Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat

[SeymourT]

Then this will fall under the same category of this issue. Who classifies the game as fixed match and why it’s not under investigation until now?

[...]

We need an expert to answer that but [...].

Not only an expert, that answer should come from the authorities investigating the case thoroughly, questioning every party involved and draw their conclusion from those findings.

This is the issue being discussed and repetitively pointed out here, one can easily say the match is rigged according to their opinion, be it through educated guess, a comprehensive study of the match pattern frame by frame, a random rambling, or whatever, they have the capability to draw that conclusion, but no one other than the authorities appointed by the officials of that league has the capacity to draw it.

I believe this is also the reason why AG refuses to mediate. They have experts who are fluent in mediating as well as finding and validating evidences, but they are well aware that they have no capacity to rule a game as fixed.

For someone who goes to a length to make a --by your own words-- teaching post to correct everybody here, because no one seemed right in the thread, you seem failed to read that issue being pointed out through several replies.

I'm trying to teach you that that it's common for very low level football matches to be fixed and no investigations are done and the bookmaker makes the decision.

[holydarkness]

Not only an expert, that answer should come from the authorities investigating the case thoroughly, questioning every party involved and draw their conclusion from those findings.

This is the issue being discussed and repetitively pointed out here, one can easily say the match is rigged according to their opinion, be it through educated guess, a comprehensive study of the match pattern frame by frame, a random rambling, or whatever, they have the capability to draw that conclusion, but no one other than the authorities appointed by the officials of that league has the capacity to draw it.

I believe this is also the reason why AG refuses to mediate. They have experts who are fluent in mediating as well as finding and validating evidences, but they are well aware that they have no capacity to rule a game as fixed.

For someone who goes to a length to make a --by your own words-- teaching post to correct everybody here, because no one seemed right in the thread, you seem failed to read that issue being pointed out through several replies.

I'm trying to teach you that that it's common for very low level football matches to be fixed and no investigations are done and the bookmaker makes the decision.

Oh, how generous of you. And what gave you the impression that that idea didn't cross any of our mind? That you need to bother to create an account to state the obvious; that low level football matches are easy to manipulate?

[SeymourT]

Not only an expert, that answer should come from the authorities investigating the case thoroughly, questioning every party involved and draw their conclusion from those findings.

This is the issue being discussed and repetitively pointed out here, one can easily say the match is rigged according to their opinion, be it through educated guess, a comprehensive study of the match pattern frame by frame, a random rambling, or whatever, they have the capability to draw that conclusion, but no one other than the authorities appointed by the officials of that league has the capacity to draw it.

I believe this is also the reason why AG refuses to mediate. They have experts who are fluent in mediating as well as finding and validating evidences, but they are well aware that they have no capacity to rule a game as fixed.

For someone who goes to a length to make a --by your own words-- teaching post to correct everybody here, because no one seemed right in the thread, you seem failed to read that issue being pointed out through several replies.

I'm trying to teach you that that it's common for very low level football matches to be fixed and no investigations are done and the bookmaker makes the decision.

Oh, how generous of you. And what gave you the impression that that idea didn't cross any of our mind? That you need to bother to create an account to state the obvious; that low level football matches are easy to manipulate?

Crossing your mind is different than stating the obvious that the match was fixed. I'll sum it up hoping the thread gets closed. Fairlay doesn't always act as an exchange. If Fairlay or Pinnacle allows cheating then this group will start paying off ping pong players and others looking for fast money. Fairlay or Pinnacle decided to go with high limits and not pay cheaters instead of small limits.

[johanJ]

its VERY curious that one Fairlay defender stops posting and then another account is created and starts to pitch a different defense idea trying to TEACH the users different things.

Let me teach you something also.

The article you linked mentions FRIENDLY games, meaning there were UNOFFICIAL games. The federation in question even said they did  not take place.

In this thread the matches in questions are OFFICIAL matches easily provable by the many federations in questions even MONTHS after they took place.

See the difference? OFFICIAL versus UNOFFICIAL.

Second thing, the bookies DO NOT HAVE the right to decide a match was fixed or not. If a crime was committed, only police or the local courts can decide that.

See the difference? POLICE versus a bookie that lost money on a game and want to make it like it was fixed.

[SeymourT]

its VERY curious that one Fairlay defender stops posting and then another account is created and starts to pitch a different defense idea trying to TEACH the users different things.

Let me teach you something also.

The article you linked mentions FRIENDLY games, meaning there were UNOFFICIAL games. The federation in question even said they did  not take place.

In this thread the matches in questions are OFFICIAL matches easily provable by the many federations in questions even MONTHS after they took place.

See the difference? OFFICIAL versus UNOFFICIAL.

Second thing, the bookies DO NOT HAVE the right to decide a match was fixed or not. If a crime was committed, only police or the local courts can decide that.

See the difference? POLICE versus a bookie that lost money on a game and want to make it like it was fixed.

What's interesting is that three posters with activity over 3000 say the match was fixed. Most with less say it wasn't fixed. See the difference. If no other major bookmakers took large wagers than no one is going to look in to this fixed match. Watch the YouTube video of the match to see there are no fans there and this is normally not heavily bet. Hundreds of matches are fixed in football, tennis, ping pong. Even if it is investigated it can take a year and the bookmaker has to make a quick decision.

[johanJ]

i am 100% sure that the members you mentioned are not 100% sure that the match was fixed.

additionally, it does not really matter what some people on an internet forum think. It does not matter how much activity those people have.

UNLESS, those members actually work for FBI or something 

What matters is what police of those different countries think.

[SeymourT]

i am 100% sure that the members you mentioned are not 100% sure that the match was fixed.

additionally, it does not really matter what some people on an internet forum think. It does not matter how much activity those people have.

UNLESS, those members actually work for FBI or something 

What matters is what police of those different countries think.

How many times do I have to say it. THE POLICE DON"T INVESTIGATE MOST FIXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For criminal gangs, match-fixing remains an almost perfect and investigation-free crime to commit.

Now look at this game. No one will investigate and close to no one watched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4rC7403Dc4

[SeymourT]

It can even take a year for major leagues to start being investigated. Brazils Serie A and Serie B
cnn.com/2023/05/11/football/brazil-soccer-match-fixing-investigation-spt-intl/index.html#:~:text=Brazilian%20soccer%20has%20become%20embroiled%20in%20a%20match-fixing%20scandal.&text=Brazilian%20authorities%20have%20launched%20a,in%20a%20statement%20on%20Wednesday.

[Upgrade00]

<snip>

Is this match between Liverpool and Manchester City obviously fixed?
https://youtu.be/j_6iRCcfYu8?si=CYrwBsPAyXOkGMqb
Focus from 00:50

How about this between Liverpool and Real Madrid (2018 final)
https://youtu.be/rtFGpfrdlMI?si=Qoh0lYjh63tpvSsD

This should tell you that personal opinion means nothing when it comes to determining incidence of crime like match fixing. A match can be suspicious to different people, but needs an authority to determine that.

[SeymourT]

<snip>

Is this match between Liverpool and Manchester City obviously fixed?
https://youtu.be/j_6iRCcfYu8?si=CYrwBsPAyXOkGMqb
Focus from 00:50

How about this between Liverpool and Real Madrid (2018 final)
https://youtu.be/rtFGpfrdlMI?si=Qoh0lYjh63tpvSsD

This should tell you that personal opinion means nothing when it comes to determining incidence of crime like match fixing. A match can be suspicious to different people, but needs an authority to determine that.

Bookmakers would be withholding money for years if they had to wait to see how an authority would rule. Tiny markets don't get investigated. The bookmaker makes the decision in tiny markets on their opinion and it's never going to change. It's been done that way forever. You are trying to make up your own rules.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

<snip>

Is this match between Liverpool and Manchester City obviously fixed?
https://youtu.be/j_6iRCcfYu8?si=CYrwBsPAyXOkGMqb
Focus from 00:50

How about this between Liverpool and Real Madrid (2018 final)
https://youtu.be/rtFGpfrdlMI?si=Qoh0lYjh63tpvSsD

This should tell you that personal opinion means nothing when it comes to determining incidence of crime like match fixing. A match can be suspicious to different people, but needs an authority to determine that.

Bookmakers would be withholding money for years if they had to wait to see how an authority would rule. Tiny markets don't get investigated. The bookmaker makes the decision in tiny markets on their opinion and it's never going to change. It's been done that way forever. You are trying to make up your own rules.

<snip>

Is this match between Liverpool and Manchester City obviously fixed?
https://youtu.be/j_6iRCcfYu8?si=CYrwBsPAyXOkGMqb
Focus from 00:50

How about this between Liverpool and Real Madrid (2018 final)
https://youtu.be/rtFGpfrdlMI?si=Qoh0lYjh63tpvSsD

This should tell you that personal opinion means nothing when it comes to determining incidence of crime like match fixing. A match can be suspicious to different people, but needs an authority to determine that.

What you indeed are forgetting, not only does fairlay accuse the player to having made bets on fixed games, they also say he is the fixer because he is Ukranian and some of the players are from the Ukraine as well.
Well, maybe not the fixer but he supposedly is involved. That's hilariou.

The banned his account, a normal bookie would void a game and refund the wager amounts, yet fairlay tends to keep the whole bill for whatever reason.

But hey, you got our opinion straight anyway with your burner account, congratulations. The 3 3000k activity accounts that said this game was 100% fixed have yet to be spotted by the way.

[SeymourT]

<snip>

Is this match between Liverpool and Manchester City obviously fixed?
https://youtu.be/j_6iRCcfYu8?si=CYrwBsPAyXOkGMqb
Focus from 00:50

How about this between Liverpool and Real Madrid (2018 final)
https://youtu.be/rtFGpfrdlMI?si=Qoh0lYjh63tpvSsD

This should tell you that personal opinion means nothing when it comes to determining incidence of crime like match fixing. A match can be suspicious to different people, but needs an authority to determine that.

Bookmakers would be withholding money for years if they had to wait to see how an authority would rule. Tiny markets don't get investigated. The bookmaker makes the decision in tiny markets on their opinion and it's never going to change. It's been done that way forever. You are trying to make up your own rules.

<snip>

Is this match between Liverpool and Manchester City obviously fixed?
https://youtu.be/j_6iRCcfYu8?si=CYrwBsPAyXOkGMqb
Focus from 00:50

How about this between Liverpool and Real Madrid (2018 final)
https://youtu.be/rtFGpfrdlMI?si=Qoh0lYjh63tpvSsD

This should tell you that personal opinion means nothing when it comes to determining incidence of crime like match fixing. A match can be suspicious to different people, but needs an authority to determine that.

What you indeed are forgetting, not only does fairlay accuse the player to having made bets on fixed games, they also say he is the fixer because he is Ukranian and some of the players are from the Ukraine as well.
Well, maybe not the fixer but he supposedly is involved. That's hilariou.

The banned his account, a normal bookie would void a game and refund the wager amounts, yet fairlay tends to keep the whole bill for whatever reason.

But hey, you got our opinion straight anyway with your burner account, congratulations. The 3 3000k activity accounts that said this game was 100% fixed have yet to be spotted by the way.

You are putting words in Fairlays mouth since that's not what they said. You did the same with me. I said that the three accounts said likely.

Haunebu, LFC Bitcoin, Rating Place

Interesting. That's a lot of evidence against op and I feel like your team did the right thing here since he clearly took advantage of fixed matches in a pretty transparent manner and expected to get away since your site is a betting exchange.

The red cards, own goals & particularly goalkeeping performances certainly point towards the potential of likely match fixing.

We agree the games were rigged. At least you don’t deny it.

Don't try and change the normal procedure. The bookmaker has always made the decision on their opinion. The mediator should do the same.

[johanJ]

The red cards, own goals & particularly goalkeeping performances certainly point towards the potential of likely match fixing.

that three posters with activity over 3000 say the match was fixed.

thats VERY nice MANIPULATION from your side, CONGRATS. You should ask fairlay to double your fee, to manipulate others words like this is a very hard work 

other thing - those 3 quotes were made based only on the fairlay words, before the bettor had any chance to speak up. I think the bettor even pointed out some lies in the fairlays original post.

[SeymourT]

The red cards, own goals & particularly goalkeeping performances certainly point towards the potential of likely match fixing.

that three posters with activity over 3000 say the match was fixed.

thats VERY nice MANIPULATION from your side, CONGRATS. You should ask fairlay to double your fee, to manipulate others words like this is a very hard work 

other thing - those 3 quotes were made based only on the fairlay words, before the bettor had any chance to speak up. I think the bettor even pointed out some lies in the fairlays original post.

This shows your stupidity. Fairlay stopped posting a month ago. They aren't going to pay someone with a burner account to continue this crap show where you twist their words. It's just as stupid as thinking a bookmaker waits for authorities to determine fixed matches. It's the bookmakers opinion that counts.

[mak013]

No one can prove that match is fixed except the official league administration. All of us can have only their own opinion. And the casino decided that it was fixed match. I don`t think that it is fair decision - it is their own opinion too.
At least the casino must return the bet to gambler, but it would be better to pay his prize.
PS. I never heard about casino, who return lost bets in the fixed matches.

[SeymourT]

No one can prove that match is fixed except the official league administration. All of us can have only their own opinion. And the casino decided that it was fixed match. I don`t think that it is fair decision - it is their own opinion too.
At least the casino must return the bet to gambler, but it would be better to pay his prize.
PS. I never heard about casino, who return lost bets in the fixed matches.

How does an official ruling on match fixing make any difference in the payout? There are three suspicious matches every day and the bookmaker can't withhold money for a year on three matches every day waiting for some type of league administration to rule. The investigations may not even start for a month and most don't start. We have to stay in the real world instead of making stuff up on how it should be done. The bookmaker makes the decision since no one has any idea if an investigation will be started. The bookmakers marked the match as suspicious even the ones that paid.

[LEVSKI7]

No one can prove that match is fixed except the official league administration. All of us can have only their own opinion. And the casino decided that it was fixed match. I don`t think that it is fair decision - it is their own opinion too.
At least the casino must return the bet to gambler, but it would be better to pay his prize.
PS. I never heard about casino, who return lost bets in the fixed matches.

Another issue is that there is a sanction only for the organizer. The other people's profits are not canceled. Only the police can investigate.

[LEVSKI7]

it is also a fact that the bookmakers arrange the outcome to be in their favor depending on the accumulation of money on a given outcome. and this becomes easy because they sponsor all the teams = at least that's how it is with us
for example, I see an advantage in a certain volleyball line. apparently the provider's judgment is incorrect. I give a prediction. for a short time, a huge number of bets are made. the line is corrected. but it is late. there will be big losses for the site. and what happens. everything goes normally 1 game 25 -12 2 game 25-10. and hop 3 game 23-25. 4 game again 25-10. and when accumulating they always do this.

[Woodie]

~snop~
What you indeed are forgetting, not only does fairlay accuse the player to having made bets on fixed games, they also say he is the fixer because he is Ukranian and some of the players are from the Ukraine as well.
Well, maybe not the fixer but he supposedly is involved. That's hilariou.

The banned his account, a normal bookie would void a game and refund the wager amounts, yet fairlay tends to keep the whole bill for whatever reason.

So many bad calls made by fairlay tbh , first they profile a user based on their nationality and just because a few players  from the waged game are from Ukraine they are calling it match fixing, come on....if anything, if they want to prove something isn't right here it has to be against the players and not the gambler!!!
It's quiet embarrassing to see the route fairlay has taken, otherwise if someone is to be punished it has to be those players that will probably get fined if found in the wrong and not the gambler!!

Best way to resolve this is refund wagers by making bet void this way it's a win-win for everyone!!!

[Haunebu]

It's quiet embarrassing to see the route fairlay has taken, otherwise if someone is to be punished it has to be those players that will probably get fined if found in the wrong and not the gambler!!

Best way to resolve this is refund wagers by making bet void this way it's a win-win for everyone!!!

What makes this entire situation weird is the fact that Fairlay is a sports betting exchange and betting exchanges don't usually focus on this sort of stuff unlike regular sportsbooks like Pinnacle etc.

The punter in question was definitely shady based on the evidence that they provided, but it was never confirmed beyond a doubt thanks to Fairlay's unilateral decision. Bizarre situation overall!