Wasabi Wallet - Total Privacy For Bitcoin

[Kruw]

Kruw from a few months ago would of called me a big time Scammer had I ran my own Uncensored Coordinator.

You're a liar. I couldn't have been more insistent that people run their own coordinators:

You can use any coordinator with Wasabi, including your own.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62810015#msg62810015

Since you already know you can run a Wasabi coinjoin coordinator and there's nothing zkSNACKs can do to stop you since they made their code open source, then why did you make this petition?  Why aren't you just running your own Wasabi coinjoin coordinator instead?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62811294#msg62811294

Since the coordinator code is all open source, you get to decide your own criteria yourself.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62823189#msg62823189

Being open source means you can run your own coordinator.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62823635#msg62823635

Open source solves your problem which is why I keep suggesting it.  If your notes were censored by a Nostr relay, then I would tell you the same thing:  Run your own relay.  Your obsession about the reasons why some other Nostr relay isn't storing your notes is no longer your problem and not really interesting in the first place.  I do the same thing when opening Lightning channels:  Attempt a new peer if I am rejected by my first choice.  I don't open a petition against Lightning software development companies because they don't want to accept my channel, I can use simply use their software to connect to any node.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62823909#msg62823909

Why haven't you set up your own WabiSabi coinjoin coordinator yet?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62830686#msg62830686

BlackHatCoiner, why haven't you set up a WabiSabi coordinator yet?  Since no one on this thread is coordinating coinjoins themselves, it's proof that all the petitioners don't actually want to circumvent coinjoin censorship, they just want to harm the reputation of open source software.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62832629#msg62832629

Why would you participate in a petition to have open source privacy software removed from Bitcointalk since you can solve any problems of arbitrary censorship by running your own coordinator?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62835413#msg62835413

Stop doubting, start running: https://i.imgur.com/dA1YkUp.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62838641#msg62838641

Copy and paste zkSNACKs' open source coordinator code.  They literally did all the work for you, their business can be yours with CTRL + C, and instead, the losers on this thread are instructing people not to use Wasabi at all.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62845744#msg62845744

Go to your node and check the "Enable Coordinator" button on your BTCPay Server WabiSabi coinjoin plugin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62846553#msg62846553

I am not being rhetorical, stop dodging the question over and over and over:  WHY DON'T YOU RUN YOUR OWN COORDINATOR?  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg63115339#msg63115339

You don't create coinjoins with yourself, other people can use your coordinator.  People are not stuck using the zkSNACKs coordinator.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg63116005#msg63116005

[PrivacyG]

Kruw from a few months ago would of called me a big time Scammer had I ran my own Uncensored Coordinator.

You're a liar. I couldn't have been more insistent that people run their own coordinators:

You also could not have been more insistent to point out that I am helping out SBF by not supporting Censorship.

As a coinjoin coordinator, would you deny service to Sam Bankman Fried if he wanted to coinjoin stolen FTX funds?  Or would you make his stolen coins private instead?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62072923#msg62072923

Why would you help Sam hide the stolen money from his victims?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62074164#msg62074164

Sure, I'll approach it from the base layer:  As a miner, would you deny service to Sam Bankman Fried if he wanted to coinjoin stolen FTX funds?  Or would you make his stolen coins private instead?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62074164#msg62074164

[Kruw]

You also could not have been more insistent to point out that I am helping out SBF by not supporting Censorship.

And I could not have been more clear that I believe the solution to SBF stealing a ton of money is to chain him to a boulder and leave him in a dungeon. In case you haven't heard, SBF is in prison now.

You're right: I don't think SBF should be allowed to do anything.  He should be chained to a boulder and left in a dungeon until his debts are paid off.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62078217#msg62078217

[PrivacyG]

And I could not have been more clear that I believe the solution to SBF stealing a ton of money is to chain him to a boulder and leave him in a dungeon. In case you haven't heard, SBF is in prison now.

Stop derailing the subject.  You were pointing fingers at us for NOT supporting Censorship of the Coordinator.

As the coinjoin coordinator, you are not the arbiter of whether or not SBF is allowed to use Bitcoin, you are the arbiter of whether or not you turn his stolen coins private.  I'm asking you why you would choose to help Sam hide the stolen money from his victims.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62075573#msg62075573

[Kruw]

Stop derailing the subject.  You were pointing fingers at us for NOT supporting Censorship of the Coordinator.

I wasn't pointing fingers, I was asking questions. Libertarian philosophy is what got me into Bitcoin in the first place, I am interested in the answers people have for these scenarios with SBF or Stalin. My answer is to throw SBF in a dungeon.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Kruw 2023: SBF shouldn't be allowed to coinjoin his coins. Why would anyone allow him do that?
Kruw 2024: I do not censor anyone.

Yet, PrivacyG is the liar here.  

Libertarian philosophy is what got me into Bitcoin in the first place, I am interested in the answers people have for these scenarios with SBF or Stalin. My answer is to throw SBF in a dungeon.

Right. And which school of libertarian thought stands for aggression and censorship? I've probably missed that one.

[Kruw]

Kruw 2023: SBF shouldn't be allowed to coinjoin his coins. Why would anyone allow him do that?
Kruw 2024: I do not censor anyone.

Yet, PrivacyG is the liar here.  

Why didn't you provide a quote of me saying the thing you claimed I said? This is a forum, if I actually said that, then you would be able to prove it.

________________________________

New release! Wasabi 2.0.7.2 is now available, download from https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/releases/tag/v2.0.7.2

This version includes a new feature: Coinjoin to another wallet. This allows you to use transfer your funds from your hot wallet into your hardware wallet directly inside a coinjoin transaction. This perk saves block space and improves privacy compared to transferring to cold storage by hand.

[Pmalek]

Kruw 2023: SBF shouldn't be allowed to coinjoin his coins. Why would anyone allow him do that?
Kruw 2024: I do not censor anyone.

Yet, PrivacyG is the liar here.  

That's kruw for you. As trustworthy as Harvey Weinstein around Hollywood actresses. He embodies Wasabi's spirit perfectly. We will bend over any way they ask us to. If his handlers decided coinjoins were illegal and considered money laundering, he would start saying that and call everyone out for using them.

And no Kruw, I am not running my own coordinator. I wouldn't touch anything that is connected to you or Wasabi even with a stick.

[Kruw]

And no Kruw, I am not running my own coordinator. I wouldn't touch anything that is connected to you or Wasabi even with a stick.

Why not? Do you just not care about privacy?

[Kruw]

11,000 private Bitcoins are now on the blockchain. Let's fucking go

12,000+ private Bitcoins are now on the blockchain 

[Wind_FURY]

11,000 private Bitcoins are now on the blockchain. Let's fucking go

12,000+ private Bitcoins are now on the blockchain 

Perhaps those are Wasabi users CoinJoining before June 1? The fees are cheap too.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But it's sad to see one of the most liquid CoinJoining service close its doors. I believe that it will take some time, a LONG time, before an anonymous community-bootstrapped coordinator could gain the reputation and the trust of the users. Plus to have enough liquidity to CoinJoin effectively.

[Kruw]

I believe that it will take some time, a LONG time, before an anonymous community-bootstrapped coordinator could gain the reputation and the trust of the users.

You don't have to trust coordinators. There's no reputation required.

[Wind_FURY]

I believe that it will take some time, a LONG time, before an anonymous community-bootstrapped coordinator could gain the reputation and the trust of the users.

You don't have to trust coordinators. There's no reputation required.

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

[Kruw]

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Read what I said again: You don't have to trust coordinators. There's no way to create a "honeypot".

[Pmalek]

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Kruw will now tell you that the reputation of an individual doesn't matter because everything is open-source. He might also mention that it can't be a honeypot because the wallet doesn't collect any information. Did I mention it is open-source? Finally, if you are not running your own coordinator then you are a pussy.   

[Kruw]

Kruw will now tell you that the reputation of an individual doesn't matter because everything is open-source.

Correct. The code speaks for itself.

He might also mention that it can't be a honeypot because the wallet doesn't collect any information.

Correct. Your data is yours alone, you never share it with anyone at all.

[Wind_FURY]

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Read what I said again: You don't have to trust coordinators. There's no way to create a "honeypot".

Thanks, I believe I need to get more into the nitty gritty. But the point remains. No one can merely start a coordinator and expect it to automatically have the reputation needed for users to start sending their outputs to it. BitcoinTalk users could start one as a community, but the ban on mixers makes the idea impossible to promote in the forum.

OK, let me rephrase - It might take a long time before the community will find a coordinator that's operated by a trustworthy individual, or group of individuals, who will not be honeypots. Because there WILL be honeypots pretending as coordinators that will utilize zkSNACKS software after June 1. I'm very VERY confident that we'll see them.

Kruw will now tell you that the reputation of an individual doesn't matter because everything is open-source. He might also mention that it can't be a honeypot because the wallet doesn't collect any information. Did I mention it is open-source? Finally, if you are not running your own coordinator then you are a pussy.   

I'm also asking about the outputs in the pool. If most of it is from the owner of the coordinator then he/she could trace those outputs upon exit from the pool, just like a honeypot. Or am I wrong?

[Kruw]

Thanks, I believe I need to get more into the nitty gritty. But the point remains. No one can merely start a coordinator and expect it to automatically have the reputation needed for users to start sending their outputs to it.

You don't need any reputation because coordinators are not trusted.

BitcoinTalk users could start one as a community, but the ban on mixers makes the idea impossible to promote in the forum.

"Mixers" are scams that steal from you and track all of your transaction history. This is the opposite of a coinjoin, which is trustless.

I'm also asking about the outputs in the pool. If most of it is from the owner of the coordinator then he/she could trace those outputs upon exit from the pool, just like a honeypot. Or am I wrong?

Any entity with enough capital can perform a Sybil attack, this isn't a privilege of the coordinator.

[Wind_FURY]

Thanks, I believe I need to get more into the nitty gritty. But the point remains. No one can merely start a coordinator and expect it to automatically have the reputation needed for users to start sending their outputs to it.

You don't need any reputation because coordinators are not trusted.

BitcoinTalk users could start one as a community, but the ban on mixers makes the idea impossible to promote in the forum.

"Mixers" are scams that steal from you and track all of your transaction history. This is the opposite of a coinjoin, which is trustless.

I'm also asking about the outputs in the pool. If most of it is from the owner of the coordinator then he/she could trace those outputs upon exit from the pool, just like a honeypot. Or am I wrong?

Any entity with enough capital can perform a Sybil attack, this isn't a privilege of the coordinator.

The same argument. If a coordinator doesn't have the reputation to attract enough users to put enough volume/liquidity into the coordinator then it can be sybil attacked by bad actors, and essentially make it function like their own honeypot. It's not a flaw in the coordinator, I'm merely saying that  low liquidity = less effective CoinJoins.

[Kruw]

The same argument. If a coordinator doesn't have the reputation to attract enough users to put enough volume/liquidity into the coordinator then it can be sybil attacked by bad actors, and essentially make it function like their own honeypot. It's not a flaw in the coordinator, I'm merely saying that  low liquidity = less effective CoinJoins.

Sure, more liquidity is absolutely an advantage when defending against a Sybil attacker. The minimum input count of the round is known ahead of time, so you can avoid choosing a coordinator that provides an inefficient/insecure service.