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Author Topic: Potential Match Fixing involving Finnish teams FC Futura and Ilves-Kissat  (Read 2283 times)
holydarkness
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June 26, 2024, 04:09:42 PM
 #201

[...]

Two points that can be inferred from your teaching so far, one, minor league and the potential fixing within it didn't get investigated by the authorities of the league, and two, due to above, the bookmakers are the one who made the final call.

Wow, people should change their mind, apparently you go to a length to paint fairlay as a bad actor here, because not only fairlay is not a bookmakers, the other actual bookmakers actually go with a decision to stick with the official result instead of voiding it. And from fairlay's own statement, the market maker on that bet wouldn't need to be compensated if the arbitrator decides to say so.

[...]
The market maker / counterparty in this bet  has actually hedged the bet we learnt, so he does not have to be compensated if arbitrator decides so. It would also be acceptable for us and the market maker, if we donated the 799mBTC to charity.  Just giving it back to the alleged criminal involved in match-fixing would be the wrong thing to do.[...]

Thus, if you try to teach us that Fairlay is allowed to make their own call for this match...

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SeymourT
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June 26, 2024, 06:30:53 PM
 #202

[...]

Two points that can be inferred from your teaching so far, one, minor league and the potential fixing within it didn't get investigated by the authorities of the league, and two, due to above, the bookmakers are the one who made the final call.

Wow, people should change their mind, apparently you go to a length to paint fairlay as a bad actor here, because not only fairlay is not a bookmakers, the other actual bookmakers actually go with a decision to stick with the official result instead of voiding it. And from fairlay's own statement, the market maker on that bet wouldn't need to be compensated if the arbitrator decides to say so.

[...]
The market maker / counterparty in this bet  has actually hedged the bet we learnt, so he does not have to be compensated if arbitrator decides so. It would also be acceptable for us and the market maker, if we donated the 799mBTC to charity.  Just giving it back to the alleged criminal involved in match-fixing would be the wrong thing to do.[...]

Thus, if you try to teach us that Fairlay is allowed to make their own call for this match...

You don't understand it because you have tunnel vision. If Fairlay allows this when Pinnacle matches bets Pinnacle will be taking the loss. Every cheater out there will come out paying off ping pong players and tennis players. Fairlay has to take a stand on cheaters or Pinny will never match bets. Fairlay wants to stop this gang from cheating.
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June 26, 2024, 11:22:44 PM
 #203

so it is pinacle who matches bets there Wink

overall, if anybody wants to win with this fairlay, we can say that he has a tunnel vision. If he wins money from them, pinacle will not match bets, they dont like to loose.

So bettors, just loose at fairlay and pinacle will continue matching bets there.

SIMPLE AS THAT
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June 27, 2024, 12:58:02 AM
Last edit: June 27, 2024, 01:33:50 AM by Rating Place
 #204

Against my better judgement, I’ll jump back in the fray.

I would throw out the argument that it wasn’t proven. Match fixing is never proven at the time the money is confiscated. The proof may come much later.

I would have to agree that this bet coming from a market maker other than Pinny is also irrelevant agreeing that Fairlay is sending a message. A decision can’t be made trying to determine the market maker as it may be Pinny in a future case, it’s setting a precedent. The rules state that there’s a penalty for match fixing.

I would hate to be the arbitrator, but in this case, as well as every other case where money has been confiscated, it’s based on the bets made and pattern.

As I’ve said many times, I don’t know what happened but the arbitrator’s decision should be based on the bets, nothing else and done in the same manner as other match fixing cases. All the questions on who, what and when come long after the decision to pay or not.

Sportsradar has some great information on match fixing. AI is playing a big role.

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June 27, 2024, 03:18:54 PM
 #205

[...]

Two points that can be inferred from your teaching so far, one, minor league and the potential fixing within it didn't get investigated by the authorities of the league, and two, due to above, the bookmakers are the one who made the final call.

Wow, people should change their mind, apparently you go to a length to paint fairlay as a bad actor here, because not only fairlay is not a bookmakers, the other actual bookmakers actually go with a decision to stick with the official result instead of voiding it. And from fairlay's own statement, the market maker on that bet wouldn't need to be compensated if the arbitrator decides to say so.

[...]
The market maker / counterparty in this bet  has actually hedged the bet we learnt, so he does not have to be compensated if arbitrator decides so. It would also be acceptable for us and the market maker, if we donated the 799mBTC to charity.  Just giving it back to the alleged criminal involved in match-fixing would be the wrong thing to do.[...]

Thus, if you try to teach us that Fairlay is allowed to make their own call for this match...

You don't understand it because you have tunnel vision. If Fairlay allows this when Pinnacle matches bets Pinnacle will be taking the loss. Every cheater out there will come out paying off ping pong players and tennis players. Fairlay has to take a stand on cheaters or Pinny will never match bets. Fairlay wants to stop this gang from cheating.

So the solution will be, amongst many other possible bets, to take one with [subjectively] big win, where the market maker doesn't need to be compensated with whatever the arbitrator decide, then take an independent arbitrator who will pull investigation from only-god-knows-where-but-clearly-not-from-officials-of-the-league? Interesting. This should explains why they won't accept mediators who openly said they will rule to the player's favor.

You sure you're here to teach us about things we don't understand and that we wrongly assumed fairlay is the bad actor here?

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.. PLAY NOW ..
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June 27, 2024, 04:02:58 PM
 #206

[...]

Two points that can be inferred from your teaching so far, one, minor league and the potential fixing within it didn't get investigated by the authorities of the league, and two, due to above, the bookmakers are the one who made the final call.

Wow, people should change their mind, apparently you go to a length to paint fairlay as a bad actor here, because not only fairlay is not a bookmakers, the other actual bookmakers actually go with a decision to stick with the official result instead of voiding it. And from fairlay's own statement, the market maker on that bet wouldn't need to be compensated if the arbitrator decides to say so.

[...]
The market maker / counterparty in this bet  has actually hedged the bet we learnt, so he does not have to be compensated if arbitrator decides so. It would also be acceptable for us and the market maker, if we donated the 799mBTC to charity.  Just giving it back to the alleged criminal involved in match-fixing would be the wrong thing to do.[...]

Thus, if you try to teach us that Fairlay is allowed to make their own call for this match...

You don't understand it because you have tunnel vision. If Fairlay allows this when Pinnacle matches bets Pinnacle will be taking the loss. Every cheater out there will come out paying off ping pong players and tennis players. Fairlay has to take a stand on cheaters or Pinny will never match bets. Fairlay wants to stop this gang from cheating.

So the solution will be, amongst many other possible bets, to take one with [subjectively] big win, where the market maker doesn't need to be compensated with whatever the arbitrator decide, then take an independent arbitrator who will pull investigation from only-god-knows-where-but-clearly-not-from-officials-of-the-league? Interesting. This should explains why they won't accept mediators who openly said they will rule to the player's favor.

You sure you're here to teach us about things we don't understand and that we wrongly assumed fairlay is the bad actor here?
Not directed towards me but I’ll answer this since I did recommend you. I know it was a misunderstanding as I didn’t explain it well, but Fairlay was looking to hold arbitration off the forum by one person with input from all on forum and you didn’t accept under those conditions. Ef declined to arbitrate. There is now arbitration being down off forum according to Fairlay’s post. People are holding Fairlay to a standard impossible to meet since outside investigation, if even done, will be done at a later time.

Let’s ignore the Fairlay is an exchange, it works more like a book or seeded exchange. The question is how would you grade based on wagers made considering amounts, time of bets as well as these wagers being very high for a small market. Fairlay can only be judged on accessible information. Fairlay’s actions on the forum do not determine grading.

Hopefully I’ll refrain from further comments.

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June 27, 2024, 04:43:47 PM
 #207

Not directed towards me but I’ll answer this since I did recommend you. I know it was a misunderstanding as I didn’t explain it well, but Fairlay was looking to hold arbitration off the forum by one person with input from all on forum and you didn’t accept under those conditions. Ef declined to arbitrate. There is now arbitration being down off forum according to Fairlay’s post. People are holding Fairlay to a standard impossible to meet since outside investigation, if even done, will be done at a later time.

Let’s ignore the Fairlay is an exchange, it works more like a book or seeded exchange. The question is how would you grade based on wagers made considering amounts, time of bets as well as these wagers being very high for a small market. Fairlay can only be judged on accessible information. Fairlay’s actions on the forum do not determine grading.

Hopefully I’ll refrain from further comments.


Still doesn't explain why Fairlay choose this one [with all of the "perks" I mentioned above] instead of other bets for their "teaching opportunity".

To lay it out in the open and being transparent, as previously said, that I have some questions and opinions that I think will add momentum to the pendulum, suppose this case goes further and fairlay did not sabotage their own "resolution attempt" by unilaterally choosing a mystery detective and goes on with having the public to give their opinion [and follows what the majority of the community suggested], I'll actually point out to newfish1 that it's there on the ToS, he was bound by those clauses he agreed upon signing up.

Many other cases I see to a resolution ended with the ToS playing a big role that binds the cheater and nullifies their attempt, or the grumpy loser from wreaking havoc to a casino, it won't be fair if we close our eyes to that very same aspect for this case.

There is a reason I deliberately made an archive of their ToS before asking them to point us out to the clause that they use as the basis of their decision; to see whether they'll play dirty by ninja-updating their ToS, but consulting to the archived version told me that those clauses are there before, newfish1 agreed to it upon sign up.

Of which, almost simultaneously, I also asked newfish1 to begin defending himself by laying it out in the open his strategy, the one that he said will make it very clear that he didn't cheat. I'd like to know whether the point he provided will have enough weight to tip the scale [the one that previously moved toward fairlay] back to his direction.

So yeah, I can understand the part where they want to be strict, those entire pingpong scenario. But, thanks to Seymour's post that teach us to see from different perspective and weight in things that we seemingly [at least to me] missed, it'll be very naive if we didn't consider a possibility that Fairlay has another agenda on this case.

If they simply want to take action against fixed-bettors, why this one? The one where other bookmakers ruled as valid, the one which points I've mentioned above? They can go headache-free by having Jontay Porter's case. Or other case from major league where investigation from officials are more likely.

Feel free to refrain from answering this, as I actually think SeymourT will be better fitted to explain. After all, it's his teaching moment that "open my eyes". So, Seymour, the room is yours.

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June 27, 2024, 06:51:57 PM
 #208

All defenders of Fairlay - why do you keep ignoring one question that is of huge significance?

Why does Fairlay offer a 1BTC pool of bets on over/under games in the Finnish amateur leagues?
Nobody does that, you can bet 20$ on it on bwin or bet365.

If you take the bet, pay out. It's really that simple.

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June 28, 2024, 02:58:55 PM
 #209

No one can prove that match is fixed except the official league administration. All of us can have only their own opinion. And the casino decided that it was fixed match. I don`t think that it is fair decision - it is their own opinion too.
At least the casino must return the bet to gambler, but it would be better to pay his prize.
PS. I never heard about casino, who return lost bets in the fixed matches.

How does an official ruling on match fixing make any difference in the payout? There are three suspicious matches every day and the bookmaker can't withhold money for a year on three matches every day waiting for some type of league administration to rule. The investigations may not even start for a month and most don't start. We have to stay in the real world instead of making stuff up on how it should be done. The bookmaker makes the decision since no one has any idea if an investigation will be started. The bookmakers marked the match as suspicious even the ones that paid.
I said that i think that casino must at least return the bet. No one has proves that it is fixed match. A part of casino paid. And, as i said, casino don`t return lost bets, so they has enough money from such matches. I don`t see here a problem to return money for casino.

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