The effect the mixer ban has had on the forum.

[nutildah]

The purpose of this thread is to warn of what may happen if more restrictions on signatures are imposed, not simply to rejoice in looking at a still photo of what this forum looks like today.

I doubt that theymos is not aware of the fact that bitcointalk owes vast majority of its current traffic to signature campaigns so I don't thnk that he will easily impose any further signature campaign restrictions. Mixer ban coulnd't be an easy one either and imho it was obvious that it was just a matter of time.

The thing is, the forum doesn't need traffic to survive. He's stated a few times over the years that the forum is doing quite well financially & doesn't need to raise money for anything. He's also stated that he thinks its cool that people can earn money from posting. I'd be very surprised if he announces any more kinds of signature bans.

And that's one thing that can't change, right? Motorola and Nokia also had a great reputation and prestige.

Bitcointalk isn't a company. It's not operated for the sake of turning a profit and doesn't require revenue to continue existing; at least not for decades, or maybe even longer.

The forum will retain relevance by acting as a repository for satoshi's posts. That's all it has to keep doing. It will be relevant for as long as bitcoin is relevant.

[Smartvirus]

It’s obvious most of your observation and speculation happens to be the case and users on the forum has teleported there accounts there in a bid to keep the acquired rank from BTT and other forums but, this doesn’t mean there would be any irrelevances in the traffic on here and how the forum is or should be run.
At the very least, the most that have changed on here is just the ban on mixers which have gained ground in another field. I mean, what would we have expect, they apparently is a needed service in the cryptospace and as such, needs a place to advertise.
Still, there isn’t any assurance that the fate of mixers on Bitcointalkforum wouldn’t be the fate of mixers elsewhere in the near feature. No reason to get worked up about it although, that wasn’t exactly the purpose of the OP.

[JollyGood]

I think one of the things Poker Player is saying is that as time progresses, the other forum (or forums) will eventually start increasing payouts in the campaigns that are being promoted on them especially as they will be driven by a policy that allows mixers to be visible (and posted about) and will results in mixers competing with each other thus the inevitable payment battle.

How many members would disagree with a principal that as traffic grows on the other forums, their campaign payouts will too, that is part of what Poker Player is stating and it is difficult to argue against that point.

If altcoinstalks want to make people move from bitcointalk to their website, they have to invest money into signature campaigns and make them artificially pay higher than others pay on Bitcointalk for a long period of time because they don't have traffic and can't gain a competitive advantage in traffic by simply offering $45 campaigns.

[Lucius]

I think it's only a matter of time before forums as a place for discussions become a thing of the past

I don't think so. That would only leave a few "social media" ruled by multinationals. I don't ever visit those, and I'm not alone in that.

If we were to compare the ratio of users who use forums and the most popular social networks, we would easily conclude that forums generally take a very small share in all of this. According to research from 2023, FB has about 3 billion active users per month, this forum approximately 3000+ active users per week, of which of course not all are unique users.

Considering the situation with those who use AI chat bots today, the question arises as to who will want to communicate in ten years (and probably even sooner) on a platform that will possibly consist of 80% bots and 20% people.

[hugeblack]

$45 against $150 for the highest-paying campaigns for each site, so yeah you are correct.

As usual with you, you didn't even bother to read what I explained afterwards. I'll explain it to you in another way.

You can get a special deal at $2.5 per post, so the best payment in ALTT is the same as the worst payment for an SR account in BTT. But starting from zero dollars two months ago and $120 a month ago, the difference is clear.

I've noticed more people joining like mocacinno/BlackHatCoiner/witcher_sense in the last 24 hours.
I think ABCbits aka ETFbitcoin is the highest ranking member in terms of merits who join.


The quality of the forum is as good as the quality of the discussions and the level of spam. Most of the paid posts are from good members compared to the smaller number of spam posts. But there is no alternative to BTT, even if all signature campaigns are banned.

I only hope that campaign managers look for advertisers away from gambling campaigns because that has become the prevailing feature of most signatures on the forum.

[Synchronice]

If altcoinstalks want to make people move from bitcointalk to their website, they have to invest money into signature campaigns and make them artificially pay higher than others pay on Bitcointalk for a long period of time because they don't have traffic and can't gain a competitive advantage in traffic by simply offering $45 campaigns.

Dude did you read what I posted earlier? Bitcointalk was paying $1.3/month in 2011. If the traffic on Altcointalk increases the payrate will also increase.

Bitcointalk is an original forum of Bitcoin and a birthplace of many other top projects where legends themselves were actively posting and what is altcoinstalks? By the way, I want to say that Bitcointalk was probably the only forum with signature campaign, are there any other forums like this one? Campaigns pay high rate today because this is the OG forum and has the highest traffic with a good SEO profile.
You say that if the traffic on altcoinstalks increases, so will increase the payrate but how is that going to happen? How will traffic grow on altcoinstalks? Explain me this part.

I think one of the things Poker Player is saying is that as time progresses, the other forum (or forums) will eventually start increasing payouts in the campaigns that are being promoted on them especially as they will be driven by a policy that allows mixers to be visible (and posted about) and will results in mixers competing with each other thus the inevitable payment battle.

Let's wait and see how long will they be able to allow mixer advertisement on their forum. At the moment there is not a big traffic and nobody cares about their forum and when mixers will be banned, they will be forced to disallow its promotion.

FinCEN Proposes New Regulation to Enhance Transparency in Convertible Virtual Currency Mixing and Combat Terrorist Financing

[borovichok]

Bitcointalk is an original forum of Bitcoin and a birthplace of many other top projects where legends themselves were actively posting and what is altcoinstalks? By the way, I want to say that Bitcointalk was probably the only forum with signature campaign, are there any other forums like this one? Campaigns pay high rate today because this is the OG forum and has the highest traffic with a good SEO profile.
You say that if the traffic on altcoinstalks increases, so will increase the payrate but how is that going to happen? How will traffic grow on altcoinstalks? Explain me this part.

It has already grown since the ban of Mixers on Bitcointalk, with some of the forum's reputable members and many more having already transferred their accounts there. FYI, traffic to Bitcointalk increased when the signature campaign launched in 2011. Nobody expected Altcointalk to reach the level of Bitcointalk, but it is now on the right path to compete

Let's wait and see how long will they be able to allow mixer advertisement on their forum. At the moment there is not a big traffic and nobody cares about their forum and when mixers will be banned, they will be forced to disallow its promotion.

Mixers are not illegal and from what I've read the altcointalk forum is not hosted on the U.S jurisdiction so it's safe to say the forum is on a safer space than Bitcointalk.

[examplens]

It is too early to talk about any effect, only 17 days have passed.

I've noticed more people joining like mocacinno/BlackHatCoiner/witcher_sense in the last 24 hours.
I think ABCbits aka ETFbitcoin is the highest ranking member in terms of merits who join.

Honestly, there is quite a lack of quality discussions there. A fairly small number of members (mostly teleported from here) influence the quality of the conversation, and it is not easy to maintain continuity in writing meaningful posts. It's a good thing that the admin noticed an opportunity for the growth and improvement of the forum, so he works quite actively on it.

Let's wait and see how long will they be able to allow mixer advertisement on their forum. At the moment there is not a big traffic and nobody cares about their forum and when mixers will be banned, they will be forced to disallow its promotion.

Mixer ban is theymos' decision, there is no question of regulation, they are still legal services. So just a rule of the forum, not global at all. I think that the Alttalk admin himself confirmed that he has no intention of banning mixers, at least until it is not punishable to talk about them at all.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

As much as I am (on one hand) not happy that mixers advertising on this forum is now obsolete, and on the other hand understand that this decision was made by theymos for the longevity and greater good and safety of this forum, I would also say that..

- The mixer ban
- The migration to another forum

All are somehow a blessing to the other forum, and also a blessing (but maybe in disguise) to the users of this forum as well, since those who have teleported now have the opportunity of joining a campaign on both forums and earning on both.

But still on still, bitcointalk have lost nothing in terms of traffic and so, and like theymos have said, I do not think that there will be any ban or restrictions again any time soon, since the majority of advertisers on this forum have become gambling casinos, gambling itself is not illegal, the government is not against gambling, and casinos are a regulated business that is providing gambling services to gamblers, the chances that theymos will ever have any reason to ban gambling casinos from advertising on this forum, (which may likely affect the forum's traffic) is very slim.

So, for those who care, enjoy the opportunity of earning from both forums while you can  .

[Myleschetty]

Bitcointalk is an original forum of Bitcoin and a birthplace of many other top projects where legends themselves were actively posting and what is altcoinstalks? By the way, I want to say that Bitcointalk was probably the only forum with signature campaign, are there any other forums like this one? Campaigns pay high rate today because this is the OG forum and has the highest traffic with a good SEO profile.
You say that if the traffic on altcoinstalks increases, so will increase the payrate but how is that going to happen? How will traffic grow on altcoinstalks? Explain me this part.

It has already grown since the ban of Mixers on Bitcointalk, with some of the forum's reputable members and many more having already transferred their accounts there. FYI, traffic to Bitcointalk increased when the signature campaign launched in 2011. Nobody expected Altcointalk to reach the level of Bitcointalk, but it is now on the right path to compete

The traffic of Bitcointalk don't only increased after the launch of signature campaign in 2011.
Mind you, Bitcoin is just 2years in 2011 and it's harr for an innovative digital monetary system to gain huge acknowledgment and that's what happened with this forum then. Another thing is that Bitcointalk backlink is more powerful than the forum in the subject and Bitcointalk it's also the number one in everything related with cryptocurrency if we're talking about forum.

[coin-investor]

Bitcointalk is an original forum of Bitcoin and a birthplace of many other top projects where legends themselves were actively posting and what is altcoinstalks? By the way, I want to say that Bitcointalk was probably the only forum with signature campaign, are there any other forums like this one? Campaigns pay high rate today because this is the OG forum and has the highest traffic with a good SEO profile.
You say that if the traffic on altcoinstalks increases, so will increase the payrate but how is that going to happen? How will traffic grow on altcoinstalks? Explain me this part.

It has already grown since the ban of Mixers on Bitcointalk, with some of the forum's reputable members and many more having already transferred their accounts there. FYI, traffic to Bitcointalk increased when the signature campaign launched in 2011. Nobody expected Altcointalk to reach the level of Bitcointalk, but it is now on the right path to compete

The traffic of Bitcointalk don't only increased after the launch of signature campaign in 2011.
Mind you, Bitcoin is just 2years in 2011 and it's harr for an innovative digital monetary system to gain huge acknowledgment and that's what happened with this forum then. Another thing is that Bitcointalk backlink is more powerful than the forum in the subject and Bitcointalk it's also the number one in everything related with cryptocurrency if we're talking about forum.

Bitcointalk after 13 years has gained a huge number of backlinks for it to lose organic traffic, as the domain and the website aged, the search engines are giving it a, especially for any search engine keywords queries if one writer writes an article and that's the only subject in the internet and if some also write that unique subject here in Bitcointalk it will beat the other site even if it is written a year ahead, what subject Bitcointalk tackles it always landed in the first page and that's where generic traffic happens, as long as you are in the first two pages of the keyword you get organic traffic.
Study shows that Searches never get past three pages in their queries.

[NotATether]

$45 against $150 for the highest-paying campaigns for each site, so yeah you are correct.

As usual with you, you didn't even bother to read what I explained afterwards. I'll explain it to you in another way.

A month ago, the highest paying campaigns on this forum: $250 per week.

A month ago, the highest paying campaigns on this altscointalk: $0.

Now: the only campaign that pays the most in this forum: $150.

On altscoinstalk: $45.

A year from now: we'll see.

The purpose of this thread is to warn of what may happen if more restrictions on signatures are imposed, not simply to rejoice in looking at a still photo of what this forum looks like today.

There's no reason for additional signature restrictions to be imposed because the services being advertised (gambling, exchanges) are either not shady or their industry predates bitcoin. So it's not like we are going to see lawmakers declaring more advertised bitcointalk services illegal.

With that being said, Altcoinstalks is just a bus for people who want to earn extra money doing mixer campaigns. It's traffic is nowhere near bitcointalk (While I cannot get the exact numbers because guests cannot see them, I can confidently tell you they are nowhere near Bitcointalk's 900k page views per day. They do have 3000 guests on average though. Bitcointalk does not say how many guests visit per day but with 900k page views, it is most likely much more than that).

The mixer payouts there are a bubble just like they were here. Except the average pay here went from $100 to 200/300 and then back down to 100.

Altcoinstalks went from 0 to 45 per week and there weren't any campaigns there before this year except for bounties. Now there are just mixer campaigns there and bounties. Even the DDoS sites which were banned here are not advertising over there. Meanwhile Cryptotalk which only existed for running campaigns is not even around anymore, and in any case made no more than  a few dollars/week.

If mixers become banned by law then the average payout over there goes back to zero as there will be no more campaigns left if mixers are banned there too. And it's not like Altcoinstalks admin is just going to stand by and let their forum get sanctioned or shuttered because of this.

This is not hate, it's just facts and data.

It's good for bitcointalkers who want to go earn extra money. But as long as bitcoin.org, twitter, publications, Nostr and all those other platforms are ignoring Altcoinstalks links, then traffic will not grow, and hence signature payments there will not grow.

Bitcointalk could ban all signatures tomorrow and the payout goes to 0.

But it wouldn't increase the payouts on Altcoinstalks at all for the reason I mentioned above - no traffic. A global signature ban will not increase Altcoinstalks traffic by guests. Only by +100 forum members who haven't teleported yet.

On Bitcointalk lowest start, the major and first payment Sig campaign on Bitcointalk was paying $1.3 cent/month. You'd be lucky to get someone to give you $2-$10 back then, when traffic was similar to that of altcointalk.

That's because Bitcoin itself was not as big as it is now - 2010-2013 Bitcoin was much smaller than today.

Altcointalk lowest payment is $30 per week.

Because the mixer industry is already big.

Not forgetting that Altcointalk Sig were paying much lower than the current payrate so we can literally say as the payrate on Bitcointalk dropped ( due to the ban),the payrate on Altcointalk increased. I agree with Poker Player it's just a matter of time.

Guys, you are thinking a website will just blow up in popularity like Threads or ChatGPT because of signature campaigns? 3 years of SEO experience tells me that this is incorrect. Sig campaigns are for members, so the difference will only be in terms of members NOT guests who come here from other sites and don't even get signatures.

[nutildah]

It's good for bitcointalkers who want to go earn extra money. But as long as bitcoin.org, twitter, publications, Nostr and all those other platforms are ignoring Altcoinstalks links, then traffic will not grow, and hence signature payment sthere will not grow.

Prior to the last couple weeks, the only times I had ever visited that forum was to look for clues about alt accounts. There's literally no reason for any guest visitors to go there. If I wanted to scroll through shitposts about altcoins, I'd just hop on over to Altcoin Discussion, leaving the forum is not required.

[Hatchy]

Do you think growing over is that cheaper as you may think?
From my little stay over there i don't think is that easy to easily rank up over there and still op is correct on what he is saying just as you said. The restriction of mixers here has given that forum exponential growth from how it was knowing that some of the people here are teleporting their account over there, but still there is nothing wrong with that but they should be careful in terms of teleporting accounts to avoid account compromised even entirely losing their account due to high rate of teleportation, they could easily use their login details over here to make account there by so doing they have revealed their main account password to other site which easily to be hacked and that could be done by admin.

Actually from what I've observed from that forum, it will be easier for spammers to rank up over there compared to Bitcointalk ranking up system. I kept watch of some accounts that were created some months after the announcement of the mixer ban, and just In a period of thirty days I noticed that they had already gotten to the full member rank. From my own idea, those spammers who found it difficult to rank up here on btt because of the merit system might flood that website and rank up faster joining signature campaigns but it's still very easy to know a good quality posters. So far most of the signature campaigns are picking good quality and high reputable members from Bitcointalk and altcoinstalk also. So even if they rush to rank up in a short period they still might not be selected in the paid campaigns.

Overtime, more advertisement campaigns will open up over there and it will create opportunity for members of BitcoinTalk to earn extra weekly. I see nothing wrong with that. The only thing that might be complicated here is the teleportation of account from btt. But I still see no effect it has to any users account here. The admin did that to make it easier for members who may be interested in moving over there. And instead of rushing to rank up which takes time, you just continue over there with your account from Bitcointalk.

A wise individual will not make the mistake of using same password on two different accounts. We should be security conscious of anything we don online. The security her on btt might be strong compared to altcoinstalk but we shouldn't take any chances.

[Poker Player]

Bitcointalk isn't a company. It's not operated for the sake of turning a profit and doesn't require revenue to continue existing; at least not for decades, or maybe even longer.

Bitcointalk is not a company and a forum without traffic is not a forum, it is a relic or a ruin, like the Roman ruins that people visit, not a forum. If hypothetically tomorrow there will be no more traffic on the forum, it will surely continue to survive because it will not need money, but it will not be a forum, it will be a ruin.

[JollyGood]

It has taken one decision from theymos to create a migration of several higher ranking member to at least one other crypto forum. They simply followed where the money went and to be honest most members here are here for the money too. Overall, I would assume he took that in to account before making the decision and would probably do it all over again even if he knew the outcome because he did not want mixers that do not use coinjoin advertised in the forum.

The barometer to gauge the real impact of migration to other forums will not necessarily come down to what happens here  because those migrating will keep posting here to earn whatever they can whilst they post over there to earn whatever they can, therefore though traffic should not decrease here but it will definitely increase there. As that (and other forums grow) this forum will not necessarily be the first place for crypto newbies to register.

If we have this conversation after on year, it will be interesting to see exactly how much the competitors to this forum have grown versus the rate at which this forum has grown.

Bitcointalk isn't a company. It's not operated for the sake of turning a profit and doesn't require revenue to continue existing; at least not for decades, or maybe even longer.

Bitcointalk is not a company and a forum without traffic is not a forum, it is a relic or a ruin, like the Roman ruins that people visit, not a forum. If hypothetically tomorrow there will be no more traffic on the forum, it will surely continue to survive because it will not need money, but it will not be a forum, it will be a ruin.

[tread93]

I'm sure that Theymos is well aware that the traffic is being moved elsewhere in fact that's the whole reason he banned them in the first place. I don't think this change really has any negative affects whatsoever except for the folks that were in those camps. I also don't see casino camps getting the boot anytime soon as gambling is perfectly legal in most countries and more in particular the SEC isn't as strict on those.

[nutildah]

Bitcointalk is not a company and a forum without traffic is not a forum, it is a relic or a ruin, like the Roman ruins that people visit, not a forum. If hypothetically tomorrow there will be no more traffic on the forum, it will surely continue to survive because it will not need money, but it will not be a forum, it will be a ruin.

It will always be a forum. For the sake of argument, I kind of see what you're saying, but its more like a museum than a ruin. The museum has a 6-year-deep layer of spam around it, yet its important exhibits are still easily located with the right Google queries.

I'm sure that Theymos is well aware that the traffic is being moved elsewhere in fact that's the whole reason he banned them in the first place.

Traffic isn't being moved elsewhere. Everyone who opened an account on altcoinstalks is still here. Organic traffic over there is minimal because its 100% spam... Like a contemporary museum without exhibits, there's no reason for visitors to go there.

[Jatiluhung]

The impact is only that more people teleport from btt to altt. But I hope that everyone who teleports can still maintain the security of their account on BTT. By not using the same password to be in different forums but with the same name. Because if one of the accounts in the forum has been successfully infiltrated by someone else, it will be the same as our accounts in other forums. So the most important thing is to have a different password for each account we have on other forums. Not only on altt but also on other crypto forums, which are actually quite numerous at the moment even though the traffic is quite light.

[Pmalek]

The impact is only that more people teleport from btt to altt. But I hope that everyone who teleports can still maintain the security of their account on BTT. By not using the same password to be in different forums but with the same name. Because if one of the accounts in the forum has been successfully infiltrated by someone else, it will be the same as our accounts in other forums. So the most important thing is to have a different password for each account we have on other forums.

It's never recommended to use the same password across multiple accounts, but we now have an additional line of defense to protect Bitcointalk accounts. You have probably noticed that the forum now allows to set up 2FA. So, even if your password leaked, whoever gets their hands on it would also need the 2FA code, assuming that you set it up.