Poll on solving the imgur issue

[theymos]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:

1: Do nothing. People will have to edit past broken images and use different image-hosting services going forward.

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

3: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy so they all just work. But this has privacy implications, since imgur will see forum users' IPs. Also, imgur has apparently banned a lot of Tor exit nodes etc. as well, so imgur images won't work for everyone.

4: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy as above, but prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

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[Jawhead999]

1. There are many users have more than 5000+ posts and it's time consuming for them to edit all past broken images.

2. At least users can see the images even though they need to click it.

3 and 4 some users are really care with their privacy.

I vote number 2.

[ibminer]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:

1: Do nothing. People will have to edit past broken images and use different image-hosting services going forward.

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

3: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy so they all just work. But this has privacy implications, since imgur will see forum users' IPs. Also, imgur has apparently banned a lot of Tor exit nodes etc. as well, so imgur images won't work for everyone.

4: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy as above, but prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

#1: I don't like.
#2: It is worth noting similar privacy concerns as #3 when doing the javascript option.
#3: Those that are worried about this, I'm curious what your main fear is with imgur knowing your IPs when you see an image?

Tough decision between 2,3 & 4 for me, but I'd lean more towards 3-4 and would probably land at #4 myself as an option.

[Cantsay]

1: Do nothing. People will have to edit past broken images and use different image-hosting services going forward.

I don't believe this option is fixable because some helpful threads were established by people who are no longer active, making it hard to modify those posts unless admin edit it themselves, such as this thread How to sign a message?! The original poster of this thread was last active in 2020.

4: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy as above, but prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

Option 2 & 3 are okay but I this the fourth option is the best here; as it could solve the issue of the inactive user issue so I'd vote for No 4.

[Adbitco]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:

1: Do nothing. People will have to edit past broken images and use different image-hosting services going forward.

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

For my own suggestions this option should be implemented, maybe whomever that wishes to edit can go ahead and edit to include another image hosting site and at same time make it clickable for those who don't have time to edit their old images may likely click on the link to view images. I think the two option can be implemented because there series of post that contains images they might not be able to ahead editing them, but as for recent posts that has images can be possibly edited and use another image hosting site imo.
Maybe lets see what other options some users may suggest here.

[Nwada001]

Voter for 2. To me, it will be easier that way since the image links are still very valid and active, and people reading through threads can easily click on the link to view the image information without any other form of stress.

1. This could have been better, but, just as Jawhead999 has stated, there are more users who have created a lot of topics and comments with a lot of images that can't all be edited, and there are also users who have dropped quality posts and comments with images. Those threads are still very useful, but those users might either no longer be active on the forum or be permanently banned from the forum, so their ways of editing such threads won't be there.

[Learn Bitcoin]

3 and 4 some users are really care with their privacy.

It's not like the admin will edit the link and add different images. He will adjust something, and the same image will appear. If someone posts an image to show it in the forum, there is nothing about privacy. I don't think anyone wants not to show their images in the forum that was posted already. About showing IP to Imgur, Imgur already know users' IP whoever used their service. I don't think people care too much about using their IP on a image hosting website.

4: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy as above, but prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

I support number four. There are a lot of members who are not in the forum anymore. Some of them are unlikely to return to the forum in the future. We don't know the possibility. There are a bunch of tutorials where a single thread contains more than five or ten images. It would be tough for someone to open all ten images and see them. Some tutorials are incomplete without images. I highly recommend implementing number four.

Thanks for your attention.

[Eternad]

1: Do nothing. People will have to edit past broken images and use different image-hosting services going forward.

Do nothing I guess, There’s a lot of old post in the past that have a broken images when I’m browsing old post in the forum especially on the marketplace section that typically post images for the item they are selling.

It’s the author/poster main responsibility to update all his post if he really values all his content. I think the only exemption to the rules are those constructive post that have a high a value in the forum which created by an inactive user already.

But ofc, fixing it is not a bad idea if the admin will not sacrifice their time on doing it.

[Lafu]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:
1: Do nothing. People will have to edit past broken images and use different image-hosting services going forward.

I guess that will or would be the worst nightmare for all Users that only used imgur for there Pictures.
I am not affected of this issue with imgur and only used it maybe 2 times , most time i using a german service or imgbb.

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

Guess for all the Users that are affected with the problem that would be the best solution.
So its a yes for option 2 and 4 from me.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

I vote for number four: let the old ones be exceptions, but the future ones should be disabled. There is a new image hosting site that has been designed by the user Joker_josue for forum members to use. I think members should go for it and forget about Imgur.

[ibminer]

Guess for all the Users that are affected with the problem that would be the best solution.
So its a yes for option 2 and 4 from me.

#2 still effects the flow or context of a post, discussion, etc., forcing it clickable just adds a step each reader would need to do to see the image, which is a bit annoying and defeats the purpose of an embedded image, which in a lot of cases can provide valuable information to a post or discussion as you scroll through. #2 is not a horrible option though, as it may take more accountability off the forum itself because the user has to initiate a click to expose their IP to imgur, instead of the forum auto-allowing it through an exception, IF this is a concern. If it is not a concern, #4 seems to be a better option for the forum and its users.

[pawanjain]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:

1: Do nothing. People will have to edit past broken images and use different image-hosting services going forward.

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

3: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy so they all just work. But this has privacy implications, since imgur will see forum users' IPs. Also, imgur has apparently banned a lot of Tor exit nodes etc. as well, so imgur images won't work for everyone.

4: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy as above, but prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

We never know what additional restrictions Imgur may impose on us and therefore, I believe that we should avoid using it in our future posts.
My ideal choice would be to exempt the previous posts and restrict the use of Imgur for future posts.
Fortunately, we have Talkimg by Joker_Josue, which is an excellent alternative for hosting images.
Additionally, the script by TryNinja has helped many of us to replace our existing images with the ones hosted on Talkimg.
So we do have that option as well for the previous posts.

[ImThour]

Turning Imgur images into links will be the best option in my honest opinion, so I have voted for that. I mean "Do nothing" shouldn't be an option when you have great alternatives with you.
It's crazy like imgur is the only site I used in all of my forum posts to add images, will have to find another reliable option without ads.

[jrrsparkles]

I voted for option 2 which is turn them into clickable links because thousands of inages had been posted on bitcoin using Imgur hosting service now all those images becomes invalid. For future we can use alternate hosting service which will not affect the users but all the concern is about the posts made in the past.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

That's for me and "prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts".

As an admin the lesser involvement for you is better to avoid any future controversy, although I don't think any controversy is even possible. But there are people, who can bring a serious case out of nothing.

For those who really want their images as it was, they can just use TryNinja's script. Seekers will find their solutions today or tomorrow.

[ibminer]

IMO I'm not sure it should matter as much on what the user can do themselves, some of the users may not even be here anymore.

The forum itself should want the images as they were in the thread, to preserve the historical nature.

I certainly will not be mass-editing my prior posts, with or without a script, so hopefully there will be something that can be done here with one of the options in the OP, even if it doesn't end up the most optimal option for the forum and future readers.

[shahzadafzal]

Ahh so it's clear we don't have a clean solution to this at the moment.

Having a forum's own image hosting service would be ideal, but yes it would require significant investment in terms of time, money, and effort.

To be honest I think doing nothing shouldn't be an option here... we have to do something

3: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy so they all just work. But this has privacy implications, since imgur will see forum users' IPs. Also, imgur has apparently banned a lot of Tor exit nodes etc. as well, so imgur images won't work for everyone.

Big No!!! Leaking ip to imgur might be ok to some users but this could potentially be manipulated and exploited, I mean "nobles" will find a way to put their own urls, which might lead to user's IP tracking.

4: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy as above, but prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

Isn't it the same as option No. 3? How will it work? I mean If I go to my old post and try to edit, will it allow me to save without updating the imgur link? If not then it's another headache for the users and if yes then the same risk of IP leak is there.

So technically speaking, option 3 and 4 aren't the same?

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

This seems more appropriate solution from all the options presented, convert all the imgur [img] tags to clickable links.
Further I don't know how this "without going through the image proxy" thing will work? I'm afraid it might have a risk of IP leak too, as you mentioned in option 3.

For those who really want their images as it was, they can just use TryNinja's script. Seekers will find their solutions today or tomorrow.

That script is limited to active users only and even among those users, I have doubts that less than 50% will be aware of its existence or actually execute it.

[sokani]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:
2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

I would go with this because there are members that have a made great number of educative posts containing imgur broken images and it's going to be a daunting task to update all of these images. More also, some members have passed on so there is no way such posts can be updated, some accounts have been banned while some have been abondoned because of one reason or the other.

[decodx]

I support the idea of implementing option 2 - "Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image". This approach strikes a middle ground where users can still choose to fix their images by switching to a different image hosting service and editing their posts. At the same time, this solution addresses privacy concerns as members' IP addresses won't be shared with third parties without their knowledge or consent. It provides a practical compromise that benefits both user experience and privacy protection. The same as we already have with external links. As for JavaScript-expand into an embedded image, I don't think it's necessary.

[dkbit98]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:

None of the four solutions you offered is ideal but if I had to choose one of them I would select second option to make all imgur links clickable and keep some privacy.

There was a lot of talk of turning all imgur links into TalkImg links, or maybe even imgbb, but we don't know if imgbb will do something similar in future, and I am not sure TalkImg can handle a lot of traffic yet.
In ideal situation I would prefer if we could just replace all imgur images, but I don't think it's that simple.

[light_warrior]

I support the idea of implementing option 2 - "Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image". This approach strikes a middle ground where users can still choose to fix their images by switching to a different image hosting service and editing their posts. At the same time, this solution addresses privacy concerns as members' IP addresses won't be shared with third parties without their knowledge or consent. It provides a practical compromise that benefits both user experience and privacy protection. The same as we already have with external links. As for JavaScript-expand into an embedded image, I don't think it's necessary.

I fully support this option. Although many people may not like the use of JavaScript in this clause because someone does not use JavaScript or because they are afraid of some vulnerabilities. I think the use of JavaScript is appropriate in this case.

[NeuroticFish]

I guess that option 2 is okay. Not optimal, still okay.
The users active on Bitcointalk can act if they want to, there's a script doing a great job.
The rest of the posts will at least have the links to the images.

[Zanab247]

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

I vote for number 2 which it will make the image embedded, and it will be very easy for Bitcointalk.org users to click the link without going through the image proxy.

[OgNasty]

As someone who has a lot of images hosted on Imgur showing various products and historical information, I think it would be nice if I didn’t have to download software on my machine and spend time reviewing code in order to get my images preserved. I would much prefer the forum fix this issue either by migrating all images to a new service, hosting them, or allowing historical images to remain.

[Mate2237]

The best way to solve this image issue is to add upload image feature in the standard tool bar like the way images are uploaded in other websites and social media like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram WhatsApp and others. And that will make the process even more easier for users to upload image. Using the third party uploading method is cause of the whole problem so to avoid such problem in the future let the admin add image uploading feature in the forum software.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

For those who really want their images as it was, they can just use TryNinja's script. Seekers will find their solutions today or tomorrow.

That script is limited to active users only and even among those users, I have doubts that less than 50% will be aware of its existence or actually execute it.

Those who are not active they are protected by the option 2 which is removing the [img] tag and just to leave the image url.

There was a lot of talk of turning all imgur links into TalkImg links, or maybe even imgbb, but we don't know if imgbb will do something similar in future, and I am not sure TalkImg can handle a lot of traffic yet.

With good funding and have passion of doing something, TalkImg can be a good resource for us. In fact why don't we have our own image hosting? The forum does no have money problem after all. If the forum has it's own image hosting then we don't need to depend on any third party. Images are a good part of the culture we made on the forum.

[Josefjix]

For those who really want their images as it was, they can just use TryNinja's script. Seekers will find their solutions today or tomorrow.

That script is limited to active users only and even among those users, I have doubts that less than 50% will be aware of its existence or actually execute it.

Those who are not active they are protected by the option 2 which is removing the [img] tag and just to leave the image url.

What happens to a tutorial thread that uses an image as an illustration? Making the image just a link would make the thread less valuable and more confusing for everyone. The best option would be 3 or 4, as there are many past posts and images that don't need to be tampered with. I'd say getting back all the old images to work again would be the perfect option, and then a ban on imgur service moving forward.

There was a lot of talk of turning all imgur links into TalkImg links, or maybe even imgbb, but we don't know if imgbb will do something similar in future, and I am not sure TalkImg can handle a lot of traffic yet.

With good funding and have passion of doing something, TalkImg can be a good resource for us. In fact why don't we have our own image hosting? The forum does no have money problem after all. If the forum has it's own image hosting then we don't need to depend on any third party. Images are a good part of the culture we made on the forum.

The quick solution now would be to either acquire TalkImg or make a large donation to the donation address to get it working as long as the forum is exist.... these are two possible options.

[Stalker22]

I prefer either option 1 or 2. I believe it is the responsibility of the original authors to address and fix their broken posts.

What happens to a tutorial thread that uses an image as an illustration? Making the image just a link would make the thread less valuable and more confusing for everyone.

What happens to the tutorial or thread if the images are deleted from the hosting service for whatever reason? It is not the responsibility of the bicointalk.org forum administrator to fix issues that are beyond his control. Each forum user is responsible for choosing their preferred image hosting service. In this particular situation, it seems that Imgur was not the best choice.

The best option would be 3 or 4, as there are many past posts and images that don't need to be tampered with. I'd say getting back all the old images to work again would be the perfect option, and then a ban on imgur service moving forward.

These options may not be best for members who value their privacy. Do you know why the bitcointalk.org image proxy was introduced in the first place?

[LoyceV]

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

Instead of "expand on click", could you make this a profile option? Something like: "Tick to enable all imgur images without proxy".

3: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy so they all just work. But this has privacy implications, since imgur will see forum users' IPs. Also, imgur has apparently banned a lot of Tor exit nodes etc. as well, so imgur images won't work for everyone.

This isn't a long-term solution once imgur starts deleting anonymous uploads:

In addition to explicit images, Imgur is also removing old and unused photos that are not tied to an account. As a Twitter user noted, Imgur has been used for years to upload photos without an account and post links to different kinds of sites. Removing those images might result in a lot of dead links all over the internet.

The changes are going to take effect this Month on the 15th.

I'm missing option 5:
5. Someone creates a website with all most of the imgur images, and you forward the image proxy to that site for any imgur picture. It's probably a good idea to combine it with option 4:

4: ~prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

Would this be an option for you (@theymos)? If so, I have 801,550 images waiting

It’s the author/poster main responsibility to update all his post if he really values all his content.

I always considered Bitcointalk to be an archive, and long-term, everyone will abandon their accounts.

IMO I'm not sure it should matter as much on what the user can do themselves, some of the users may not even be here anymore.

The forum itself should want the images as they were in the thread, to preserve the historical nature.

My thoughts exactly!

I certainly will not be mass-editing my prior posts, with or without a script, so hopefully there will be something that can be done here with one of the options in the OP, even if it doesn't end up the most optimal option for the forum and future readers.

I don't think I've ever used imgur, but I have quoted hundreds (link doesn't work yet) of imgur images. I wasn't planning on editing those posts, but it would be nice if the images still work.

[hugeblack]

I think the priority now is to keep those photos by hosting them.

I don't think most of us will have a copy of it and therefore the first option is not available.
The last option is meaningless because over time this could happen to any other service.


The ideal solution, is to have an unofficial hosting service (non-profit organization), so that the forum pays a little to ensure that the service will last for several years and bear the volume of traffic, with a monthly payment to them like staff.
thus reducing the damage to intellectual property rights and the existence of a service that the forum members can hold accountable.

It is true that this option will cost about $ 1,000 per month, but the value of this data will definitely be higher than that.

[NotATether]

1: Do nothing. People will have to edit past broken images and use different image-hosting services going forward.

A lot of users with images have permanently left the forum and will not be able to do this.

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

I like this option best.

3: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy so they all just work. But this has privacy implications, since imgur will see forum users' IPs. Also, imgur has apparently banned a lot of Tor exit nodes etc. as well, so imgur images won't work for everyone.

4: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy as above, but prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

I don't trust that Imgur or any other social media company has anyone's privacy in their best interest.

I would combine number 2 with a second option:

Pay the hosting fees of TalkImg service using the Bitcointalk forum reserves to insure that it can continue operating as the preferred image hosting service for Bitcointalk.

But you might want to discuss with them how big their server bill is and whether there's any way to reduce it first.

[nutildah]

I like #2, the link idea.

Its much more pleasant to look at a link than an Invalid Image error.

Other image hosting services have died over the years and the forum has survived. Granted imgur has been the most popular and longest-running of all of them.

Good thing Satoshi didn't post a whole bunch of pictures.

Here's a pic of me and my dog on our last sailing trip. He really likes the sea breeze.

#piratecoder

[Bureau]

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

Although this poll does not make any sense. There will be only a small percentage of users suffering from the Imgur issue. I think the second option looks more viable then all the other options. No one needs to do anything with this second option

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

I will prefer you leave it the way it is now, because we all cannot be going back to begin to trace all our old post and begin to edit them, but we can prevent the future occurrence of this kind by avoiding the use of such image hosting site, since there's an alternative to the use of another site in posting images, those that cares about any particular post they made in the past should go and edit them out and place the new one, henceforth we can be using the new sites for hosting images than the one we've been used with and stop using it.

[Timelord2067]

I've ended up voting "do nothing" as the third and fourth suggestions are impractical as they don't address the long term problem of any third party service either pulling the plug, or going dark without warning.

Why stick a band-aid on a problem when an amputation is required and a brand new prosthetic inserted in its place?

Option two "might" work as long as the plug isn't pulled by said third party provider. How can you be sure in the medium to long term?


Joker's talkimg.com is the solution and ninja's code is the painfree method of porting all legacy images.

[robelneo]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:



2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

This is the best option and I voted for it, and so far it's winning the vote, it will fix all old threads with broken images because option number 1 will leave the majority of the threads with broken images,   I'm sure it can easily be done because you have it as one of the options and we can move forward from using other tools.

[ajiz138]

Poll - vote 2.
I see number 2 being the choice of many people because maybe this is one of the best solutions where imgur becomes a link instead of making it easier for us.

[Peanutswar]

I chose the number 2 because it's pretty annoying that some images with a huge error cannot that project the image. The links are still alive because they are uploaded to Imgur. As long as the links are active, the members can see those once they open or use the TalkImg with joker_josue proposes.

[joker_josue]

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

I think this option is the most viable at the moment, with a quick implementation.
It gives time for users to migrate their images, while they continue to "work" (via click) in the forum.

4: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy as above, but prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

I think this should be implemented to avoid future situations. Because eventually one or another image may become available when they are posted, and days later they stop working.

I'm missing option 5:
5. Someone creates a website with all most of the imgur images, and you forward the image proxy to that site for any imgur picture. It's probably a good idea to combine it with option 4:

4: ~prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

Would this be an option for you (@theymos)? If so, I have 801,550 images waiting

@LoyceV also launched an interesting idea, how do you think it's viable?


EDIT:

The ideal solution, is to have an unofficial hosting service (non-profit organization), so that the forum pays a little to ensure that the service will last for several years and bear the volume of traffic, with a monthly payment to them like staff.
thus reducing the damage to intellectual property rights and the existence of a service that the forum members can hold accountable.

Does the TalkImg service fit this idea!?

[LoyceV]

I'm missing option 5:
5. Someone creates a website with all most of the imgur images, and you forward the image proxy to that site for any imgur picture. It's probably a good idea to combine it with option 4:

4: ~prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

Would this be an option for you (@theymos)? If so, I have 801,550 images waiting

@LoyceV also launched an interesting idea, how do you think it's viable?

I'm done processing the data, see [get yours] Images from imgur.
@joker_josue: I can get you one file with all images if you want.

For consideration: some images are posted by many different users, it wouldn't make sense to have all of them upload the data again with their own unique filename:

Bonus: images posted/quoted by most different accounts (full disclosure: I counted 1 more than needed for each file):

Code:

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[NeuroticFish]

For consideration: some images are posted by many different users, it wouldn't make sense to have all of them upload the data again with their own unique filename

Imho this is a non-problem. An image-website owner would notice in less than a month he can optimize his space by checking the images (maybe their checksums at first) and not store the duplicates while providing same or different (by his choice) links to them. And before the question arises, where deletion is possible, the actual file will be removed only when reference count goes to 0.

[joker_josue]

I'm done processing the data, see [get yours] Images from imgur.
@joker_josue: I can get you one file with all images if you want.

For consideration: some images are posted by many different users, it wouldn't make sense to have all of them upload the data again with their own unique filename:

I think that's fabulous. I believe we don't need to load repeated images.
This would help a lot in managing files on the server.

One thing you can't do is order from oldest to newest, can you? This could be very useful.

[ibminer]

This isn't a long-term solution once imgur starts deleting anonymous uploads:

None of the options deal with deleted images very well, might depend on how big of an issue that actually is. For these, option #2 would create broken links all over the forum, which isn't good for SEO.

Right now, technically the image proxy at least displays a legit image showing the words "invalid image", so it's not really a broken link when seen from a spider/search bot. Again, I don't really know how many of the images have been deleted vs. how many are still hosted under imgur accounts, so I'm not sure how much of an impact it would be.

Instead of "expand on click", could you make this a profile option? Something like: "Tick to enable all imgur images without proxy".

What about users who aren't logged in?

I had mentioned (privately) the thought of the forum itself hosting/archiving sets of images from particular domains through the image proxy, potentially for future situations like this. Hosting sets of images on the forum itself is probably the best case scenario for historical preservation purposes, but based on the options presented in the OP, I don't think this is really something theymos is willing to entertain, probably for good reasons.

I'm not excited about the idea of redirecting everything to any particular image host though, as it feels like that could build up to be a larger problem when that image host has even temporary issues or needs to shut things down entirely for whatever reason.

I don't think I've ever used imgur, but I have quoted hundreds (link doesn't work yet) of imgur images. I wasn't planning on editing those posts, but it would be nice if the images still work.

Good point on the quoted images.

[joker_josue]

Imho this is a non-problem. An image-website owner would notice in less than a month he can optimize his space by checking the images (maybe their checksums at first) and not store the duplicates while providing same or different (by his choice) links to them. And before the question arises, where deletion is possible, the actual file will be removed only when reference count goes to 0.

Doing this is not exactly easy. It would take a system that compares the image posted with the image on the server. This would require constant scraping to see if the image link is the one in today's post or not.

When I created my image service, I thought of doing something so that if an image was not posted on the forum, it would be deleted. But, I quickly realized that this was not going to work. Because there was no minimally viable way to monitor this. The image could be posted once and never viewed again; it could be posted days after it was uploaded... in short, many possibilities. Best solution: uploaded image, cannot be deleted.

[Timelord2067]

For consideration: some images are posted by many different users, it wouldn't make sense to have all of them upload the data again with their own unique filename

Imho this is a non-problem. An image-website owner would notice in less than a month he can optimize his space by checking the images (maybe their checksums at first) and not store the duplicates while providing same or different (by his choice) links to them. And before the question arises, where deletion is possible, the actual file will be removed only when reference count goes to 0.

Nice to see my suggestion of checksums and duplicate files is starting to gain traction. 

In any event, it looks like option #2 is remaining out in front.  Its not the best option and other users suggestions are probably going to fall on deaf ears until IMGUR pulls the plug then this will start again.  As a couple of users have pointed out, none of this will make a difference to users who are not logged into the Forum and will just see a whole lot of broken links.

[LoyceV]

One thing you can't do is order from oldest to newest, can you? This could be very useful.

See tmp.loyce.club/imagebackup/sorted_by_date.txt. I don't see how this helps though: images could be posted/quoted years after they were uploaded.

Instead of "expand on click", could you make this a profile option? Something like: "Tick to enable all imgur images without proxy".

What about users who aren't logged in?

Maybe they can still get the "click to expand" feature.

Imho this is a non-problem. An image-website owner would notice in less than a month he can optimize his space by checking the images (maybe their checksums at first) and not store the duplicates while providing same or different (by his choice) links to them. And before the question arises, where deletion is possible, the actual file will be removed only when reference count goes to 0.

Doing this is not exactly easy. It would take a system that compares the image posted with the image on the server. This would require constant scraping to see if the image link is the one in today's post or not.

A checksum makes this quick: create a checksum for each file, and add it to a long list (or database). For each new upload, see if the checksum already exists. If it does, hard link the new file to the old file instead of creating a new one.
Out of curiosity, I'm now checking how many duplicates there are in the 800k imgur images I have. Results are surprising: there's one image uploaded 32752 times, which turns out to be a removed image: "The image you are requesting does not exist or is no longer available". In total, 10124 images are uploaded once or more, and in total 55932 times. Hard linking those files could save a few GB of data.

[hugeblack]

EDIT:

The ideal solution, is to have an unofficial hosting service (non-profit organization), so that the forum pays a little to ensure that the service will last for several years and bear the volume of traffic, with a monthly payment to them like staff.
thus reducing the damage to intellectual property rights and the existence of a service that the forum members can hold accountable.

Does the TalkImg service fit this idea!?

Unfortunately not, I trust you and thank you for your great effort, but at some point hosting these images will be expensive and therefore you will not be able to pay them out of your own pocket, in addition to that you must be held accountable in case of misuse (such as IP addresses), which is something we cannot do for you.

We need an unofficial party, but it is from the forum and the forum pays for it to be able to do that.

[Timelord2067]

Kind of strange someone turning down help after the hard yards have been done getting the replacement service up and running.

My donation hasn't been confirmed but I hope it helps cover your expenses if only in a small way @joker_jouse


Any one know where @theymos got to?

[rdluffy]

I voted for option 2, I believe that among the options, this would be the best
The images of old topics would still be accessible, especially tutorials and more important things, easily accessible to any user. And any thread would be included in this fix, since if the user needs to do some action, there are many threads that are good but wouldn't be updated by the users in case they need to do something.

Would this be an option for you (@theymos)? If so, I have 801,550 images waiting

It's a good idea too, combined with Talkimg from user joker_josue.
I just don't know what would be the impact on the server of having to host these 801,550 images like that quickly and the costs in the long run  


Maybe option 2 would be the simplest and most effective in order not to generate problems for anyone in the future.

[joker_josue]

Unfortunately not, I trust you and thank you for your great effort, but at some point hosting these images will be expensive and therefore you will not be able to pay them out of your own pocket, in addition to that you must be held accountable in case of misuse (such as IP addresses), which is something we cannot do for you.

We need an unofficial party, but it is from the forum and the forum pays for it to be able to do that.

I understand what you mean.

But whatever you're saying, you're in exactly the same situation. How is this forum, being in the hands of @theymos.


Regarding the current service, I have already explained in more detail what is involved and my commitment to the project. Of course, not everyone has to believe me. But, I believe that I am very committed to the project. If it wasn't, that wouldn't have scaled the project 6 months earlier than anticipated, and at a 3x cost increase, like I did.

And if it gets to the point where I can't take it anymore, I'm totally available to transfer the project to someone else. But believe me, I will always make the effort to keep it going. And if the costs become unbearable, I will only let the project fall if the community gives zero support.

Kind of strange someone turning down help after the hard yards have been done getting the replacement service up and running.

My donation hasn't been confirmed but I hope it helps cover your expenses if only in a small way @joker_jouse

Thanks for the donation. It can take up to a year to confirm, no problem. 

[rby]

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

In as much as all the options appear to me as a temporary measure, I went for option 2. Although I am skeptical in clicking any link that will take me out of the forum, especially if the profile behind the link isn't a reputable member of the forum.
For future purposes, the geeks in the forum, is there no way to link the forum images in imgur server to talkImg by Joker_josue. I don't know if this sounds silly or unachievable, but I know imgur is an open source project. Anything is possible.

[Synchronice]

I'm missing option 5:
5. Someone creates a website with all most of the imgur images, and you forward the image proxy to that site for any imgur picture. It's probably a good idea to combine it with option 4:

4: ~prevent using imgur embedded images in any future posts, to sort of phase it out.

Would this be an option for you (@theymos)? If so, I have 801,550 images waiting

I came here to write this but since Loycev already wrote, I support his idea. This is the best option out there because @LoyceV already managed to get all the images, @joker_josue has already created TalkImg and is more than happy to host images and make his service popular, has proven past experience, is one of the oldest member, isn't going to abandon his service and overall, I personally believe in him.

@theymos this is the best option!

[Wind_FURY]

IMO I'm not sure it should matter as much on what the user can do themselves, some of the users may not even be here anymore.

The forum itself should want the images as they were in the thread, to preserve the historical nature.

I certainly will not be mass-editing my prior posts, with or without a script, so hopefully there will be something that can be done here with one of the options in the OP, even if it doesn't end up the most optimal option for the forum and future readers.

But what else can be done?

I believe the second option is the best compromise without making the forum give up its users' privacy. It's the right move in principle, although it won't make many threads look very good.

[Stalker22]

IMO I'm not sure it should matter as much on what the user can do themselves, some of the users may not even be here anymore.

The forum itself should want the images as they were in the thread, to preserve the historical nature.

I certainly will not be mass-editing my prior posts, with or without a script, so hopefully there will be something that can be done here with one of the options in the OP, even if it doesn't end up the most optimal option for the forum and future readers.

But what else can be done?

I believe the second option is the best compromise without making the forum give up its users' privacy. It's the right move in principle, although it won't make many threads look very good.

I am just throwing out an idea here, but maybe TryNinja or some of the other developers could possibly create a userscript that allows embedding images within posts directly from the client side. It is just a thought off the top of my head!


EDIT: Thank you LoyceV! This is a very useful script.

[LoyceV]

maybe TryNinja ~ could ~ create a userscript that allows embedding images within posts directly from the client side.

You're looking for [Script] Fix broken Imgur images forum-wide (client only).

[DdmrDdmr]

From a user perspective, the ideal solution would be transparent to the him, preserving the display of the images whilst not involving him in the process (many can’t be). Bearing that in mind, and having, I figure, discarded the obvious (having a solution on imgur’s end to the mess they’ve created) the best solution would seem to be this one:

<…> 5. Someone creates a website with all most of the imgur images, and you forward the image proxy to that site for any imgur picture. It's probably a good idea to combine it with option 4 <…>

I would be concerned though with which image repository to use, that minimizes (not eliminates) the risk in the long run of having to shift yet again. The closer the repository is to the forum the more control over it one can have, both in terms of the team that runs it and supports it financially.

[Hispo]

Since in this case I am personally interested in archival purposes, my vote goes for the second option.

There has been occasions when I would like to check on past threads and discussion which are significantly old in the forum and I am afraid I end up losing much of the context, due to the lack of the images referenced. At least with the clickable link the context and the content is still accessible to all of us. 

Since months ago I stopped using Imgur in favor of better alternatives, btw.

[ibminer]

But what else can be done?

With imgur?  Out of the options given in the OP, I would still probably lean towards #3 or #4.

These allow the best view for threads for any images still hosted at imgur and would still allow the image proxy to put up the "invalid image" image for any deleted images, and not a broken link.

People using TOR are usually the ones concerned with their IP privacy, so why does an exemption here matter to them if they're IP is already being covered by Tor? Imgur would only see the Tor node's IP.

For people not using TOR, what would be the main concerns with imgur knowing your IP address viewed an image on the forum?

For #5, this would certainly deal with the deleted imgur images nicely. Are there maybe trust/liability issues here when theymos picks a specific place to force redirect and/or edit the posts of other users image(s) to a particular host?  Options in the OP are just sort of using what the user posted, but displaying them differently.

For the future?

~
I had mentioned (privately) the thought of the forum itself hosting/archiving sets of images from particular domains through the image proxy, potentially for future situations like this. Hosting sets of images on the forum itself is probably the best case scenario for historical preservation purposes, but based on the options presented in the OP, I don't think this is really something theymos is willing to entertain, probably for good reasons.
~

Essentially that the forum would save a backup copy of images as they are seen through the image proxy. Not for [immediate] display purposes, but for archiving, so that if/when an image host/domain goes offline, the forum could then display its archived copy of those images.

It may be too complicated to create, and would overall obviously take some more resources in terms of storage space to save an image the first time it is seen, and bandwidth to display any images that are using the archived copy, aaand probably some slight increases in things like processor/memory/DB activity to manage it all.  

Maybe overkill here but I was thinking more long-term, or in situations where users or the community may not get a chance to save the images. I believe images are a big part of the forum, so losing them and/or access to them in large batches seems bad for the forum.

[theymos]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy. I didn't change anything on the forum's end, so imgur must've loosened up their limits. I guess it's not necessary to convert img images into links as long as imgur keeps working. But to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

I'd like to create a page which recommends services for hosting forum images, and mention this in the error message you get when you try to use imgur. Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

[Learn Bitcoin]

Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

Well, Talkimg should be the first one to suggest since it's an dedicated service for forum members only. Other than this one, we have imgbb.com and postimages.org/postimg.cc (both are the same). These two images hosting are fast for me. Most of the other services are works slowly and not available 24/7. Some of them went down at some point and then get back again after a few hours. But, I am satisfied with imgbb and postimg so far. I hope others will suggest them as well.

I did not check any old Imgur images yet. Is it started working again?

[jayce]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy. I didn't change anything on the forum's end, so imgur must've loosened up their limits. I guess it's not necessary to convert img images into links as long as imgur keeps working. But to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

I'd like to create a page which recommends services for hosting forum images, and mention this in the error message you get when you try to use imgur. Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

Oh I was wondering why I can't upload one of my imgur images on the other thread, thanks for clearing it up! Regarding the other image hosting services, I hope no one mention imgbb lol. Talkimg is still the best one. I once used imagehost.at but they seem not so legit yet, though you could consider them as an alternative for urgent case.

[joker_josue]

Regarding the other image hosting services, I hope no one mention imgbb lol.

What is the problem with imgbb? It was a service I used before TalkImg.
Of course I'd rather they use TalkImg.   But it is to understand.

[jayce]

What is the problem with imgbb? It was a service I used before TalkImg.
Of course I'd rather they use TalkImg.   But it is to understand.

Not sure why but the last time I used imgbb, my images became smaller and had no idea to keep the original size lol.

[RickDeckard]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy. I didn't change anything on the forum's end, so imgur must've loosened up their limits. I guess it's not necessary to convert img images into links as long as imgur keeps working. But to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

Good call regarding future uploads on imgur. However, has an opinion, I don't think we should relax with imgur loosening their limits because then we would just be in an illusion thinking that we are safe. What will happen if imgur decides to push their plan eventually in the future? Or starts implementing more enforced rules? I think that this change is good, mostly because it will give us some time to keep discussing the best way to preserve our forum history. But for that I think that it would be wise to continue discussing it, now a bit more relaxed indeed.

I'd like to create a page which recommends services for hosting forum images, and mention this in the error message you get when you try to use imgur. Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

I personally use vgy.me[1] because I like their privacy statement[2] and never had problems with them (so far) but that mostly has to due with them also not having the same reach as imgur:

We only use your personal information to moderate the website, to remove content that violates our Terms of Service and to ban users who also violate the Terms of Service. Sending of e-mail is triggered by you, the user, when resetting your password or when registering an account with us, where you will receive an activation link via e-mail. We don't send you e-mails for any other reason.

Your IP address is used for moderation to link uploads to the same IP address (we occasionally get users who spam our uploader with hundreds, sometimes thousands of uploads). IP addresses are also logged for us to understand where most of our traffic comes from, so we can provide a better service.

3rd party services who use cookies to store data about your visit is not controlled by us.

If you don't like your information on our site, let us know - we'll get rid of it.

[1]https://vgy.me
[2]https://vgy.me/privacy-policy

[acroman08]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy. I didn't change anything on the forum's end, so imgur must've loosened up their limits. I guess it's not necessary to convert img images into links as long as imgur keeps working. But to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

this is probably for the best. good work!

I'd like to create a page which recommends services for hosting forum images, and mention this in the error message you get when you try to use imgur. Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

I just used imgbb recently once, so I can't really say much about the service but I've seen a lot of members use imgbb before, so I assume it works well.

I did not check any old Imgur images yet. Is it started working again?

on my side, every Imgur image that I have uploaded is working now

[rdluffy]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy. I didn't change anything on the forum's end, so imgur must've loosened up their limits. I guess it's not necessary to convert img images into links as long as imgur keeps working. But to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

I'd like to create a page which recommends services for hosting forum images, and mention this in the error message you get when you try to use imgur. Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

After I had problems with imgur (well before this problem on the forum), I used imgbb and never had any problems whatsoever.
I vote this service as a good recommendation besides talkimg

Not sure why but the last time I used imgbb, my images became smaller and had no idea to keep the original size lol.

After you hit the upload button you can chose one of these option below, and one of them is a thumbnail. I wonder if that is it.

[dkbit98]

I'd like to create a page which recommends services for hosting forum images, and mention this in the error message you get when you try to use imgur. Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

Imgbb.com worked fine when I used it, and I saw other forum members saying that postimages.org is a good alternative.
Note that I didn't research how strict they are with proxy and other things, but it's certainly good to have several image uploading alternatives available.

[Timelord2067]

Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

I use(d) Lightscreen to take and upload screenshots.  Its default website is imgur, however, there is a secondary website inbuilt "pomf-clone" which I can't say I've ever heard of, or have ever used.

An earlier version of Lightscreen had a third choice, but it's been long gone and again it wasn't one I ever used.

[famososMuertos]

I think that the option to not allow Imgur is fine from the point of view of the background that just happened, but technically it does not solve anything, in fact we veto ourselves, since any service can enter the same frequency either by the circumstance whatever.

I used various services even my account Twitter for my images a couple of times, but then this stopped working, so in the sense of thinking which service to use/recommend... is the user's dilemma that complements it with the [img] rules, then, for now a Very explicit, do not use Imgur, size 2.5 MB, JPG, PNG, GIF...

Finally it is obvious that the first option "today" is talkimg but based on what happened and on the bad habit of believing that cloud services are going to be eternal, it is good to recommend that (@users) have your own backup, chiefly for those images that correspond, especially those that can be called original, the only secure accommodation is one that does not depend on third parties, and in terms of backup, thanks to loyce for supporting that number of images.

I think that for those of us who like to add "1000 words"/images to our posts from time to time, this ending is very happy, once again thanks to everyone who tried and made it possible to see alternatives.

I think that any hosting site can serve as long as the forum allows it, obviously talkimg, imgBB, imgbox, this site work without restrictions and without registration. It also works postimages but the browser-connection issue you use may be annoying, no registration required. I repeat that the user should choose, there are even payment options, that option is viable for the ANN.

[PrimeNumber7]

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

3: Exempt imgur links from the image proxy so they all just work. But this has privacy implications, since imgur will see forum users' IPs. Also, imgur has apparently banned a lot of Tor exit nodes etc. as well, so imgur images won't work for everyone.

This appears to be somewhat of a moot point, because it looks like the underlying issue has resolved itself.

If something similar pops up in the future, I think a good first step would be to reach out to the image hosting site in question to see if they can provide a solution that doesn’t compromise privacy. Perhaps they would be willing to whitelist the forums image proxy.

If the above fails, I think forum members should have the individual option to choose between 2 and 3, with 2 being the default and for guests. If someone understands the privacy implications and is willing to allow Imgur to know their IP address is associated with someone who accesses the forum, they can have reduced privacy in exchange for being able to see the original images.

There are many forum members who very much value their privacy and they likely don’t want Imgur knowing that their IP address accessed the forum.

[LoyceV]

to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

This also means old posts can no longer be edited without replacing the image links (I just tested it).

[rat03gopoh]

I've been switching from imgur to imgbb for quite a while due to better settings, no failures whatsoever so far. If I had to vote for image hosting other than talkimg, I'd go with imgbb. The only annoying thing is that maybe you'll see ad pop ups after several page switches.

[skarais]

I've been switching from imgur to imgbb for quite a while due to better settings, no failures whatsoever so far. If I had to vote for image hosting other than talkimg, I'd go with imgbb. The only annoying thing is that maybe you'll see ad pop ups after several page switches.

Apart from imgur, I also used imgbb for a long time. So far I haven't had much trouble with ads as it only takes me a minimum of 1 minute to upload the image and get the link, but I think TalkImg is also good recommendation. I haven't tried TalkImg on many occasions but will probably give it a go since the service seems to be special-made for bitcointalk users.

Imgbb and TalkImg are fine.

[IIrik11]

i vote for 'do nothing'

seriously, i don't think it is that big of a problem.

people can go back to their posts and change links to other image-hosting services..

if they desire to do so.. but no one even read old posts.

i know im nobody and my opinion doesn't count..

 but i think doing nothing is the best solution here.

[LoyceV]

no one even read old posts.

You couldn't be more wrong. See this 2015-post for instance, which has 53 imgur images. Preserving Bitcointalk history is needed.

[RickDeckard]

i vote for 'do nothing'

seriously, i don't think it is that big of a problem.

people can go back to their posts and change links to other image-hosting services..

The main problem is that there is a large % of good threads with a trove of information from users that, for numerous reasons, aren't active anymore (and may never be).

if they desire to do so.. but no one even read old posts.

Being able to revisit some threads with excellent discussions regarding certain topics either in the beginning of Bitcoin development or recently, is something that has brought me joy and knowledge that I wouldn't be able to achieve somewhere else. More specifically, on the top of my mind, I have this image of myself pursuing DannyHamilton replies just for the sheer reason that his way of talking and explaining Bitcoin was so concise and resourceful, something that for sure helped me grasp my (still limited) knowledge regarding Bitcoin (this also applies to a number of other users as well).
Like with everything that has happened with Humanity (and has brought us to this precise moment), we should always thrive to preserve the best that we can for future generations, especially a place that was the second birthplace of Bitcoin (I'm considering the cryptography mailing list[1] to be the "navel of Bitcoin").

i know im nobody and my opinion doesn't count..

You shouldn't think like that. Every opinion counts, each with their advantages and disadvantages, but if you don't share yours, you'll never know what people think of it  .
[1]http://satoshinakamoto.me/source/cryptography-mail-list/?order=asc
[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navel_of_the_World_(disambiguation)

[theymos]

to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

This also means old posts can no longer be edited without replacing the image links (I just tested it).

It's based on the message ID. Posts before roughly when I posted that can be edited without updating the imgur links.

[LoyceV]

It's based on the message ID. Posts before roughly when I posted that can be edited without updating the imgur links.

Maybe I accidentally used quote instead of edit when I got this error. I can't reproduce it anymore, so all good

[shahzadafzal]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy. I didn't change anything on the forum's end, so imgur must've loosened up their limits. I guess it's not necessary to convert img images into links as long as imgur keeps working. But to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

Ahh big relief…!!!

Maybe reporting the issue to Imgur worked (I also submitted three different tickets) and they allowed bitcointalk

Yes it’s no longer necessary to convert img tags to links.

I also think since it’s working “doing nothing” is much better option. We shouldn’t prevent imgur links, since we don’t know if imgur or imgbb or any other service will stop working again. Lets suppose imgur keeps working but imgbb stops then what?

So much simpler solution is “doing nothing”, it’s working

I'd like to create a page which recommends services for hosting forum images, and mention this in the error message you get when you try to use imgur. Other than TalkImg, which ones are good?

I don’t think bitcointalk should be recommending any of image hosting service, unless it’s owned by bitcointalk, taking over talkimg is an option. But recommending any other service is not an ideal move.

[logfiles]

I personally use vgy.me[1] because I like their privacy statement[2] and never had problems with them (so far) but that mostly has to due with them also not having the same reach as imgur

vgy.me is also pretty fucked.

I tried using it a few days back after the Imgur chaos, but had the image showed up a proxy error. Turns out, the image had even been deleted. Not sure why. Also, I think vgy.me is one of those service that will disappear overnight due to It's less popularity. Now, you don't want your 5 years of screenshots disappearing overnight.

[IIrik11]

no one even read old posts.

You couldn't be more wrong. See this 2015-post for instance, which has 53 imgur images. Preserving Bitcointalk history is needed.

see u know that this post exists, which is why u mentioned it.

but most people don't know it exists and will never look for it.

and one google search will bring u 100s of topics on the subject and videos.

btw, i was able to see all the images in that thread.

imgur is banning porn and images not linked to any account..

so they must have changed some things..

which caused this temporary glitch which is now over i think.

[Sarah Azhari]

I vote No.1, because the staff will work hard to Turn imgur images into links

and I saw other forum members saying that postimages.org is a good alternative.

I used postimages.org, but sometimes I got the error when uploading the image, and must turn off my VPN to resolve it.

and when I won't turn off my VPN I will use freeimage.host, it worked fine in all situations.

[RickDeckard]

I personally use vgy.me[1] because I like their privacy statement[2] and never had problems with them (so far) but that mostly has to due with them also not having the same reach as imgur

vgy.me is also pretty fucked.

I tried using it a few days back after the Imgur chaos, but had the image showed up a proxy error. Turns out, the image had even been deleted. Not sure why. Also, I think vgy.me is one of those service that will disappear overnight due to It's less popularity. Now, you don't want your 5 years of screenshots disappearing overnight.

Really? That is odd, I never had any problem with vgy.me so far, but I also agree with you on the popularity side - Given the service relevance, one cannot know for how long their service will be up.

The problem with all image hosting solutions is that their are not very privacy friendly and that is understandable considering the type of service they offer vs no costs usually involved. Albeit I usually don't use it, I have read good things about imgbox[1].
[1]https://imgbox.com

[smyslov]

I vote No.1, because the staff will work hard to Turn imgur images into links

and I saw other forum members saying that postimages.org is a good alternative.

I used postimages.org, but sometimes I got the error when uploading the image, and must turn off my VPN to resolve it.

and when I won't turn off my VPN I will use freeimage.host, it worked fine in all situations.

Postingimages is not good they are not 100% reliable they have downtime too there was a time when I want to upload images but I'm getting a lot of errors they are off when it comes to an image hosting they should have 100% uptime because their service is all about keeping the images online I check TALKIMG and it's good the operator is very active here and he can address all concern about his image sharing site, so I prefer and recommend TALKIMG.

[yhiaali3]

I check TALKIMG and it's good the operator is very active here and he can address all concern about his image sharing site, so I prefer and recommend TALKIMG.

Yes me too, I tried it it works very well and easy to use.

I got rid of imgur after trying TALKIMG and it is now my favorite because of its ease of use and many other features such as: a fast site with almost no ads, images upload very quickly, and the ability to easily create and copy image code.

Therefore, I recommend everyone to go to TALKIMG.

[SamReomo]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

I think the best solution for those broken images is the option no 2, because if the links of those images are available then things will be easy for the posters, and a kind of notification should be sent to all the users whose links are broken and the notification should also take them to the posts where the images are broken. That way the poster will be able to update the image to a new host like TalkImg.com to fix the mess created by imgur.

I think it will also be helpful for other users because even if the original poster fails to update his/her links, the users will still be able to access the images at imgur by clicking on the links. Because of the imgur problem the images are mostly down right now and we are unable to view the URL of the images because they are embedded as images. The availability of the links can be very useful in such times.

Another solution to such problem is to have both options of clickable links and embedded images. The links should be placed below the embedded images so users can easily access the links and view the images on imgur. I think with this solution the users will be happy because they can view the images and even if the images aren't working as embeddings then still they can click the link of the images. The link should be clickable otherwise many users aren't so good at copy/pasting of the links.

[Woodie]

Better than seeing that image proxy message for those broken links, I think option 2 of turning unseen image to link is best option imo.

Better yet ,if imgur as a hosting service is the culprit out of the many we have out there...I think we should be moving away from these guys to avoid all this and maybe put a sticker of other available free hosting services that can be recommended for long term use.

[Voted:2]

[LoyceV]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy.

That didn't last long, it's broken again

[RickDeckard]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy.

That didn't last long, it's broken again

It's even worse when we look to threads such as the 10th anniversary art contest[1]. It's just weird to see people giving feedback against endless pages of Imgur broken links in such a memorable thread...
[1]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5193860.0

[PrimeNumber7]

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy.

That didn't last long, it's broken again

The most appropriate first step is to reach out to imgur to see if they can provide some kind of solution.

It looks like imgur has an api, but it doesn't look like the API can retrieve images currently. Perhaps they may be willing to add such functionality.

[TryNinja]

It looks like imgur has an api, but it doesn't look like the API can retrieve images currently. Perhaps they may be willing to add such functionality.

The link of the image IS the image, it doesn't make sense to have an "API" for that. The only solution is imgur flexibilizing rate limiting (and that's not even a complete solution, since the forum usage can outgrow the limit) or whitelisting the forum's proxy IP. I don't think either are going to happen.

As always, if anyone hasn't used it yet: [Script] Imgur to TalkImg - automatically fix your broken images

[LoyceV]

It looks like imgur has an api, but it doesn't look like the API can retrieve images currently. Perhaps they may be willing to add such functionality.

If they add it as a paid feature, I don't think the forum should go down that road. It would set a precendent for other image hosts to do the same.

[Cryptomultiplier]

There are a lot of broken imgur links. How do you think this should be resolved? I've come up with these possible solutions:

2: Make it so that all past imgur embedded images show up as a clickable link instead of as an embedded image, as if the poster had just posted the imgur link instead of using the [img] tag. I could also maybe make it so that if you click the link, it will JavaScript-expand into an embedded image (using the specified width etc.) without going through the image proxy.

I think the best solution for those broken images is the option no 2, because if the links of those images are available then things will be easy for the posters, and a kind of notification should be sent to all the users whose links are broken and the notification should also take them to the posts where the images are broken. That way the poster will be able to update the image to a new host like TalkImg.com to fix the mess created by imgur.

I think it will also be helpful for other users because even if the original poster fails to update his/her links, the users will still be able to access the images at imgur by clicking on the links. Because of the imgur problem the images are mostly down right now and we are unable to view the URL of the images because they are embedded as images. The availability of the links can be very useful in such times.

Another solution to such problem is to have both options of clickable links and embedded images. The links should be placed below the embedded images so users can easily access the links and view the images on imgur. I think with this solution the users will be happy because they can view the images and even if the images aren't working as embeddings then still they can click the link of the images. The link should be clickable otherwise many users aren't so good at copy/pasting of the links.

Links should absolutely be way better than having broken images that can't be viewed anyways. Although one would have to visit the link to view image, it would be one way to ease the stress right now, until something is done to rectify the imgur issue.

[Cricktor]

To me option 4 is best and what I chose. I never used imgur, usually ImgBB, but will switch to talkimg as it sounds good from other user's comments and is more under control of people here. I don't see much of a point to try to stick to imgur, make a clean cut to those suckers. They f***ed up once or more and will likely keep up being unreliable. No, thanks!

[ibminer]

I still think some form of DIY is probably the only good long-term solution for the forum, then again I'm a DIY kinda guy in general, so maybe I'm biased.

I'd expect most image hosts to eventually start deleting images, or they just go belly up for one reason or another, get sold to another company with new policies, etc.

Relying on any 3rd party image hosts will eventually lead to missing images when something happens users may not have time to react to, or just that users may not be active during the time they have to react.

Links should absolutely be way better than having broken images that can't be viewed anyways. Although one would have to visit the link to view image, it would be one way to ease the stress right now, until something is done to rectify the imgur issue.

It depends on the image, if a host deletes the image, Bitcointalk's invalid image would be better then a broken link, for SEO.

If the image still exists on the host, the link would be better as it would not hurt SEO and would have a valid link out to an image that works.

That said, I think replacing images with links takes away from the flow of certain threads and, overall, hurt them... especially threads like the art contest, tutorials, and others.

[JollyGood]

Given that imgur seems to be accesible again (for the time being at least) but for the images that now or in future are no longer accessible I think using Option #2 would be a way to simply get it over and done with and let the past be the past.

If imgur will provide an error for future uploads it puts the onus of the member to select an image hosting website which should serve the purpose and also keep a back up of all images uplaoded from now onwards.

It looks like imgur is no longer blocking the image proxy. I didn't change anything on the forum's end, so imgur must've loosened up their limits. I guess it's not necessary to convert img images into links as long as imgur keeps working. But to prevent this from happening again, you'll get an error if you try to embed imgur images in posts from now on.

[shahzadafzal]

Given that imgur seems to be accesible again (for the time being at least) but for the images that now or in future are no longer accessible I think using Option #2 would be a way to simply get it over and done with and let the past be the past.

Nope it's not working... it was working for some time but it's down again for last few days.

As per the current poll stats 54.3% votes already opted for option 2.

But like someone pointed earlier we also have to think which one hurts more in terms of SEO and user experience broken image or broken link?

[joker_josue]

Given that imgur seems to be accesible again (for the time being at least) but for the images that now or in future are no longer accessible I think using Option #2 would be a way to simply get it over and done with and let the past be the past.

I start to think they created a bandwidth control system for each site. That is, when a certain site reaches a certain bandwidth, they block the site for a number of days, until the counter is reset. Perhaps they want to implement a system so that sites pay to use their bandwidth.

This is just my theory. Because I find it strange, for a few days the images work and then they stop working for a while, then they work again. I don't see them manually turning on/off access to Bitcointalk. But it's just a theory, it could be wrong.

[LoyceV]

Given that imgur seems to be accesible again

It's not

[JollyGood]

Nope it's not working... it was working for some time but it's down again for last few days.

Oh no here we go again. If it has failed to supply images again then rendering members unable to upload to imgur is the correct step forward taken by theymos.

I start to think they created a bandwidth control system for each site. That is, when a certain site reaches a certain bandwidth, they block the site for a number of days, until the counter is reset. Perhaps they want to implement a system so that sites pay to use their bandwidth.

Stranger things have occurred in the past, I would not be surprised if your theory was correct and to a degree from their hosting perspective it might be a strategy that keeps them rotating their biggest audience.

Given that imgur seems to be accesible again

It's not

This whole imgur images are available or not on issue will probably be resolved by theymos in the coming days. Option #2 will handle the images-not-found issue with links and as for future images, there will have be to be other hosting solutions. Apart from some learning issues I cannot recall ever having a problem with Postimages

[PowerGlove]

I think a sensible way to respond to the Imgur issue would be for theymos to ask LoyceV and joker_josue to come up with a CSV file of TalkImg "fallback" links (i.e. old Imgur link -> new TalkImg link), and then modify the image proxy to make use of that file (maybe by importing it into a SQLite database, or loading it into a hash table at startup, or something).

That way, everything (mostly; banning future Imgur links was a good move) stays the same (image proxy still shielding IP addresses, images stay Tor-friendly, etc.) and the problem gets fixed transparently (and Imgur can then set itself on fire, for all we care). Also lays the technical foundation for the next time something like this happens.

Just my 2 sats.

[NotATether]

I think a sensible way to respond to the Imgur issue would be for theymos to ask LoyceV and joker_josue to come up with a CSV file of TalkImg "fallback" links (i.e. old Imgur link -> new TalkImg link), and then modify the image proxy to make use of that file (maybe by importing it into a SQLite database, or loading it into a hash table at startup, or something).

That way, everything (mostly; banning future Imgur links was a good move) stays the same (image proxy still shielding IP addresses, images stay Tor-friendly, etc.) and the problem gets fixed transparently (and Imgur can then set itself on fire, for all we care). Also lays the technical foundation for the next time something like this happens.

Just my 2 sats.

A CSV file or SQLite database won't do, it's gotta be a dedicated database server which can scale if Bitcointalk and consequentially the image proxy server is hammered with incoming requests.

Also if we are going to rely on TalkImg as a backbone, I still believe that the hosting costs should be subsidized by the forum treasury if required for network capacity to be met.

[PowerGlove]

A CSV file or SQLite database won't do, it's gotta be a dedicated database server which can scale if Bitcointalk and consequentially the image proxy server is hammered with incoming requests.

This is not my first rodeo NAT, I've written a decent amount of performance-critical software in my time. I wouldn't have suggested something that I didn't have first-hand experience with, so trust me when I say that slurping up a text file into a hash table at startup or relying on SQLite (either file-backed or :memory: style) will scale just fine for this particular problem.

[joker_josue]

I think a sensible way to respond to the Imgur issue would be for theymos to ask LoyceV and joker_josue to come up with a CSV file of TalkImg "fallback" links (i.e. old Imgur link -> new TalkImg link), and then modify the image proxy to make use of that file (maybe by importing it into a SQLite database, or loading it into a hash table at startup, or something).

A CSV file or SQLite database won't do, it's gotta be a dedicated database server which can scale if Bitcointalk and consequentially the image proxy server is hammered with incoming requests.

His suggestion, from what I understand is the proxy to redirect a link to another link.
And in that case, the proxy just has to know that the link X happens to point to Y. This could be a solution that would avoid messing with the DB of forum posts.


@LoyceV
I know you made a backup of all the images linked on the site, which made a total of 800k.

But, can you tell me how many images are from imgur?

[LoyceV]

I think a sensible way to respond to the Imgur issue would be for theymos to ask LoyceV and joker_josue to come up with a CSV file of TalkImg "fallback" links (i.e. old Imgur link -> new TalkImg link)

If it were up to me, that would be as easy as replacing "m.imgur.com" by "m.talkimg.com". My filesystem seems to perform just fine with 800k images in one directory.

@LoyceV
I know you made a backup of all the images linked on the site, which made a total of 800k.

But, can you tell me how many images are from imgur?

All of them are from imgur I'm also trying to download all other images, but it gets stuck on (failing) timeouts for many different websites.

[joker_josue]

If it were up to me, that would be as easy as replacing "m.imgur.com" by "m.talkimg.com". My filesystem seems to perform just fine with 800k images in one directory.

OK. I thought it was all the pictures on the forum.
And in terms of bandwidth, how do you handle that?

[LoyceV]

And in terms of bandwidth, how do you handle that?

I don't: I don't want to have to deal with possible copyright issues
Maybe theymos can share how much bandwidth the image proxy consumes in total.

[joker_josue]

And in terms of bandwidth, how do you handle that?

I don't: I don't want to have to deal with possible copyright issues
Maybe theymos can share how much bandwidth the image proxy consumes in total.

You can look at my data to get an idea. 

I don't mind receiving the images, but at the moment I can't receive 800k all at once. We had to be selective. 

[LoyceV]

You can look at my data to get an idea.  

That's only recent images, I'm curious how often old images are downloaded too.

I don't mind receiving the images, but at the moment I can't receive 800k all at once. We had to be selective.  

Unfortunately, being selective doesn't work to replace all links.

[joker_josue]

I don't mind receiving the images, but at the moment I can't receive 800k all at once. We had to be selective.  

Unfortunately, being selective doesn't work to replace all links.

I know! Nor is it because of space or bandwidth. It's because of the number of files to be loaded.

I've been thinking about how I can help with that.

[PrimeNumber7]

It looks like imgur has an api, but it doesn't look like the API can retrieve images currently. Perhaps they may be willing to add such functionality.

If they add it as a paid feature, I don't think the forum should go down that road. It would set a precendent for other image hosts to do the same.

I disagree. Imgur is providing a service (hosting images), and deserves to earn a fair profit. It would cost money for the forum to host images on its own infrastructure, and as long as the cost to use imgur (and all other image hosting sites) is less than the cost of self-hosting, it will make sense to pay.

I presume that imgur usually makes its money from ads when people access images on its imgur site (not the raw image that is accessed via the forum image proxy). I presume that the image proxy complicates various metrics that imgur uses.

[LoyceMobile]

I don't mind receiving the images, but at the moment I can't receive 800k all at once. We had to be selective.  

Unfortunately, being selective doesn't work to replace all links.

I know! Nor is it because of space or bandwidth. It's because of the number of files to be loaded.

I've been thinking about how I can help with that.

If you have the space, why would the number of pictures be a problem? Just disable directory view in your webserver and it should just be able to handle it.

[joker_josue]

If you have the space, why would the number of pictures be a problem? Just disable directory view in your webserver and it should just be able to handle it.

But I have no problems with space or bandwidth. The limit is on the number of files I can have on the server. Right now I can have around 600k files, a very comfortable number for the next months/years. You know that hosting services talk about unlimited, but there is always some kind of limit. I preferred to have unlimited disk space and bandwidth.

So entering 800k files now would require a new server upgrade. And I didn't want to do that now. But, I'm checking several options that can make everything viable, without having to do a new upgrade. Therefore, what I ask now is patience to be able to support this type of action. I am studying what I can do to accommodate these images.

[LoyceV]

Right now I can have around 600k files, a very comfortable number for the next months/years.

I see. That's tiny
For comparison: a "normal" filesystem on a 1 TB disk has 58 million inodes (which means it could handle that many small files).

You know that hosting services talk about unlimited, but there is always some kind of limit. I preferred to have unlimited disk space and bandwidth.

I learned a long time ago to stay away from "unlimited". I prefer to know what I get.

So entering 800k files now would require a new server upgrade. And I didn't want to do that now. But, I'm checking several options that can make everything viable, without having to do a new upgrade. Therefore, what I ask now is patience to be able to support this type of action. I am studying what I can do to accommodate these images.

I used to use shared hosting, until my last one disappeared. Since then, I've become much more comfortable with VPS servers, which in general give better specs for money, but don't come with a pre-installed selection of scripts.

[ibminer]

It sounds like we're piping a bunch of traffic through 1 IP, which might create problems from any site or image host out there, but maybe depending on the level of traffic we get up to on the forum?

Without exceptions, I'd imagine firewalls or other security devices out there potentially interpreting this activity as a weak DoS attempt from 1 IP, or just odd/malicious traffic of some sort which is taking enough resources to get blocked.

Maybe even just a curious IT guy browsing logs and seeing a shit load of unusual traffic from 1 IP and blocking it?   I've done this plenty in my world, but I obviously don't run any image hosts, so I'm not sure how they (or their providers) would interpret or handle this any differently.

[joker_josue]

I see. That's tiny

It's not that tiny, for the service in question. Especially at this early stage.
You have gathered 800k from a hosting, let's imagine that there are more than 800k together with the other services. Which indicates 1600k images listed from the forum. Let's round it up to 2000k images.
This is a large number, but it was gathered over 13 years, which averages out to 150k images per year. Let's round it up to 200k images per year.
That means I can maintain these conditions for the next 2-3 years. It will be time when I'm planning to do a new upgrade.

But, as I said, I'm evaluating several possibilities, we'll see what I get. 

I used to use shared hosting, until my last one disappeared. Since then, I've become much more comfortable with VPS servers, which in general give better specs for money, but don't come with a pre-installed selection of scripts.

I'm using one of the biggest hosting services on the market. Without any intermediary company, that is I can choose: shared server; vps; or dedicated server.
Therefore, this possibility is more remote.

But even a VPS has file limits. The service you use goes up to 58,000,000!? 

[dkbit98]

It's not that tiny, for the service in question. Especially at this early stage.
You have gathered 800k from a hosting, let's imagine that there are more than 800k together with the other services. Which indicates 1600k images listed from the forum. Let's round it up to 2000k images.

It's totally unrealistic to think TalkImg can all of the sudden replace all Imgur images after just few weeks of existence  
In theory everything sounds great, just replace the links and everything will work perfectly, but nobody is financially helping this project and thinking about server costs.
Maybe it's better to replace all old Imgur images with Imgbb or Postimages for now, and later we an think about alternative slow moving to TalkImg.

[Synchronice]

You know that hosting services talk about unlimited, but there is always some kind of limit. I preferred to have unlimited disk space and bandwidth.

I remember the time when there was a boom of unlimited hosting ads from companies like Hostgator, iPage, Bluehost and I wanted to make a file sharing website, similar to wetransfer and I was always receiving warning from these hosting companies that I shouldn't upload or store high size (500MB and higher) files on my website and when I was asking them then why it's called unlimited, they were telling me that it was marked as unlimited because most businesses upload some kilobytes and they don't limit them, etc. They were just saying it's unlimited while it was actually almost as limited as free web hosting. That's why I always prefer dedicated server but in your case, AWS S3 is really the most cost-effective option.
Btw as far as I know, digitalocean doesn't have inodes limitation.

I see. That's tiny

It's not that tiny, for the service in question. Especially at this early stage.
You have gathered 800k from a hosting, let's imagine that there are more than 800k together with the other services. Which indicates 1600k images listed from the forum. Let's round it up to 2000k images.
This is a large number, but it was gathered over 13 years, which averages out to 150k images per year. Let's round it up to 200k images per year.
That means I can maintain these conditions for the next 2-3 years. It will be time when I'm planning to do a new upgrade.

But, as I said, I'm evaluating several possibilities, we'll see what I get. 

How is the demand on your service? Is it increasing? Or stabilizing? Or decreasing since imgur links aren't broken anymore?

[LoyceV]

You have gathered 800k from a hosting, let's imagine that there are more than 800k together with the other services. Which indicates 1600k images listed from the forum. Let's round it up to 2000k images.

I count about 2.5 million image links in my data collection. Some of those are dead already, so your estimate is close enough.

But even a VPS has file limits. The service you use goes up to 58,000,000!? 

The "58 million" is the number of inodes on a 1 TB disk. Most files aren't that small, so the number of images you can fit in 1 TB will be significantly lower. So in most cases, the number of files shouldn't be a problem before you run out of diskspace.

AWS S3 is really the most cost-effective option.

I did a quick price check:

First 50 TB / Month: $0.023 per GB

AWS is very reliable, but quite expensive on bandwidth. 10 TB doesn't sound unrealistic, and would cost $230 per month. Contabo (I think TryNinja still uses this) gets you 32 TB bandwidth for €17.49 per month. And unlike AWS, that includes the rest of the server too. But it probably won't reach the same very high uptime AWS has.

[joker_josue]

hat's why I always prefer dedicated server but in your case, AWS S3 is really the most cost-effective option.
~~
How is the demand on your service? Is it increasing? Or stabilizing? Or decreasing since imgur links aren't broken anymore?

No, it is not very economical, because bandwidth is very expensive.
In this type of service, the focus is not so much on disk space, but on bandwidth.

The "58 million" is the number of inodes on a 1 TB disk. Most files aren't that small, so the number of images you can fit in 1 TB will be significantly lower. So in most cases, the number of files shouldn't be a problem before you run out of diskspace.

I think I didn't explain it well. I can have 500 files with 1TB on the server, no problem. As I said, I have neither space nor bandwidth concerns at this time.

Either way, thanks for your suggestion, which I'll explore.

[Synchronice]

AWS S3 is really the most cost-effective option.

I did a quick price check:

First 50 TB / Month: $0.023 per GB

AWS is very reliable, but quite expensive on bandwidth. 10 TB doesn't sound unrealistic, and would cost $230 per month. Contabo (I think TryNinja still uses this) gets you 32 TB bandwidth for €17.49 per month. And unlike AWS, that includes the rest of the server too. But it probably won't reach the same very high uptime AWS has.

You are right, I completely ignored that they make money from bandwidth. Btw, how big can be the demand on bandwidth in our case? I mean, this image hosting is dedicated for this forum, one will rarely use it outside of bitalk, so, not every uploaded image will waste bandwidth.
Btw what about Hetzner? It's in Europe (Germany or Finland) and is pretty cheap. I can't swear but I'm sure it's one of the cheapest option out there, it's not as cheap as Contabo but performs way better. Probably what makes AWS more attractive for joker_josue is probably the pay-as-you approach payment model.

No, it is not very economical, because bandwidth is very expensive.
In this type of service, the focus is not so much on disk space, but on bandwidth.

If it's not a secret, I'll ask this question again: How is the demand on your service? Is it increasing? Or stabilizing? Or decreasing since imgur links aren't broken anymore?

[PrimeNumber7]

AWS S3 is really the most cost-effective option.

I did a quick price check:

First 50 TB / Month: $0.023 per GB

AWS is very reliable, but quite expensive on bandwidth. 10 TB doesn't sound unrealistic, and would cost $230 per month. Contabo (I think TryNinja still uses this) gets you 32 TB bandwidth for €17.49 per month. And unlike AWS, that includes the rest of the server too. But it probably won't reach the same very high uptime AWS has.

You are right, I completely ignored that they make money from bandwidth. Btw, how big can be the demand on bandwidth in our case? I mean, this image hosting is dedicated for this forum, one will rarely use it outside of bitalk, so, not every uploaded image will waste bandwidth.
Btw what about Hetzner? It's in Europe (Germany or Finland) and is pretty cheap. I can't swear but I'm sure it's one of the cheapest option out there, it's not as cheap as Contabo but performs way better. Probably what makes AWS more attractive for joker_josue is probably the pay-as-you approach payment model.

No, it is not very economical, because bandwidth is very expensive.
In this type of service, the focus is not so much on disk space, but on bandwidth.

If it's not a secret, I'll ask this question again: How is the demand on your service? Is it increasing? Or stabilizing? Or decreasing since imgur links aren't broken anymore?

If the image proxy keeps served images cached for a period of time, bandwidth probably won’t be an issue. But if the image proxy queries the storage bucket every time someone accesses the image, egress charges will quickly add up. For example, an attacker/troll could potentially add the same image to a single post 1000 times, and subsequently access the post 1000 times — this would result in the same image being accessed a million times.

[joker_josue]

If it's not a secret, I'll ask this question again: How is the demand on your service? Is it increasing? Or stabilizing? Or decreasing since imgur links aren't broken anymore?

It has such a constant freshness, about 300 images a day.
And when someone uses the script to migrate the images, the growth increases that day.
As I mentioned, if the current pace is maintained, it will be very pleasant.

[LoyceV]

If the image proxy keeps served images cached for a period of time, bandwidth probably won’t be an issue. But if the image proxy queries the storage bucket every time someone accesses the image, egress charges will quickly add up.

Caching is up to the browser, so it's a per-user thing:

The image proxy isn't a caching proxy. Proxied images are never saved to disk, and only small chunks of images are stored in memory at any one time. The proxy does work with client-side caching (it passes on appropriate cache-related headers, etc.), so you may cache images.

[TryNinja]

Contabo (I think TryNinja still uses this) gets you 32 TB bandwidth for €17.49 per month. And unlike AWS, that includes the rest of the server too. But it probably won't reach the same very high uptime AWS has.

I do, and they stopped scheduling random maintance to my server (always accompanied with some downtime) so I have no complains.

[ibminer]

Caching is up to the browser, so it's a per-user thing:

The image proxy isn't a caching proxy. Proxied images are never saved to disk, and only small chunks of images are stored in memory at any one time. The proxy does work with client-side caching (it passes on appropriate cache-related headers, etc.), so you may cache images.

Also in that post:

Increasing fault-tolerance is a long-term goal, but (re)creating a truly decentralized and uncensorable forum is outside of bitcointalk.org's scope.

Now I don't really believe theymos was specifically talking about the image proxy or images here, but..
Should the preservation of posted images be part of the fault-tolerance goals of the forum?  Does the removal of an image present a fault in the context of a thread/post?

As an example, let's look at the reference thread of a flag theymos created.

Without the images, as it stands now, does the flag still hold water?? or.. at least as much as it does with images?  (I'm sure there are better examples but I'm just being dramatic )


 

[Mate2237]

The number two is the best option for me because linking the embedded image with link is the best option for me. And another thing again, till now my images uploaded before the imgur drama is still invalid. Because for me to go back and upload those pictures again is not easy and another thing is that I have lost all those images. So there is no way again for me to redo all over. I tried the TryNinja image recovery method but it could not work for me. So I just gave it for some times.

[PrimeNumber7]

If the image proxy keeps served images cached for a period of time, bandwidth probably won’t be an issue. But if the image proxy queries the storage bucket every time someone accesses the image, egress charges will quickly add up.

Caching is up to the browser, so it's a per-user thing:

The image proxy isn't a caching proxy. Proxied images are never saved to disk, and only small chunks of images are stored in memory at any one time. The proxy does work with client-side caching (it passes on appropriate cache-related headers, etc.), so you may cache images.

I suspect that is the underlying root cause of the imgur problems. If there is an image in a particular thread, the image proxy server may be asking for imgur to serve the same image multiple times over a short time if there is a conversation among several people. Replying to a post with an image may result in the same person causing the image proxy server to call the image three times, and this would not count the times the person reads a thread, but does not reply.

Imgur (in the past) uses AWS, so they are paying the quoted prices for serving images to the forum image proxy. Serving only the image means imgur doesn't get any ad revenue from the forum.

Someone is going to have to pay to get images from wherever they are stored to forum users. It doesn't look like imgur is wanting to pay for this anymore.

[PowerGlove]

I know! Nor is it because of space or bandwidth. It's because of the number of files to be loaded.

But I have no problems with space or bandwidth. The limit is on the number of files I can have on the server.

As I said, I have neither space nor bandwidth concerns at this time.

If bandwidth and space are not a problem for you, and you're only trying to work around an artificial limit on the number of files that your hosting allows, then there are some ways around that...

You could store the images (just the Imgur ones) as BLOBs in a database table, or pack them into a tar-like file format. Both of those approaches will require serving those images from behind a script (either to do a database lookup, or to seek to a specific offset and then read from the amalgamated file), but having them on their own kind of URL (distinct from other TalkImg images) actually makes a lot of sense. That way, my earlier idea of modifying the image proxy to use a "substitutions table" simplifies to just mechanically translating the links on the fly (e.g. https://i.imgur.com/7wqVXzD.png -> https://talkimg.com/imgur.php?id=7wqVXzD, or something like that).

Actually, thinking about this more carefully, why even do this through TalkImg at all? Maybe it makes more sense to set up some dedicated hosting to serve those images without entangling them with TalkImg? I'm not sure who wants that challenge, but working on the problem in isolation will probably lower (and mostly fix) the costs, which might make it easier to find financial support.

[LoyceV]

Actually, thinking about this more carefully, why even do this through TalkImg at all? Maybe it makes more sense to set up some dedicated hosting to serve those images without entangling them with TalkImg? I'm not sure who wants that challenge, but working on the problem in isolation will probably lower (and mostly fix) the costs, which might make it easier to find financial support.

A subdomain of talkimg could be on another webhost (that keeps the DNS responsibility in one place), say the ".m" that imgur uses most of the time. A €5.99/month or double this $58.88/year budget webhost will (probably) be enough, and since the amount of storage if fixed I expect hosting costs to go further down in the future.
The only reason I'm not doing this myself is because I don't want to deal with copyright takedown requests.

[joker_josue]

A subdomain of talkimg could be on another webhost (that keeps the DNS responsibility in one place), say the ".m" that imgur uses most of the time. A €5.99/month or double this $58.88/year budget webhost will (probably) be enough, and since the amount of storage if fixed I expect hosting costs to go further down in the future.
The only reason I'm not doing this myself is because I don't want to deal with copyright takedown requests.

And that's exactly what I'm thinking of doing. I just need to reorganize and check which is the best option for everything to work correctly. 

Tell me something (you thought you already said it, but remember), how much does that 800k occupy?

[LoyceV]

Tell me something (you thought you already said it, but remember), how much does that 800k occupy?

It's 143 GB. It could have some cleaning, like the 30k images that only say "removed", but I hardlinked all duplicates to the same file already, so it doesn't take much diskspace.

[Timelord2067]

More than a week has gone past without a single vote or comment having been made, so it's time to call it for option two

2: Turn imgur images into links    - 51 (54.8%)

Time to lock the thread as there are other threads which canvas the topics being discussed here.

[OgNasty]

More than a week has gone past without a single vote or comment having been made, so it's time to call it for option two

2: Turn imgur images into links    - 51 (54.8%)

Time to lock the thread as there are other threads which canvas the topics being discussed here.

I think that is probably the best solution even if it isn't the one I voted for.  Mostly, I don't want to download any software and I don't think it makes sense for end users to do anything. The amount of man hours that would be wasted by so many people each having to individually solve this issue would be a shocking waste of time.  Sure, having the images just transferred to talkimg would be the best solution for end users, but it would require trusting another service not to do the same thing as imgur.  Replacing with links seems to be the least time consuming solution that would also not add additional points of failure.  I'll be glad when it's done.

[Timelord2067]

The benefit I see with talkimg.com is that it was created by an active user of the Forum ( joker_josue ) specifically for the Forum to use and is relying on what I would call meager donations to maintain the website, but is not asking for any other payment in kind for their services to actually run the site.  Already there is an "unofficial" support person ( TryNinja ) who created a script to assist port images URL's in posts.  While that might not be everyone's cup of tea trusting scripts it's help which again has been done without being asked, or paid for.

Kudos to both I say.

[JeromeTash]

I have a question regarding adding Imgur links in new posts. I believe this was disabled, as one will get an error stating that the imgur links are no longer supported in new posts when they try to create a post containing the links.

So how come some members are still able to add imgur links in their posts, like the OP in this post?

[ibminer]

So how come some members are still able to add imgur links in their posts, like the OP in this post?

They are not able to embed an imgur image in a post, embedded images use the image proxy. But you can still post the link for the image itself. Clicking the link itself does not use the image proxy and goes directly to imgur.

[NotATether]

More than a week has gone past without a single vote or comment having been made, so it's time to call it for option two

2: Turn imgur images into links    - 51 (54.8%)

Time to lock the thread as there are other threads which canvas the topics being discussed here.

I think that is probably the best solution even if it isn't the one I voted for.  Mostly, I don't want to download any software and I don't think it makes sense for end users to do anything. The amount of man hours that would be wasted by so many people each having to individually solve this issue would be a shocking waste of time.  Sure, having the images just transferred to talkimg would be the best solution for end users, but it would require trusting another service not to do the same thing as imgur.  Replacing with links seems to be the least time consuming solution that would also not add additional points of failure.  I'll be glad when it's done.

I think it's the best solution. The only problem I can think of is that Imgur hijacks the direct links on mobile browsers to take you to their homepage (on iOS and Android I believe, though at least in Android you have the possibility of using a browser that bypasses the Imgur pages UI).

[aoluain]

More than a week has gone past without a single vote or comment having been made, so it's time to call it for option two

2: Turn imgur images into links    - 51 (54.8%)

Time to lock the thread as there are other threads which canvas the topics being discussed here.

I think that is probably the best solution even if it isn't the one I voted for.  Mostly, I don't want to download any software and I don't think it makes sense for end users to do anything. The amount of man hours that would be wasted by so many people each having to individually solve this issue would be a shocking waste of time.  Sure, having the images just transferred to talkimg would be the best solution for end users, but it would require trusting another service not to do the same thing as imgur.  Replacing with links seems to be the least time consuming solution that would also not add additional points of failure.  I'll be glad when it's done.

I voted for this option purely because it seems like the best solution and it means there
will be no need anyone to back track through all their links to fix the errors which would
indeed be such a waste of time. Personally if I had used IMGUR in the past I wouldnt even
bother going back to fix the errors and I'm sure there are others who would feel te same.

The benefit I see with talkimg.com is that it was created by an active user of the Forum ( joker_josue ) specifically for the Forum to use and is relying on what I would call meager donations to maintain the website, but is not asking for any other payment in kind for their services to actually run the site.  Already there is an "unofficial" support person ( TryNinja ) who created a script to assist port images URL's in posts.  While that might not be everyone's cup of tea trusting scripts it's help which again has been done without being asked, or paid for.

Kudos to both I say.

Absolutely, this is really the best solution and option for hosting images going forward.
The fact that it is run by active members ² of the forum is a massive benefit.

[IIrik11]

can images hosted at google-drive, one-drive, etc can be embedded into the posts?

if yes, then in my view that would be the best way of going forward, no third party websites required.

who ever wants to post image into their topic can upload them to their cloud-drive and post it in?

 

btw, u made me watch 'my cousin vinny' again, such a good movie..  

[LoyceV]

can images hosted at google-drive, one-drive, etc can be embedded into the posts?

Try it

if yes, then in my view that would be the best way of going forward, no third party websites required.

Unless you own Google and Microsoft, those are third party websites.

[IIrik11]

can images hosted at google-drive, one-drive, etc can be embedded into the posts?

Try it

if yes, then in my view that would be the best way of going forward, no third party websites required.

Unless you own Google and Microsoft, those are third party websites.

can't try as i don't use any cloud services.

and what i meant was the images u upload to ur own cloud account remain their.

unlike other third party services.

[joker_josue]

can images hosted at google-drive, one-drive, etc can be embedded into the posts?

Yes, that might even be possible. But it's not very practical.

But, the problem remains. If the user cancels the cloud service, the images will no longer appear in the forum.
What we wanted to avoid was that this happens whenever possible.

[libert19]

So when is poll result is going to be implemented?

[RickDeckard]

Sorry for bumping this but I was away for ~ 6 months and I have noticed that a majority of images linked in my posts are now broken (even though all of them are still available in my albums over at vgy.me). Did any decision came out of this discussion or is it something wrong on vgy.me end?

[acroman08]

Sorry for bumping this but I was away for ~ 6 months and I have noticed that a majority of images linked in my posts are now broken (even though all of them are still available in my albums over at vgy.me). Did any decision came out of this discussion or is it something wrong on vgy.me end?

I'm not sure if vgy.me got affected by what Theymos did but as far as I know, Theymos decided to block embedded images coming from Imgur. right now a lot of the members are using TalkImg.com - Image hosting for BitcoinTalk which is created by joker_josue.

[OgNasty]

Sorry for bumping this but I was away for ~ 6 months and I have noticed that a majority of images linked in my posts are now broken (even though all of them are still available in my albums over at vgy.me). Did any decision came out of this discussion or is it something wrong on vgy.me end?

If I’m not mistaken someone wrote a script to upload all your images to talkimg and update all your urls but it involves downloading something and I’m not sure if the source code is available to review or if someone has already done so. That might be worth looking in to.

Edit: I looked over the script and gave it a shot. Seemed to work out pretty well.

[joker_josue]

Sorry for bumping this but I was away for ~ 6 months and I have noticed that a majority of images linked in my posts are now broken (even though all of them are still available in my albums over at vgy.me). Did any decision came out of this discussion or is it something wrong on vgy.me end?

If I’m not mistaken someone wrote a script to upload all your images to talkimg and update all your urls but it involves downloading something and I’m not sure if the source code is available to review or if someone has already done so. That might be worth looking in to.

Here is the script that you don't need to install, and runs directly in the browser, used by dozens of users: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452662.0

[RickDeckard]

As of right now, all the links provided by vgy.me that I put inside the [img] tag always gives me the same result - broken image. I suppose that vgy.me is being prevented to being posted in the forum?

Thank you all for the scripts - If I am unable to get the images working here I will use these as a base for uploading to another host.

[joker_josue]

As of right now, all the links provided by vgy.me that I put inside the [img] tag always gives me the same result - broken image. I suppose that vgy.me is being prevented to being posted in the forum?

It is not the forum that is blocking these images. It could be vgy.me that could be blocking the forum's image proxy.
I don't remember this host causing any problems. But, it could be happening.

[LoyceV]

It could be vgy.me that could be blocking the forum's image proxy.

I'm surprised not more image hosts do that. Hotlinking is expensive and doesn't earn them anything from advertising.