The effect the mixer ban has had on the forum.

[shahzadafzal]

As I just said in another thread, I think this topic deserved its own thread.

The main effect that the ban has had is that the mixers have gone to advertise in another forum (shitcoinstalks.com), and with it the campaign managers here as well as a lot of forumers that have been "teleported", being currently active in both forums.

Nah, man, Bitcointalk is a lone warrior in this space, more specifically in forum-style discussions around Bitcoin. Bitcointalk is not in competition with any other xtalk[dot]com.

No "new" forum will ever reach the same level as Bitcointalk is today. They may attract a few hundred or thousand users, but they can't compete at the same level. The reason is not Bitcointalk but other social media platforms. In terms of traffic, user engagement, and marketing, any new forum will be competing with those platforms, not with Bitcointalk.

Bitcointalk remains a discussion-oriented place, although there are no more hardcore technical discussions related to Bitcoin, as those have moved to more suitable spaces like GitHub, etc. However, the original OGs of the Bitcoin era are still here, and they will stay.

Regarding campaign managers or other groups, they follow the wind and won't stay in one place for long.

[DaNNy001]

~cut~

I think bitcointalk will not die even if there are no more campaigns here. Bitcoin users are already ideological and this is where Bitcoin was born. Even though I haven't followed the campaign for a long time, the discussions on this forum are quite interesting, I'm still here and not yet interested in altcointalk. I don't know the future...

Apart from that, this forum is also not intended to make a profit from advertising so it doesn't matter if there is a slight decrease in traffic because maybe this forum is dedicated only to supporting bitcoin, not for profit like altcointalk

Even with all that you have said, we still can't deny the fact that signature campaign here are the major cause of the high traffic and I could bet that if anything was to stop the participation in signature campaigns then the traffic would certainly be dull compare to how it was before. Although I know that this community has gain so much population and popularity and also I agree that discussion here are on another level but the truth is that signature campaign are major core of its much high traffic and that's the truth.

[Casdinyard]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Does any organic traffic actually land at that site? Not really. Does it have posts by Satoshi, Hal, Vitalik & other crypto-luminaries of our time? No. Does it have 12 years worth of content & backlinks? No.

Here's a quick comparison of the site's traffic metrics according to Similarweb:

Bitcointalk Global Rank: #39,778 Worldwide
Altcoinstalks Global Rank: #540,599 Worldwide

Bitcointalk Monthly Visits: 1.5 million
Altcoinstalks Monthly Visits: 45.4 thousand

Bitcointalk Traffic Sources: 42.54% Search
Altcoinstalks Traffic Sources: 10.45% Search


I assume the campaigns there are paying peanuts compared to here. Also, its got to be a complete spamfest, which is why its not attracting organic traffic. If people want to make a few extra bucks by posting there, good for them. I don't think it will detract from Bitcointalk's status.

Just visited one of the mixers that was transferred from here to altcoinstalks and from what they used to pay their users back here, the 50 bucks pay cut is a brutal one. The thing is that the other forum's just not marketable enough for them to pay their users any higher than 30 bucks, and the sad thing about this is that since it's not that profitable, they literally have to play the pioneering game and Oregon trail settlement their shit out which is not that cool especially if you're doing it solely for volunteer work.

It's not like the other forum's bad either, did a couple visits in the heat of the mixer bans discussion and I see how similar these sites are to each other which is a good thing, cause it means people can really just go back and forth from here or there without much issue, but the sheer lack of enthusiasm around people, as well as the extreme profit-centric energy that the site gives out (they pay their users for being good boys with altcoins I think) is a stark contrast to the indie-vibes that we bring about in this forum, where people are still getting paid for sure, but it's not like that's the only thing that we're concerning ourselves with.

One thing is for sure to me after finding out about altcoinstalk and how they work there: bitcointalk will not die if the site loses all its signature campaigns and they switch out to altcoinstalk, but it for sure would be nice if it doesn't end up that way 

[JollyGood]

Without a doubt traffic elsewhere will increase whether or not it decreases here but I am sure theymos already factored in that possibility in when he made the decision to ban mixers.

I think those that do end up using that forum or another will not give up here because the campaign payments here are higher. They would rather use more than one forum than be restricted to just one if it means making more money.

This is not to criticize theymos' decision to ban mixers, which I understand in order to prevent greater evils in the future, but it is important to be aware of the danger of traffic transfer if further restrictions are introduced in the future.

[PX-Z]

In relation of traffic and possible income through advertisements, 100% sure, the other one will increase. Theymos as a website admin knows much more than any of us in relation of traffic. That's why it doesn't matter to him anymore he knows such thing already, it starts when he stopped accepting the advertisements here.
And mixers promoting their service is none of his business after banning them here (which he thought about it carefully) so, i said it again it doesn't matter to him anymore.

[Poker Player]

Sig campaigns are the result of Bitcointalk's traffic, prestige & reputation; not the other way around.

And that's one thing that can't change, right? Motorola and Nokia also had a great reputation and prestige.

Guess I just fail to understand what the problem here is.

There is no problem currently. I am giving an objective description of what happened and what could happen if more signature bans are imposed in the future. And it is that after 15 days of mixer ban here you have a lot of forum members who have gone to another forum to advertise mixers there. You say that as this is Satoshi's forum there will always be traffic here and I say that maybe yes maybe no, I'd better wait and see.

The point is, you're trying to protect the current Bitcointalk's traffic right?

In capitalism, competition is inevitable,

Well, not exactly, I am saying that what can happen if more restrictions are imposed, as could happen in the future with casino signatures, for example, which is something that theymos did not rule out but said he did not foresee in the near future, is that the traffic will go elsewhere. To think that if more and more campaigns are banned here the traffic is going to stay because this forum has a prestige nowadays seems to me quite naive.

And competition seems great to me, because I am also quite capitalist in ideology, but precisely the competition makes things change.

Why will users switch to another forum? There is still a company signature for mixers, but they pay much cheaper than here.

Today. Do you think that is something that can't change?

OP isn't criticizing theymos decision to ban mixers. He only pointed out the effect of mixer ban in Bitcointalk. But I think that there is no problem anywhere. Theymos decision simply favoured Altcoinstalks forum, and did not take any traffic off from bitcointalk.

I think you are the one who has best understood what I have said but I would qualify that that's what happened at the moment, just 15 days after the mixer ban.

About Bitcoin itself and the services related to it, there is certainly a much better discussion here with many more relevant participants and information.

Certainly, this whole mixer ban will change some things.

Agreed.

If members here could make money at a different forum at $30-$40 per week while still making $70-$80 here, they will do it because they will receive an extra income.

That is mainly what is happening. But there will also be some members who have run out of campaign here and are now posting only or mainly there. Two casino campaigns recently ended here.

You are not familiar because you and OP wouldn't get paid there to post your biased BS, the only reason you 2 hang around here is because of your bossman paying you here, the moment you teleport to that forum you will get tagged left and right.

Keep on dreaming.

Do not let this bother you so much,

If in the first thing you say you show that you haven't understood what I'm saying, I'm not going to waste my time with you.

No "new" forum will ever reach the same level as Bitcointalk is today.

That remains to be seen.

Even with all that you have said, we still can't deny the fact that signature campaign here are the major cause of the high traffic and I could bet that if anything was to stop the participation in signature campaigns then the traffic would certainly be dull compare to how it was before.

It's not that traffic would just slow down here, it would go elsewhere.

Of course it works that way. If you create a forum today and get the traffic

That's the thing: I don't expect the traffic to work that way. If users only join to earn money, you'll miss the basis that made Bitcointalk a valuable place to advertise in the first place.

Merit "exchanged" for agreeing to disagree. That basis has long since been reduced to the bare minimum in the forum.

[dkbit98]

Maybe it's just me but I did notice reduced activity in certain boards of bitcointalk forum, maybe it's not related with new forum rules or maybe it is.
I also heard about few accounts who left the forum because of this change, and we already know services that had to leave.
Despite everything I think that bitcointalk forum still has the best balance of organic conversation with campaign promotions.
Other forums always existed to offer something that is not available here, and that is not always bad... maybe we are going to have less spam here

[Mpamaegbu]

Poker Player, I like the perspective and concern you shared with this thread of yours. You share in my thought too concerning the increased traffic that should be expected at the new site – altcoinstalk. However, I don't quite agree with your choice of "shitcoinstalks.com" for that site. It's almost like you're already beating it up. Come to think of it, members from here who are teleporting to that forum aren't lightweight and we should expect a tremendous change there soon.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Does any organic traffic actually land at that site? Not really. Does it have posts by Satoshi, Hal, Vitalik & other crypto-luminaries of our time? No. Does it have 12 years worth of content & backlinks? No.

That site may be at a disadvantage today compared to BTT but that doesn't exclude a certain level of growth there that we know is coming. We should surely expect a resurgence and adjustment in posting pattern in weeks to come and that will surely increase traffic there. Rome wasn't built in a day, was it? I think we should just give it some time, perhaps a year before making these comparisons and conclusions.

[borovichok]

In relation of traffic and possible income through advertisements, 100% sure, the other one will increase. Theymos as a website admin knows much more than any of us in relation of traffic. That's it doesn't matter to him anymore he knows such thing already, it starts when he stopped sccepting the advertisements here.
And mixers promoting their service is none of his business after banning them here (which he thought about it carefully) so, i said it again it doesn't matter to him anymore.

It matters to him because if we're not here today, he'll have no choice but to close the forum and go on to other things. I'm sure he had no idea what the "after mixer ban" would do to the forum, and he certainly didn't expect altcointalk to swiftly rush in to take advantage. Most people, including myself, expected the mixes' promotion to transfer to the darknet, but that was not the case. I don't use altcointalk, but their activity appears to have jumped by more than 100% and is still increasing. Another one-sided action from theymos, and the forum is over.

Other forums always existed to offer something that is not available here, and that is not always bad... maybe we are going to have less spam here

Maybe we're going to be stuck here with old topics and more bumps.

[NotATether]

I assume the campaigns there are paying peanuts compared to here. Also, its got to be a complete spamfest, which is why its not attracting organic traffic. If people want to make a few extra bucks by posting there, good for them. I don't think it will detract from Bitcointalk's status.

$45 against $150 for the highest-paying campaigns for each site, so yeah you are correct.

[Poker Player]

$45 against $150 for the highest-paying campaigns for each site, so yeah you are correct.

As usual with you, you didn't even bother to read what I explained afterwards. I'll explain it to you in another way.

A month ago, the highest paying campaigns on this forum: $250 per week.

A month ago, the highest paying campaigns on this altscointalk: $0.

Now: the only campaign that pays the most in this forum: $150.

On altscoinstalk: $45.

A year from now: we'll see.

The purpose of this thread is to warn of what may happen if more restrictions on signatures are imposed, not simply to rejoice in looking at a still photo of what this forum looks like today.

[borovichok]

<snip>

As usual with you, you didn't even bother to read what I explained afterwards. I'll explain it to you in another way.

A month ago, the highest paying campaigns on this forum: $250 per week.

A month ago, the highest paying campaigns on this altscointalk: $0.

Now: the only campaign that pays the most in this forum: $150.

On altscoinstalk: $45.

A year from now: we'll see.

The purpose of this thread is to warn of what may happen if more restrictions on signatures are imposed, not simply to rejoice in looking at a still photo of what this forum looks like today.

On Bitcointalk lowest start, the major and first payment Sig campaign on Bitcointalk was paying $1.3 cent/month. You'd be lucky to get someone to give you $2-$10 back then, when traffic was similar to that of altcointalk.

Altcointalk lowest payment is $30 per week. Imagine what they'll pay if they ever reach the traffic levels of Bitcointalk. Not forgetting that Altcointalk Sig were paying much lower than the current payrate so we can literally say as the payrate on Bitcointalk dropped ( due to the ban),the payrate on Altcointalk increased. I agree with Poker Player it's just a matter of time.

[Poker Player]

I agree with Poker Player it's just a matter of time.

I have to qualify this. I'm not saying it's a matter of time, but it could happen over time and especially if more restrictions are imposed. Let's imagine that casino campaigns are banned, for example. What would happen? I think that we could see a clear transfer of members and traffic to the other forum.

[Synchronice]

The effect of the mixer ban on this forum is that this forum gets rid of unwanted problem with the authorities and avoids the possible scenario of shutting down this forum because of active mixers promotion. But the side effect of this ban is that people move on altcoinstalks. Is that a big deal? No, because altcoinstalks can't offer high paying signature campaign because they don't have traffic and low-paying signature campaigns can't attract traffic because almost every campaign here pays way more than campaigns listed on altcoinstalks.com
If altcoinstalks want to make people move from bitcointalk to their website, they have to invest money into signature campaigns and make them artificially pay higher than others pay on Bitcointalk for a long period of time because they don't have traffic and can't gain a competitive advantage in traffic by simply offering $45 campaigns.

[AB de Royse777]

Nothing can takeaway over 14 years of history of this forum.

[borovichok]

I agree with Poker Player it's just a matter of time.

I have to qualify this. I'm not saying it's a matter of time, but it could happen over time and especially if more restrictions are imposed. Let's imagine that casino campaigns are banned, for example. What would happen? I think that we could see a clear transfer of members and traffic to the other forum.

Matter of time can also be applied in many contexts. If casinos are banned, accounts made after 2012 will be gone; in fact, 80% of user activities will be substantially reduced, and Altcointalk will become the new Bitcointalk.

If altcoinstalks want to make people move from bitcointalk to their website, they have to invest money into signature campaigns and make them artificially pay higher than others pay on Bitcointalk for a long period of time because they don't have traffic and can't gain a competitive advantage in traffic by simply offering $45 campaigns.

Dude did you read what I posted earlier? Bitcointalk was paying $1.3/month in 2011. If the traffic on Altcointalk increases the payrate will also increase.

Nothing can takeaway over 14 years of history of this forum.

The history will remain here, but the majority of people will go to the highest paid forum, leaving here as a historical archive. One more drastic action from theymos and this place is toosed.

[Lucius]

I agree with Poker Player it's just a matter of time.

I have to qualify this. I'm not saying it's a matter of time, but it could happen over time and especially if more restrictions are imposed. Let's imagine that casino campaigns are banned, for example. What would happen? I think that we could see a clear transfer of members and traffic to the other forum.

I think it's only a matter of time before forums as a place for discussions become a thing of the past, and I think that regardless of signature campaigns, we will see it in the next ten years. Banning mixers from this forum will surely influence some members to change their habits, but I don't think we can say at this moment that the other forum has a chance to become the new "bitcointalk", regardless of the fact that some members "teleported" their profiles there and started participate in signature campaigns.

I think that it should also be taken into account that "they" will not stop hunting mixers, and that no one should be surprised if this (and other forums) that promote them do not end up in a situation where they have to act like this forum or face the possibility that the notification "this domain is seized" will appear in front of their eyes.

[tranthidung]

Dude did you read what I posted earlier? Bitcointalk was paying $1.3/month in 2011. If the traffic on Altcointalk increases the payrate will also increase.

It is because the price of Bitcoin back in the day. You have to take into account inflation rates from fiat currencies as well.

Just some years back like 2018 and 2019, $50/week is a standard for Hero and Legendary account, except CM.

In 2011, did you mean this campaign?
up to 50 people, get paid 0.10 BTC to change your signature for 3 months. 0.1 BTC for 3 months, with BTC price in 2011, it's was not much payment. It is like posting and getting BTC for experience and for fun.

Nothing can takeaway over 14 years of history of this forum.

The history will remain here, but the majority of people will go to the highest paid forum, leaving here as a historical archive. One more drastic action from theymos and this place is toosed.

History says that the forum has years without signature campaigns. Not big deal if signature will be disabled, the forum will not die even its traffic will drop.

History - signature campaigns and bounties on Bitcointalk
EVOLUTION OF SIGNATURE AD CAMPAIGNS (BEGINNING DAYS TO THE PRESENT)
ignature campaign: The lowest and highest payment BTC and USD in 2013-2022

[LoyceV]

A month ago, the highest paying campaigns on this forum: $250 per week.
A month ago, the highest paying campaigns on this altscointalk: $0.
Now: the only campaign that pays the most in this forum: $150.
On altscoinstalk: $45.
A year from now: we'll see.

All I see here is that "altscoinstalk" can expect a lot of competition! If it's that easy to get people to earn $45 per week on a new forum, there's a lot of money to be made for the forum itself too, and new forums will emerge.

Nothing can takeaway over 14 years of history of this forum.

There have been Bitcointalk clones before It shouldn't be that difficult to clone the entire site again, but on a different domain with different rules.

I think it's only a matter of time before forums as a place for discussions become a thing of the past

I don't think so. That would only leave a few "social media" ruled by multinationals. I don't ever visit those, and I'm not alone in that.

[Rikafip]

The purpose of this thread is to warn of what may happen if more restrictions on signatures are imposed, not simply to rejoice in looking at a still photo of what this forum looks like today.

I doubt that theymos is not aware of the fact that bitcointalk owes vast majority of its current traffic to signature campaigns so I don't thnk that he will easily impose any further signature campaign restrictions. Mixer ban coulnd't be an easy one either and imho it was obvious that it was just a matter of time.

I don't think so. That would only leave a few "social media" ruled by multinationals. I don't ever visit those, and I'm not alone in that.

Forums won't completely disappear, but I would be very surprised if they remain relevant in 10 years considering how things are developing. I've been very active on various forums since the early 2000s and situation is constantly getting worse. Golden age of forums was ~15 years ago and since then its all downhill.