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Question: How long before Bitcoinica takes a permanent dirt nap?
Never: It's the greatest thing since sliced bread, tastes great and less filling with no bitter aftertaste.
By the end of the first week of February 2012.
By the end of the first week of April 2012.
By the end of the first week of July 2012.
Not long after the Yakuza has finally sold all their bitcoins.

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Author Topic: Bitcoinica: When does it implode?  (Read 6396 times)
714
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January 02, 2012, 08:25:36 AM
 #1

Given recent events, what do you think lies in store for this brave if perhaps foolhardy effort?

"Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were."
 - Edward50
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RaggedMonk
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January 02, 2012, 10:52:44 AM
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Why would it implode?  Why are you spreading FUD?  Did you get short squeezed?
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January 02, 2012, 10:56:04 AM
 #3

do i hear a n00b crying?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
copumpkin
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January 02, 2012, 11:31:26 AM
 #4

Given recent events, what do you think lies in store for this brave if perhaps foolhardy effort?


You mean yours? I love how unbiased your poll options are. In other news, have you stopped beating your wife?
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January 02, 2012, 12:07:36 PM
 #5

Never?

Why it should implode? Especially now that it is having huge success?

The fact that you cannot long what you want on them doesn't means they are "broken". It's like saying your internet connection is broken because you are limited in speed and you cannot download faster. Or the hard disk is broken because it only allow you to put 2TB of data on them (it's a 2TB one of course)
714
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January 02, 2012, 12:15:30 PM
 #6

do i hear a n00b crying?

LOL, aren't you just precious? Only small-brained teenage dipshits use the term noob, much less spell it n00b. I suppose I should add a poll choice just for the mentally 12 and under and set. That would be 31337, wouldn't it kiddies?

"Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were."
 - Edward50
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January 02, 2012, 12:16:37 PM
 #7

umad?
kokjo
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January 02, 2012, 12:20:55 PM
 #8

do i hear a n00b crying?

LOL, aren't you just precious? Only small-brained teenage dipshits use the term noob, much less spell it n00b. I suppose I should add a poll choice just for the mentally 12 and under and set. That would be 31337, wouldn't it kiddies?

he is crying!

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
714
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January 02, 2012, 12:35:57 PM
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do i hear a n00b crying?

LOL, aren't you just precious? Only small-brained teenage dipshits use the term noob, much less spell it n00b. I suppose I should add a poll choice just for the mentally 12 and under and set. That would be 31337, wouldn't it kiddies?

he is crying!

Sigmund Freud could cite you for providing such a clear example on your part of what he termed "projection". Are you a n00b, duhboy, or just born yesterday?


"Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were."
 - Edward50
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January 02, 2012, 12:47:07 PM
 #10

do i hear a n00b crying?

LOL, aren't you just precious? Only small-brained teenage dipshits use the term noob, much less spell it n00b. I suppose I should add a poll choice just for the mentally 12 and under and set. That would be 31337, wouldn't it kiddies?

he is crying!

Sigmund Freud could cite you for providing such a clear example on your part of what he termed "projection". Are you a n00b, duhboy, or just born yesterday?


how much did you lose? it must be alot cause you are crying alot!

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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January 02, 2012, 12:58:13 PM
 #11

Somebody got liquidated.  Don't forget to take leverage into account when making your decisions, more leverage isn't always better. 

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714
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January 02, 2012, 01:00:00 PM
 #12

Never?

Why it should implode? Especially now that it is having huge success?

The fact that you cannot long what you want on them doesn't means they are "broken". It's like saying your internet connection is broken because you are limited in speed and you cannot download faster. Or the hard disk is broken because it only allow you to put 2TB of data on them (it's a 2TB one of course)

You obviously speak from a rich set of metaphors built from a broad life experience. I am awed by your attempt at reasoning. Awed.

Never mind that such an act by a licensed broker-dealer in the U.S. or U.K. could result in shutdown by the relevant regulatory agency. Of course, from the viewpoint of an investor in Bitcoinica it could certainly be construed as a technical act of bankruptcy, which would give them some out.

I don't know what the equivalent legal requirements would be in Singapore, would the operators of Bitcoinica be caned if they couldn't pay off the right officials?

"Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were."
 - Edward50
zhoutong
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January 02, 2012, 01:03:05 PM
 #13

Never?

Why it should implode? Especially now that it is having huge success?

The fact that you cannot long what you want on them doesn't means they are "broken". It's like saying your internet connection is broken because you are limited in speed and you cannot download faster. Or the hard disk is broken because it only allow you to put 2TB of data on them (it's a 2TB one of course)

You obviously speak from a rich set of metaphors built from a broad life experience. I am awed by your attempt at reasoning. Awed.

Never mind that such an act by a licensed broker-dealer in the U.S. or U.K. could result in shutdown by the relevant regulatory agency. Of course, from the viewpoint of an investor in Bitcoinica it could certainly be construed as a technical act of bankruptcy, which would give them some out.

I don't know what the equivalent legal requirements would be in Singapore, would the operators of Bitcoinica be caned if they couldn't pay off the right officials?


We don't have a fully developed money market in the Bitcoin world, so technically we're not equivalent to a brokerage in the real world. We're brokerage-like.

Also, being shut down is not equal to bankruptcy, at all. We are still making profits everyday and we are more solvent than ever.

The red flag is a promised thing at the very beginning.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
zhoutong
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January 02, 2012, 01:09:30 PM
 #14

Here's my question for Bitcoinica


Hypothetical: the majority (let's say 90%) of bitcoinica users are long in the market (buying) and are leveraged close to the max (let's say 4 to 1).

From where do the currency funds come to fill those leveraged orders?

Same hypothetical question for large HEAVILY LEVERAGED sell orders that come from the majority of bitcoinica members?

Could you clarify that you do indeed have deep pockets with lots of money and bitcoins to fund these scenarios?
If you don't, then what mechanisms are in place so the market can't leverage past the point of no more funds?

If there are no mechanism and limited funds then the only other option would be for a fractional reserve exchange,
in that case it would be an ethical choice to clarify it to your users.

What does this mean for bitcoinica's users if there are no mechanisms and limited funds?
It means that at some point the leveraged buys or sells do no influence the market the same as a 1:1 buy or sell.
Leveraged buys and sells would merely be "placing your bets" on what way the market will go without really participating.

I would really appreciate if you could address all this.

We can be a half bucket shop and half brokerage, but obviously that's not the right way.

Either way will result in criticisms, but I did the best I can do, and the right thing.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
714
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January 02, 2012, 01:14:23 PM
 #15

Somebody got liquidated.  Don't forget to take leverage into account when making your decisions, more leverage isn't always better. 

Sure, more than once. I was surprised at how remarkably cheap it was to find out just how frail and poorly thought out the operation is, I've spent more on lunch at places where tipping isn't allowed. They are just so cute when they act like big boys, aren't they? Such grown-up little men, all swagger and affectation.

Seriously, I do give them credit for trying to do something, albeit not very well. They certainly wouldn't be the first bucket shop to go under.

"Bitcoins are for the most part as useless as they ever were."
 - Edward50
anu
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January 02, 2012, 01:16:53 PM
 #16


I don't know what the equivalent legal requirements would be in Singapore, would the operators of Bitcoinica be caned if they couldn't pay off the right officials?


Take your pick:

Zero Reserve - A distributed Bitcoin Exchange

Install - Getting Started - BitcoinTalk Thread - Github Source
Shashi Yakuza
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January 02, 2012, 06:32:27 PM
 #17

Here's my question for Bitcoinica


Hypothetical: the majority (let's say 90%) of bitcoinica users are long in the market (buying) and are leveraged close to the max (let's say 4 to 1).

From where do the currency funds come to fill those leveraged orders?

Same hypothetical question for large HEAVILY LEVERAGED sell orders that come from the majority of bitcoinica members?

Could you clarify that you do indeed have deep pockets with lots of money and bitcoins to fund these scenarios?
If you don't, then what mechanisms are in place so the market can't leverage past the point of no more funds?

If there are no mechanism and limited funds then the only other option would be for a fractional reserve exchange,
in that case it would be an ethical choice to clarify it to your users.

What does this mean for bitcoinica's users if there are no mechanisms and limited funds?
It means that at some point the leveraged buys or sells do no influence the market the same as a 1:1 buy or sell.
Leveraged buys and sells would merely be "placing your bets" on what way the market will go without really participating.

I would really appreciate if you could address all this.

We can be a half bucket shop and half brokerage, but obviously that's not the right way.

Either way will result in criticisms, but I did the best I can do, and the right thing.

Why did you repost this exchange without actually responding to the questions? Everyone always claims to do their best and to have done the "right thing". Claiming best effort doesn't establish the adequacy of effort in the eyes of others, and whatever you may have meant by the "right thing" remains completely undefined. For example, not getting your nuts cut off as a warning from a loan shark could be very right for you, but the outcome one way or the other might be of little interest to anyone else.

Are you running any of this by your lawyer before you publish it? You might at least get some guidance in avoiding inadvertently digging your operation even deeper into a credibility hole than it already is.
Matthew N. Wright
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January 02, 2012, 06:57:12 PM
 #18

Here's my question for Bitcoinica


Hypothetical: the majority (let's say 90%) of bitcoinica users are long in the market (buying) and are leveraged close to the max (let's say 4 to 1).

From where do the currency funds come to fill those leveraged orders?

Same hypothetical question for large HEAVILY LEVERAGED sell orders that come from the majority of bitcoinica members?

Could you clarify that you do indeed have deep pockets with lots of money and bitcoins to fund these scenarios?
If you don't, then what mechanisms are in place so the market can't leverage past the point of no more funds?

If there are no mechanism and limited funds then the only other option would be for a fractional reserve exchange,
in that case it would be an ethical choice to clarify it to your users.

What does this mean for bitcoinica's users if there are no mechanisms and limited funds?
It means that at some point the leveraged buys or sells do no influence the market the same as a 1:1 buy or sell.
Leveraged buys and sells would merely be "placing your bets" on what way the market will go without really participating.

I would really appreciate if you could address all this.

We can be a half bucket shop and half brokerage, but obviously that's not the right way.

Either way will result in criticisms, but I did the best I can do, and the right thing.

Why did you repost this exchange without actually responding to the questions? Everyone always claims to do their best and to have done the "right thing". Claiming best effort doesn't establish the adequacy of effort in the eyes of others, and whatever you may have meant by the "right thing" remains completely undefined. For example, not getting your nuts cut off as a warning from a loan shark could be very right for you, but the outcome one way or the other might be of little interest to anyone else.

Are you running any of this by your lawyer before you publish it? You might at least get some guidance in avoiding inadvertently digging your operation even deeper into a credibility hole than it already is.


You must be new here.

2112
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January 02, 2012, 06:59:38 PM
 #19

For example, not getting your nuts cut off as a warning from a loan shark could be very right for you, but the outcome one way or the other might be of little interest to anyone else.
Zhoutong is not afraid of loan sharks, Zhoutong IS a loan shark and has a nut collection to prove it.  Grin

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
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January 02, 2012, 07:15:24 PM
 #20

do i hear a n00b crying?

LOL, aren't you just precious? Only small-brained teenage dipshits use the term noob, much less spell it n00b. I suppose I should add a poll choice just for the mentally 12 and under and set. That would be 31337, wouldn't it kiddies?


its 1337, you n00b

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