Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[tiCeR]

...

When you have basic knowledge about Bitcoin and then decide to run an investment, this will be very good, but you need to remember that when you decide to invest, you must continue to learn until you really understand it well and most importantly for anyone who wants to start, they must be able to keep their wallet keys well and do not lose access to their wallet after collecting Bitcoin.
Yes, in this forum we will be able to gain knowledge about Bitcoin and as a beginner it will certainly be better to choose to maintain their assets in the long term and also have to use funds that they will not take until the target they have set has not been reached.

I doubt that it is necessary for anyone to learn to hold their own private keys before getting into bitcoin or even to do that right away.  A person can get started with third-party custodial solutions and then transition into learning various kinds of self-custody possibilities.  The level of security that a person needs or even their decisions in regards to UTXO management could affect how they hold coins.

I keep reiterating in various threads that one of the most basic kinds of knowledge that a person needs to get started investing into bitcoin regards whether he has a disposable income or not that he is able to invest in bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, so even if he might just start with $100 per week, he should at least be able to figure out if that is within his disposable income or not, and as far as knowledge about bitcoin, he likely would ONLY need to consider that bitcoin is a good place to put money for 4-10 years or longer, and if he is not sure about that conclusion, then he can adjust his investment amount downward until he is comfortable and then he can learn about bitcoin enough to reach a conclusion that he is more comfortable investing higher amounts into bitcoin that would be locked away for 4-10 years or longer.

Anyone wanting to buy bitcoin on shorter than 4 year timelines would be trading rather than investing, and personally I consider bitcoin to be an investment rather than a trade, and surely there might be some folks who get into bitcoin and they are considering keeping it for shorter than 4 year timelines and maybe trying to play our current cycle to their advantage, and sure people can do what they like, yet I would still classify shorter than 4 year timelines as trades (or gambling) rather than investing.. which is fine.. people can do what they like, even dumb things (which might be the case if they are not able to spend enough time to actually learn what bitcoin is and/or to appreciate that bitcoin is likely better as an investment rather than as a trade.

Definitely correct and I would add that the higher the amount someone is able and willing to invest, the stronger would my recommendation be to manage their bitcoin holdings on their own. But from my point of view, for the average scale investor, an Electrum wallet is ok. I have been using Electrum for a very long time now, never had any issues like crashing clients and there is tons of info material on how to properly use it, back it up and so on and so forth.

I think it is sometimes not even so much about the wallet you use, but how careful you are when it comes to basic user behavior. You know, there are days my mom still asks me whether she should open this mysterious email from Nigeria and I would probably not recommend my mother to run any clients on their computer that hold bitcoin funds. But if someone knows what to click and - more importantly - what not to click, then a desktop client can get you quite far in terms of security and manageability.

Anyone wanting to buy bitcoin on shorter than 4 year timelines would be trading rather than investing, and personally I consider bitcoin to be an investment rather than a trade

This is the really important point that people keep getting wrong because they are still shocked by the growth bitcoin as a value network has been going through so far. I like that you don't bring up periods that are too short, like 12 months or so. 12 months can fully wreck you and put you in a bad position, perhaps forcing you to liquidate your holdings when they are at their low during that period of time. 4 years sounds reasonable and of course 10 years, well that is a timeframe that gets me really interested. By then Bitcoin could be anywhere. The one thing I still can't appropriately assess is whether any significant progress in computing/quantum computing could become a threat for the encryption technology used in bitcoin.

Anyone could deem bitcoin a trade and if they wish they can leverage it like any other currency, but I concur that the nature of bitcoin is such that it would probably fit much better into the investment category (long term investment). It is of high interest to literally anyone in the world. For some it is for practical reasons, like circumventing sanctions or making use of its essentially unlimited borderless mobility, for others it is because whatever has true value for someone else, can have true value for me regardless of whether or not I use it under specific circumstances.

Bitcoin is a buy in my opinion and while I understand people who said they prefer to be careful when bitcoin was at pennies and dollars, it stood the test of time now and the question is how far it can really go.

[SuperBitMan]

I keep reiterating in various threads that one of the most basic kinds of knowledge that a person needs to get started investing into bitcoin regards whether he has a disposable income or not that he is able to invest in bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, so even if he might just start with $100 per week, he should at least be able to figure out if that is within his disposable income or not, and as far as knowledge about bitcoin, he likely would ONLY need to consider that bitcoin is a good place to put money for 4-10 years or longer, and if he is not sure about that conclusion, then he can adjust his investment amount downward until he is comfortable and then he can learn about bitcoin enough to reach a conclusion that he is more comfortable investing higher amounts into bitcoin that would be locked away for 4-10 years or longer.

Anyone wanting to buy bitcoin on shorter than 4 year timelines would be trading rather than investing, and personally I consider bitcoin to be an investment rather than a trade, and surely there might be some folks who get into bitcoin and they are considering keeping it for shorter than 4 year timelines and maybe trying to play our current cycle to their advantage, and sure people can do what they like, yet I would still classify shorter than 4 year timelines as trades (or gambling) rather than investing.. which is fine.. people can do what they like, even dumb things (which might be the case if they are not able to spend enough time to actually learn what bitcoin is and/or to appreciate that bitcoin is likely better as an investment rather than as a trade.

You've nailed it on the head with your detailed explanation Jay thank you. It is so true that the best knowledge to have as a beginner is the knowing of the true value of Bitcoin. The true value is revealed the longer we hold on to it. If an investor is having double minded toward Bitcoin then he should just keep buying and do whatever he likes. Only a few can comprehend what Bitcoin is worth. There is a saying, 'Many are called but few are chosen'

People mistake buy and hold to just buying Bitcoin and holding it for months, a few years or so. The real definition of investing in Bitcoin is buying Bitcoin and holding it for more than a decade. Anything between 4 to 10 years is gambling. Because the more knowledge we get while investing, the more confident we can be in our long-term decisions. When we approach Bitcoin in that way we mean to say that Bitcoin is with more which means it's currently priced less than its true value and so it will be worth more if we hold it longer than a decade and more.

We need to be very clear when talking about Bitcoin newbie by telling them that the only way you can make good profit from Bitcoin is by holding for 5 to 10 years or more and if he or she is still young he should endeavor to hold from 10 years and above this is what we should put in there front so they will bear in mind the kind of task that await them if they choose to invest in Bitcoin.
Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

I keep reiterating in various threads that one of the most basic kinds of knowledge that a person needs to get started investing into bitcoin regards whether he has a disposable income or not that he is able to invest in bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, so even if he might just start with $100 per week, he should at least be able to figure out if that is within his disposable income or not, and as far as knowledge about bitcoin, he likely would ONLY need to consider that bitcoin is a good place to put money for 4-10 years or longer, and if he is not sure about that conclusion, then he can adjust his investment amount downward until he is comfortable and then he can learn about bitcoin enough to reach a conclusion that he is more comfortable investing higher amounts into bitcoin that would be locked away for 4-10 years or longer.

Anyone wanting to buy bitcoin on shorter than 4 year timelines would be trading rather than investing, and personally I consider bitcoin to be an investment rather than a trade, and surely there might be some folks who get into bitcoin and they are considering keeping it for shorter than 4 year timelines and maybe trying to play our current cycle to their advantage, and sure people can do what they like, yet I would still classify shorter than 4 year timelines as trades (or gambling) rather than investing.. which is fine.. people can do what they like, even dumb things (which might be the case if they are not able to spend enough time to actually learn what bitcoin is and/or to appreciate that bitcoin is likely better as an investment rather than as a trade.

You've nailed it on the head with your detailed explanation Jay thank you. It is so true that the best knowledge to have as a beginner is the knowing of the true value of Bitcoin. The true value is revealed the longer we hold on to it. If an investor is having double minded toward Bitcoin then he should just keep buying and do whatever he likes. Only a few can comprehend what Bitcoin is worth. There is a saying, 'Many are called but few are chosen'

I thought that I was saying something a bit different, which is the most important thing is knowing your own personal financial and psychological situation.  I know that I did not say it exactly like that, but knowing your own finances and disposable income is more important than knowing much of anything about bitcoin, beyond just having some sense that bitcoin is number go up technology... so in that regard, you would be anticipating to invest into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer.  In the very beginning, you might not even be 100% sure that you want to be an investor rather than a trader, so you might not even be completely willing to commit  to a 4-10 year or more timeline, yet it seems that the less you know the less aggressive you are going to be in your investment amount and so there would be value to continue to learn about bitcoin while you are investing so that you are able to feel comfortable becoming more aggressive about it and solidifying your commitment to a 4-10 year or longer investment timeline.

I probably could have had said this more clearly, yet maybe the idea is not really an easy one to grasp, because we all know that it is good to have knowledge about things that we are involved in in order to have better commitment to our involvement, yet at the same time it still is the case that we really don't need to know very much at bitcoin in the very beginning, yet we will not be able to be very aggressive in our investing into it until we learn more about it, but we can still get started, perhaps in a somewhat whimpy way until we learn enough to feel more committed. 

I kind of presume that an overwhelming majority of people know whether they have disposable income or not, even though I also presume that a lot of people might not be very good at managing their particulars but they still might be in the habit of having a bit of a cashflow cushion of something like 2-4 weeks (and maybe even more) of their expenses just in case they need more or in case they miscalculate their exact monthly expenses.  One of the tricky aspects when it comes to actually investing into something like bitcoin versus having savings or even investing into housing or into their retirement account is that with bitcoin there may be a sense that they are able to get in and out whenever they like (which can devolve into thinking of bitcoin as something that can be traded rather than invested) and also couple that with the extreme volatility that bitcoin can sometimes have, then they might be tempted to get in and out of bitcoin based on its volatility and also based on their own lack of a tendency to pre-establish a sufficient financial cushion, so they would need to develop certain skills, practices and mindsets in regards to investing into bitcoin, even though they don't need to have any of those skills practices and mindset at the very beginning of getting started, yet in order to be able to commit to 4-10 years or longer, they likely would need to develop those kinds of skills, practices and mindsets in order to be able to commit to investing into bitcoin (rather than devolving into some kind of an inclination to trade it).

People mistake buy and hold to just buying Bitcoin and holding it for months, a few years or so. The real definition of investing in Bitcoin is buying Bitcoin and holding it for more than a decade. Anything between 4 to 10 years is gambling.

I agree the longer the better, but there are some folks who are not able to commit to 10 years based on age, health considerations or some other complications in their own living situation, so I would hate to suggest that the minimum investment timeline is 10 years rather than 4 years - even though I agree that less than 4 years is trading and/or gambling rather than investing, even though many of us still realize that there are pretty decent odds that a less than 4 year timeline could still have decently good chances to be traded successfully with fiat profits (Personally, I don't recommend trading bitcoin, though I know that people can do it and do do it successfully, yet a trading mindset seems to be the wrong one when it comes to bitcoin.. but how can you stop people from their inclinations?  whether it works out for them or not might be another story since if they keep engaging in that kind of behavior they increase their chances of putting themselves in a worse position as compared with the long term bitcoin investor who has historically ended up with pretty decent results, especially the longer the timeline that he had been accumulating BTC through buying and/or holding)

Because the more knowledge we get while investing, the more confident we can be in our long-term decisions. When we approach Bitcoin in that way we mean to say that Bitcoin is with more which means it's currently priced less than its true value and so it will be worth more if we hold it longer than a decade and more.

No argument from me about these points.

...

When you have basic knowledge about Bitcoin and then decide to run an investment, this will be very good, but you need to remember that when you decide to invest, you must continue to learn until you really understand it well and most importantly for anyone who wants to start, they must be able to keep their wallet keys well and do not lose access to their wallet after collecting Bitcoin.
Yes, in this forum we will be able to gain knowledge about Bitcoin and as a beginner it will certainly be better to choose to maintain their assets in the long term and also have to use funds that they will not take until the target they have set has not been reached.

I doubt that it is necessary for anyone to learn to hold their own private keys before getting into bitcoin or even to do that right away.  A person can get started with third-party custodial solutions and then transition into learning various kinds of self-custody possibilities.  The level of security that a person needs or even their decisions in regards to UTXO management could affect how they hold coins.

I keep reiterating in various threads that one of the most basic kinds of knowledge that a person needs to get started investing into bitcoin regards whether he has a disposable income or not that he is able to invest in bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, so even if he might just start with $100 per week, he should at least be able to figure out if that is within his disposable income or not, and as far as knowledge about bitcoin, he likely would ONLY need to consider that bitcoin is a good place to put money for 4-10 years or longer, and if he is not sure about that conclusion, then he can adjust his investment amount downward until he is comfortable and then he can learn about bitcoin enough to reach a conclusion that he is more comfortable investing higher amounts into bitcoin that would be locked away for 4-10 years or longer.

Anyone wanting to buy bitcoin on shorter than 4 year timelines would be trading rather than investing, and personally I consider bitcoin to be an investment rather than a trade, and surely there might be some folks who get into bitcoin and they are considering keeping it for shorter than 4 year timelines and maybe trying to play our current cycle to their advantage, and sure people can do what they like, yet I would still classify shorter than 4 year timelines as trades (or gambling) rather than investing.. which is fine.. people can do what they like, even dumb things (which might be the case if they are not able to spend enough time to actually learn what bitcoin is and/or to appreciate that bitcoin is likely better as an investment rather than as a trade.

Definitely correct and I would add that the higher the amount someone is able and willing to invest, the stronger would my recommendation be to manage their bitcoin holdings on their own.

I had meant to say something like that in the initial paragraph of my response, largely in terms of the size of the investment would likely affect self-custody considerations, so of course, the larger the investment the more likely that some of it, if not all of it might be considered to put into self-custody, and surely risks are being taken when held in third party custody, yet if someone is just starting to invest or is only investing $10 per week it could take several months before they even reach an amount that self-custody would be necessary and/or even practical.

But from my point of view, for the average scale investor, an Electrum wallet is ok. I have been using Electrum for a very long time now, never had any issues like crashing clients and there is tons of info material on how to properly use it, back it up and so on and so forth.

I should probably practice with electrum so that I might be able to recommend it.  I still doubt that it is necessary to learn about self-custody to get started, and also I frequently suggest that guys should not be creating small UTXOs. Yet sometimes we might need to practice with small UTXOs, especially now onchain transaction fees are fairly reasonable.

I think it is sometimes not even so much about the wallet you use, but how careful you are when it comes to basic user behavior. You know, there are days my mom still asks me whether she should open this mysterious email from Nigeria and I would probably not recommend my mother to run any clients on their computer that hold bitcoin funds. But if someone knows what to click and - more importantly - what not to click, then a desktop client can get you quite far in terms of security and manageability.

Social engineering and various other kinds of spoofing can be problematic for a lot of folks to get into some issue in which their devices are getting attacked or even that they sometimes don't know enough to keep themselves from giving away their coins or otherwise making their keys vulnerable  A lot of people do not even have computers, so they are completely working from mobile devices..

Anyone wanting to buy bitcoin on shorter than 4 year timelines would be trading rather than investing, and personally I consider bitcoin to be an investment rather than a trade

This is the really important point that people keep getting wrong because they are still shocked by the growth bitcoin as a value network has been going through so far. I like that you don't bring up periods that are too short, like 12 months or so. 12 months can fully wreck you and put you in a bad position, perhaps forcing you to liquidate your holdings when they are at their low during that period of time. 4 years sounds reasonable and of course 10 years, well that is a timeframe that gets me really interested. By then Bitcoin could be anywhere. The one thing I still can't appropriately assess is whether any significant progress in computing/quantum computing could become a threat for the encryption technology used in bitcoin.

Even if we have a longer investment timeline of 10 years or longer, we can still reassess if our investment thesis into bitcoin has gotten weaker.  It seems that there are always various concerns, and sometimes we can adjust our exposure levels based on our assessments of various concerns that we might have, and even if we mostly consider ourselves to be locked into our investment, we still can reassess from time to time and sometimes have some changes to our allocation based on our concerns.. including that the longer we are in, the more flexibility that we should end up having, especially if most of our BTC holdings is mostly in profits including it could be in multiple or even magnitudes of profits.. like for me, right now I consider myself to be around 64x profits, but yeah in late 2018 it got down to ONLY around 3x to 5x of profits and then in late 2022 it got down to ONLY  being around 16x profits, and so surely there can be some preference to be in higher profits when shaving off any cornz, but at the same time, there can also be some lessening of the worries when the profits are getting into the higher levels.

Yeah, people who have been investing in the last 4-ish years, might still have average costs per BTC that are int he $20k to $40k region, so their profit levels might still not be very high, so they still might even be in their relatively early accumulation stages too, so their average cost per BTC may continue to go up since they are still ongoingly buying BTC, so sometimes it can take a bit of time before the costs per BTC might start to either flatten or maybe even start to go down if a person might consider that selling some of their BTC to bring down their costs per BTC.  There are various ways to account for "costs per BTC."

Anyone could deem bitcoin a trade and if they wish they can leverage it like any other currency, but I concur that the nature of bitcoin is such that it would probably fit much better into the investment category (long term investment). It is of high interest to literally anyone in the world. For some it is for practical reasons, like circumventing sanctions or making use of its essentially unlimited borderless mobility, for others it is because whatever has true value for someone else, can have true value for me regardless of whether or not I use it under specific circumstances.

Bitcoin is a buy in my opinion and while I understand people who said they prefer to be careful when bitcoin was at pennies and dollars, it stood the test of time now and the question is how far it can really go.

There seems to be little reason to conclude that bitcoin is going to stop going up in value and price, especially over timelines that are 4-10 years or longer, even if the degree of price appreciation might not be as great, it still seems like a solid place to keep value and to increase options.  It seems that many folks are still not allocated enough to bitcoin, and even for some of us who might consider that we have enough of an allocation to bitcoin, we still might consider that we don't necessarily want to sell too much too soon, so we still might be selling other assets rather than interacting with our BTC.. even if we might have some price-based or time based selling practices with our BTC that might allow us to sell some of our BTC from time to time based on some conditions that we have set for ourselves.

[edited out]

We need to be very clear when talking about Bitcoin newbie by telling them that the only way you can make good profit from Bitcoin is by holding for 5 to 10 years or more and if he or she is still young he should endeavor to hold from 10 years and above this is what we should put in there front so they will bear in mind the kind of task that await them if they choose to invest in Bitcoin.
Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

I like to consider the long term in bitcoin as having decently good odds of bringing more options rather than talking about future profits, since it seems to me that if we are narrowing in on profits, then we are likely getting into a trading rather than an investment mindset.. and also there can be ways that once we arrive down the road of 10 years or more in which we might be starting to engage in price based or time based withdrawals, we still might not be cashing out large portions of our holdings, but just cashing out some portions from time to time as we might need it and then otherwise mostly keeping value in our bitcoin investment and continuing to let it grow.. since we might have other sources of income and/or investments that we would spend from prior to spending from our BTC holdings... so even if we might no longer get income from working, we might have other sources of income, yet our bitcoin might supplement our other sources of income but it might not be our only place to spend from which we might purposefully choose to spend from our bitcoin as one of the last resources rather than the first, including considering if we might even put specific criteria for spending our bitcoin that could be limited based on BTC price moves and/or limitations based on passage of time.

[SuperBitMan]

[edited out]

We need to be very clear when talking about Bitcoin newbie by telling them that the only way you can make good profit from Bitcoin is by holding for 5 to 10 years or more and if he or she is still young he should endeavor to hold from 10 years and above this is what we should put in there front so they will bear in mind the kind of task that await them if they choose to invest in Bitcoin.
Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

I like to consider the long term in bitcoin as having decently good odds of bringing more options rather than talking about future profits, since it seems to me that if we are narrowing in on profits, then we are likely getting into a trading rather than an investment mindset.. and also there can be ways that once we arrive down the road of 10 years or more in which we might be starting to engage in price based or time based withdrawals, we still might not be cashing out large portions of our holdings, but just cashing out some portions from time to time as we might need it and then otherwise mostly keeping value in our bitcoin investment and continuing to let it grow.. since we might have other sources of income and/or investments that we would spend from prior to spending from our BTC holdings... so even if we might no longer get income from working, we might have other sources of income, yet our bitcoin might supplement our other sources of income but it might not be our only place to spend from which we might purposefully choose to spend from our bitcoin as one of the last resources rather than the first, including considering if we might even put specific criteria for spending our bitcoin that could be limited based on BTC price moves and/or limitations based on passage of time.

You are right I was just pointing out on investment for long term there by making good profit and forgetting is like that it's no more investment mindset but trading mindset, from what you have explained it's also pointing out that one needs to have a source of income before going into Bitcoin investment so as not to depend only on Bitcoin as a source of income anyone who those that don't have investment mindset but trading mindset.
From your explanation I will say that is how Bitcoin investment should be, like you said our Bitcoin should be considered as the last resources rather than first which shows having a source of income is very important in Bitcoin investment your point is well taken and I agree with that those that don't have a source of income can't hold for long and they will always consider there Bitcoin investment first or second when there's any financial obligation.

[tiCeR]

...

...

I had meant to say something like that in the initial paragraph of my response, largely in terms of the size of the investment would likely affect self-custody considerations, so of course, the larger the investment the more likely that some of it, if not all of it might be considered to put into self-custody, and surely risks are being taken when held in third party custody, yet if someone is just starting to invest or is only investing $10 per week it could take several months before they even reach an amount that self-custody would be necessary and/or even practical.

Well, I am kind of surprised that you have no experience with it, but surely there are many wallets I have no experience with despite being a bitcoiner for a very long time. But electrum is very easy to handle, open source, allows you to do all the basic stuff and some advanced stuff as well.

There is one thing I should mention here about the electrum wallet (and probably applies to all the other wallets): the automatic fee calculation can be very problematic in times of high volatility/transaction fee volatility. That is why I prefer to click the advanced fee determination mode and choose one by myself. I have learnt here in the forum that Jochen Hoenicke did a great job providing insights into ongoing transaction volume in real time. Now this would probably be a bit too much asked from someone who prefers to be as low key as possible in handling their BTC funds, but it can't hurt to deal with it whenever there is time and motivation.

The electrum wallet sometimes suggests a fee that may have been appropriate ten minutes ago to get it through relatively quickly. But it can be off very very much! Like very much! But I have seen this with some other wallets, too. That is why the website I provided above does at least allow you to do your analysis and make your own call as to how long a transaction most likely needs to be processed and what the fee is that you are willing to pay for that respective time frame.

...

I should probably practice with electrum so that I might be able to recommend it.  I still doubt that it is necessary to learn about self-custody to get started, and also I frequently suggest that guys should not be creating small UTXOs. Yet sometimes we might need to practice with small UTXOs, especially now onchain transaction fees are fairly reasonable.

...

Social engineering and various other kinds of spoofing can be problematic for a lot of folks to get into some issue in which their devices are getting attacked or even that they sometimes don't know enough to keep themselves from giving away their coins or otherwise making their keys vulnerable  A lot of people do not even have computers, so they are completely working from mobile devices..

Yes but I think that those who use their mobile devices for literally everything, checking their instagram, doing their online banking, managing their BTC, signing contracts, doing whatever with it, are probably the most vulnerable sources for attacks.

Anyone wanting to buy bitcoin on shorter than 4 year timelines would be trading rather than investing, and personally I consider bitcoin to be an investment rather than a trade

...

Even if we have a longer investment timeline of 10 years or longer, we can still reassess if our investment thesis into bitcoin has gotten weaker.  It seems that there are always various concerns, and sometimes we can adjust our exposure levels based on our assessments of various concerns that we might have, and even if we mostly consider ourselves to be locked into our investment, we still can reassess from time to time and sometimes have some changes to our allocation based on our concerns.. including that the longer we are in, the more flexibility that we should end up having, especially if most of our BTC holdings is mostly in profits including it could be in multiple or even magnitudes of profits.. like for me, right now I consider myself to be around 64x profits, but yeah in late 2018 it got down to ONLY around 3x to 5x of profits and then in late 2022 it got down to ONLY  being around 16x profits, and so surely there can be some preference to be in higher profits when shaving off any cornz, but at the same time, there can also be some lessening of the worries when the profits are getting into the higher levels.

Yeah, people who have been investing in the last 4-ish years, might still have average costs per BTC that are int he $20k to $40k region, so their profit levels might still not be very high, so they still might even be in their relatively early accumulation stages too, so their average cost per BTC may continue to go up since they are still ongoingly buying BTC, so sometimes it can take a bit of time before the costs per BTC might start to either flatten or maybe even start to go down if a person might consider that selling some of their BTC to bring down their costs per BTC.  There are various ways to account for "costs per BTC."

And there is one major misconception that I think a lot of people still suffer from. They compare bitcoin's performance to bitcoin's performance from various time frames. (By the way, I have never asked myself why time frame is two words and timeline is one word, but google quickly let me know that it's quite complicated )

But instead they should stick to opportunity cost, which only makes sense when you compare two different assets or decisions. I either buy bitcoin or something else, or I decide to buy bitcoin or nothing. But as long as bitcoin is more promising than any other asset and the alternative to not buy anything at all, I should buy bitcoin.

People seem to be stuck on the idea that because bitcoin has made thousands and thousands of percentage points growing in value, it is not as a good an investment as it used to be. But they forget that those who benefitted from those gains took a higher risk as it didn't stand the test of time yet, they have been early to the party and gathered knowledge that others either weren't able to or didn't bother to gather, etc. Several more reasons. But I know quite some people who say that bitcoin was so amazing because it went 10x, 100x, and now it might only go 3x in the next 2 years and they understand they missed the boat. This begs the question: what other asset could give you 3x in such a short period of time? So, they compare bitcoin to bitcoin and in my opinion that's utterly wrong. They can compare bitcoin to any other asset, or bitcoin to doing nothing at all. But saying that bitcoin won't perform as well as it did in the last 1.5 decades and therefore they don't buy is obviously illogical.

...

There seems to be little reason to conclude that bitcoin is going to stop going up in value and price, especially over timelines that are 4-10 years or longer, even if the degree of price appreciation might not be as great, it still seems like a solid place to keep value and to increase options.  It seems that many folks are still not allocated enough to bitcoin, and even for some of us who might consider that we have enough of an allocation to bitcoin, we still might consider that we don't necessarily want to sell too much too soon, so we still might be selling other assets rather than interacting with our BTC.. even if we might have some price-based or time based selling practices with our BTC that might allow us to sell some of our BTC from time to time based on some conditions that we have set for ourselves.

Yes, I know that you are rightfully not the guy who says this is the 100% bet everyone in life has been waiting for. Nothing is 100% and this is why I mentioned technological advancements whose consequences I simply cannot grasp. But most of the core values that bitcoin represents and protects seem to be best preserved in the hands of the bitcoin network. I can't yet see how this should be any different in the near future. And the larger the value of the network becomes, the higher is the incentive for the people involved to keep it updated and strengthened in order to make it robust enough to not fight against, but grow along with technological advancements.

[Sim_card]

[edited out]

We need to be very clear when talking about Bitcoin newbie by telling them that the only way you can make good profit from Bitcoin is by holding for 5 to 10 years or more and if he or she is still young he should endeavor to hold from 10 years and above this is what we should put in there front so they will bear in mind the kind of task that await them if they choose to invest in Bitcoin.
Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

I like to consider the long term in bitcoin as having decently good odds of bringing more options rather than talking about future profits, since it seems to me that if we are narrowing in on profits, then we are likely getting into a trading rather than an investment mindset.. and also there can be ways that once we arrive down the road of 10 years or more in which we might be starting to engage in price based or time based withdrawals, we still might not be cashing out large portions of our holdings, but just cashing out some portions from time to time as we might need it and then otherwise mostly keeping value in our bitcoin investment and continuing to let it grow.. since we might have other sources of income and/or investments that we would spend from prior to spending from our BTC holdings... so even if we might no longer get income from working, we might have other sources of income, yet our bitcoin might supplement our other sources of income but it might not be our only place to spend from which we might purposefully choose to spend from our bitcoin as one of the last resources rather than the first, including considering if we might even put specific criteria for spending our bitcoin that could be limited based on BTC price moves and/or limitations based on passage of time.

I agree with you that profit should not be a new investor target when he is investing ion bitcoin for long term because he might sell too quick and might choose to make his bitcoin his first resources rather than the last because that will impose depreciation on your bitcoin portfolio quick. However, if you have the mindset of making your bitcoin investment your last option of withdrawal from the beginning of your bitcoin investment, it will make you to look for various means of income and establish some, so that they can be the ones that are your first option to spend from.

Also, it will make you work hard to make sure that you strengthen your financial stability so that you can even survive without your bitcoin investment in future, because you are not going to solely depend on your bitcoin as the only retirement funds and that will help the size f your bitcoin to keep on growing overtime even at old age because you only shave of some little profit from your bitcoin once in a while.

[edited out]

We need to be very clear when talking about Bitcoin newbie by telling them that the only way you can make good profit from Bitcoin is by holding for 5 to 10 years or more and if he or she is still young he should endeavor to hold from 10 years and above this is what we should put in there front so they will bear in mind the kind of task that await them if they choose to invest in Bitcoin.
Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

I like to consider the long term in bitcoin as having decently good odds of bringing more options rather than talking about future profits, since it seems to me that if we are narrowing in on profits, then we are likely getting into a trading rather than an investment mindset.. and also there can be ways that once we arrive down the road of 10 years or more in which we might be starting to engage in price based or time based withdrawals, we still might not be cashing out large portions of our holdings, but just cashing out some portions from time to time as we might need it and then otherwise mostly keeping value in our bitcoin investment and continuing to let it grow.. since we might have other sources of income and/or investments that we would spend from prior to spending from our BTC holdings... so even if we might no longer get income from working, we might have other sources of income, yet our bitcoin might supplement our other sources of income but it might not be our only place to spend from which we might purposefully choose to spend from our bitcoin as one of the last resources rather than the first, including considering if we might even put specific criteria for spending our bitcoin that could be limited based on BTC price moves and/or limitations based on passage of time.

You are right I was just pointing out on investment for long term there by making good profit and forgetting is like that it's no more investment mindset but trading mindset, from what you have explained it's also pointing out that one needs to have a source of income before going into Bitcoin investment so as not to depend only on Bitcoin as a source of income anyone who those that don't have investment mindset but trading mindset.
From your explanation I will say that is how Bitcoin investment should be, like you said our Bitcoin should be considered as the last resources rather than first which shows having a source of income is very important in Bitcoin investment your point is well taken and I agree with that those that don't have a source of income can't hold for long and they will always consider there Bitcoin investment first or second when there's any financial obligation.

It is not just to have source of income alone, but you must have a discretionary income which is the extra money that will be left after you have taken care of all your monthly expenses and needs. That left over is part of what you use to invest in bitcoin. Some people keep the extra in the bank, while some squander it. Some people have income but they don't have discretionary income, such people cannot invest in bitcoin only if they get a second means of income or cut down their expenses.

If you use the money that is not your discretionary income to invest, you are gambling because when you need the money, you will sell your bitcoin at loss if there is a dip in price at that moment. But using part of your discretionary income that you will not need for long will help you continue investing and hodli for long.

[adultcrypto]

You've nailed it on the head with your detailed explanation Jay thank you. It is so true that the best knowledge to have as a beginner is the knowing of the true value of Bitcoin. The true value is revealed the longer we hold on to it. If an investor is having double minded toward Bitcoin then he should just keep buying and do whatever he likes. Only a few can comprehend what Bitcoin is worth. There is a saying, 'Many are called but few are chosen'

People mistake buy and hold to just buying Bitcoin and holding it for months, a few years or so. The real definition of investing in Bitcoin is buying Bitcoin and holding it for more than a decade. Anything between 4 to 10 years is gambling. Because the more knowledge we get while investing, the more confident we can be in our long-term decisions. When we approach Bitcoin in that way we mean to say that Bitcoin is with more which means it's currently priced less than its true value and so it will be worth more if we hold it longer than a decade and more.

We need to be very clear when talking about Bitcoin newbie by telling them that the only way you can make good profit from Bitcoin is by holding for 5 to 10 years or more and if he or she is still young he should endeavor to hold from 10 years and above this is what we should put in there front so they will bear in mind the kind of task that await them if they choose to invest in Bitcoin.
Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

The choice of the range of years suggested by @JayJuanGee was a guide to enable anyone, including newbies and experienced investor develop the right mindset and approach to bitcoin investment. The range of 4-10 years was reasonably chosen based on the history of the market cycle of bitcoin that have seen new ATH every 4 years interval and for the fact that bitcoin have continue to generate more profits as the number of years of investment increases. There could be other ways of profiting from bitcoin including short term investment but because of the dangers associated with thinking short term including the chances of selling at a loss, it is highly recommended to opt for long term investment.

In addition to the profitability of long-term investment is the peace of mind that long term investment brings. As opposed to short term investment, long term investors are not easily disturbed by sharp rises or drops in price neither are they always on the chart monitoring the price of the market because they simply buy, store it safely and then give it enough time to grow. Long term is actually the best way to invest in bitcoin because the advantages are just numerous.

[JayJuanGee]

...

...

I had meant to say something like that in the initial paragraph of my response, largely in terms of the size of the investment would likely affect self-custody considerations, so of course, the larger the investment the more likely that some of it, if not all of it might be considered to put into self-custody, and surely risks are being taken when held in third party custody, yet if someone is just starting to invest or is only investing $10 per week it could take several months before they even reach an amount that self-custody would be necessary and/or even practical.

Well, I am kind of surprised that you have no experience with it, but surely there are many wallets I have no experience with despite being a bitcoiner for a very long time. But electrum is very easy to handle, open source, allows you to do all the basic stuff and some advanced stuff as well.

There is one thing I should mention here about the electrum wallet (and probably applies to all the other wallets): the automatic fee calculation can be very problematic in times of high volatility/transaction fee volatility. That is why I prefer to click the advanced fee determination mode and choose one by myself. I have learnt here in the forum that Jochen Hoenicke did a great job providing insights into ongoing transaction volume in real time. Now this would probably be a bit too much asked from someone who prefers to be as low key as possible in handling their BTC funds, but it can't hurt to deal with it whenever there is time and motivation.

The electrum wallet sometimes suggests a fee that may have been appropriate ten minutes ago to get it through relatively quickly. But it can be off very very much! Like very much! But I have seen this with some other wallets, too. That is why the website I provided above does at least allow you to do your analysis and make your own call as to how long a transaction most likely needs to be processed and what the fee is that you are willing to pay for that respective time frame.

https://mempool.space/ is also good for estimating fees based on the fees that were being processed in previous blocks

...

I should probably practice with electrum so that I might be able to recommend it.  I still doubt that it is necessary to learn about self-custody to get started, and also I frequently suggest that guys should not be creating small UTXOs. Yet sometimes we might need to practice with small UTXOs, especially now onchain transaction fees are fairly reasonable.

...

Social engineering and various other kinds of spoofing can be problematic for a lot of folks to get into some issue in which their devices are getting attacked or even that they sometimes don't know enough to keep themselves from giving away their coins or otherwise making their keys vulnerable  A lot of people do not even have computers, so they are completely working from mobile devices..

Yes but I think that those who use their mobile devices for literally everything, checking their instagram, doing their online banking, managing their BTC, signing contracts, doing whatever with it, are probably the most vulnerable sources for attacks.

Sometimes I am not sure what to say to people who do not have a computer, yet we should not expect that you have to own a computer to own bitcoin, yet maybe after a certain amount of bitcoin, it might be practical to also own some kind of a computer?  There are air-gapped harware wallets that communicate via QR codes.  Sometimes it can be difficult to make any recommendations beyond our own experiences, and there are ONLY so many hours in a day to get experiences, too.

Anyone wanting to buy bitcoin on shorter than 4 year timelines would be trading rather than investing, and personally I consider bitcoin to be an investment rather than a trade

...

Even if we have a longer investment timeline of 10 years or longer, we can still reassess if our investment thesis into bitcoin has gotten weaker.  It seems that there are always various concerns, and sometimes we can adjust our exposure levels based on our assessments of various concerns that we might have, and even if we mostly consider ourselves to be locked into our investment, we still can reassess from time to time and sometimes have some changes to our allocation based on our concerns.. including that the longer we are in, the more flexibility that we should end up having, especially if most of our BTC holdings is mostly in profits including it could be in multiple or even magnitudes of profits.. like for me, right now I consider myself to be around 64x profits, but yeah in late 2018 it got down to ONLY around 3x to 5x of profits and then in late 2022 it got down to ONLY  being around 16x profits, and so surely there can be some preference to be in higher profits when shaving off any cornz, but at the same time, there can also be some lessening of the worries when the profits are getting into the higher levels.

Yeah, people who have been investing in the last 4-ish years, might still have average costs per BTC that are int he $20k to $40k region, so their profit levels might still not be very high, so they still might even be in their relatively early accumulation stages too, so their average cost per BTC may continue to go up since they are still ongoingly buying BTC, so sometimes it can take a bit of time before the costs per BTC might start to either flatten or maybe even start to go down if a person might consider that selling some of their BTC to bring down their costs per BTC.  There are various ways to account for "costs per BTC."

And there is one major misconception that I think a lot of people still suffer from. They compare bitcoin's performance to bitcoin's performance from various time frames. (By the way, I have never asked myself why time frame is two words and timeline is one word, but google quickly let me know that it's quite complicated )

 I am not sure if I use the terms timeline and time frame correctly, since it seems that sometimes I might say time line and/or timeframe.. but it does seem that ai mostly say timeline and time frame... but whatever, there might be a bit of an osmosis element in terms of just repeating how it had been previously remembered to have been seen... .going from memory, even though sometimes it does help to look up the words to appreciate if we are using them in a kind of understood way.  Sometimes I also make up words, if the made up word seems to better describe what I am wanting to say.

But instead they should stick to opportunity cost, which only makes sense when you compare two different assets or decisions. I either buy bitcoin or something else, or I decide to buy bitcoin or nothing. But as long as bitcoin is more promising than any other asset and the alternative to not buy anything at all, I should buy bitcoin.

I understand that investment opportunities are going to vary for people, and sometimes people will take inferior investment paths because they take the path of least resistance.  

If I take my own situation as an example.  I am not sure if I would have had invested into bitcoin prior to when I got into it, partially based on how I was investing prior to 2013, which was largely investing into a 401k like asset that had employer matching and tax deferral, and I had also had times in which I was investing into business type stuff and property type stuff, so with the combination of those, I tended to have a minimum of investing 10% of my salary, yet sometimes I had periods of investing up to 30%, depending on what else I had going on and my abilities to accomplish that.

There are so many folks who struggle to even be able to save/invest 10% of their salary, so if they might be getting pretty close to 10% with their investment into the traditional assets, then they might have to be inspired to invest more in order to make sure that they have a bitcoin position, too.  If they do not have very many other investment opportunties, then the case for bitcoin becomes easier, and for me, in late 2013, I was no longer eligible for my 401k option, so I became anxious to find some kind of a substitute that would be an equivalent or perhaps better, and I found bitcoin to fit that space very well, and so in that sense, I was even inspired to invest somewhat aggressively into bitcoin (and with some regularity) with a tentative goal of perhaps being able to meet the size of my previous investments into my 401k within 10-15 years... So I thought that if my ongoing investment into bitcoin was to be able to be the same size as my 401k in 10-15 years, then I would have had largely done as good as expected in terms of being able to supplement or complement that 401k.

Spoil alert is that even though my BTC investment largely underperformed expectations for around 2.5 years, it largely ended up making up for lost ground in late 2016 and thereafter, so even in mid-2017, it was getting close to matching the size of my 401k.....so surely I ended up making adjustments in my timeline expectations based on BTC's performance, including that not really being able to completely have confidence in regards to the ongoing volatility, yet being able to retain enough conviction to continue to hold it through the later 2018 downturn and our thereafter volatile price movements... and so some of the conviction also likely end s up coming from ongoing studying of bitcoin, yet still figuring out if there might be some additional confidence by pulling some value out of bitcoin, too... since once any of us has enough in bitcoin or maybe more than enough we can either start to divert our investments into other areas or maybe we might even take some value out of bitcoin from time to time, whether periodic price-based withdrawals or periodic time-based withdrawals.

People seem to be stuck on the idea that because bitcoin has made thousands and thousands of percentage points growing in value, it is not as a good an investment as it used to be. But they forget that those who benefitted from those gains took a higher risk as it didn't stand the test of time yet, they have been early to the party and gathered knowledge that others either weren't able to or didn't bother to gather, etc.

Surely, the earlier that any of us came to bitcoin there were uncertainties, and there were quite a few who got purged out, and so in the end, each of those of us who stayed in bitcoin had to still figure out our position size and how aggressive that we were able to feel comfort in being... so yeah, there ended up being decently sized upside, and the downside was always there, yet at the same time, right now it seems that bitcoin's investment thesis is stronger with less upside and even less risk of downside, while at the same time, we do still seem to be in the early days of bitcoin's adoption, even though always after various BTC price runs there are so many trying to pigeon-hole bitcoin into "mature" asset territories, and sure bitcoin continues to become more and more mature, yet I have my doubts when anyone is trying to proclaim that bitcoin's glory days are gone.

Yeah, sure you would have had been better off to buy bitcoin yesterday, but we cannot turn back the clock, so each of us needs to decide from today in regards to future potential, and it seems to me that bitcoin still is amongst the best (if not the best) of investments currently available, even if its upside is likely less exponential as historically it has been.

Even with myself, there surely were ways that I could have had average costs per BTC in the $200 to $800 price ranges, yet instead my current costs per BTC are right around $1k per BTC, so yeah, assertions can be made that "mistakes were made," which would not be untrue, and it is likely that any of us are not going to get the most BTC and the cheapest possible prices.  We are going to have to do as best as we can and see where that gets us 10-15 years down the road, and those guys who continue to refuse to take action are likely ongoingly prejudiced by their failure/refusal to take actions,

since even the guy who started investing $100 per week into bitcoin four years ago and who went through two price tops in 2021, he is still going to be way better off for having had started earlier rather than waiting and not being able to show progress with that $100 per week, since over the past 4 years he would have had invested near $21k and he would have accumulated nearly 0.65 BTC, which surely would put him in quite a decent place, and his place would be even better if he would have had invested more, but guys can ONLY do as much as they can and the passage of time is going to tend to be their friend.  So the longer that we go back, the better our results are going to end up being, even if our investment was not necessarily a high amount of weekly amount, it can still add up with the passage of time.

Several more reasons. But I know quite some people who say that bitcoin was so amazing because it went 10x, 100x, and now it might only go 3x in the next 2 years and they understand they missed the boat. This begs the question: what other asset could give you 3x in such a short period of time?

 People get overly greedy, and I recall having all kinds of debates with shitcoiners in 2017 in regards to supposedly how bitcoin was so limited in its upside potential as compared with various shitcoins, and it seems that history is likely to repeat itself for those who get distracted into shitcoins, and sure it could be true that bitcoin might ONLY get 3x from here.. but many of us likely realize that bitcoin is also around 1,000x better than gold, which is 20,000x from here, but still it could take 50-200 years for bitcoin to go up that much, and surely many of us do not likely have 50-200 year investment time horizons, yet still we should be able to appreciate that bitcoin still has decently good upside potential as compared with other kinds of alternative investment choices, and we need to consider both upside and downside potential in order to really figure out where to invest, how to invest and how much to allocate to bitcoin as compared with other places that we might choose to place our time, energies and value.

So, they compare bitcoin to bitcoin and in my opinion that's utterly wrong. They can compare bitcoin to any other asset, or bitcoin to doing nothing at all. But saying that bitcoin won't perform as well as it did in the last 1.5 decades and therefore they don't buy is obviously illogical.

Yep.  We cannot go back, but sure we can see how the comparison of bitcoin to bitcoin likely ends up in a futile search for the next bitcoin rather than appreciating bitcoin for what it is, even if some of the upside potential has been taking out from being a later adopter.

...

There seems to be little reason to conclude that bitcoin is going to stop going up in value and price, especially over timelines that are 4-10 years or longer, even if the degree of price appreciation might not be as great, it still seems like a solid place to keep value and to increase options.  It seems that many folks are still not allocated enough to bitcoin, and even for some of us who might consider that we have enough of an allocation to bitcoin, we still might consider that we don't necessarily want to sell too much too soon, so we still might be selling other assets rather than interacting with our BTC.. even if we might have some price-based or time based selling practices with our BTC that might allow us to sell some of our BTC from time to time based on some conditions that we have set for ourselves.

Yes, I know that you are rightfully not the guy who says this is the 100% bet everyone in life has been waiting for. Nothing is 100% and this is why I mentioned technological advancements whose consequences I simply cannot grasp. But most of the core values that bitcoin represents and protects seem to be best preserved in the hands of the bitcoin network. I can't yet see how this should be any different in the near future. And the larger the value of the network becomes, the higher is the incentive for the people involved to keep it updated and strengthened in order to make it robust enough to not fight against, but grow along with technological advancements.

Various network effect do seem to continue to grow.. which continues to have affects on UPward pressures on BTC prices wether we just refer them as Metcalfe type growths or even refer to the 7 network effects that were outlined by Trace Mayer.

[DaNNy001]

I agree with you that profit should not be a new investor target when he is investing ion bitcoin for long term because he might sell too quick and might choose to make his bitcoin his first resources rather than the last because that will impose depreciation on your bitcoin portfolio quick. However, if you have the mindset of making your bitcoin investment your last option of withdrawal from the beginning of your bitcoin investment, it will make you to look for various means of income and establish some, so that they can be the ones that are your first option to spend from.

Also, it will make you work hard to make sure that you strengthen your financial stability so that you can even survive without your bitcoin investment in future, because you are not going to solely depend on your bitcoin as the only retirement funds and that will help the size f your bitcoin to keep on growing overtime even at old age because you only shave of some little profit from your bitcoin once in a while.

Well the basic problem with newbie investors most fo the time is that all what they put their mind is how quickly and potentially Bitcoin investment yeild profit but they forget that it's not as easy as they tag the profit to come so swiftly and quick. As a Bitcoin investor, first things first what should be on your mind is that you don't earn or get tangible profits without you having to invest for long term and another is knowing and having that sacrifice mentality because in this life nothing actually comes easy and if you see Bitcoin as a simple ABC route to escaping your financial problems instantly then you would probably get more stuck. Bitcoin investment no doubt is profitable but not you holding it as an asset that you expect to blow up within an twinkle of an eye.

[red4slash]

Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

Precisely when we are beginners our views will be more different especially after knowing the concept of investment so it will not be possible for them to do it in a short period of time as you mean especially for weekly or monthly income because sometimes in the first few months even beginners who will invest (for the long term) they always buy more than people who have set purchases within a certain period of time, it is because they beginners have no other thoughts other than buying when they can so they will continue to try to buy every time they have money and I think everyone must have felt the situation in a period like this even though slowly the intensity was slightly reduced according to ability.

Actually when someone has started to be interested in bitcoin then without the need for sweet words they will look for all forms of information related to bitcoin independently so in this case it does not matter when someone talks about speculation or positive or negative things about bitcoin because in the end the confidence when doing research independently will actually make us sure that the path chosen can indeed be said to be right even though it is only for yourself.

[sotelorene]

I agree with you that profit should not be a new investor target when he is investing ion bitcoin for long term because he might sell too quick and might choose to make his bitcoin his first resources rather than the last because that will impose depreciation on your bitcoin portfolio quick. However, if you have the mindset of making your bitcoin investment your last option of withdrawal from the beginning of your bitcoin investment, it will make you to look for various means of income and establish some, so that they can be the ones that are your first option to spend from.

Also, it will make you work hard to make sure that you strengthen your financial stability so that you can even survive without your bitcoin investment in future, because you are not going to solely depend on your bitcoin as the only retirement funds and that will help the size f your bitcoin to keep on growing overtime even at old age because you only shave of some little profit from your bitcoin once in a while.

Well the basic problem with newbie investors most fo the time is that all what they put their mind is how quickly and potentially Bitcoin investment yeild profit but they forget that it's not as easy as they tag the profit to come so swiftly and quick. As a Bitcoin investor, first things first what should be on your mind is that you don't earn or get tangible profits without you having to invest for long term and another is knowing and having that sacrifice mentality because in this life nothing actually comes easy and if you see Bitcoin as a simple ABC route to escaping your financial problems instantly then you would probably get more stuck. Bitcoin investment no doubt is profitable but not you holding it as an asset that you expect to blow up within an twinkle of an eye.

Perfectly said, the way most newbie is going about Bitcoin investment or thinking about it is something I can't really explain and I want to let them know that Bitcoin investment is not all rosey though it's a very nice investment but that doesn't means one can get rich overnight and secondly, I don't blame some newbie reason because the person that introduce them may not have actually tell them in detailed what Bitcoin investment is all about and this is the reason why most or some newbie have the wrong idea about Bitcoin investment and sometimes too, newbie forget to ask some necessary question because they have heard how sweet and nice Bitcoin investment is and refuses to inquire about the other side of it which is very wrong there are some mistake that can give or cause one a lifetime regret and that kind of mistake shouldn't be made.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

edited out

I won't even entrust my bitcoin to any charity home if in the eventuality of things that I don't have someone to inherit my bitcoin at my old age. Instead of me giving up my bitcoin to people I don't really know if they will utilise the funds they way I would have intended in my absence. I will donate it to the forum. Because I understand that here is were bitcoin is better understood and appreciated. People here know what bitcoin is all about and it will be properly managed here, and it will be in safe hands. People should stop giving out bitcoin to individuals and organisations that don't appreciate what bitcoin is all about, because they will sell it off and squander the money. But if we donate bitcoin to places where it is appreciated like the this forum, it will be preserved and utilize for the right course in advancement of the forum and enhance further research about bitcoin development in the future.

The forum might not need your funds since with its level of impact, it should have lot of BTC in its treasury, hence your donation to the forum might be insignificant and poorly felt, if it is even felt at all, sometimes it is good to be human before being staunch in your principles. I believe in giving out funds to those that are in dire need of it and can never repay back. In that same scenario, charity is the best and when I mean charity, I don't  necessarily mean giving the BTC to them entirely, you can sell it and support the education of the children in the orphanage, erect structures for them, support the poor and displaced. e.g victims of the war between Ukraine and Russia.

It is a good publicity for bitcoin that an old investor without heirs sold a good percentage of his holdings to donate to charity, might trigger some people to have positive mindsets about bitcoin and embrace it.

Learnt today that there are individuals that know nothing about Bitcoin but have been holding since 2020
Came across one today and was quite shocked.
Guess knowledge isn't the biggest decider of who holds or trades.

What kind of ridiculousness is that, not knowing bitcoin but holding it since 2020? Is it not a strange thing when they don't know anything including the basis of what bitcoin is but holding it since 2020.

Although I feel that in the end what he did was very appropriate by being in bitcoin but in the end saying that knowledge is not a determinant is a mistake because in the end knowledge is still very important and we will know it (in this case bitcoin) only by studying it so what's the point when you don't know about bitcoin but are in bitcoin for a long time especially from the collection made from purchases that use money of course.

Although I do not totally believe in its possibility, I might still try to create some exception for them, maybe they inherited it from a parent or guardian and have not had much need for funds and they are still holding it, maybe they were part of the congregation of one or more bitcoin enthusiasts. they welcomed the idea of using some money to purchase the digital gold and have not given it much interest to learn more about the investment they made years back.
I think they should know a bit more about DCA to accumulate more BTC and increase their portfolio periodically so they can have better gains in the long term, and I also think they should be more informed on ways to secure their investments through decentralization, securing their private keys properly and ways to prevent scam activities on their devices.

[Dailyscript]

Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

It is advised that beginners should make personal research and have knowledge of what they are getting into and not just follow any advise they see online. Only a child can be fooled around with the sweet talks from influencer, colleague or peers. Any Investment we plan to do it is important that we have our own convictions based on the knowledge we have gotten from it. Any choice we make after that is left for us to bear whether good or bad. No doubt that there are people who because they are successful at their investment they will make Bitcoin investment look like a child plays, like there isn't any much to do. Of course, no hard labor or compulsory daily presence needed but the decisions we make at every stage, or time in the market matters a lot.

The best knowledge to get in Bitcoin as a beginner is understanding the value of Bitcoin. The value's of Bitcoin consist of knowing the level of increase in price it will have in a number of decades, it involves knowing that Bitcoin cant fall to zero like other shitcoins, its knowing that you can depend on it to store your fiat value in a long run against inflation. There are other values of investing in Bitcoin, so much more that i cant explain all.

[Ruttoshi]

Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

It is advised that beginners should make personal research and have knowledge of what they are getting into and not just follow any advise they see online. Only a child can be fooled around with the sweet talks from influencer, colleague or peers. Any Investment we plan to do it is important that we have our own convictions based on the knowledge we have gotten from it. Any choice we make after that is left for us to bear whether good or bad. No doubt that there are people who because they are successful at their investment they will make Bitcoin investment look like a child plays, like there isn't any much to do. Of course, no hard labor or compulsory daily presence needed but the decisions we make at every stage, or time in the market matters a lot.

The best knowledge to get in Bitcoin as a beginner is understanding the value of Bitcoin. The value's of Bitcoin consist of knowing the level of increase in price it will have in a number of decades , it involves knowing that Bitcoin cant fall to zero like other shitcoins, its knowing that you can depend on it to store your fiat value in a long run against inflation. There are other values of investing in Bitcoin, so much more that i cant explain all.

It is impossible for anyone to know the price of bitcoin in the next decades since bitcoin price is unpredictable and past record is not a guarantee that the future will play out the same way. A new investor only needs to believe in bitcoin after checking the price history of bitcoin and see that the price of bitcoin going up in future has high odds than it going down because bitcoin is still going to mature more and more overtime.

After the new investor have the believe in bitcoin that it is worth investing in and have the basic knowledge of bitcoin, he needs to know how much of his discretionary income he can use to start buying bitcoin without stress, so that he can continue buying with such amount every week or month using DCA method. If the investor has not fully believe in bitcoin potentials to grow exponentially in future due to little knowledge he has in the beginning, he can start investing in little amount, since he is learning and investing at the same time, after he increased his knowledge and have the true picture of bitcoin and believes in it, he can increase the amount that he is using to invest in bitcoin and become more aggressive in buying.

The most important thing is having a long-term mindset because that is what will make you appreciate bitcoin as an investment and a store of value rather than messing around with your bitcoin because of short term profits.

[Stablexcoin]

It is impossible for anyone to know the price of bitcoin in the next decades since bitcoin price is unpredictable and past record is not a guarantee that the future will play out the same way.

Your absolutely right and thanks for pointing that out for Dailyscript and other investors who might have misunderstood that part. The probability of knowing what the price of Bitcoin is 0%. We can analyze and with our analysis make predictions on what it may be. Either being idealistic or realistic but all is full of speculation. Our expectation may come through at the end of the day but that doesn't mean we were certain of the price of Bitcoin in the next few years. True investors will know that the value of Bitcoin would worth more in the future, the price is unspecific but sure its going to be worth more in the future.

A new investor only needs to believe in bitcoin after checking the price history of bitcoin and see that the price of bitcoin going up in future has high odds than it going down because bitcoin is still going to mature more and more overtime.

No, i don't expect an investor to believe in Bitcoin by just checking the price of Bitcoin in the past or currently. He must understand the nature of Bitcoin, and grasp knowledge from it. Only then he will have his personal conviction on Bitcoin and believe in it. The price being assured to go up for years than going down is what build trust to choose it as the best asset to invest in. But believing is witnessing. When we start to invest with the knowledge we have and things start working out properly based on our goals, strategies and longevity then we are not true believers because we would rather trust in holding it for more than 10 years rather than trusting it in the short term

[Cryptoprincess101]

It is impossible for anyone to know the price of bitcoin in the next decades since bitcoin price is unpredictable and past record is not a guarantee that the future will play out the same way.

Your absolutely right and thanks for pointing that out for Dailyscript and other investors who might have misunderstood that part. The probability of knowing what the price of Bitcoin is 0%. We can analyze and with our analysis make predictions on what it may be. Either being idealistic or realistic but all is full of speculation. Our expectation may come through at the end of the day but that doesn't mean we were certain of the price of Bitcoin in the next few years. True investors will know that the value of Bitcoin would worth more in the future, the price is unspecific but sure its going to be worth more in the future.

It is true that we can't know what the price of bitcoin will be in time coming but even though we are making speculations based on it's current price movements and it's price activity in the past, but it is also good to have some understanding about some of the characteristics and factors that leads to it's price movements as it will help to evaluate if the price will likely go upwards or downwards in the future. Speculations are not just mere guesses as it may seem but combination of both present and past price performances which even if it is not accurate in the future but it can be close to being accurate and this speculations are also what gives investors hopes and confidence about their investment.

[ultrloa]

It is impossible for anyone to know the price of bitcoin in the next decades since bitcoin price is unpredictable and past record is not a guarantee that the future will play out the same way.

Your absolutely right and thanks for pointing that out for Dailyscript and other investors who might have misunderstood that part. The probability of knowing what the price of Bitcoin is 0%. We can analyze and with our analysis make predictions on what it may be. Either being idealistic or realistic but all is full of speculation. Our expectation may come through at the end of the day but that doesn't mean we were certain of the price of Bitcoin in the next few years. True investors will know that the value of Bitcoin would worth more in the future, the price is unspecific but sure its going to be worth more in the future.

It is true that we can't know what the price of bitcoin will be in time coming but even though we are making speculations based on it's current price movements and it's price activity in the past, but it is also good to have some understanding about some of the characteristics and factors that leads to it's price movements as it will help to evaluate if the price will likely go upwards or downwards in the future. Speculations are not just mere guesses as it may seem but combination of both present and past price performances which even if it is not accurate in the future but it can be close to being accurate and this speculations are also what gives investors hopes and confidence about their investment.

We are not just guessing about the future when it comes with bitcoin, since we have certain certain things to look forward on why price growth is possible for this coin.

This is the certain factors I see on why bitcoin have great chance to pump in future.

Halving
Adaption either with government or also with business institution
Mainstream media exposure

With that having that price upper trend is inevitable, we see it happening before and we provably see that to happen in future especially that right now bitcoin gather lots of attention and recognition. Bitcoin is not just an speculative asset but it has certain basis that good growth is going to happen. Positive changes creates good demand and this is what make bitcoin as strong currency.

[GeorgeJohn]

It is true that we can't know what the price of bitcoin will be in time coming but even though we are making speculations based on it's current price movements and it's price activity in the past, accurate and this speculations are also what gives investors hopes and confidence about their investment.

The price of bitcoin is unpredictable and that's why nobody can stand firmly to say that he or she knows what price of bitcoin will be in next month,
Anyone suggestions or speculations towards the price of bitcoin in next Month or two months that the price of bitcoin will be in a particular price, do not believe to the person seriously, because I know quite well that price of bitcoin is unpredictable and you don't need predict what you don't know about, because many users is found of that, predicting base on assumptions, to be sincere bitcoin price increases because of the level of demand, its obvious that demand or new investors like big companies that come in, in bitcoin, they're one that makes bitcoin investment to Skyrocket, its not based on month

[Promocodeudo]

Some people will sugar talk Bitcoin investment to the point newbies will be Bitcoin can even be used as a source of income were one can be making money weekly or monthly even trading Bitcoin won't give you gain weekly or monthly so no need sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies.
When we stop sugar talking Bitcoin investment to newbies it will help them know the true value of Bitcoin one can tell them to imagine how much profit those that has been accumulating Bitcoin for 10 years now have gotten with this you have given them the best knowledge which is knowing the true value of Bitcoin.

It is advised that beginners should make personal research and have knowledge of what they are getting into and not just follow any advise they see online. Only a child can be fooled around with the sweet talks from influencer, colleague or peers. Any Investment we plan to do it is important that we have our own convictions based on the knowledge we have gotten from it. Any choice we make after that is left for us to bear whether good or bad. No doubt that there are people who because they are successful at their investment they will make Bitcoin investment look like a child plays, like there isn't any much to do. Of course, no hard labor or compulsory daily presence needed but the decisions we make at every stage, or time in the market matters a lot.

The best knowledge to get in Bitcoin as a beginner is understanding the value of Bitcoin. The value's of Bitcoin consist of knowing the level of increase in price it will have in a number of decades , it involves knowing that Bitcoin cant fall to zero like other shitcoins, its knowing that you can depend on it to store your fiat value in a long run against inflation. There are other values of investing in Bitcoin, so much more that i cant explain all.

It is impossible for anyone to know the price of bitcoin in the next decades since bitcoin price is unpredictable and past record is not a guarantee that the future will play out the same way. A new investor only needs to believe in bitcoin after checking the price history of bitcoin and see that the price of bitcoin going up in future has high odds than it going down because bitcoin is still going to mature more and more overtime.

After the new investor have the believe in bitcoin that it is worth investing in and have the basic knowledge of bitcoin, he needs to know how much of his discretionary income he can use to start buying bitcoin without stress, so that he can continue buying with such amount every week or month using DCA method. If the investor has not fully believe in bitcoin potentials to grow exponentially in future due to little knowledge he has in the beginning, he can start investing in little amount, since he is learning and investing at the same time, after he increased his knowledge and have the true picture of bitcoin and believes in it, he can increase the amount that he is using to invest in bitcoin and become more aggressive in buying.

The most important thing is having a long-term mindset because that is what will make you appreciate bitcoin as an investment and a store of value rather than messing around with your bitcoin because of short term profits.

Yea, your statement is correct, personally i believe that volatility is the reason why  Bitcoin price is unpredictable as such we can't rely on any history to know what the price will be today, tommorow or in the future, I think a new investor can not be convinced in a Short while, he has to keep buying with what he can afford continuously,slowly and  steadily with time he will know if the investment is worth it or not, Bitcoin is said to be a long-term investment so for a new investor to get his expected result he must keep investing and hodl for a long-term because you can't get what you want if you are not into the investment, first and foremost you be part of the system before you can be able to see some things happen.

A new investor at all time should make it a priority to use the amount that he can maintain to invest in Bitcoin, it is advisable not to make poor decisions in regards to financial management and investment respectively, that's why DCA method is there to relieve investors the stress of making poor investment decision thats capable of making them to discontinue their investment process or plan.
Investing with a little amount is good as a beginner though it depends on the individual discretionary income but be it as it may, this prepare the new investor to understand how the works but a newbie should not be in a hurry to get quick results because it isn't assured, his mindset should be in a long-term because Bitcoin increase overtime not in a twinkle of eyes, I believe with this understanding a new investor wouldn't want to reduce his aggressive DCAing (if he is actually doing it) since he now understands that what he wants cant be achieved in a short period of time.

[MainIbem]

It is true that we can't know what the price of bitcoin will be in time coming but even though we are making speculations based on it's current price movements and it's price activity in the past, accurate and this speculations are also what gives investors hopes and confidence about their investment.

The price of bitcoin is unpredictable and that's why nobody can stand firmly to say that he or she knows what price of bitcoin will be in next month,
Anyone suggestions or speculations towards the price of bitcoin in next Month or two months that the price of bitcoin will be in a particular price, do not believe to the person seriously, because I know quite well that price of bitcoin is unpredictable and you don't need predict what you don't know about, because many users is found of that, predicting base on assumptions, to be sincere bitcoin price increases because of the level of demand, its obvious that demand or new investors like big companies that come in, in bitcoin, they're one that makes bitcoin investment to Skyrocket, its not based on month

Bitcoin has shown great potential over the years thereby making it a very speculative asset for different investors to give their two cents on what they feel the price of Bitcoin could turn out in the near future, well the expectations of many is that the price would skyrocket to a new all time high but a certain figure is not easily predicted to at a certain point in time. On the media, many bad actors and paid influencers have used wrong predictions of the price of Bitcoin to deceive naive people into investing on the wrong assets (shitcoins) telling them that most of those assets follow the trends of Bitcoin and has the potential to go higher and give them profits, that's why people shouldn't just invest on digital assets based on what they hear on the media. Bitcoin is and still remains the best digital asset for investment but then an investor going into it should be able to know the basic concepts of Bitcoin investment so as not to be mislead concerning it. The speculations about Bitcoin price shouldn't be an issue to investors but accumulating more Bitcoins and managing their portfolio is what matters most, not mere speculations from the media.