Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[Joeboy]

This is the main reason why a bitcoin investor shouldn't invest beyond his discretionary but from his discretionary income so that, he can continue hodli and keep his bitcoin accumulation ongoing with persist and consistent for 4-10 years and above

To own Bitcoin, you need to be patient and invest consistently without rushing. Because it does not depend on the amount of money, but rather on its consistency and permanence. This method gives more success than trading.

Because buying and selling for a small profit is like gambling. And if a person does not trade after investing, he will be financially well. When Bitcoin reaches a price, after reaching it, it starts fluctuating in the price around it. Therefore, many people decide to sell it, considering it the highest price. After selling at the highest price and later seeing a new ATH, the selling price seems too small.

In this way, many investors fail even after thinking of depositing for a long period. Therefore, if you want to hold on to success tightly, you can never touch the portfolio. And in this way, a person can enjoy the compound interest of his investment.

Patience and then consistency is the backbone of being successful in your Bitcoin journey. The reason for this is that market moves in cycles, sometimes it goes very high and sometimes very low, but what pays off at the end is the discipline to keep stacking little by little without panicking......And then also it’s not always about the size of one's investments but the discipline to keep going and not quitting halfway, that’s where the real success comes...... That why I keep telling most new investors that "an investor who invest only 10% of his discretionary and does it consistently and then with a mindset of patience is far more better than an investor who invest 50% of his discretionary, but does so only when he feels like( no consistency)."

[Lembo69]

Every investor must set a target timeline to which his/her investment journey would last actively before thinking of a possible sell, with this in mind, such an investor creates or build up funds such as emergency and reserve funds through his discretionary income to enable such investment plan been achieved. An investor who fails to plan, already plans to fail. A set plan of targeted goal towards such an investment will serve as guide and road map to a successful Bitcoin accumulation process..

It is good for every investor to set a target timeline to which his/her investment journey should last, but in my opinion, it's not necessary for investors to set a target timeline of when their Bitcoin investment journey should last because it's likely to make some investors become over aggressive in accumulating Bitcoin so that they can meet up with their investment time, and at the end they will end up selling their Bitcoin investment too early. We should just be accumulating Bitcoin without setting a timeline so that we won't be under pressure to meet up with our timeline and end up getting out of the game.

Every investors will choose a strategy that they want because it's their money but the thing is that it's not every strategy that is a well thought out one for Bitcoin investment. Having a target timeline to sell is a choice but if you want to be very profitable in Bitcoin you'd hold for the very long term like 8 to 10 years or much more. No need to worry about a timeline to sell because it can be a distraction, you'd be flipping your calendar and doing countdown to sell time.

Personally I believe that the best strategy on when to be selling should be during retirement, also leaving some for responsible inheritors. With this in mind you'd just be buying and hodling without worrying about the perfect target timeline to sell. So far you have active discretionary funds you'd keep buying and when you get that lump sum you'd buy aggressively.

It seems that if anyone considers themselves a life-long investor into bitcoin, then they would need to spend 1 to 2 or maybe even 3 cycles accumulating bitcoin.  They might develop some kind of a formula to figure out if they have enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin.  It can take a while to get through the accumulation stage.

Is it possible for an investor to invest for life? Although he considers himself a lifelong investor. His portfolio has grown more than he had expected, what is the goal of his investment? Even if he sells some of his investment, the rest will remain. Is it even possible for an investor to invest for life? Although he can get a lot of profit from his investment. And he can also survive inflation. But as he gets older, both his life and investment will be at risk. If he dies, will that part of his investment not go to waste? Or will he be able to tell anyone in his family about his investment and wallet?

[Kagaru]

~snip~

With same investment capital, you can invest gradually or aggressively, it's my thinking, that means I disagree with you.

Investment aggressively or not, it does not require to have extra (additional) source of income or investment capital. It's only matter that whether you want to DCA gradually or want to purchase bitcoins aggressively. Assuming with same investment capital as $1,000, you can gradually DCA in 10 months or your can purchase bitcoins more aggressively in 5 months or 3 months or 2 months.

Of course with DCA strategy, it's always better if you can have regular investment purchases and can have new investment capital with time rather than 100% rely on your investment capital at beginning and plan how to use it with time. Like you can start with $1,000 investment capital, plan to use it for purchasing bitcoins in 10 months, but it's better if with time, each month you can save part of your income and have like $50 or $100 more new investment capital. That will sum up your investment capital to bigger than $1,000 with months.

If a person has lump sum available, such as $1k to get started, and maybe  he has an income in which he can buy $100 per week in bitcoin, then with the extra $1k, he does not need to invest through DCA, he could buy right away and/or he could buy at the dip (if the dip happens), so he has choices of the three different styles, and DCA is not always better if you already have a lump sum of cash come available to you.  One of the reasons that so many people use DCA is because it is much easier to tailor some kind of a buying amount that goes along with their regular income coming in and their expenses, and so DCA also will allow an adjustment every week or whatever period that a person chooses to buy bitcoin under that kind of an approach/practice.

I think the aspect of discretionary funds discussed by you is very accurate. You do not need extra money to be aggressive in your investments but the extent depends on the level of risk that you can afford to undertake using the funds that you would not mind losing. You can either DCA or buy more aggressively using your existing discretionary capital depending upon your level of comfort and the market environment.

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

We all know that DCA method is a very good method, but there are many who prefer to buy Bitcoin from the dip market. For example, a few days ago the Bitcoin market was dumping and went down to $107,000, and those who were able to buy Bitcoin from that dip market are currently experiencing fairly good success. So investing in the DCA method is good, but it is even better if you can invest from the dip. I had some emergency funds, I have been accumulating my funds for quite some time, I was expecting a lot of dumping but there was not much dumping. I was hoping in my heart that if Bitcoin came close to $100k or even below, then I would buy Bitcoin from there, but it did not come to that level, but I bought from the dip market a few days ago, and currently I am experiencing a lot of success, so I say that buying from the dip market leads to a lot of success for every investor, but if you cannot wait for the dip market, then you can invest continuously using the DCA method where you do not have to wait for the dip market.

As a long term investor whose initial strategy has been focused on the long term goal of consistently or Perherps persistent accumulation of bitcoin with a discretionary income using the DCA method I don’t think it’s advisable to wait for the dip before you accumulate bitcoin. Waiting to invest when its dip is a strategy only adopted by traders who are in for a short quick profit making mindset and they always panic whenever they notice a little downturn in the market price. A real investor will not wait until its dip before accumulating bitcoin rather he will just carry on with his ongoing strategy of figuring out a discretionary income to consistently accumulate bitcoin and gradually build up his portfolio through the DCA method and if along the line the dip presents itself, it will only be seen as an added advantage or opportunity for him to stack more aggressively and add to his already stacked up portfolio. That time you’re using to wait to buy in the dip would have been used to gradually accumulate a reasonable amount of bitcoin stash using just your discretionary income and gradually build up your portfolio. Moreover, waiting for the dip which might not occur would be seen as a waste of time because you’ve missed out on so many investments opportunities.

Well, I believe that both methods are good, depending on the type of mentality and purpose. DCA is the best when there is long-term accumulation since one does not have to worry about timing the market (and therefore stable growth can be achieved with solely discretionary income). You do not have to worry about missing a dip as with time, regular buying will even out the price.

The obvious benefit of purchasing dips is that it can help gain faster when the market plunges, but that is only possible with liquidity, patience and being willing to monitor the market closely which makes it a stressful experience. In the case of long-term investors, it seems to be safer to see dips as optional additions, but not the primary strategy. Basically, the DCA is the base and any dip buys are bonus stacking as opposed to perfect timing which hardly occurs in a regular manner. This would minimise risk and yet you are able to benefit on market movements.

[Stormisover]

~snip~

With same investment capital, you can invest gradually or aggressively, it's my thinking, that means I disagree with you.

Investment aggressively or not, it does not require to have extra (additional) source of income or investment capital. It's only matter that whether you want to DCA gradually or want to purchase bitcoins aggressively. Assuming with same investment capital as $1,000, you can gradually DCA in 10 months or your can purchase bitcoins more aggressively in 5 months or 3 months or 2 months.

Of course with DCA strategy, it's always better if you can have regular investment purchases and can have new investment capital with time rather than 100% rely on your investment capital at beginning and plan how to use it with time. Like you can start with $1,000 investment capital, plan to use it for purchasing bitcoins in 10 months, but it's better if with time, each month you can save part of your income and have like $50 or $100 more new investment capital. That will sum up your investment capital to bigger than $1,000 with months.

If a person has lump sum available, such as $1k to get started, and maybe  he has an income in which he can buy $100 per week in bitcoin, then with the extra $1k, he does not need to invest through DCA, he could buy right away and/or he could buy at the dip (if the dip happens), so he has choices of the three different styles, and DCA is not always better if you already have a lump sum of cash come available to you.  One of the reasons that so many people use DCA is because it is much easier to tailor some kind of a buying amount that goes along with their regular income coming in and their expenses, and so DCA also will allow an adjustment every week or whatever period that a person chooses to buy bitcoin under that kind of an approach/practice.

I think the aspect of discretionary funds discussed by you is very accurate. You do not need extra money to be aggressive in your investments but the extent depends on the level of risk that you can afford to undertake using the funds that you would not mind losing. You can either DCA or buy more aggressively using your existing discretionary capital depending upon your level of comfort and the market environment.

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

[Churchillvv]

I personally think that if any of us are able to establish how much income we are going to need per year in order to maintain our lifestyle, then that is a good way of measuring if we have enough or more than enough BTC.... which will help us with our transition from accumulation stage to maintenance stage and then to sustainable withdrawal stage.

Perhaps to an extent I would also want to see a good number of us here figure out how much we want to keep accumulating in order to reach the over accumulation phase however, with a good amount one can and/or would be able to reach such goal before and/or after 3 cycles hence, perhaps most of us here excluding you and few others, have not been able to stay accumulating for 2 cycles judging from our registration dates yet in due time and if consistent enough sooner or later some of use would be reach that stage of sustainable withdrawal yet not me either as perhaps I would still have to keep accumulating.

Yep.  Unless guys say differently, we might need to use their forum registration as a way to approximately guess when they might have had gotten involved in bitcoin.

Also, it seems that with the passage of time, the slope of the BTC price appreciation curve is becoming less steep too, yet still bitcoin still seems to be amongst the best of risk/reward bets that any normal person could make, and so it still helps to concentrate on accumulating bitcoin, and surely even fairly aggressive investors might need to take 2 to 3 or even more time to really build up their bitcoin stash and other aspects of their cash flow management.

Perhaps, some guys might have started notice accumulation before signing up on the forum while some guys might even stay months after signing up yet before they started their accumulation journey. However, we approximate all including before and after within the registration date and perhaps those who started earlier before joining the forum might be at advantage over those who took time before starting bitcoin accumulation and this also points at one of the most frequently discussed reasons to start accumulation when you have the opportunity and income and not necessarily when you’re fully knowledgeable, as preparation never ends instead it’s worth knowing that in the process of learning one is able to accumulate some bitcoin at the same time accumulating some level of knowledge for the sustainability of their assets.

Even though bitcoin is considered is considered risky, yet it’s one of those risk with some level of trust and confidence that rewards will be attained in the long run yet nothing is guaranteed as no one knows the next minute but at least judging from the history of bitcoin, which has repeatedly proven to be rewarding assets in a long term. Hence I also agree with you that even guys who are fairly aggressive will still have to accumulate for 2 or 3 cycles before attaining the over-accumulation stage and then probably is able to go into sustainable withdrawal yet I doubt most of us here has been able to attain such height in bitcoin accumulation.

There are also some guys who are fairly young, and they likely might not be in a position to go straight into working and earning and income, and they might well want to consider the extent to which they might want to invest in college and/or their own self training and getting experiences that may or may not distract from their abilities to either continue to invest into bitcoin or to be able to continue to hold onto their stash without overly depleting it.  Sometimes certain training can help their income so that they can continue to either hold their bitcoin or to accumulate more bitcoin until whether either time passes and/or they build up their stash more.

Perhaps this seems to be referring to guys like me who are very young and still in college yet accumulating bitcoin from few sources of incomes, including the signature payment in the forum. Hence dedication and discipline seems to be the only anchor to keep accumulating since there are most likely to be some activities that might want to sway guys like me off the accumulation especially when it comes to college student activities hence remaining the due course of bitcoin accumulation seems to be a separate course of study for some of us as participating in the forum and engaging in discussions like this only pushes towards one thing and that is keep accumulating.

[Tonimez]

[Edited out]

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

The amount of Discretionary income should be best related to your amount of income per week or monthly no as long as your basic responsibilities do not grow up to occupy the extra increase in basic income. This is where cashflow management comes in. It is a general knowledge that humans responsibility virtually grows to meet every increase in a person's income. Let's say that a person is willing to buy aggressively when there's increased pay, some get distracted by getting a new car loan or changing their apartments to suit their assumed new standards.

How about maintaining your status prior to your new income with little or no rise in your standards of living. As a bitcoin investor who has an accumulation target, it is very important to focus on your mission and instead of getting oneself involved in new car loans even when you have a car you used before. You can decide to assume that the increment in your income never occurred by channelling all or part of the new pay into your bitcoin.  This would help you to accumulate more bitcoin recently and allow you take part in the bitcoin future prospects.

[JayJuanGee]

If a person has lump sum available, such as $1k to get started, and maybe  he has an income in which he can buy $100 per week in bitcoin, then with the extra $1k, he does not need to invest through DCA, he could buy right away and/or he could buy at the dip (if the dip happens), so he has choices of the three different styles, and DCA is not always better if you already have a lump sum of cash come available to you.  One of the reasons that so many people use DCA is because it is much easier to tailor some kind of a buying amount that goes along with their regular income coming in and their expenses, and so DCA also will allow an adjustment every week or whatever period that a person chooses to buy bitcoin under that kind of an approach/practice.

Yes, if a person has $1,000, he does not need to follow the DCA method, he can buy from the depths of the market if he wants. DCA will be a good method for those who will invest using the equivalent of $100 every week, but it will not be very effective for those who will buy from the depths.

A lump sum gives you three options to consider.  1) buy right away, 2) defer by time (DCA) and/or 3) defer by price (buying on dips that may or may not happen).  We should not presume that the mere fact that a lump sum is available that the better strategy is to defer by price rather than buying right away, yet each person who had already authorized the amount for buying bitcoin has the ability to decide from each of those three categories.

By the way, I am not much of a fan of deferral and or waiting strategies unless they are already accompanied by ongoing buying strategies, especially for newer investors, such as guys who have only been investing into bitcoin for less than 4 years.

Of course, the longer that a person has been investing and the fact hat he might have had already bought around the current BTC price might give him possible rationale to save some money for dips and/or to supplement his strategy with a dip buying plan.

Guys who assume that dip buying is automatically the better strategy to accumulate bitcoin may well have not considered the matter very well, especially for newer investors who likely would be better off buying at any price and ongoingly, unless they might have had the ability to front load their investment by already having had bought a decent amount of BTC so that they are sufficiently and adequately prepared for up rather than overly preparing for down that may or may not end up happening.

If I have a large amount of money at one time, then I will definitely reflect that when the market falls, and it goes down a lot, I will invest with all my money.

Are you a brand new investor in bitcoin or have you already bought a lot of bitcoin?

Your forum registration shows that you have been registered since January 2023, and so did you already buy a lot of BTC in the last almost 3 years?  If so then maybe buying dips might be helpful in your particular case (perhaps? perhaps?), otherwise, you might be already in a wrong mindset in regards to your BTC accumulation strategy and/or you might be employing bad strategies.

In the last nearly 3 years have you been buying bitcoin aggressively, or have you been waiting around to buy dips that did not end up happening?  There have not been a lot of great dips in the past 3-ish years, and guys would have had likely been better off to have had been fairly aggressively accumulating for the past 3-ish years rather than fucking around waiting for dips that might not happen.

Currently,  a brand new person might not be served very well be waiting for dips, and depending on the extent to which you have already been able to front load your bitcoin investment, you also might not be served too wll by trying to wait for dips that might not happen.

Let's say that you had a $50k per year income and you were to have had chosen to invest $500 per week into bitcoin, and you might well would have had invested around $70k since January 2023 and you might have had accumulated right around 1.6 BTC. Even in that kinds of a case, it could be questionable if you should stop investing and wait for dips that might not happen.

If I can buy deep, it can show profits in a very short time, but if I use DCA every week with my money, it will not give much profit. So if you have cash, it is better not to practice the DCA method in investing, but it is better to buy when there is instability in the market.

We can agree to disagree. If you have been following such a waiting and/or fucking around strategy in the past 3 years, you have likely ended up with whimpy, unserious and lack of aggressive bitcoin accumulating which has likely not helped your situation as a likely low coiner (and/or a person who is still wanting to accumulate bitcoin).

I personally think that if any of us are able to establish how much income we are going to need per year in order to maintain our lifestyle, then that is a good way of measuring if we have enough or more than enough BTC.... which will help us with our transition from accumulation stage to maintenance stage and then to sustainable withdrawal stage.

Perhaps to an extent I would also want to see a good number of us here figure out how much we want to keep accumulating in order to reach the over accumulation phase however, with a good amount one can and/or would be able to reach such goal before and/or after 3 cycles hence, perhaps most of us here excluding you and few others, have not been able to stay accumulating for 2 cycles judging from our registration dates yet in due time and if consistent enough sooner or later some of use would be reach that stage of sustainable withdrawal yet not me either as perhaps I would still have to keep accumulating.

Yep.  Unless guys say differently, we might need to use their forum registration as a way to approximately guess when they might have had gotten involved in bitcoin.

You're right, but I noticed that some guys is already involved in  bitcoin investment for like 4 to 5 years before joining this forum so is assume that this set of people must have started the accumulation process earlier before joining the forum,

Sure.. guys can clarify when they got involved.

There are also guys who register on the forum and then fuck around with trading and/or shitcoins for several years before they come to realize that they should have had been focusing their efforts on bitcoin first.

There is nothing wrong with assuming using the forum registration date, and if a guy clarifies his situation, then nothing wrong with that either.

Also, we don't necessarily get into specifics of any particular guy, yet at the same time, if guys are sometimes claiming to be posting from experience and not asking questions, then sometimes their experience and/or knowledge about whatever they are proclaiming might become relevant.

I frequently will use examples from my own timeline, yet I am not necessarily proclaiming specifics about myself and I also might describe various kinds of hypothetical bitcoiners in order to attmempt to talk about bitcoin as a topic and sometimes we do end up talking about the advantages and disadvantages of getting into bitcoin during certain time periods in the past.

and yeah we can easily find this set of people through thier contributions I have seen Alot of people making nice contributions but when you look at their registration date you will find out that they join this forum recently so if we are to guess from the registration date we may be wrong,

Sure.  New guys might have all kinds of life and/or investment and/or cashflow management experiences, yet I am not going to presume that to be the case unless the guy might clarify those kinds of matters to the extent that they might be relevant to whatever post he is making.

just like a friend of mine who has been accumulating bitcoin for some years now yet he had no idea about this forum the guy is a old friend of mine he traveled very far from me then we misplaced contact he returned not quite long as he was going through his phone then I discovered that he has been accumulating bitcoin for some years now, so I was wondering where he got this knowledge I thought he's a member here but when I ask him he said no" that he haven't heard about this forum before that he build the knowledge from a friend.

Of course the forum is not the ONLY place to get bitcoin knowledge, and there are some folks who don't like the forums format.  There are around 8 billion people on the planet, and perhaps a couple million registered accounts, but only a few thousand members here who are regularly active.. and even from the active ones, group is also small.

Surely there are other places to learn about bitcoin besides this forum, so yeah, guys might spend several years learning about and studying bitcoin before the register with the forum, but so what?  What does that have to do with anything?  Is there a problem presuming that they got started in bitcoin and or around their forum registration date, unless they feel some kind of a need to clarify otherwise?

I don't really know how far he has gone in the accumulation journey but I'm sure that he has stack enough bitcoin but not really sure if he has gotten to the status of overaccumulation.

It takes a long time to reach overaccumulation status, and sure there are some folks who also might be quite secretive about their finances, including not wanting to (or not ready and/or able to) participate in a forum like this one.

[edited out]

In this way, many investors fail even after thinking of depositing for a long period. Therefore, if you want to hold on to success tightly, you can never touch the portfolio. And in this way, a person can enjoy the compound interest of his investment.

In bitcoin we tend to refer to compounding value rather than compound interest, since we likely are not leaving our bitcoin with custodians in order to get interest on them.. That is a different thing, and surely historically in bitcoin some institutions (or third party services) have provided those kinds of services to pay interest and/or yield and some of them also scammed people out of their bitcoin.

Every investor must set a target timeline to which his/her investment journey would last actively before thinking of a possible sell, with this in mind, such an investor creates or build up funds such as emergency and reserve funds through his discretionary income to enable such investment plan been achieved. An investor who fails to plan, already plans to fail. A set plan of targeted goal towards such an investment will serve as guide and road map to a successful Bitcoin accumulation process..

It is good for every investor to set a target timeline to which his/her investment journey should last, but in my opinion, it's not necessary for investors to set a target timeline of when their Bitcoin investment journey should last because it's likely to make some investors become over aggressive in accumulating Bitcoin so that they can meet up with their investment time, and at the end they will end up selling their Bitcoin investment too early. We should just be accumulating Bitcoin without setting a timeline so that we won't be under pressure to meet up with our timeline and end up getting out of the game.

Every investors will choose a strategy that they want because it's their money but the thing is that it's not every strategy that is a well thought out one for Bitcoin investment. Having a target timeline to sell is a choice but if you want to be very profitable in Bitcoin you'd hold for the very long term like 8 to 10 years or much more. No need to worry about a timeline to sell because it can be a distraction, you'd be flipping your calendar and doing countdown to sell time.

Personally I believe that the best strategy on when to be selling should be during retirement, also leaving some for responsible inheritors. With this in mind you'd just be buying and hodling without worrying about the perfect target timeline to sell. So far you have active discretionary funds you'd keep buying and when you get that lump sum you'd buy aggressively.

It seems that if anyone considers themselves a life-long investor into bitcoin, then they would need to spend 1 to 2 or maybe even 3 cycles accumulating bitcoin.  They might develop some kind of a formula to figure out if they have enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin.  It can take a while to get through the accumulation stage.

Is it possible for an investor to invest for life? Although he considers himself a lifelong investor. His portfolio has grown more than he had expected, what is the goal of his investment? Even if he sells some of his investment, the rest will remain. Is it even possible for an investor to invest for life? Although he can get a lot of profit from his investment. And he can also survive inflation. But as he gets older, both his life and investment will be at risk. If he dies, will that part of his investment not go to waste? Or will he be able to tell anyone in his family about his investment and wallet?

Just because a person might approach bitcoin with a plan to be an investor for life, that does not necessarily mean that he is hanging onto his bitcoin for the whole time.  In one of my threads I talk about various bitcoin investment ideas and another thread I talk about two forms of sustainable withdrawal (price based and time based).  You can sustainable withdraw from your bitcoin holdings, especially once you have reached overaccumulation status.

Let's say that a person earns $50k per year, and for the past 9 years since mid-2016, he had invested $200 per week into bitcoin, and so over those 9 years he invested around $90k, and he accumulated nearly 19 BTC.

Maybe his plan was to start to live off of his bitcoin once it was able to sustain at least an $80k per year income, so he looks at my sustaiinable withdrawal tool and he sees that starting right now, it would only take around 15.2302 BTC in order to sustain an $80k income per year, so he sees that he had right around 3.75 BTC extra, so he could withdraw $80k per year forever and likely increase his income by 7% each year forever and he even has an extra 3.75 BTC as his cushion (of 19 BTC) so right now, he probably could sustain even a higher perpetual income of nearly $100k per year, so he may have waited to long to get started living off of his bitcoin and holding his bitcoin for the rest of his life.. And yeah, if he has some extra need to withdraw more bitcoin he can, and so he can figure out some reasonable ways to mostly hold his bitcoin for life, even if he is cashing out some of them from time to time, and they are likely growing in value at a rate that is faster than the rate that he is withdrawing from them.

~snip~

With same investment capital, you can invest gradually or aggressively, it's my thinking, that means I disagree with you.

Investment aggressively or not, it does not require to have extra (additional) source of income or investment capital. It's only matter that whether you want to DCA gradually or want to purchase bitcoins aggressively. Assuming with same investment capital as $1,000, you can gradually DCA in 10 months or your can purchase bitcoins more aggressively in 5 months or 3 months or 2 months.

Of course with DCA strategy, it's always better if you can have regular investment purchases and can have new investment capital with time rather than 100% rely on your investment capital at beginning and plan how to use it with time. Like you can start with $1,000 investment capital, plan to use it for purchasing bitcoins in 10 months, but it's better if with time, each month you can save part of your income and have like $50 or $100 more new investment capital. That will sum up your investment capital to bigger than $1,000 with months.

If a person has lump sum available, such as $1k to get started, and maybe  he has an income in which he can buy $100 per week in bitcoin, then with the extra $1k, he does not need to invest through DCA, he could buy right away and/or he could buy at the dip (if the dip happens), so he has choices of the three different styles, and DCA is not always better if you already have a lump sum of cash come available to you.  One of the reasons that so many people use DCA is because it is much easier to tailor some kind of a buying amount that goes along with their regular income coming in and their expenses, and so DCA also will allow an adjustment every week or whatever period that a person chooses to buy bitcoin under that kind of an approach/practice.

I think the aspect of discretionary funds discussed by you is very accurate. You do not need extra money to be aggressive in your investments but the extent depends on the level of risk that you can afford to undertake using the funds that you would not mind losing. You can either DCA or buy more aggressively using your existing discretionary capital depending upon your level of comfort and the market environment.

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

I think that I was talking about being more aggressive in terms of how well organized you are rather than in terms of whether there is a bitcoin dip or not.

From my point of view, it is a bad strategy to change your aggressiveness based on whether or not there is a dip, especially for newbies (anyone in their first 4 years of accumulating bitcoin and who was not able to frontload their investment).  If are in your first 4 years of accumulating bitcoin you should work on organizing yourself, and as you get better with your organization and your back up funds, then you can increase your level of aggressiveness in your bitcoin investmemnt approach.

[IceLincoln]

If a person has lump sum available, such as $1k to get started, and maybe  he has an income in which he can buy $100 per week in bitcoin, then with the extra $1k, he does not need to invest through DCA, he could buy right away and/or he could buy at the dip (if the dip happens), so he has choices of the three different styles, and DCA is not always better if you already have a lump sum of cash come available to you.  One of the reasons that so many people use DCA is because it is much easier to tailor some kind of a buying amount that goes along with their regular income coming in and their expenses, and so DCA also will allow an adjustment every week or whatever period that a person chooses to buy bitcoin under that kind of an approach/practice.

I like to think that DCA is the best method or strategy in almost every situation, even if a person has lump sum it just depends how disciplined and aggressive the person is with his DCA. If a person has $1K and he decides to DCA $200 for five weeks and another with the same amount just lump sums immediately, you’ll find out in the end that the one who DCAed was able to accumulate more than the lump sum even if it’s a bit.
I think lump sum is most beneficial in times of dip, I think that’s the only moment when lump sum is better.
Assuming the $1K didn’t come available at a time of dip, would it be better to wait ? How long would one have to wait losing valuable time and opportunities he could have accumulated more. And sometimes while waiting for a dip and price moves to an ATH even if there’s a correction after, there’s a possibility the dip might still be high compared to the time you had the sum available and decided to wait.
Look at the chart below ⬇️


Assuming he had the $1K at $100k price value and he was waiting for a dip and price shoots up, you see that the price never comes down again below $100k and now at whatever time he chooses to buy is now high compared to when he first had the money… that’s a huge missed opportunity.

[SmartCharpa]

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

So, buying the dip and lump sum are not the same thing, it's just that people do their things differently. Some may decide to invest their money once, while others will wait for a dip. But, in the end, it will depends on how the person thinks and the kind of risk they are willing to take.

[JayJuanGee]

If a person has lump sum available, such as $1k to get started, and maybe  he has an income in which he can buy $100 per week in bitcoin, then with the extra $1k, he does not need to invest through DCA, he could buy right away and/or he could buy at the dip (if the dip happens), so he has choices of the three different styles, and DCA is not always better if you already have a lump sum of cash come available to you.  One of the reasons that so many people use DCA is because it is much easier to tailor some kind of a buying amount that goes along with their regular income coming in and their expenses, and so DCA also will allow an adjustment every week or whatever period that a person chooses to buy bitcoin under that kind of an approach/practice.

I like to think that DCA is the best method or strategy in almost every situation, even if a person has lump sum it just depends how disciplined and aggressive the person is with his DCA.

Guys need to consider the circumstances in which they come accross the new money.

Let's say that a guy with a $30k per year income had been investing $100 per week for two years, and one day he all of a sudden received some kind of a pay out or an amount of money that added up to around $5k, which is equal to a whole year of his prior DCA amounts.

I think the guy should at least consider all three options, including potentially putting 1/3 (or some other amount that he considers to be reasonable) in each of the categories

It also may differ if the guy is brand new to bitcoin (like ONLY 1 month in) or if the guy had been accumulating for 2 cycles already, so he had already invested around $40k into bitcoin.

Guys account for their situation, and it is up to them how to do it, but they should at least consider all three options.

If a person has $1K and he decides to DCA $200 for five weeks and another with the same amount just lump sums immediately, you’ll find out in the end that the one who DCAed was able to accumulate more than the lump sum even if it’s a bit.

The one who lump sum will do better if the price ends up going up, and the one who DCA'd will end up doing better if the BTC price ended up going down.

Even if the guy has suspicions about the potential BTC price direction, mostly he does not know in advance if the BTC price is going to go up, down or sideways.

I think lump sum is most beneficial in times of dip,

That is not called lump sum. That is called buying the dip. 

Sure if you get a lump sum and the BTC price had been dropping for the previous week or two, and you think that the dip is not over, then sure, you could be correct that some advantage comes from buying as the price is dipping, even though the price direction could reverse at any time.

I think that’s the only moment when lump sum is better.

If the BTC price is about to go up, but you don't know it, then lump sum (by buying right away) would be better in those kind of situations.

Assuming the $1K didn’t come available at a time of dip, would it be better to wait ? How long would one have to wait losing valuable time and opportunities he could have accumulated more.

Those are the considerations that have to be attempted to be accounted for right away.  You can establish a plan that is based on time and/or based on price, and even back up plans if the primary plan does not seem to be playing out as expected.

And sometimes while waiting for a dip and price moves to an ATH even if there’s a correction after, there’s a possibility the dip might still be high compared to the time you had the sum available and decided to wait.
Look at the chart below ⬇️

Assuming he had the $1K at $100k price value and he was waiting for a dip and price shoots up, you see that the price never comes down again below $100k and now at whatever time he chooses to buy is now high compared to when he first had the money… that’s a huge missed opportunity.

He might not consider it a missed opportunity if he had already been buying for two cycles or more.

Surely the shorter time that he has been in, then probably he would be better to error on the side of buying right away, so even in my case of $5k, he might invest $4k right away (like over the space of 1-2 weeks) and then maybe he saves $1k for buying on dips, so then he might have 3 orders of $333 each for every 5% that the BTC price goes down, and with the expectation that he might end up holding parts if not all of the $1k rather than investing it at dip prices that might not end up happening.  He ultimately figures out an approach that is based on his own psychology and his finances, but it also depends on how much BTC he had already accumulated (and when and how he made those prior BTC purchases). 

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

So, buying the dip and lump sum are not the same thing, it's just that people do their things differently. Some may decide to invest their money once, while others will wait for a dip. But, in the end, it will depends on how the person thinks and the kind of risk they are willing to take.

You sound confused SmartCharpa.  Lump sum can refer to the amount received or it can refer to how it is bought, and if you consider to treat the lump sum in terms of 1) buy right away, 2) defer by time (dca) and/or 3) defer by price (buy on dips), then you can pick whatever the fuck amount that you want for each of those categories, and you can even choose the criteria upon which you will execute the buy.

So, let's go back to the $5k example.  Let's say that you divide it into 3 equal parts then that is $1,667 per each part.

For the buy right away portion you could even divide that into three parts of $555 every 3 days for the next 9 days.  There are all kinds of ways to be creative, and the parts do not need to be divided equally and all of the 3 don't need to be used, even though all three should be at least considered. since you have the option and the power of having an extra $5k that you did not have previously, it is good to consider your options rather than just plug it into one form that might not be as good for you, your finances and/or for your psychology.

[Tungbulu]

If I have a large amount of money at one time, then I will definitely reflect that when the market falls, and it goes down a lot, I will invest with all my money.

Are you a brand new investor in bitcoin or have you already bought a lot of bitcoin?

Your forum registration shows that you have been registered since January 2023, and so did you already buy a lot of BTC in the last almost 3 years?  If so then maybe buying dips might be helpful in your particular case (perhaps? perhaps?), otherwise, you might be already in a wrong mindset in regards to your BTC accumulation strategy and/or you might be employing bad strategies.

In the last nearly 3 years have you been buying bitcoin aggressively, or have you been waiting around to buy dips that did not end up happening?  There have not been a lot of great dips in the past 3-ish years, and guys would have had likely been better off to have had been fairly aggressively accumulating for the past 3-ish years rather than fucking around waiting for dips that might not happen.

Currently,  a brand new person might not be served very well be waiting for dips, and depending on the extent to which you have already been able to front load your bitcoin investment, you also might not be served too wll by trying to wait for dips that might not happen.

Let's say that you had a $50k per year income and you were to have had chosen to invest $500 per week into bitcoin, and you might well would have had invested around $70k since January 2023 and you might have had accumulated right around 1.6 BTC. Even in that kinds of a case, it could be questionable if you should stop investing and wait for dips that might not happen.

Yeah, I get what you're saying and I think you're spot on. A lot of investors use their own mindset to paralyze themselves by attempting to time the market and waiting for the next/perfect DIP and then they end up with way less Bitcoin than they could've initially had if they had stuck to consistent accumulation via DCA. For someone who's been around the space since 2023, the real question should be if they've been actually building their stack all those years or they've been timing the market and waiting around and hoping for that magical entry that in reality may actually never come.

The example of the $500 per week you gave above is a good one. Some might feel it's boring, but in reality, it's quite effective. In a couple of years, such consistent buying really adds up and you'd be surprised about how much you've accomplished over the long run, without even putting yourself through the pressure or stressing yourself about whether the market gives you a dip or not. We've not really experienced those major crashes lately and no one knows when it'll come, so waiting around will probably do one more harm than the anticipated good.

If a person has lump sum available, such as $1k to get started, and maybe  he has an income in which he can buy $100 per week in bitcoin, then with the extra $1k, he does not need to invest through DCA, he could buy right away and/or he could buy at the dip (if the dip happens), so he has choices of the three different styles, and DCA is not always better if you already have a lump sum of cash come available to you.  One of the reasons that so many people use DCA is because it is much easier to tailor some kind of a buying amount that goes along with their regular income coming in and their expenses, and so DCA also will allow an adjustment every week or whatever period that a person chooses to buy bitcoin under that kind of an approach/practice.

I like to think that DCA is the best method or strategy in almost every situation, even if a person has lump sum it just depends how disciplined and aggressive the person is with his DCA. If a person has $1K and he decides to DCA $200 for five weeks and another with the same amount just lump sums immediately, you’ll find out in the end that the one who DCAed was able to accumulate more than the lump sum even if it’s a bit.
I think lump sum is most beneficial in times of dip, I think that’s the only moment when lump sum is better.
Assuming the $1K didn’t come available at a time of dip, would it be better to wait ? How long would one have to wait losing valuable time and opportunities he could have accumulated more. And sometimes while waiting for a dip and price moves to an ATH even if there’s a correction after, there’s a possibility the dip might still be high compared to the time you had the sum available and decided to wait.

That my friend is a very solid way to look at the DCA strategy. DCA sure does take away the guesswork from the equation, additionally, it also prevents people from missing out on potential opportunities while sitting around waiting for the perfect buy. With lump sum, one is basically actually gambling that the moment at which they buy is actually gonna look good in hindsight. If you're lucky enough that it actually lines up with a dip, good for you, and if not, you'll simply get stuck, second guessing yourself and thinking about the next move to make while the train just leaves you behind.

What you pointed out about waiting for the dip is one pitfall that a lot of investors often fall into. You might be sitting on cash for weeks or even months hoping for a perfect opportunity and then suddenly your long awaited dip comes above the level you could've already bought at. And this is exactly why the DCA strategy is way more safer and better than every other strategy, and this isn't always because it always win on pure maths, buy because it completely eradicates the risk of missing out or capitalizing on potential gains/opportunities.

And sometimes while waiting for a dip and price moves to an ATH even if there’s a correction after, there’s a possibility the dip might still be high compared to the time you had the sum available and decided to wait.
Look at the chart below ⬇️

Assuming he had the $1K at $100k price value and he was waiting for a dip and price shoots up, you see that the price never comes down again below $100k and now at whatever time he chooses to buy is now high compared to when he first had the money… that’s a huge missed opportunity.

He might not consider it a missed opportunity if he had already been buying for two cycles or more.

Surely the shorter time that he has been in, then probably he would be better to error on the side of buying right away, so even in my case of $5k, he might invest $4k right away (like over the space of 1-2 weeks) and then maybe he saves $1k for buying on dips, so then he might have 3 orders of $333 each for every 5% that the BTC price goes down, and with the expectation that he might end up holding parts if not all of the $1k rather than investing it at dip prices that might not end up happening.  He ultimately figures out an approach that is based on his own psychology and his finances, but it also depends on how much BTC he had already accumulated (and when and how he made those prior BTC purchases). 

This here is another fair point. If an individual has been committed to stacking up some sats for a couple of cycles, then they probably don't consider sitting on the sidelines as actually missing out like some newbies my see it, because they must have already capitalized on several potential opportunities. Their investment is already working for them at this point, so they have the luxury of being patient. But for a person who is relatively newer, time in the market matters way more to them, so it kinda makes a lot more sense for them to lean towards getting most of their capital deployed, instead of just waiting around, so it depends solely on the individual's unique situation.

I like the $5k example you gave, cos I consider it to be a good middle ground. When you put in the bulk right away without wasting time, gives one a solid exposure, and holding back smaller slice of your budget to capitalise on potential DIPs would really help to get rid of that "what if" itch without totally messing with your initial plans. If the dip eventually comes, then that's great, cos you actually get to buy a little cheaper. And if they don't come, you're still on track and not completely left behind.

[sotelorene]

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

So, buying the dip and lump sum are not the same thing, it's just that people do their things differently. Some may decide to invest their money once, while others will wait for a dip. But, in the end, it will depends on how the person thinks and the kind of risk they are willing to take.

You are beginning to sound like a trader chosing to wait for the price of Bitcoin to dip without accumulating little by little is a trading mindset and it is supposed to be put away because that is wrong. Every price of Bitcoin is okay to invest or accumulate so long as you are doing it for long term purpose or mindset. I have realized why some people sell to early is because of the mindset and idea of buying when there's dip because once they buy when price is down they will quickly sell off whenever there is a little uptrend making them not to enjoy the main thing Bitcoin brought or will bring soon in the future.

[Bluedrem]

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

So, buying the dip and lump sum are not the same thing, it's just that people do their things differently. Some may decide to invest their money once, while others will wait for a dip. But, in the end, it will depends on how the person thinks and the kind of risk they are willing to take.

What is the best price quoted by the Bitcoin guy? Do those who actually wait to buy Bitcoin at DIP really find the DIP price? For example, suppose when the price of Bitcoin was $60,000, a person planned to invest in Bitcoin but not at this price, he would start buying when the price drops. But when the price of Bitcoin reached $40,000, it was found that he was still not investing, when he was asked why he was not buying now that the DIP price was higher than the previous price? His answer would be that he wanted to wait for more DIP. Again he waited for a while and it was found that the price of Bitcoin had dropped to $20,000 and this time he still did not invest in Bitcoin, again he was asked why he was not buying Bitcoin. He said that Bitcoin had reached $60,000 to $20,000 and its price would drop further. Along with this, many other thoughts came to his mind as to whether Bitcoin is actually a real asset. That's why he couldn't invest even after it reached $60,000 to $20,000. He wanted to wait more, but later it turned out that its price had increased to $30,000. He then said, "I got it for $20,000, I didn't buy it. Now the price is high, and when the price of Bitcoin drops, I will invest here."
To be honest, this is the reality for those who wait for DIP to invest in Bitcoin. They don't actually find the real DIP, so they can't invest and later regret it.

[Futurexxx]

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

Those that still wait for a better price as you called it are just messing around wasting valuable time that should have been used to buy and add more to their stash because they don't know that the price they might be waiting for may not come in most cases, which will be very discouraging to even think of buying again because the price has moved upward to a figure they thought is too expensive, since they fail to understand that yesterday was the best time to buy Bitcoin, and another best time to buy is today, so trying to act smarter than the market will like delay them in their accumulation than someone that is just buying regardless of it price anytime he has a discretionary income to do so

[Gallar]

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

So, buying the dip and lump sum are not the same thing, it's just that people do their things differently. Some may decide to invest their money once, while others will wait for a dip. But, in the end, it will depends on how the person thinks and the kind of risk they are willing to take.

It seems the point of this discussion is veering towards buying bitcoin when the price is low. Because what's meant by buying at a better price is clearly meant to mean buying at a lower or falling price. I don't mind that, as we're all free to invest our money in bitcoin in any way. But I think such things are better done by individuals without having to advise others. This can certainly undermine someone's intention to invest in bitcoin. Someone who initially intended to do DCA could change their mind after seeing your assumptions.

Furthermore, waiting for the bitcoin price to drop before making a purchase will also cause us to lose momentum. Especially if we wait for the bitcoin price to drop to, say, $30,000 or even lower. I believe if someone waits for the bitcoin price to drop that far before making a purchase, I think they will ultimately not invest in bitcoin. This is because they're waiting too long, and what they're waiting for will never come. Therefore, if you're going to invest in bitcoin, buy immediately, provided you have discretionary funds.

[Popkon6]

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

Those that still wait for a better price as you called it are just messing around wasting valuable time that should have been used to buy and add more to their stash because they don't know that the price they might be waiting for may not come in most cases, which will be very discouraging to even think of buying again because the price has moved upward to a figure they thought is too expensive, since they fail to understand that yesterday was the best time to buy Bitcoin, and another best time to buy is today, so trying to act smarter than the market will like delay them in their accumulation than someone that is just buying regardless of it price anytime he has a discretionary income to do so

Many people are looking for a good opportunity to buy Bitcoin, the current time is the right time to buy Bitcoin. If you wait, I think you are making a mistake, because those who wait to buy Bitcoin will basically not be able to hold it for a long time. If you have money, it is better to invest in Bitcoin immediately, because the longer you wait, the more the price of Bitcoin will continue to increase.
So if you can buy Bitcoin at the current time, then of course there will be savings on the purchase price, if you have 1k dollars or 2k dollars to invest, then it is better to invest immediately, it is better not to wait to buy dip.
Because to start buying Bitcoin, buy as much money as you have in a row, and then from admission you can invest $100, $200, up to $500 per week according to your weekly income.

[IceLincoln]

I like to think that DCA is the best method or strategy in almost every situation, even if a person has lump sum it just depends how disciplined and aggressive the person is with his DCA.

Guys need to consider the circumstances in which they come accross the new money.

Let's say that a guy with a $30k per year income had been investing $100 per week for two years, and one day he all of a sudden received some kind of a pay out or an amount of money that added up to around $5k, which is equal to a whole year of his prior DCA amounts.

I think the guy should at least consider all three options, including potentially putting 1/3 (or some other amount that he considers to be reasonable) in each of the categories

It also may differ if the guy is brand new to bitcoin (like ONLY 1 month in) or if the guy had been accumulating for 2 cycles already, so he had already invested around $40k into bitcoin.

Guys account for their situation, and it is up to them how to do it, but they should at least consider all three options.

Yeah I get that situations and circumstances can affect the method or strategies an individual employs to use, It’s also important to consider all three strategies cause they’re also good if not they wouldn’t be considered strategies and also  a good mix is good but I’ll still say in 70% of those situations Dollar Cost Average has the best results.
But at the end of the day an individual has to choose what’s best for him and his financial status.

The one who lump sum will do better if the price ends up going up, and the one who DCA'd will end up doing better if the BTC price ended up going down.

Even if the guy has suspicions about the potential BTC price direction, mostly he does not know in advance if the BTC price is going to go up, down or sideways.

I think lump sum is most beneficial in times of dip,

That is not called lump sum. That is called buying the dip. 

Sure if you get a lump sum and the BTC price had been dropping for the previous week or two, and you think that the dip is not over, then sure, you could be correct that some advantage comes from buying as the price is dipping, even though the price direction could reverse at any time.

Yeah that’s why I say it’s most beneficial at the dip, when you lump-sum at the dip so that’s called Buying the dip? And not lump sum, I think it should be both cause you’re buying with a huge amount a lot more than you normally DCA, my thoughts though you have the better experience and understanding.

If the goal is to accumulate more bitcoin faster and cheaper at all times DCA gives us that, yet there are rooms for other strategies and this is because investors differ and their financial strength differs too, I think people who can afford to lump sum and wouldn’t mind are those who have gone far in their bitcoin accumulation or those who have a lot of discretionary money at their disposal and is still accumulating consistently and aggressively  as possible on the DCA. There are cases where an individual’s lump sum is just someone else’s regular DCA.

He might not consider it a missed opportunity if he had already been buying for two cycles or more.

Surely the shorter time that he has been in, then probably he would be better to error on the side of buying right away, so even in my case of $5k, he might invest $4k right away (like over the space of 1-2 weeks) and then maybe he saves $1k for buying on dips, so then he might have 3 orders of $333 each for every 5% that the BTC price goes down, and with the expectation that he might end up holding parts if not all of the $1k rather than investing it at dip prices that might not end up happening.  He ultimately figures out an approach that is based on his own psychology and his finances, but it also depends on how much BTC he had already accumulated (and when and how he made those prior BTC purchases). 
time.

I totally agree with you if the individual has been accumulating for two cycles he must have accumulated a reasonable amount or already at over accumulation stage depending on how whimply or aggressive he has been, and must have garnered enough knowledge to know when best to lump sum or wait for dip or not. The strategy you used as an example with the $5k is also good mix of strategies.

[Kelward]

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

So, buying the dip and lump sum are not the same thing, it's just that people do their things differently. Some may decide to invest their money once, while others will wait for a dip. But, in the end, it will depends on how the person thinks and the kind of risk they are willing to take.

What is the best price quoted by the Bitcoin guy? Do those who actually wait to buy Bitcoin at DIP really find the DIP price? For example, suppose when the price of Bitcoin was $60,000, a person planned to invest in Bitcoin but not at this price, he would start buying when the price drops. But when the price of Bitcoin reached $40,000, it was found that he was still not investing, when he was asked why he was not buying now that the DIP price was higher than the previous price? His answer would be that he wanted to wait for more DIP. Again he waited for a while and it was found that the price of Bitcoin had dropped to $20,000 and this time he still did not invest in Bitcoin, again he was asked why he was not buying Bitcoin. He said that Bitcoin had reached $60,000 to $20,000 and its price would drop further. Along with this, many other thoughts came to his mind as to whether Bitcoin is actually a real asset. That's why he couldn't invest even after it reached $60,000 to $20,000. He wanted to wait more, but later it turned out that its price had increased to $30,000. He then said, "I got it for $20,000, I didn't buy it. Now the price is high, and when the price of Bitcoin drops, I will invest here."
To be honest, this is the reality for those who wait for DIP to invest in Bitcoin. They don't actually find the real DIP, so they can't invest and later regret it.

What I tell fellow Bitcoin investors when we are having chats is that we should buy when we have available funds for it. No need to wait for it to dip before buying because you don't control it's price, it is a volatile asset that can swing up or down without notice. If you believe that Bitcoin can always reach ATH in every bull circles that should be your focus because at any price that you buy you'd always be in sure profit when another ATH happens.

This is why it's important to think long term if you want to have sure ROI in Bitcoin investment. Have a solid plan for it, either it's DCA method or buying in lump sum let the goal be to hodl for a long term between 8 to 10 years and beyond.

[Jostern]

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

So, buying the dip and lump sum are not the same thing, it's just that people do their things differently. Some may decide to invest their money once, while others will wait for a dip. But, in the end, it will depends on how the person thinks and the kind of risk they are willing to take.

What is the best price quoted by the Bitcoin guy? Do those who actually wait to buy Bitcoin at DIP really find the DIP price? For example, suppose when the price of Bitcoin was $60,000, a person planned to invest in Bitcoin but not at this price, he would start buying when the price drops. But when the price of Bitcoin reached $40,000, it was found that he was still not investing, when he was asked why he was not buying now that the DIP price was higher than the previous price? His answer would be that he wanted to wait for more DIP. Again he waited for a while and it was found that the price of Bitcoin had dropped to $20,000 and this time he still did not invest in Bitcoin, again he was asked why he was not buying Bitcoin. He said that Bitcoin had reached $60,000 to $20,000 and its price would drop further. Along with this, many other thoughts came to his mind as to whether Bitcoin is actually a real asset. That's why he couldn't invest even after it reached $60,000 to $20,000. He wanted to wait more, but later it turned out that its price had increased to $30,000. He then said, "I got it for $20,000, I didn't buy it. Now the price is high, and when the price of Bitcoin drops, I will invest here."
To be honest, this is the reality for those who wait for DIP to invest in Bitcoin. They don't actually find the real DIP, so they can't invest
and later regret it.

What I tell fellow Bitcoin investors when we are having chats is that we should buy when we have available funds for it. No need to wait for it to dip before buying because you don't control it's price, it is a volatile asset that can swing up or down without notice. If you believe that Bitcoin can always reach ATH in every bull circles that should be your focus because at any price that you buy you'd always be in sure profit when another ATH happens.

This is why it's important to think long term if you want to have sure ROI in Bitcoin investment. Have a solid plan for it, either it's DCA method or buying in lump sum let the goal be to hodl for a long term between 8 to 10 years and beyond.

That is actually true, I don’t ever believe there should be a time where someone who is interested in buying bitcoin should be waiting to buy the dip, and wasting their precious time on something else which is not really important and could probably loose our investment on other things, sometimes I was quite confused when it comes to buying and accumulating bitcoin, because I usually used to think that I would need a whole lot of money to be able to buy and accumulate bitcoin, but then I realized I could actually buy bitcoin  little by little instead of waiting for a dip,

Then I realized that I can always buy bitcoin little by little on a regular basis considering when I have a discretionary income, then I tried to increase my cashflow as well to buy and accumulate more bitcoin through having more more discretionary income.

[Spaceman1000$]

DCA is effective in the process of averaging against volatility and putting purchases in an ordinary income stream, however, when you have a lump sum, it may be worthwhile to buy on the downside or buy more actively. It all depends on whether you have an effective plan and with a clear plan, you should not touch on monies that are likely to impact on your necessities. Basically, both strategies can be applied using the same capital, it is primarily a matter of timing, risk-taking, and disciplineness when using discretionary funds.

The discretionary income to be used depends on the level of your comfort and not even about the market environment and If you say buying on a Lump sum is worth while buying on the down side then to me you are describing buying the dip and not buying with the lump sum, because talking about buying with the lump sum has nothing to do with the market conditions but rather an investor decision to buy immediately with the available Lump sum amount irrespective of the market conditions,

You are right, however I believe that some people prefer not to invest all of their money at once without thinking about market conditions first. Sure, a lump sum means you invest everything all at once, but not everyone is comfortable with that.  Many people choose to wait for a better price before investing their money, because no one wants to buy when the market is too high.

So, buying the dip and lump sum are not the same thing, it's just that people do their things differently. Some may decide to invest their money once, while others will wait for a dip. But, in the end, it will depends on how the person thinks and the kind of risk they are willing to take.

Lump sum for me is a good strategy no doubt, but it looks like it gives little room for discretion, because sometimes i think an investor should be investing on a gradual basis since the investment is for long term basis especially bitcoin. Although some investors can decide to lump sum when there is a dip, but why not use the DCA method instead and increase your lot size hence you notice a dip.