Is Saint-loup cheating LiveCasino.io signature campaign? What do you think?

[hosemary]

In the past few days, I have noticed Saint-loup's strange posting behavior and in this topic, I would like to bring your attention to that.

In LiveCasino.io signature campaign, each week ends on Sunday, at 7 PM (GMT).
Saint-loup reserves posts during the week with some short and low-value contents and edit them just before the campaign manager (Trofo) starts to check the posts.


Here are a few examples.

1. msg65335423:
Saint-loup made the post on May 1 and you can see the unedited version of the post on ninjastic.space.
All he wrote was "Yes but it's improving". I captured the first page of Saint-loup's post history on May 4 at around 01:00 PM on Wayback Machine and as you can see the content was still the same. Saint-loup edited the post on Sunday, May 4 at 06:58 PM (three days after the creation time and only two minutes before the campaign cut-off time) to make it longer, so that it will be accepted by the manager.


2. msg65335601:
This post was also made on May 1 and as you can see on ninjastic.space, all Saint-loup wrote first was "yes banktoll management strategies". The post was edited Sunday, May 4 at 7:21 PM.


3. msg65332150:
This post was also made on April 30 and as you can see on ninjastic.space, all Saint-loup wrote was "Gambling is just trying his luck". The post was edited on Sunday, May 4 at 6:12 PM.


4. msg65342941:
This post was made on May 3 and as you can see on ninjastic.space, all Saint-loup wrote first was "It could go above 100k IMO". The post was edited on Sunday, May 4 at 6:30 PM.


You can find many other examples, if you check Saint-loup's post history.

[yahoo62278]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great. Is he cheating? Technically no, but other managers may not feel the same way. Depends on the rules for the most part.

[hosemary]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great.

I don't agree with this. Posts can be edited for good reasons.
Sometimes, I edit my posts to correct typos or grammatical errors. Sometimes, I edit my posts to add some information that were not available when I created the post.

What Saint-loup is doing is completely different. He posts a few words just to have a reserved post and edits it to make the post longer after days. That's probably done to spread the posts throughout the week and not be accused of burst-posting.

[MotoLM]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great. Is he cheating? Technically no, but other managers may not feel the same way. Depends on the rules for the most part.

You have one bold rule in your campaign and I have the same rule at the very first of my campaigns. We don't tolerate post bursting. It usually brings no good output. Besides, I consider post bursting as less effective in terms of impression count. That's something else.

Well, Saint loup is post bursting here but beating the manager. This is something a manager can barely notice, the chance of noticing this is very close to zero. Isn't it cheating? Post bursting isn't allowed but they are doing exactly that. I checked last 7/8 post and they were edited within a little more than half an hour. Would you count that valid post? I didn't check more, it's possible that he has edited many more posts in the same day and in the same hour.

I'll put a neutral tag so I don't have to accept him in any of my campaigns.

[Charles-Tim]

What Saint-loup is doing is completely different. He posts a few words just to have a reserved post and edits it to make the post longer after days. That's probably done to spread the posts throughout the week and not be accused of burst-posting.

This is completely not making any sense at all. I mean what Saint-loup is doing. If a post is edited for typo correction, that is different, but he is editing the post at the late hours to make the posts count for its signature campaign. This kind of posting should be frawn upon not just by the campaign manager but also by the forum moderators, even if not frown upon by the campaign manager. It would be good if a moderator can give him warning and if he continues, temporary ban would be appropriate.

[sheenshane]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great.

I don't agree with this. Posts can be edited for good reasons.
Sometimes, I edit my posts to correct typos or grammatical errors. Sometimes, I edit my posts to add some information that were not available when I created the post.

I tend to agree with this, but within a minute after you post.  I usually did it when I forgot to hit the "preview" button.
Editing after 3 days and having an interval of most likely 10 minutes, yes, IMO, it falls under the category of cheating or else spamming (post bursting).

Well, so far, I haven't seen this stated on the signature campaign rules.  So let's wait for the LiveCasino signature campaign manager about this issue.

[TryNinja]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great. Is he cheating? Technically no, but other managers may not feel the same way. Depends on the rules for the most part.

I think this is too overkill. I edit a lot of my posts due to typos and because sometimes I think about something else and add it to the post (an extra phrase or two).

Probably a better idea to check the original post instead (i.e using ninjastic.space) and not allow posts that were clearly made to bypass the weekly cut time (and if they are < 200 characters, low quality etc).

[SamReomo]

It's first time I'm hearing something like that. I know some members of the forum do make empty posts or 1 line posts and edit those posts later to be on top of the page to get merits. However, its first time where someone make short 1 line posts and then edit those post when he/she has proper time. Ethically it's cheating but technically he's making long posts which campaign requires. However, most campaigns want to get attention from user's posts that are engaging and with short 1 line posts aren't engaging and thus others might not mention such posts ever.

[Trofo]

In the past few days, I have noticed Saint-loup's strange posting behavior and in this topic, I would like to bring your attention to that.

Thanks for catching this up and bringing to our attention. Currently on mobile and going to work so I will properly address it in the afternoon.

This is something that we don't have exactly covered by the rules but burst posting sort of covers it. It is done in a way that is very difficult for us to catch since we are obviously going through posts on deadline and I would bet he isn't doing it in the threads which we frequent often, like paid pools and competitions. This also explains why he doesn't write in these threads a lot which was always a bit curious to me since they provide best place for sports discussion whitout spam and he is part of all of them.

[Free Market Capitalist]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great.

To not paid edited posts would only be done by lazy managers IMO. Every week I edit my posts, usually to correct mistakes or clarify something, once I read them after they are published (and I check them before publishing), which is far from what Saint-loup does. So a responsible manager if he doesn't want to pay for edited posts should check if they are shitpost-like IMO, like the case mentioned above, or responsible post improvements.

I will not go deeper into this as I see that the rest of the opinions expressed are similar to mine.

[LoyceV]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great.

That way, people in your campaigns will no longer correct typos when they find them. Judging by the responses above, I'm not the only one doing this. Shitposters on the other hand would be totally fine with this rule, they don't care about improving their posts after making them.

Is he cheating?

I'd say it's cheating the campaign if his posts don't qualify for several days. By the time he edits his posts, the topic is a few pages longer already and nobody is going to read them. It's not much more than posting "Reserved" and later editing it.
It's also spam for the forum, but the Speculation and Gambling boards are filled with spam, so I don't think anyone reported it. Modlog doesn't show any deleted posts.

I didn't check more, it's possible that he has edited many more posts in the same day and in the same hour.

He had a lot of time on May 4

[AB de Royse777]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great. Is he cheating? Technically no, but other managers may not feel the same way. Depends on the rules for the most part.

I will not appreciate any of my campaign participants doing it. It feels like the user is playing with manager's rules. You follow the rule but don't play with it.

[cryptofrka]

Wow, this is some next level bullshit. Every time when I feel we've covered it all, you get something like this - and by a member that is here long enough to know he should do better.

He will obviously be removed from the campaign, I will leave a neutral tag as well. We will make the official announcement in the Livecasino thread soon.

Such behavior is unacceptable, but it will not lead to stricter rules to the other participants of the campaign (via not accepting edited posts etc).
We are very happy with the crew we connected with the Livecasino brand and we feel that everybody should express themselves freely, as long as it's not blatantly manipulating the rules of the campaign.

____________________________________

That being said, each one of us has a responsibility to show respect to clients who help us grow and make this forum a better place. Their contributions deserve appreciation and our best efforts, not abuse.

[Trofo]

Once again thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Actions were taken:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5401996.msg65348309#msg65348309

For me this is a clear case of not delivering on the work you are being paid for. In the moment most people see the post and signature it is nowhere near the quality we want for our brand.

We were also talking about appropriate trust tags for breach like this and while I belive this doesn't deserve red tag since it isn't outright scam, it definitely deserves neutral tag to warn people when dealing with Saint-loup in the future.

[cryptofrka]

Also putting this out here:

12. We encourage all users to report cheating and if the reports turn out to be correct, a bonus of 100$ will be paid to the person who provided indisputable evidence of cheating.

As per rules of our campaign, we'll be contacting hosemary today. Thanks, man.

[hosemary]

Thank you so much, cryptofrka and Trofo. I didn't really expect any reward for this cheating report.
I replied to your personal message and sent my BTC address.

Signature campaigns we have in bitcointalk are good opportunities to earn some money. People should be honest and such behaviour should not be tolerated. I am happy to be helpful to your campaign and thanks again for the reward.

[Wonder Work]

Once again thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Actions were taken:
.......

The fact that the mistakes were resolved in such a short time is certainly commendable. Anyway, thank you for taking such a good step in resolving the mistakes in such a short time. Am saying that these are not such a big issue as they are highlighted here, so it is necessary to pay attention to this issue carefully so that such mistakes do not happen in the future.

[Wiwo]

What Saint-loup is doing is completely different. He posts a few words just to have a reserved post and edits it to make the post longer after days. That's probably done to spread the posts throughout the week and not be accused of burst-posting.

This is completely not making any sense at all. I mean what Saint-loup is doing. If a post is edited for typo correction, that is different, but he is editing the post at the late hours to make the posts count for its signature campaign. This kind of posting should be frawn upon not just by the campaign manager but also by the forum moderators, even if not frown upon by the campaign manager. It would be good if a moderator can give him warning and if he continues, temporary ban would be appropriate.

I even see some fellows who involved in this shit posting habits making comments in the first page with the word's reserves, just to secure that first page and comments  position, and then come back after a Ling while to edit and fill up the comment just to.meet they campaign post requirements.

In my own opinion, this pour case of spam since the first comment is auterly out of place just with the aims of reserving that particular space, if it a typo error, that being edited that is fine, but in this regards, I think it's quite out of place.

[Majestic-milf]

This type of activity could lead to managers not allowing edited posts to count which IMO I think would be great. Is he cheating? Technically no, but other managers may not feel the same way. Depends on the rules for the most part.

My question is why make such posts and then edit them later on, precisely towards cut off time? If it was done once, I think it would be counted as a mistake, but more than once? That's a pattern and for some reason, he was thinking he'd get away with it as he has been doing.
 There was a user, I think Can't say is the name, who does this little worded posts after the creation of a thread and then he'd go later on to edit, the user gave his reason which was quite reasonable so I think it will be nice if Saint-loup also came here and explained too.

[Woodie]

Best punishment would have been to suspend a week's pay , just to let him and all other campaign members know what the consequences are for this..and probably some comments on the spreadsheet to alert everyone that you have an eagles eye on them.

Secondly, it would be interesting to see the pattern of the quota's... If it's always say 30 posts as required by sig, doesn't show natural contribution towards the forum as I know some managers don't like members that hover just around the maximum allowed post numbers.

Now with this, hope his not tainted for this.

My question is why make such posts and then edit them later on, precisely towards cut off time?

Don't take my word for it, maybe a working person that makes those posts during work hour's and only gets back to them when they have time to themselves (in an effort to avoid post bursting )