⭐⚽⭐ Rainbet's Bitcointalk Sports Fanatics League (BSFL) – 13000$ rewards ⭐⚽⭐

[welovebit]

I just submitted my reply feeling sad because as already mentioned by @Trofo and @LFC_Bitcoin things are going on wrong way due this I want he needs to be stay in BSFL because he deserve this despite what happening around.

Hopefully best will be happen because its more important after reading few above posts now no need to write or mention any thing because few already give good response which are more important for community.

[slackovic]

Jesus... I thought that BSFL will be excluded from all the Meta and Reputation board drama. I never go there because I don't need any more drama in my life. I know that this forum is full of shitposters, but I have no intention on being the forum police. I didn't want to include myself in the arralmus case, so I don't want to include myself into this matter. I have made my vote according to this post

All in all, I don't see why anyone should be expelled from the BSFL if he didn't get banned from the forum.

[Rikafip]

All in all, I don't see why anyone should be expelled from the BSFL if he didn't get banned from the forum.

Bitcointalk does not moderate scams/cheating and you can't get banned for that, so that should not dictate whether a user is expelled from the BSFL.


@Koal-84 buddy, I think that you might have wrote your last post in the wrong thread. 

[slackovic]

Bitcointalk does not moderate scams/cheating and you can't get banned for that, so that should not dictate whether a user is expelled from the BSFL.

/snip

Well, that's the problem for the forum. I don't see why would anyone not get banned if he is proved to be a scammed or a cheater. But as I said, I won't get into this mess.

[Trofo]

and I agree with nutildah in all cases with the exception of arallmuus' case. I'm saying this as someone who is active in different boards.

Did you see me saying anything about any other ban except for arallmuus case before this one? I would argue that I am not the one jumping in except in situations where I feel there has been injustice. Unfortunately, since I hate all things of this nature, I only get activated when I feel there is enormous chasm between my opinion and decision made.

You say there's evidence that can't be shared publicly. OK. I trust your words, but I trust theymos' words too.
Also note that the evidence against CLS63 and the two other users were provided by different people, not only nutildah.

I don't know what evidence you have and how strong it is. Even if you can't share them publicly, you may want to consider sharing them privately with some reputable members of the forum (including some of users you don't like).

I tried sharing evidence and data, at least parts that aren't sensitive. Unfortunately, my trust ratings and being 31st most recognized profile on forum means nothing to the people doing this. In their eyes I am paid by casino...case closed.

My main point is that I don't agree with voting.
If CLS63 hasn't cheated in the BSFL, he deserve to stay in LMS. If CLS63 has cheated in the BSFL, he must be out of it and all other forum contests.
I don't like how all BSFL members are eligible to vote, even though they don't know what private information you are talking about and they don't know what IPv6 is.

If you say "We as BSFL managers did our investigations and decided to allow CLS63 to continue in BSFL" is better than you say "We allow CLS63 to continue in BSFL because members voted fot that."

Every piece of data we analyzed inside BSFL shows that there was no cheating inside BSFL. Not saying there isn't some but we didn't found anything yet. Even if they are all connected. On the other hand we don't want multiple accounts inside BSFL but according to everything available to us we have a different opinion than the one that is prevalent in meta. Cls63 has a problem that he is too nice guy and doesn't want to throw others under the bus. I am not saying he is without the blame here, I am quite sure he knew about multi accounts before this happened which also carries part of the guilt but I am also quite sure he isn't the same person as the one controlling those multi accounts.

Even on our voting form it says something like, end decision will be ours we are just wanting to see how this community is seeing this situation. Wording is probably different but that is the gist. End decision will be ours, we will not hide behind voting results and say it is out of our hands. But unlike some, I am well aware I can get things wrong and in this case I wanted to know how the community feels. In the end we are doing this for gambling community and its opinion matters to me more than the opinion of meta guys that never stepped here or tried to play with us.

Don't know if you noticed but we are actually saying to all of you every week that mistakes are possible and inviting you all to double check whatever you want. Even going out of our way to preserve all possible data points to make it easier to double check everything. While usual MO on this forum is I am the big guy, I am infallible, screw you. We lost so many good people from BSFL because rules seem complicated at first, and 90% of text there is to hold us accountable and make whole thing transparent. There will be hard calls and screw ups in any endeavors, for me, the measure of any man or business is how he reacts at that points. And a lot of people fall short on that test here on bitcointalk.  


everyone, sorry for a bit of rant. Double standards and injustice always gets the rise of me. I will try my best to not say anything more about this topic until our final decision. We have reached to some people to help us refute or strengthen some particularly important pieces of evidence and we will make our call after that. Now please let's steer conversation back towards what BSFL is all about and have fun.

[CLS63]

''Procedure precedes substance''

[buwaytress]

Fuck guys. I was going to add another long pile of dogshit but it doesn't change anything, doesn't help anyone, so instead, I'm going to say: thank you Trofo cryptofrka LFC_Bitcoin and whoever else who has voiced their outrage. To hosemary: I can't think of a more rigid (that's a compliment) user I respect more on this forum, but I think the voicing out has little to do with the decision, but with the way the decision is made, the manner with which dissenting opinion is handled, and the selectiveness of the process.

Whatever the outcome, I think it's best we return to what we can control: and that's reminding everyone why this fucking thread is the best reflection of the spirit of this forum. Respect for each, regardless of standing.

Looking forward to Sunday, so I can kick your beautiful asses to the ground, my gentle friends.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Code:

@buwaytress

Hear, hear!

Time for my team to spend the next few months trying to get out (and stay out) of Division 3.

[hosemary]

Did you see me saying anything about any other ban except for arallmuus case before this one?

No.

Unfortunately, my trust ratings and being 31st most recognized profile on forum means nothing to the people doing this. In their eyes I am paid by casino...case closed.

Here is where the problem comes from.
Some users are defending CLS63, and some users are against him. I trust people from both sides.

For example, I trust both nutildah and you.

Every piece of data we analyzed inside BSFL shows that there was no cheating inside BSFL.

I understand this, but it doesn't make the evidence provided in nutildah's thread worthless.
Both sides do have points.

Even on our voting form it says something like, end decision will be ours we are just wanting to see how this community is seeing this situation.

This is good.

In the end we are doing this for gambling community and its opinion matters to me more than the opinion of meta guys that never stepped here or tried to play with us.

I don't like the term "gambling community."
We have a bigger community on top of that which is Bitcointalk community. Some people on Reputation board have been doing great job to find alts for years, and they are all part of the Bitcointalk community.

Some people on gambling board believe that CLS63 should continue in BSFL. Do all of them really believe that CLS63 hasn't done anything wrong? Aren't some defending CLS63 just because they want to defend the "gambling community" against people outside the "gambling community"?


I hate seeing there's a battle between two groups of people. As someone who is active in different parts of the forum and has had discussions with recognized users from different parts of the forum, I don't want the recent events to turn into a fight between different parts of the Bitcointalk community.

To hosemary: I can't think of a more rigid (that's a compliment) user I respect more on this forum, but I think the voicing out has little to do with the decision, but with the way the decision is made, the manner with which dissenting opinion is handled, and the selectiveness of the process.

I know the final decision will be made by Trofo and cryptofraka, but I still don't like the voting.
People vote based on what? Do they analyze the Blockchain transactions? Do they have access to the private data Trofo is talking about? Do they know what is IPv6?

Whether CLS63 has cheated or not should be determined by data, not votes.
We have some people in the forum that are good in such analysis, and even theymos shared some data about IP logs.

If someone believes that those evidence are not sufficient, they should tell us why. It's pointelss if I vote for CLS63 stay just because there are worse people in the forum or just because cryptofrka has posted positive feedback for him.

I hope that CLS63 is proven innocent and I see him in the next season of BSFL.


Edit:
I preferred this discussuin to be on Reputation board, as I think it's somehow unrelated to the purpose of this thread.
Trofo, cryptofrka, it's normal that people have different opinions. I hope you will finally make the best decision, and whatever it is, I for one will respect it.

[Koal-84]

I have already submitted my vote as well. Personally, I am not in favor of creating a huge drama out of this situation. In the beginning, it is possible that mistakes were made due to a lack of knowledge or experience, especially when things like airdrops and similar opportunities were involved. Someone may have created a second account without fully understanding the rules, or perhaps even asked a friend to participate on their behalf.

However, after being an active member of the forum for a longer period of time, a person should clearly recognize that such behavior is not appropriate and goes against the spirit of fair competition. Occasional mistakes are one thing, but years of cheating and gaining an unfair advantage cross the line in my opinion. I have already cast my vote and stated my position, but I will of course respect and support whatever decision is reached through a democratic community vote.

[igebotz]

We're having too many political discussions on the wrong thread and why is everyone writing wall of texts to explain something we already know - looking like some Essay competition shit  

How about the Mafia channel this energy into making me return to Division 1 instead.

[Trofo]

Season 9 - Archival post

Division 1

•POS•	••Username••••	•PLD•	•W•	•D•	•L•	•SF•	•SA•	•SD•	•PTS•
1	vd309	17	9	4	4	69	61	8	31
2	Rikafip	17	9	3	5	70	58	12	30
3	cls63	17	10	0	7	72	62	10	30
4	cryptofrka	17	9	3	5	70	68	2	30
5	hosemary	17	8	5	4	71	62	9	29
6	jayce	17	8	4	5	61	60	1	28
7	ulven	17	8	3	6	71	65	6	27
8	Saint-loup	17	7	4	6	67	60	7	25
9	ralle14	17	7	4	6	58	63	-5	25
10	slaman29	17	8	0	9	69	66	3	24
11	darxiaomi	17	7	3	7	66	70	-4	24
12	Renato297	17	8	0	9	68	62	6	23
13	Trofo	17	6	5	6	70	66	4	23
14	el che	17	6	5	6	72	69	3	23
15	strongkored	17	6	3	8	57	64	-7	21
16	Harkorede	17	6	2	9	61	65	-4	20
17	mv1986	17	6	2	9	59	56	3	19
18	Slissy	17	0	0	17	0	51	-51	0

Division 2

•POS•	••Username••••	•PLD•	•W•	•D•	•L•	•SF•	•SA•	•SD•	•PTS•
1	Jinetics1111	17	10	1	6	66	58	8	31
2	goodpunt	17	9	2	6	74	63	11	29
3	Spack17	17	9	2	6	63	61	2	29
4	Da_Silva	17	9	1	7	68	60	8	28
5	notblox1	17	9	1	7	70	69	1	28
6	MAAManda	17	8	1	8	67	67	0	25
7	VashaUdacha777	17	8	1	8	71	60	11	24
8	vivekdkhyani	17	6	6	5	66	61	5	24
9	arallmuus	17	7	3	7	67	63	4	24
10	LTU_btc	17	7	3	7	58	56	2	24
11	leea-1334	17	8	1	8	64	69	-5	24
12	Hhampuz	17	8	1	8	67	76	-9	24
13	paco92x	17	6	4	7	74	67	7	22
14	Igebotz	17	6	4	7	56	58	-2	22
15	buwaytress	17	7	1	9	60	67	-7	22
16	Ozymandias_DZ	17	6	3	8	64	70	-6	21
17	Dittoup	17	5	4	8	59	69	-10	19
18	B1g4udge	17	5	1	11	51	71	-20	14

Division 3

•POS•	••Username••••	•PLD•	•W•	•D•	•L•	•SF•	•SA•	•SD•	•PTS•
1	HomieAllDay	17	11	4	2	67	52	15	37
2	imarios	17	10	4	3	71	59	12	34
3	chi20	17	10	3	4	68	57	11	33
4	slackovic	17	11	0	6	67	58	9	33
5	famososMuertos	17	10	1	6	66	57	9	31
6	LFC_Bitcoin	17	9	2	6	58	44	14	27
7	Ochan_yazo_tochant	17	8	2	7	67	62	5	26
8	Kokee44	17	8	2	7	58	54	4	25
9	mitchr4	17	7	4	6	59	59	0	24
10	Smartvirus	17	7	2	8	59	66	-7	23
11	Koal-84	17	7	1	9	52	52	0	22
12	ILuckyGuyI	17	6	4	7	64	68	-4	21
13	ajanwalker	17	5	3	9	61	69	-8	18
14	russeras	17	5	4	8	58	62	-4	17
15	cygan	17	4	5	8	57	64	-7	16
16	hakan2217	17	3	4	10	57	72	-15	13
17	un_rank	17	4	2	11	55	65	-10	12
18	yassinmanai	17	3	3	11	50	74	-24	10

Division 4

•POS•	••Username••••	•PLD•	•W•	•D•	•L•	•SF•	•SA•	•SD•	•PTS•
1	Heyshbosh	17	10	2	5	74	51	23	32
2	entebah	17	10	2	5	69	56	13	32
3	General_Bitcoin	17	10	1	6	67	65	2	31
4	EarnOnVictor	17	9	3	5	68	58	10	30
5	Bitcoin Smith	17	9	2	6	64	53	11	29
6	Dump3er	17	9	3	5	66	51	15	28
7	ovcijisir	17	9	1	7	62	54	8	28
8	welovebit	17	9	1	7	64	62	2	28
9	Daniel91	17	8	3	6	65	62	3	27
10	pina_pino	17	9	1	7	53	54	-1	27
11	BABY SHOES	17	7	5	5	66	59	7	26
12	xLays	17	8	2	7	65	59	6	26
13	Nheer	17	8	3	6	59	54	5	26
14	jeremypwr	17	8	2	7	59	56	3	24
15	execijutiere	17	7	2	8	53	53	0	23
16	Bitcoin_Budha	17	4	3	10	63	74	-11	15
17	Note3	17	0	0	17	0	48	-48	0
18	knuckey	17	0	0	17	0	48	-48	0

W - Games Won, L - Games Lost, D - Games Drawn
POS - League Position, SD - Score Difference, SF - Score For
SA - Score Against, PLD - Games Played, PTS - Points Earned


Spreadsheet with your answers can be found here.

We will keep track of all the questions here.

League:

Round 1 questions - deadline Mar 31st, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 2 questions - deadline Apr 7th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 3 questions - deadline Apr 14th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 4 questions - deadline Apr 21st, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 5 questions - deadline Apr 28th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 6 questions - deadline May 5th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 7 questions - deadline May 19th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 8 questions - deadline May 26th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 9 questions - deadline Jun 2nd, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 10 questions - deadline Jun 9th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 11 questions - deadline Jun 16th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 12 questions - deadline Jun 30th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 13 questions - deadline Jul 14th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 14 questions - deadline Jul 21st, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 15 questions - deadline Jul 28th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 16 questions - deadline Aug 4th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Round 17 questions - deadline Aug 18th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED


_______________________________________________________________


Cup:

Cup Rounds 1&2 questions - deadline May 12th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Cup Round 3 questions - deadline Jun 23rd, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Cup Round 4 questions - deadline Jun 26th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Cup quarterfinals questions - deadline Jul 9th, 18:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Cup semifinals questions - deadline Aug 11th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - CLOSED
Cup finals/playoffs questions - deadline Aug 25th, 17:00 GMT (forum time) - OPEN

Full Cup draw can be seen here.

_______________________________________________________________

League schedule:

Rounds 1-6 || Rounds 7-12 || Rounds 13-17



Penalty points and VAR usage





Rewards distribution

[slackovic]

/snip

How about the Mafia channel this energy into making me return to Division 1 instead.

I'm not sure if you heard, but my team goal is to make another promotion this season. Luckily for you, you can still get a promotion even when I finish this season at the 1st place of division 2

[el che]

First, nobody is forcing anyone to read long posts, nor can anyone stop a member from writing detailed posts if they choose to do so. Some of us prefer to be thorough in how we express our thoughts and to each their own. Respecting different perspectives is the foundation of good communication, healthy debate and reaching a fair resolution.

As for those saying they don't want this thread to become "political", that could have easily been avoided if Cro2 hadn't put this to a vote. The moment that post was made, it inherently became political. When the competition managers explicitly ask for the community's perspective, no one can be blamed for expressing a political stance. I hadn't posted anything regarding this subject until Cro2 brought it up in the thread and asked for input.

I agree with almost everything Hosemary said. We share the same outlook for one main reason, we base our decisions on hard facts rather than emotions or friendship. While trust and personal relationships do matter, they cannot be the only factors. We must evaluate the hard evidence presented in the reputation thread alongside CLS's side of the story.

I have spent a significant amount of my own time looking into this to help protect the gambling community and preserve the integrity of the game. That means doing what is right rather than giving someone a pass just because they are a friend. In situations like this, you cannot rely solely on emotion, you have to examine every single angle.

We all want CLS to be innocent, for this matter to be cleared up once and for all, for BSFL to stay clean and for those who rushed to blame us to realize they were wrong. But we have to handle this the right way. My effort in this matter isn't to try to make CLS look guilty, I am putting just as much effort into finding evidence that could exonerate him and prove his innocence. That's what anyone deserves. Whatever findings I gather, I pass along to Cro2 to decide. But even after all my research and analyzing everything provided, I'm still not convinced either way. As Cro2 knows, only theymos has the definitive logs and is the only one who can close this case once and for all.

[cryptofrka]

Hey fellas, let me chip in too. I'm still very sick so not sure how on point I'll be.

First of all, we're here to have fun. I hate drama, after this case is closed we'll hopefully gather as a community again and those that will not be happy with the decision will hopefully understand that it wasn't that easy to make.
I really don't want this dragging on any further after the decision is made.

Regarding the poll - it is not binding. We did not even share the results. We wanted to gauge the 'feeling' so I don't really think that understanding IPV addresses means much. We have a situation in which theymos is publicly standing behind nutildah's back and doing what I think was never done before - interfering in such a way.
I am doing extensive search on the topic but it's not one I'm strong in - what I can understand is that equal IPv adresses act as a supporting evidence - meaning that it was a mistake to lead the public opinion in that way on something that can't be considered legitimate evidence. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

We are purposefully taking our time here. I contacted many experts to explain that IPV shit to me, we also did some testings with free Opera VPN. I don't like to be made like an idiot and sure - maybe CLS63 is making me look like one. I want to draw my own conclusions, and not believe any of the DT members with theirs.
Why not? Because I do know how the system works, how Trust is being given and lost and what trades happen. I trust people I cross paths with, nothing is earned by default.

Regarding the 'we are one community' - I for one am not. I hate politics and Bitcointalk is mostly politics. The dirt from all the shit that happened here can be seen from outer space and no - I don't mind saying that I don't feel connected with them at all.
We are doing our own stuff, unrelated to the rest, and everybody's invited - as long as we understand that this is simply a game, on a forum, whose only goal is sports discussion and banter.

Sure, that does not mean the cheaters are welcome - they are not. But that also does not mean that we're OK with banning members just because it is more convenient to do so.

Bottom line - I don't really care much what happens to CLS63. Sure, he was a big part of a community but we're also businessmen here - and want to continue without any drama. I care how we as organizers handle this.
Simplest thing to do is to ban him - maybe we still will - but the reason we did not is because something stinks from the off. And when on BTT something stinks, the fire is there as well.

There are 3 ways this ends:
1. CLS63 is proven innocent - not likely because it would require theymos to find such evidence
2. not enough evidence - then he cannot be found guilty
3. he is 100% proven guilty - then I'll burn him down myself

[CLS63]

Hello everyone,

The events that have taken place recently have honestly made me very sad. However, throughout this process, the psychological support I received from my friends meant a lot to me, regardless of whether they saw me as guilty or innocent. I truly appreciate everyone who stood by me.

As some of you may remember, I tried several times to sell my slot before the season started. I guess fate had other plans for me, and perhaps I was simply not meant to compete in Division 1 this season.

After competing in this league for 9 seasons, I have decided to step away from Division 1.

I wish everyone the best of luck for the upcoming season. From now on, I will be following this league not as a team owner, but as a fan.

Thank you all for the memories over the past 9 seasons.

[Trofo]

Now that CLS63 took things from our hands of his own volition, our final verdict is following:
* at this moment CLS63 is not found guilty, his buy in fee for Div1 will be returned, and he can join any of the future season from the bottom or buy buying a club. He still lost on the opportunity to sell his club since this happened way to late for smooth transition, he plays RTG
* ILuckyGuyI is removed for multi accounting and his buy in fee is confiscated for future rewards, not part of RTG anyway

these decisions have been based on both public info and info that we privately received plus some research of our own and help of other members.


This now means we have 2 clubs for sale and potentially 2 spots in Division 4 to be filled (bidding is open for people outside of BSFL as well, unique opportunity). If you know someone that wants to play BSFL let him know, time to sign up is now. Available spots will be auctioned in following way:
Division 1 spot: initial bid 5 mBTC (double fee), following bids have to be 0.5mBTC higher than previous one
Division 3 spot: initial bid 1 mBTC (double fee), following bids have to be 0.1mBTC higher than previous one

Auction closes on Saturday 8PM GMT, if someone bids in the last hour, auction prolongs for another hour. If there are no bidders, we will promote the highest placed club from the lower division. They will need to pay regular fee for that division.

[buwaytress]

Well, now there is a spot, I propose myself be elevated to Div1 again. Simply because I have lived on the forum so far without much entitlement, but I want to now behave as my seniority befits.

All in favour of me being in Div1 because it is what I deserve and because I say so, say #Aye2Buway

I approve of this messaging.

Time for my team to spend the next few months trying to get out (and stay out) of Division 3.

Come to Div2, where the grass is green and the girls are pretty (unlike Div1 where you have hairy bums from Croatia running the place).

[icopress]

Division 1 spot: initial bid 5 mBTC (double fee), following bids have to be 0.5mBTC higher than previous one

5 mBTC, thx!

[Nheer]

Division 3 spot: initial bid 1 mBTC (double fee), following bids have to be 0.1mBTC higher than previous one

1 mBtc for Division 3 spot.