stomachgrowls
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November 25, 2023, 06:33:53 PM |
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I have stopped listening to or watching streamers for quite a long time now, and the reason is because of the inability to convince myself that they are not rigged at all times because some of the streamers have shown some level of dissatisfaction in their approach and gameplay that exposes some aspect of the whole show being a possible rigged shows
So for that, gamblers either watch them for the fun and entertainment part of it rather than taking them streamers.
I once a believer that streamer is not rigged but their frequent winning big before their stream end is kinda scripted already to me including those streamers that hitting big amount while the casino use it as news to attract more players to try is very questionable. Aside from the streamer is using casino money, They probably use a unique account that already have a program to win big on a certain game once play multiple times. Most of the streamers that I’m watching usually win massive jackpot which is really hard to believe since the probability on hitting it every time they stream is very low yet they make it looks like so easy. It is because sometimes those streamers are pretty popular like in their own country, so people wouldn't expect that streamer to scam and manipulate people by showing clips or videos online of them winning huge amounts on a gambling game. For that reason, I think it's normal for people to believe them as sometimes they would provide proof of cashout which is totally fake. As a developer for sure you could make an account or the gambling itself to favor you, so if you are planning to catch people's interest and attention, you would literally ask for someone's popularity and give them a rigged account. Streamers would literally accept that offer cause they would be paid by simply promoting their gambling game, mentioning them in their every video, and of course advertisement, they can easily have an alibi by simply telling to people that they are not aware of the scam of the developers. Also a streamer wont really be able to reach out that peak popularity or reputation if they were really that loving on decieving people via introducing or streaming out something which is shady.If it turns out that a particular streamer is winning that much on a known platform/company/site then it is really just that normal that we should be thinking about probabilities yet being that lucky cant be crossed out. Somehow on the time that the severity of winning is already that turn out to be that excessive then this is where suspicions would really start up on which on the time that winnings are already that questionable. Well, we can be able to tell about winning that often or big amounts just because on the amount per bet or roll that they had put up is something big on which on the time that they would make up some hit then it would be that significant. You would be thinking that they are really winning than on losing. There's no way that we could be able to prove out but rather it would really be that ending up in all assumptions because we know that there's no way that it could really be happening unless if the site is really that something very new or doesnt have that much reputation then possibility is there, proving out would be the issue on this kind of situation.
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tjtonmoy
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November 25, 2023, 07:15:39 PM |
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In gambling, everything is based on luck. You can not copy it from someone else and it is not a skill that you can improve over time by doing it over and over again. So following a streamer and trying to get the same luck as them is never an option. And yeah, what they play is rigged. It's a way for casino platforms to lure more people to gamble on their platforms. It is true that we learn many things by watching others do it. We can improve ourselves that way. But as I have already mentioned, it is based on luck. So there's no point in copying others. Especially streamers.
It is just a twisted way of promotion. And those who don't know about it, fall for this scam. Is it genius or a scam? That's up to you to decide. If you can identify it and avoid getting scammed, then it is genius but if you fall for it, it becomes a scam.
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alastantiger
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November 25, 2023, 08:40:41 PM |
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streamers may get free money to wager without thinking too much, means more wagering = more chances to hit slots or win big payout.
The chances of a win is higher when the bets are higher. We all know this about casino games especially slots. And just like you I have once won, 110x my wager but never higher. I Keep wondering what's the maximum one can reach. Streamers do this all day long, their wins may be blown out of proportion despite the unknown underlying clauses they may have.
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Wiwo
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November 25, 2023, 09:50:43 PM |
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In gambling, everything is based on luck. You can not copy it from someone else and it is not a skill that you can improve over time by doing it over and over again. So following a streamer and trying to get the same luck as them is never an option. And yeah, what they play is rigged. It's a way for casino platforms to lure more people to gamble on their platforms. We indeed learn many things by watching others do it. We can improve ourselves that way. But as I have already mentioned, it is based on luck. So there's no point in copying others. Especially streamers.
It is just a twisted way of promotion. And those who don't know about it, fall for this scam. Is it genius or a scam? That's up to you to decide. If you can identify it and avoid getting scammed, then it is genius but if you fall for it, it becomes a scam.
I agree with you on that, because gambling does not follow a particular pattern and at that one can be taken off guard if he puts so much hope in the luck of another person no matter what the level of success that the streamers have recorded, as a gambler, you must be aware of the fact that, to be copying another gamblers game os the riskiest thing to do at all time and that should be totally avoided, So for sure, there os a possibility of making a good use of copy games but then we must have a settled fact that in doing that, you must know that nothing goes for nothing and gambling is meant to be taken for just fun and at that there is no sure games and at some point, you have to depend largely on your luck and whatever you can make up of the time to aid the winning.
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Furious 7
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November 25, 2023, 09:57:11 PM |
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streamers may get free money to wager without thinking too much, means more wagering = more chances to hit slots or win big payout.
The chances of a win is higher when the bets are higher. We all know this about casino games especially slots. And just like you I have once won, 110x my wager but never higher. I Keep wondering what's the maximum one can reach. Streamers do this all day long, their wins may be blown out of proportion despite the unknown underlying clauses they may have. Another problem to remember is that not all streamers gamble with their money because after all, we must be aware that there are many streamers who are assigned to gamble with certain sites to make it look like the site is good when it is just a marketing trick to bring some new users to the site in question. They only work not gambling because in the end they only offer sites to play with the simulation of the streamers playing which of course will continue to be won to boost the assumption that the site is indeed good. Although I agree that large bets will bring greater profits but on the other hand for them streamers things like nothing because in the end they play definitely set to win regardless of the amount of bets they do.
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Vaskiy
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November 25, 2023, 10:02:39 PM |
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streamers may get free money to wager without thinking too much, means more wagering = more chances to hit slots or win big payout.
The chances of a win is higher when the bets are higher. We all know this about casino games especially slots. And just like you I have once won, 110x my wager but never higher. I Keep wondering what's the maximum one can reach. Streamers do this all day long, their wins may be blown out of proportion despite the unknown underlying clauses they may have. Another problem to remember is that not all streamers gamble with their money because after all, we must be aware that there are many streamers who are assigned to gamble with certain sites to make it look like the site is good when it is just a marketing trick to bring some new users to the site in question. They only work not gambling because in the end they only offer sites to play with the simulation of the streamers playing which of course will continue to be won to boost the assumption that the site is indeed good. Although I agree that large bets will bring greater profits but on the other hand for them streamers things like nothing because in the end they play definitely set to win regardless of the amount of bets they do. Everything is kind of marketing and we need to be aware about the activities of the streamers. We should gamble for fun, which in reality is really hard. If we're rich enough or we have good money to spend this is possible. Next thing we should have the limits, and we should know what happens to a fellow gambler could happen to him. There are good number of people who had got into gambling just because his/her friends turned rich gambling. Good understanding about gambling is a must, if not this is going to be real hard to come out of it.
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Furious 7
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November 26, 2023, 02:24:44 PM |
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Another problem to remember is that not all streamers gamble with their money because after all, we must be aware that there are many streamers who are assigned to gamble with certain sites to make it look like the site is good when it is just a marketing trick to bring some new users to the site in question. They only work not gambling because in the end they only offer sites to play with the simulation of the streamers playing which of course will continue to be won to boost the assumption that the site is indeed good. Although I agree that large bets will bring greater profits but on the other hand for them streamers things like nothing because in the end they play definitely set to win regardless of the amount of bets they do.
Everything is kind of marketing and we need to be aware about the activities of the streamers. We should gamble for fun, which in reality is really hard. If we're rich enough or we have good money to spend this is possible. Next thing we should have the limits, and we should know what happens to a fellow gambler could happen to him. There are good number of people who had got into gambling just because his/her friends turned rich gambling. Good understanding about gambling is a must, if not this is going to be real hard to come out of it. That is something that must be understood because there may be one of the many streamers who gamble properly and do live streaming without promotion but that is only a handful of the many streamers who work for gambling just for the sake of boosting so that the site he promotes gets great interest for beginners. As for those who only follow and are in gambling because some of the closest people or see others profit greatly from gambling, this is actually the wrong action. We must realize that gambling isn't a business for players indeed this is a business but for those who are behind the scenes and not player. So, Being in gambling just because they see other people making big profits this will only make you disappointed. First we must realize that gambling is not for business because this is only purely from the luck we get so we cannot be sure that gambling can be profitable for ourselves. Secondly, we must realize that this will ultimately only spend the money we have sooner or later so the goal in gambling is not to seek profit but to seek pleasure.
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arimamib
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November 26, 2023, 02:37:27 PM |
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First, as long as the casino itself tells you to gamble responsibly, and you also are legally allowed to do without anyone forcing you to do. So, you shouldn’t get influenced by those streamers no matter what. They are only doing their job and creating content about gambling or trying a casino they didn’t invite you or force you to gamble.
And since these streamers also paid for a number of views, they will just continue to create gambling-related content specifically targeting those gambling community audiences regardless if they are affiliated or not by these gambling sites. In most cases, some gambling streamers are not really partnered with a gambling site. They just want to lure viewers to their channels and show their experience regarding that gambling site. Gambling content can generate significant viewership and engagement, especially among individuals who are already interested in gambling. The intension behind this strategy is usually to increase channel viewership and potentially monetize the channel through various means, such as advertising, and merchandise sales. By streaming the gambling audience, streamers can tap into a potentially lucrative market and attract viewers who are more likely to interact with their content. While some streamers may enjoy sharing their gambling experiences and providing insights to their viewers, others may prioritize viewership growth and monetization over the potential risks associated with promoting gambling activities. Viewers need to be discerning about the content they consume and to be aware of the potential biases and conflicts of interest that may exist when streamers promote gambling-related content.
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carlfebz2
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November 26, 2023, 02:39:01 PM |
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streamers may get free money to wager without thinking too much, means more wagering = more chances to hit slots or win big payout.
The chances of a win is higher when the bets are higher. We all know this about casino games especially slots. And just like you I have once won, 110x my wager but never higher. I Keep wondering what's the maximum one can reach. Streamers do this all day long, their wins may be blown out of proportion despite the unknown underlying clauses they may have. Another problem to remember is that not all streamers gamble with their money because after all, we must be aware that there are many streamers who are assigned to gamble with certain sites to make it look like the site is good when it is just a marketing trick to bring some new users to the site in question. They only work not gambling because in the end they only offer sites to play with the simulation of the streamers playing which of course will continue to be won to boost the assumption that the site is indeed good. Although I agree that large bets will bring greater profits but on the other hand for them streamers things like nothing because in the end they play definitely set to win regardless of the amount of bets they do. Everything is kind of marketing and we need to be aware about the activities of the streamers. We should gamble for fun, which in reality is really hard. If we're rich enough or we have good money to spend this is possible. Next thing we should have the limits, and we should know what happens to a fellow gambler could happen to him. There are good number of people who had got into gambling just because his/her friends turned rich gambling. Good understanding about gambling is a must, if not this is going to be real hard to come out of it. Never ever make yourself trying to be like those streamers to have that huge bankroll because if you do try to follow out on how they do make bets then you would surely be busting up a huge amount of your money and just like the rest been saying that those amounts or fund into their accounts wasnt theirs but obviously it is really that owned by the casino itself. We cant see on how confident or easy to those streamers on putting up huge amount per roll as if they arent that affected if they do lose? It is understandable that they are funded because they cant just make use of the amount something like that if theyre really making use of their own money which it doesnt make sense because they do make marketing for them to get salary or being paid and not to gamble. So it is really that contrary on what they are really gonna trying to do because if they are really that spending their own money then it doesnt make sense. They would be losing more compared on what they are trying to earn on which its obviously that everything is really just that for marketing purposes.
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Crypt0Gore
Sr. Member
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November 26, 2023, 02:58:37 PM |
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I watched a streamer on youtube some weeks ago and guess what? His viewers are the ones making contribution to his account and he is using their money to gamble, most times he win the money and I think maybe he will send them back if luck is on their side, I saw this happened live.
I think someone in this situation can easily make some callings because the bankroll is huge and secondly because the money isn't even theirs to begin with, like seriously, if this doesn't ring in your ear you have a problem, what I learned from this is that, the money you use in gambling matters a lot.
Where is the money from? This is what will determine the experience you will have in gambling, if you lose it all, Which is very likely, how will you feel about it? I think the most excitement part of gambling is using money you really can afford to lose, it's going to be a relaxing experience for you.
Streamers are real but not all of them, also they always have good numbers of viewers, even if they lose in gambling on live stream they are streamers for a living, they will still make money, the more money you make the better you will become with taking risks in gambling, the fact is , never stop making money.
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Beparanf
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November 26, 2023, 03:05:54 PM |
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I watched a streamer on youtube some weeks ago and guess what? His viewers are the ones making contribution to his account and he is using their money to gamble, most times he win the money and I think maybe he will send them back if luck is on their side, I saw this happened live.
I think someone in this situation can easily make some callings because the bankroll is huge and secondly because the money isn't even theirs to begin with, like seriously, if this doesn't ring in your ear you have a problem, what I learned from this is that, the money you use in gambling matters a lot.
This is the reason why twitch ban gambling because streamers is now blatantly asking viewers fund to gamble. I one time watch this kind of stream before from AdinRoss but I believe he is just using viewers money that he really knows. I watch the guy begging for his money to be back since they are already in profit yet the streamers keeps gambling he loss all the money of the viewer. He just return the funds using his own money since for publicity but this kind of way to gamble is really sucks because they are teaching their viewers to gamble even by just watching their stream.
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Accardo
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November 26, 2023, 03:43:54 PM |
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I watched a streamer on youtube some weeks ago and guess what? His viewers are the ones making contribution to his account and he is using their money to gamble, most times he win the money and I think maybe he will send them back if luck is on their side, I saw this happened live.
I think someone in this situation can easily make some callings because the bankroll is huge and secondly because the money isn't even theirs to begin with, like seriously, if this doesn't ring in your ear you have a problem, what I learned from this is that, the money you use in gambling matters a lot.
This is the reason why twitch ban gambling because streamers is now blatantly asking viewers fund to gamble. I one time watch this kind of stream before from AdinRoss but I believe he is just using viewers money that he really knows. I watch the guy begging for his money to be back since they are already in profit yet the streamers keeps gambling he loss all the money of the viewer. He just return the funds using his own money since for publicity but this kind of way to gamble is really sucks because they are teaching their viewers to gamble even by just watching their stream. I noticed twitch ban these gambling streamers, I think I've watched few streamer offer $10 for viewing their stream session. Didn't participate though, but somehow the casino happened to be a new business looking at fetching new customers through a streamer. The process of streaming casinos, are being abused by the streamers by the illustration described on your response. Soon, gamblers will be iconoclastic of these streamers claiming to be casino imperials and yet lose out on people's well and truly earnt money. With the huge traffic and followers they're fetching for the casino, if the streamers maintained fair business acumen of working directly with the casino, and didn't bother about viewers funds, things would be moving fine in the industry. The future repercussions of such a humorless attitude of the gambling streamers can affect the streaming business. Players who enjoyed their games, are beginning to jeer at the streamers over their funds. With many more withdrawing or quitting from such activities. I don't seem to grasp why people engage in their crowdfunded inclined streams. It's time they have learnt from the mistakes of others, but don't blame the system, as millions of naive gamblers, everyday, join for the first time. Hence, they won't run out of business. Yet!
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Coin_trader
Copper Member
Legendary
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
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November 26, 2023, 03:52:26 PM |
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It is because sometimes those streamers are pretty popular like in their own country, so people wouldn't expect that streamer to scam and manipulate people by showing clips or videos online of them winning huge amounts on a gambling game. For that reason, I think it's normal for people to believe them as sometimes they would provide proof of cashout which is totally fake. As a developer for sure you could make an account or the gambling itself to favor you, so if you are planning to catch people's interest and attention, you would literally ask for someone's popularity and give them a rigged account. Streamers would literally accept that offer cause they would be paid by simply promoting their gambling game, mentioning them in their every video, and of course advertisement, they can easily have an alibi by simply telling to people that they are not aware of the scam of the developers. You’re right, Popularity is always the weakness of viewers and key to success of streamer to promote even a scam casino. The funny part is those popular streamer is now being target by scammer that try to impersonate them by copying all their content and promote different scam casino. The popular streamer is already promoting scam casino while other scammer try to use the content for different scam casino too. Poor viewer being a victim of this kind scheme that is just trusting the streamer that doesn’t really care to them. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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junder
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November 26, 2023, 04:24:14 PM |
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Everything is kind of marketing and we need to be aware about the activities of the streamers. We should gamble for fun, which in reality is really hard. If we're rich enough or we have good money to spend this is possible. Next thing we should have the limits, and we should know what happens to a fellow gambler could happen to him. There are good number of people who had got into gambling just because his/her friends turned rich gambling. Good understanding about gambling is a must, if not this is going to be real hard to come out of it.
Yes no other than all the activities carried out by the stremers I think 80% are just nonsense, why? because their luck looks like excessive, I can't figure out how they can get a very large number of wins every time they gamble on the streming they air, it seems impossible but it does happen. In fact, there are not a few people who follow the way like the stremers but the results are not suitable, maybe you have tried it and have the same fate as other tryers who are still unlucky. In my opinion don't get too carried away with what you see, the first thing that is more important and that you must understand is that gambling is always nothing more than luck, it's very simple, if you are lucky then you will win and vice versa, and also if you see the luck and victory of the stremers as unreasonable then you don't need to follow it. I understand that everyone has their own luck with a certain win rate but you should be suspicious and wary of the excessive luck that casinos get, even if I turn into a stremer I'm not sure I will be as lucky as them. And also yes it's better to gamble properly, gambling with the intention of having fun is better and also always apply a lot of restrictions for your safety.
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Hirose UK
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November 26, 2023, 04:39:09 PM |
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Streamers are real but not all of them, also they always have good numbers of viewers, even if they lose in gambling on live stream they are streamers for a living, they will still make money, the more money you make the better you will become with taking risks in gambling, the fact is , never stop making money.
It is true that they always try to make more money and make various efforts in pursuing what can provide greater profits and consistently. If they only rely on gambling, I sure they won't be able to cover their losses and they won't be able to make profits that are really worth fighting for with all the risks involved. Gambling streamers have greater income from each broadcast that takes place and all of this is also influenced by the number of viewers and streamer dares to take risks by gambling longer and with larger bet amount to attract number of people who are willing to watch it. Moreover, for what they lose there is always decent return such as from referral bonuses and also payments from each impression. But we shouldn't be fooled by what streamer gets, such as trying to do the same thing by betting and playing like streamer who seems to have no money limit in every gambling session they do. We have to think that they dare to do all of that because of the opportunity for various benefits that can be obtained. Another thing is that we don't really know how they have agreements with the gambling sites they use because every streamer always has profitable agreement from each site they use.
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Juse14
Sr. Member
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Duelbits
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November 26, 2023, 04:48:01 PM |
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Everything is kind of marketing and we need to be aware about the activities of the streamers. We should gamble for fun, which in reality is really hard. If we're rich enough or we have good money to spend this is possible. Next thing we should have the limits, and we should know what happens to a fellow gambler could happen to him. There are good number of people who had got into gambling just because his/her friends turned rich gambling. Good understanding about gambling is a must, if not this is going to be real hard to come out of it.
Yes no other than all the activities carried out by the stremers I think 80% are just nonsense, why? because their luck looks like excessive, I can't figure out how they can get a very large number of wins every time they gamble on the streming they air, it seems impossible but it does happen. In fact, there are not a few people who follow the way like the stremers but the results are not suitable, maybe you have tried it and have the same fate as other tryers who are still unlucky. In my opinion don't get too carried away with what you see, the first thing that is more important and that you must understand is that gambling is always nothing more than luck, it's very simple, if you are lucky then you will win and vice versa, and also if you see the luck and victory of the stremers as unreasonable then you don't need to follow it. I understand that everyone has their own luck with a certain win rate but you should be suspicious and wary of the excessive luck that casinos get, even if I turn into a stremer I'm not sure I will be as lucky as them. And also yes it's better to gamble properly, gambling with the intention of having fun is better and also always apply a lot of restrictions for your safety. Slot is one type of gambling that uses a machine. And the name of the machine can be arranged in such a way as to be able to give victory to slot gambling streamers, so this is not a surprising thing, why slot gambling streamers can win up to many times and make no sense, which is very different from when we do this gambling. And the purpose of the streamer is none other than so that they can attract as many customers as possible to visit the gambling platform that sponsors it. And what slot gambling stremers are after are novice players or people who are new to gambling. While people who have been playing gambling for a long time, are not their target, because players who have been gambling for a long time, must already know about how the slot gambling algorithm and system works. And if someone already knows but still plays slot gambling, if they are not stupid enough, it means they are experiencing slot gambling addiction.
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goxcraft
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November 26, 2023, 05:57:16 PM |
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Well any casino platform engaging in this is definitely not being genuine, yes I understand many Casino platforms are looking for ways to attract potentials customers to their platform but using this dubious means (faking winnings) would crash in the long run. Also I think intending customers should look more on the features the gambling site has and how genuine they are rather than looking an the high amounts of previous winnings that has been encountered in the platform.
One thing I learned from online is never trust anyone that says anything. I only believe what I see. I don't trust these so called streamers. Anything they do mostly for money. Nothing is free these days, especially anything online. So how can we expect that a streamer will promote a business free of cost? I thing we have our answers there. They are doing this for money. As for the winnings they can be fake or rigged as the platform already knows of the streamer.
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tjtonmoy
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November 26, 2023, 06:25:22 PM |
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I agree with you on that, because gambling does not follow a particular pattern and at that one can be taken off guard if he puts so much hope in the luck of another person no matter what the level of success that the streamers have recorded, as a gambler, you must be aware of the fact that, to be copying another gamblers game os the riskiest thing to do at all time and that should be totally avoided,
So for sure, there os a possibility of making a good use of copy games but then we must have a settled fact that in doing that, you must know that nothing goes for nothing and gambling is meant to be taken for just fun and at that there is no sure games and at some point, you have to depend largely on your luck and whatever you can make up of the time to aid the winning.
This is the one thing many people in gambling nowadays ignore or don't try to understand. Gambling is for fun and entertainment. Why make it complicated just so you can win some bets? Their luck is for them only. What are the odds of you having the same luck as those streamers? 1 in infinity. If you are lucky enough, you may get the same result. But isn't that your own luck at that point? Anyway, to me, it is all about entertainment. I may watch those streamers for fun to learn a new game or how to gamble on it. Other than that, never copy them. It takes away all the fun that comes with gambling on my own.
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Hispo
Legendary
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
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November 26, 2023, 06:37:39 PM |
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I watched a streamer on youtube some weeks ago and guess what? His viewers are the ones making contribution to his account and he is using their money to gamble, most times he win the money and I think maybe he will send them back if luck is on their side, I saw this happened live.
I think someone in this situation can easily make some callings because the bankroll is huge and secondly because the money isn't even theirs to begin with, like seriously, if this doesn't ring in your ear you have a problem, what I learned from this is that, the money you use in gambling matters a lot.
Where is the money from? This is what will determine the experience you will have in gambling, if you lose it all, Which is very likely, how will you feel about it? I think the most excitement part of gambling is using money you really can afford to lose, it's going to be a relaxing experience for you.
Streamers are real but not all of them, also they always have good numbers of viewers, even if they lose in gambling on live stream they are streamers for a living, they will still make money, the more money you make the better you will become with taking risks in gambling, the fact is , never stop making money.
That is quite a bizarre situation, to be honest. I had not seen a streamer which actually received money from their public during a live-stream for the sole purpose of fuel their gambling session... I have read about Streamers who have fallen into a situation where they cannot longer control themselves and start to ask for money privately to their fans and associates, but that is different. I would personally not donate to a streamer to gambler, because as you said, they are already in the green numbers since their streaming activities are supposed to be profitable, so there is little sense to fuel even more their bankroll for the sake of entertainment. You mention that in the cases he got some luck streak he actually give some of the money back to donators, but that was rather a courtesy from him because in the most of the cases once money is donated is not supposed to come back from the beneficiary.
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Wiwo
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November 26, 2023, 06:50:06 PM |
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This is the one thing many people in gambling nowadays ignore or don't try to understand. Gambling is for fun and entertainment. Why make it complicated just so you can win some bets? Their luck is for them only. What are the odds of you having the same luck as those streamers? 1 in infinity. If you are lucky enough, you may get the same result. But isn't that your own luck at that point?
Anyway, to me, it is all about entertainment. I may watch those streamers for fun to learn a new game or how to gamble on it. Other than that, never copy them. It takes away all the fun that comes with gambling on my own.
A lot has taken gambling as a means to make income and at that, they have made a lot of attempts, to make a repeated, winning is something that may not be achievable for most members and that we have to realize that, there is no way to make such a result on a consistent mode and that have to do a lot with how we handle such. Any gambler who lacks that quality and understanding is on the way to making some huge unrecoverable mistakes that will lead them to an unfavourable outcome of thing on the long run.
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