Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat

[FairlayBTCPredictions]

By the way @fairley, quite sending PMs to users here in this forum trying to lure them to your site, I don't appreciate that and it's rather annoying. Since this is a different bitcointalk account but clearly this person is working for you guys ( official fairlay email address ) I assume it is an official representative.

Hi. Just to confirm that on Monday 14 I did send such messages to three users at forum. Before that, two users asked at Fairlay topic to buy accounts from users that have open accounts but don't use them.

Thus, wanting to stop those two forum users from buying Fairlay accounts (and other users from selling their accounts), invites were sent to test the new platform for free.

Message to you was the third one. It was sent as in the continuation of these messages about buying/selling account you mentioned that you would like to test the platform as well, so in a way we also tried to stop someone else from offering/selling you account.

All in all, we didn't try lurking any of those users (nor any of them still started testing the new platform), but we just tried to stop accounts from being bought/sold.

[johanJ]

The problem is, I doubt that fairlay as a site lost any money on these bets since there are a betting exchange and not a bookie.
Maybe they also act as a bookie but I can't verify that since the site doesn't really give a lot of information when you are not a member.
At a betting exchange you play against other players and not against the house. So the main question here is, why can fairlay keep the money when they didn't lose any. Have the players that bet this game and lost have been compensated for their losses? If not, why is that so?

I have been asking this question for some days now. In their main thread also. But as other questions in this thread fairlay just ignores and dont comment at all.

There is talk that the default market maker on fairlay is Pinnacle.

By the way @fairley, quite sending PMs to users here in this forum trying to lure them to your site, I don't appreciate that and it's rather annoying. Since this is a different bitcointalk account but clearly this person is working for you guys ( official fairlay email address ) I assume it is an official representative.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/05/31/LBVYP.png

i also received the same message, but as continuation of the questions i asked in their main thread, so i think its fair being messaged like that. What is not ok is them just ignoring my and other peoples questions. That is totally not ok 

[holydarkness]

Coming here from a tag.

I read the whole thread and each of the posts within, sans the links that somewhat became very abundant, safe for some links from the beginning of the thread. Maybe it's my lack of understanding on how fairlay works, and visiting the site doesn't do much help [I think AHOYBRAUSE shared the same sentiment as me] as it didn't enlighten me by much, but from what I can gather so far, I think every posts here just complicate something that's otherwise simple?

If I may ask, FairlaySupport,

One, did the decision that the game was rigged come from your own team or is it coming from a sportsbook provider you use? Based on the discussion this far, as well as from what I can infer from your site, it doesn't seem you have a sportsbook provider, so the decision came from your own. It doesn't hurt to clarify though, hence I ask.

Second, the basis of your bets cancelation is that it's a rigged game? Do you mind to point us out to which clause from your ToS allows you to confiscate a bet with such nature? Far as I can gather, it's just bad lines and these three,



And newfish1, this doesn't instantly says you're not guilty and out of the spotlight. I know you mentioned that you placed bets on many things, depending on the odds, offer availability, limits, etc. and that you have many accounts on many other sportbook. I am interested to know why you zeroed into those exact matches. Forgive me if it's been asked and answered, or if the evidence has been provided in form of wall of text before, I tend to skip those log of matches you've keep providing.

So, to help me, is it possible and do you mind to provide your recent betting history across books? I think one or two weeks around early to mid May is good and will be much appreciated.

[Coin_trader]

Two things right away:

1. I wouldn`t take money just for checking a case and sharing my/our opinion
2. I will share our thoughts during the day
3. Quick and dirty: A betting exchange should never cancel anything

There’s no upside arbitrating this case since there’s no way to prove if the match is indeed fixed match or not unless it was officially announced by the organizer of that match that the game is indeed fixed after an official investigation.

But I really like how fairlay trsuted the heavy name on Bitcointalk when it comes to casino industry. Maybe create a contract or escrow the funds involved first if ever the arbitration on this case will commence since there’s no assurance that Fairlay an opinion that will be against them judging by their action of immediately ban on user account.

Watching closely on what’s your opinion with this trivial case. 

[newfish1]

One of the main Fairlay arguments is that my betting behaviour is very "unnatural" in their view.

In an attempt to prove to Fairlay, that I am a normal gambler (yet big sum bettor), I reached out to them and proposed an alternative resolution to this case.

They return my money to the account and allow me to bet.

Before withdrawing I need to make a turnover of more than half a million dollars (8 BTC to be exact) on biggest possible sporting markets (Grand Slam tennis, football EURO2024 and UEFA Champions League)

If i ever make a bet on a small or shady market, they can confiscate the whole balance

The offer was refused.

In the current thread, even though Fairlay has started it themselves, they just ignore any comments and questions. Not a single explanation given by Fairlay on the many interesting questions they have been asked.

As proved by me here, Fairlay has manipulated my betting history to make it look like i won all bets on one Finish games, where in fact i lost.

Fairlay has brought up the Ukrainian connection in relation, for example, to FC Futura's game, but these accusations are ridiculous seeing how FC Futura lost a combined 4-34 in goals in a 7 game stretch just last season when they had zero Ukrainian players. More details in my post here .

Now I understand that this problem can not be resolved in a "peaceful" manner, so it's better to proceed with an arbitrage panel.

I think that enough people have already been recommended by the respected community here, that we can finally proceed with this process.

As i mentioned before I have yet to show some other hard evidence of Fairlay's wrongdoing, but I would rather show it after we agree on an arbitrage panel, as I feel after people see it, Fairlay may back out ...

Lets all agree on a panel.

P.S. When everything is agreed on, I would share all the evidence and answer any questions asked (I have already provided a lot of information, answered a lot of questions, while Fairlay ignores everything and is yet to answer a single question from the community).

P.S.2 As promised before I still have to share information on my betting strategy and why those bets where taken. As promised, I would do it even before Fairlay finally agrees on a panel. I am not them, I have nothing to hide.

[solsolsols]

i asked in the main thread, but did not get an answer.

This situation is a nice opportunity to actually rephrase my question

so here it is :

were the bets in this case actually matched on/by Pinnacle, i.e. Pinnacle was the market maker ?



for those of you not aware, Fairlay is actually an exchange, kind of like Betair, where anybody can create a market and accept bets on it. Alternatively anybody can bet on markets created by others.

there is always a sporting offer on Fairlay, the markets are exactly as on Pinnacle with the exact same odds. Fairlays terms and conditions mention that they actually use Pinnacle terms and conditions. From some posts and comments i also understood that Pinnacle is the default market maker.

thats why i asked if the above mentioned bets on potential match fixing games were actually matched on/by Pinnacle.

This.  You(Fairlay) risked more than you could afford and now you're trying to cut your losses?


Also why would you need an arbitrator here when you rely completely on Pinnacle? Just ask Pinnacle how they settled those bets. Pretty sure they paid out every cent.
After all Pinny has been in business for 25 years and they know what they are doing, not sure about Fairlay tho.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

This.  You(Fairlay) risked more than you could afford and now you're trying to cut your losses?


Also why would you need an arbitrator here when you rely completely on Pinnacle? Just ask Pinnacle how they settled those bets. Pretty sure they paid out every cent.
After all Pinny has been in business for 25 years and they know what they are doing, not sure about Fairlay tho.

They use pinnacle as a bookie? I thought this is supposed to be a betting exchange. Betting exchanges don't offer bets, they just offer a platform for p2p betting. Very strange.
And yes, the game is question to be flagged is a joke looking at hpw this team perforemed the games before this rsult was more than easy to expect.

Hi. Just to confirm that on Monday 14 I did send such messages to three users at forum. Before that, two users asked at Fairlay topic to buy accounts from users that have open accounts but don't use them.

Thus, wanting to stop those two forum users from buying Fairlay accounts (and other users from selling their accounts), invites were sent to test the new platform for free.

Message to you was the third one. It was sent as in the continuation of these messages about buying/selling account you mentioned that you would like to test the platform as well, so in a way we also tried to stop someone else from offering/selling you account.

All in all, we didn't try lurking any of those users (nor any of them still started testing the new platform), but we just tried to stop accounts from being bought/sold.

And about this. If you send people messages to send you an email at least have the decency to reply to these emails as well, that's the least you can do. Why bother sending these out in the first place if you ignore replies to it.

You just wasted my, and I bet other people's , time.

[pinggoki]

Good job finding out about this matter it seems that the evidences is heavily stacked against OP and I don't think that it's ever fair to say that there's ever any need to have some kind of investigation. If this is a really big deal and it's proven that it's a fixed match, I think that you need to submit this thing with the league because either this is a scandal that might involve only the FCs or this might be a widespread and top level kind of scandal, either way, you're already did your part and told everyone about this one so you can safely report this to the concerned authorities, if something were to happen to you or your website, a lot of people will know about it and there's going to be clamor over this scandal.

[Haunebu]

As i mentioned before I have yet to show some other hard evidence of Fairlay's wrongdoing, but I would rather show it after we agree on an arbitrage panel, as I feel after people see it, Fairlay may back out ...

Lets all agree on a panel.

P.S. When everything is agreed on, I would share all the evidence and answer any questions asked (I have already provided a lot of information, answered a lot of questions, while Fairlay ignores everything and is yet to answer a single question from the community).

P.S.2 As promised before I still have to share information on my betting strategy and why those bets where taken. As promised, I would do it even before Fairlay finally agrees on a panel. I am not them, I have nothing to hide.

Great to see the civilised manner in which you are dealing with this entire ordeal. Evidence that Fairlay provided does make your betting behaviour seem quite shady, but it doesn't automatically confirm their claims as facts.

As you mentioned yourself, a reputed arbitrator could resolve this entire mess pretty quickly. Also, I don't see them backing out since they literally suggested it themselves.

[holydarkness]

[...]

As you mentioned yourself, a reputed arbitrator could resolve this entire mess pretty quickly. Also, I don't see them backing out since they literally suggested it themselves.

This? With AskGamblers?

@newfish1 wouid you agree  to have askgamblers.com as arbitrator in this case?[...]

I am failed to see how. I do a quick check at AG and didn't see fairlay as one of the platform they reviewed and mediate.


newfish1, still waiting for those betting history across platforms from during the period of the bet in question. If you don't mind to provide it here, the soonest you provide them, the soonest one or two thing can be crossed from the list.

[newfish1]

newfish1, still waiting for those betting history across platforms from during the period of the bet in question. If you don't mind to provide it here, the soonest you provide them, the soonest one or two thing can be crossed from the list.

I have actually provided already a screenshot of history of one of the books I use. Apart from a 50+ thousand bet on Usyk, you can actually see the bets on the same Finish championship, for example. You can check in detail in this post.

The other ones will be provided to the arbitrator panel. As right now I am the only side providing any evidence, explanations and answering questions. Fairlay simply decides to ignore all the questions and instead to forge the evidence (as proved here)

Having said that, as promised, I will provide a little explanation of my betting strategy with an example, that actually once again proves that I have done nothing wrong. Just need a little bit more time.

[FairlaySupport]

We are still looking for an arbitrator and are in contact with AskGamblers.com and others.    If you have further suggestions for parties that resolve these cases in a quick manner, please share them with us! Thanks a lot!

Here again a full betting history of the user

Page 1 / All bets won

Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.259   Ilves Kissat +4.0   98.99   05/19/2024 12:18   124.68   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.519   Ilves Kissat +4.0   150.00   05/19/2024 12:17   227.96   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.169   Ilves Kissat +3.75   149.99   05/19/2024 12:16   175.43   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.209   Ilves Kissat +3.75   150.00   05/19/2024 12:15   181.37   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.639   Ilves Kissat +4.0   150.00   05/19/2024 12:15   245.90   05/19/2024 12:44
Ilves Kissat vs. Tampere United   2.769   Ilves Kissat +4.0   100.00   05/19/2024 12:13   176.99   05/19/2024 12:44
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.069   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   49.65   05/18/2024 13:25   53.11   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.653   Centro Limoeirense +5.0   50.00   05/18/2024 13:25   32.67   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.892   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   49.00   05/18/2024 13:24   43.75   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.089   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   49.67   05/18/2024 13:24   54.11   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.909   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   49.99   05/18/2024 13:24   45.45   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.179   Centro Limoeirense +5.5   74.70   05/18/2024 13:23   88.10   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.019   Centro Limoeirense +5.25   50.00   05/18/2024 13:21   50.96   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   1.787   Centro Limoeirense +5.0   50.00   05/18/2024 13:21   39.37   05/18/2024 13:53
Centro Limoeirense vs. Clube Atletico Torres   2.618   Centro Limoeirense +4.25   74.22   05/18/2024 13:17   120.11   05/18/2024 13:50
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   1.990   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   70.00   05/17/2024 18:42   69.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.790   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:41   125.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.730   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:41   121.10   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   1.917   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   80.00   05/17/2024 18:40   73.36   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.490   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   70.00   05/17/2024 18:40   104.30   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.180   Botafogo FC SP -2.75   70.00   05/17/2024 18:40   82.60   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.070   Botafogo FC SP -2.5   74.00   05/17/2024 18:39   79.18   05/17/2024 19:11
Botafogo FC SP vs. Inter de Bebedouro   2.760   Botafogo FC SP -3.0   59.00   05/17/2024 18:38   103.84   05/17/2024 19:11
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.860   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   186.00   05/12/2024 13:55
FC Kiffen vs. FC Futura   2.840   FC Kiffen -4.5   100.00   05/12/2024 13:27   184.00   05/12/2024 13:55


Page 2   as screenshot as some bets are lost

https://imgur.com/a/OmcQ2dB

[slaman29]

For someone here at BCT I think that holydarkness would be a good arbitrator as he seems to be the main poster in scam accusations.

I think good arbitrators aren't just about people who bust scams. That's to me very different. You need a few things.

Someone who is trusted to act on the right side, and who has shown in many instances that they can be trusted
Also well known in the gambling section, who also gambles, and has long experience there (this is super important to me)
Also knows the sports involved, this is about football matchfixing
Also has history of helping forum without payment or recognition

I don't disagree about holydarkness or anyone else mentioned, but I mentioned the ones I said because they fit all the above criteria, they actually gamble, they know the different sportsbooks, and I believe more important, they have been involved in arbitration before. At least I know two of them personally arbitrated, one even for me many years ago. They didn't take payment, and didn't even ask for acknowledgment, and even I know two of them helped sooo many people but you don't even see trust rating for that.

One more thing to respect objectivity and transparency Both Fairlay and the accused user should agree on this 'panel' also, and communication should be out in open, not in PMs. Just my 2 cents!

[newfish1]

I think good arbitrators aren't just about people who bust scams. That's to me very different. You need a few things.

Someone who is trusted to act on the right side, and who has shown in many instances that they can be trusted
Also well known in the gambling section, who also gambles, and has long experience there (this is super important to me)
Also knows the sports involved, this is about football matchfixing
Also has history of helping forum without payment or recognition

I don't disagree about holydarkness or anyone else mentioned, but I mentioned the ones I said because they fit all the above criteria, they actually gamble, they know the different sportsbooks, and I believe more important, they have been involved in arbitration before. At least I know two of them personally arbitrated, one even for me many years ago. They didn't take payment, and didn't even ask for acknowledgment, and even I know two of them helped sooo many people but you don't even see trust rating for that.

One more thing to respect objectivity and transparency Both Fairlay and the accused user should agree on this 'panel' also, and communication should be out in open, not in PMs. Just my 2 cents!

I totally agree. As far as i am concerned, I feel that all the members of BitcoinTalk community mentioned here, that have replied in this thread, are worthy nominees for the panel. I have no objections.

I think we can proceed and confirm those panel members finally, if they are ok with it. I look forward to it.

Thank you.

[efialtis]

@Fairlay Some questions and thoughts from our side (BTCGOSU/GOSUBETTING)

1.) What is your role in the markets? Is your business model based solely on the fact that you “live” from commissions? If so, you couldn't care less about any of this in the first place?!

2.) Why do you want to cancel/void? Out of your own initiative or because another user complained because he lost a lot?!

3.) After consulting with tyKiwanuka (a professional sports bettor and industry insider), we agree that an exchange should basically never cancel/void - there are always fixed games and most of the time you don't realize it - if you start canceling/voiding now, you have discussions every day. Plus, as you said yourselves, other bookies may have marked the matches as suspicious but that obviously wasn`t enough since they graded the bets. Needless to say that most of the time, it`s not even possible to prove fixes.

4.) Example from tyKiwanuka`s personal experience: Betfair once canceled/voided tennis matches from Davydenko. It was a clear fix, but he still thought voiding was stupid, even if it meant he got my loss back. Sometimes you benefit from fixes, sometimes you lose, that's just the way it is and part of the game. Ultimately, it's a competition between bettors - with all that that entails.

5.) Normally, exchanges only cancel if they have lost a lot themselves. However, a good exchange does not interfere in the markets, but only takes the commission. That`s why to us, 1.) is very important and we are curious to learn more.

6.) A very important point from a bettor perspective is being able to rely on bets standing.

Scenario:

I bet (live) on a match at Fairlay and it goes well. I'm not a fixer and don't know anything about the fix. But now it's getting a bit too hot for me and I hedge my bets elsewhere (could be next goal markets or similar, which may not be available at Fairlay).

Now Fairlay cancels, but the others don't:

All profit is gone.

The loss from my hedging remains.

-> An honest bettor was punished because an exchange canceled/voided.

Looking forward to hearing back from you.

[Beparanf]

https://imgur.com/a/OmcQ2dB

The guy clearly has the same betting pattern from his old bets compared to the current bet which fixed match is being accused based on the betting history you provided with this screenshot.

The bets was placed on different date with huge gap. Judging from the betting history, he is just having a tough luck or probably following a good bet call. I believe the higher winning percentage is what fuel the fixed match accusation but the guy is using your platform for many months with same betting pattern.

He has a solid insider info if all his bets is from a fixed match. You should just restrict him rather than banning him if he is winning frequently.

[newfish1]

Fairlay reached out to me yesterday morning regarding the arbitration

It would be very fitting to have you as the first member of the arbitrage panel.

I agree, Fairlay reached out to you, so they obviously agree also. Its your decision.

Do you agree please ?

Thanks

[holydarkness]

I think [...]

I don't disagree about holydarkness or anyone else mentioned, but I mentioned the ones I said because they fit all the above criteria, [...]

Well... umm... this is awkward.

newfish1, still waiting for those betting history across platforms from during the period of the bet in question. If you don't mind to provide it here, the soonest you provide them, the soonest one or two thing can be crossed from the list.

I have actually provided already a screenshot of history of one of the books I use. Apart from a 50+ thousand bet on Usyk, you can actually see the bets on the same Finish championship, for example. You can check in detail in this post.

The other ones will be provided to the arbitrator panel. As right now I am the only side providing any evidence, explanations and answering questions. Fairlay simply decides to ignore all the questions and instead to forge the evidence (as proved here)

Having said that, as promised, I will provide a little explanation of my betting strategy with an example, that actually once again proves that I have done nothing wrong. Just need a little bit more time.

Actually... what you provided there are the ones that I look during my initial cursory glance, and they're not quite successful in painting a good picture of your past betting history. But I [personally] believe that is not necessary anymore. The one provided by OP from their own platform shows what's needed: that there is not much difference.

If I may explain, my previous inquiry was to see for myself whether there is a sudden change of betting preference that will clearly indicate a foul play [e.g. you usually bet on major league and suddenly placed bets on the problematic matches in question].

We are still looking for an arbitrator and are in contact with AskGamblers.com and others. [...]

And I'm still looking for your help in understanding this case better. Hopefully it can be achieved from your answer to my past questions. Do you mind?

Allow me to repeat:

[...]
One, did the decision that the game was rigged come from your own team or is it coming from a sportsbook provider you use? Based on the discussion this far, as well as from what I can infer from your site, it doesn't seem you have a sportsbook provider, so the decision came from your own. It doesn't hurt to clarify though, hence I ask.

Second, the basis of your bets cancelation is that it's a rigged game? Do you mind to point us out to which clause from your ToS allows you to confiscate a bet with such nature? Far as I can gather, it's just bad lines and these three,

[...]

[Woodie]

I remember one case on the forum that involved some kind of match fixing in an NBA game, and what the bookie did was not confiscate the players funds immediately but delayed the withdraw to the player has investigations were going on...a few weeks later NBA player was found guilty by the NBA and if I recall well I think this bet should have been settled void.

Now ,am thinking in a case you suspect a match is fixed, don't you have channels to follow to raise an alarm for such matches to be investigated because calling it by yourselves makes you  judge, jury, and executioner and this should not be based on your own  suspicion.

So if the matches involved have no official communication from these football bodies about match fixing, then player shouldn't be punished this way but you could use your  discretion to cut your business ties with the player based on their playing style... perphaps refund deposit and close their account!!

Reuploaded https://imgur.com/a/OmcQ2dB to talkimg


Looks normal to me  

[AHOYBRAUSE]

I remember one case on the forum that involved some kind of match fixing in an NBA game, and what the bookie did was not confiscate the players funds immediately but delayed the withdraw to the player has investigations were going on...a few weeks later NBA player was found guilty by the NBA and if I recall well I think this bet should have been settled void.

Actually the bookie you mention (stake) did not just void the bets, they voided them and also kept his initial wager, basically showing him the door without giving him his deposit or whatever.

snip

Well, I couldn't have said it any better. This post pretty much sums it up perfectly and this is exactly what went through my mind as well.
Hopefully fairlay will finally also reply to some constructive criticism and not only what they feel is right. If players that bet on the opposite side of the "fixed match" have been refunded or not has still not been answered, even though I and other people asked that several times.
Also how they are getting involved even though they just offer the platform for people to place bets against each other rather than playing against the house is also beyond me. Fairlay should have had no loss, they collect their fee no matter what.
That's how an exchange works, right?