 3 goals? The question wouldn't be void, but clearly disadvantage to someone who entered 3 goals or less. I would have used VAR to change my answer if I was able.

So I don't really get this. Maybe, I would now recommend to rule out any possible questions that settle within 5 hours of deadline. If truely we care about people with timezone difference, this is the most fair.

Edit: Just for the record I answered no, even before the game finished but I have seen stats of the first half before doing it so feel a bit robbed on this one personally.

Same! I waited for this one at before going home however if I knew it would be voided if South Korea lost, I wouldn't have bothered. So I feel a bit robbed on my time out when I coulda just slept lol

[cryptofrka]

...

You really did investigate this thoroughly

As casperBGD said, this question was really unlucky as well but we allowed it because there were still 2 available outcomes, not just one like in this case.

So I don't really get this. Maybe, I would now recommend to rule out any possible questions that settle within 5 hours of deadline. If truely we care about people with timezone difference, this is the most fair.

Not really applicable - it is quite hard to put questions on Sunday for Tuesday. If we were to have another 5h buffer, we wouldn't be able to have a lot of questions (example Tuesday's Champions League).

The solution is simple - in the future we will just explain in advance in which situations the questions are void and in which they will be graded.

I understand a lot of you are upset, but you are kinda looking at it from a skewed perspective. A lot of people used VAR anyway, so the 'point advantage' you see when you look at the spreadsheet now would probably not be there anyway.

Bottom line - stuff like this only makes us better, so we'll find a way for things to work and be even more transparent without ruining the experience. Trust in the process

[Chi20]

However let me rant a little here lol

The forum deadline has always always been unfair to me for 3 seasons. In fact the VAR came out because of the unfairness to those who submit early in case to miss deadline, but IIRC also because of the timezone (forum deadline is 1 am for me).

I'm one of the many the forum deadline doesn't favour at all.  (Forum deadline is 2 AM here) like I literally have to calculate the forum deadline truesday as my Wednesday. Like  I'm typing now , it is already 8:54 pm here. But then , it is what it is.  Unto the next game.

Again cryptofrka,  I don't see how I'm the 2nd most beneficiary of free points.  Most people in division 2 got 6 free points,  like 3 -4 persons if I'm not being wrong. I don't know how you counted Kanapka match as free point to me  when I literally won that due 6-3,. Matter of fact,  that game put me on goals disadvantage because 3 goals was deducted from me because Kanapka disqualification.

[buwaytress]

Poor Cro2, you can't win however you go -- though I daresay there would have been fewer complaints if you graded it anyway. I did expect a lot of feedback on this, and VAR was, like Harkorede said, brought in precisely to ease the disadvantage of those submitting answers early -- but who could still give themselves a fighting chance if results go unexpectedly leading up to deadline.

I definitely feel for guys like Chi20 and slaman29. I was in last season in your timezone for 5/6 weeks, and will be again this year. I had to stay up to ensure I didn't disadvantage myself and it's not so easy if you have a wife and kids, to tell them you're on computer past midnight and it's not even for work haha. Price to pay, but we all love our sports, don't we?

Whatever it is, I remind everyone that Cro2 has the overall welfare of BSFL in mind, this is for the better. Trust in the process. Every season gets better, more gaps are filled. And I love that this thread generates the normal ranting you expect from sports haha. Believe me, I feel for some of you, I know I speak with midtable comfort and little to fight for.

With that, I will personally message all players at risk of being banned from BSFL next round. I simply think it would be a huge loss if the likes of bullrunbro and Saint-loup are missing from BSFL.

P.S. Anyone wants to watch entertaining football should see AFC cup semis. No one is playing to get to penalties. It's a damned shame this forum doesn't have enough people interested in that competition.

[arallmuus]

Discussions are going pretty intense here. Alright guys, I know that most of us are on our nerves especially when we are getting to the last 2 rounds to determine the winner and relegations but everyone should chill for now. The reaction on the voided question wont be this intense if we are on the first 3 rounds of the season

Pretty sure that we are all aware that there isnt any perfect rules to accomodate what everyone wants though but so far we could all agree that cro2 team has been very good in managing BSFL for these 3 seasons. 2 person making questions and setting up everything, thats a rough job and they are not getting any advantage from it because they are also normal players participating every rounds.

[Trofo]

With that, I will personally message all players at risk of being banned from BSFL next round. I simply think it would be a huge loss if the likes of bullrunbro and Saint-loup are missing from BSFL.

We can't stop you from doing that nor we intend to but just for the record. If we did that I am sure someone would complain why we are doing it now and not before  
Tagging players when questions are live should be more than enough for serious participants.

By all means do what you intend, really don't want to go trough all the rounds once more so close to the deadline.

P.S. Anyone wants to watch entertaining football should see AFC cup semis. No one is playing to get to penalties. It's a damned shame this forum doesn't have enough people interested in that competition.

Not just forum. Sites like Superbru don't support it as well. That makes you think a bit, when you all the shit league they have competitions for.

[cryptofrka]

You guys really stay up past midnight to submit BSFL answers? Damn, did not see this coming

I like the hard discussions, I'm sure Trofo does as well. Whenever money is involved the tempers might rise a bit, give us your worst, we can take it.
Just be sure that all we do is for the benefit and longevity of BSFL and that we also sometimes miscalculate, make a mistake or simply fuck up. We don't hide behind it, openly admit it, try to explain our reasoning and make improvements for the future.

Again cryptofrka,  I don't see how I'm the 2nd most beneficiary of free points.  Most people in division 2 got 6 free points,  like 3 -4 persons if I'm not being wrong. I don't know how you counted Kanapka match as free point to me  when I literally won that due 6-3,. Matter of fact,  that game put me on goals disadvantage because 3 goals was deducted from me because Kanapka disqualification.

Everybody got points from Kanapka. The other free points are:

Trofo 9 (vs Saint-loup, Igebotz and bullrun2024bro)
chi20 6 (vs famososMuertos and bullrun2024bro)
bullrun2024bro 3 (vs famososMuertos)
ulven 3 (vs dbshck)
ralle14 3 (vs Ulven)
Strongkored 3 (vs dbshck)

So - we cannot change what happened with Kanapka's points. Some people got points after a loss, some after a draw. But if we remove Kanapka, you are the one that profited the most after Trofo from free points.

[Harkorede]

important difference here is that De Minaur withdrawal still let two different answers available, draw and Cerundolo, and odds were pretty much the same, since Cerundolo was on cca 1.8 to win first round

Logically and technically, anyone could argue that there was one answer left, and a draw was already out of the way because, someone who made an appearance in a competition already came further than the other who didn't, as in the case Tennis, Cerundolo would have gotten paid either way even if he lost the first game, and that would have counted towards his ATP ranking, the same isn't the case for Di Minaur, you only stand a chance to win or draw in a competition you took part off.

And, you'd agree that if someone had to take their chance on the Odds of Cerundolo to win the first round in that game every week to win or lose a round, they'd almost certainly the be the winner of BSFL every season.

Bottom line is: I've known Trofo for possibly as long as I've been active in this forum, and Frka for not so less either, and I'd say certainly that I trust their morals and judgements, even when there is a minute difference in opinions like this, all of which can co-exists, without any being right or wrong. We should understand that what we are trying to achieve here is a generally fair ground, and competition to make a sustainable environment.


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Chelsea and their bullshit ways, of going extremely dead cold one matchday, and resurrected full of life the next always bothers me, it's as though whenever it comes down to them this season, football has nothing to do with form, and player availability, playing at home and whatnot, all you just need to do is flip a coin to place bet