Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher

[Wilikon]

...
Sean Shealy, an organizer of the annual Burning Man festival in Nevada, said the “Bundyfest” event will start Sept. 5 and feature more than 250 bands, Raw Story first reported.

The event appears to blatantly mock the defiant rancher, who has engaged in a long-term battle with the BLM over unpaid federal grazing fees.
“For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada,” reads the Bundyfest Facebook page. “But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!”
Others have called Mr. Bundy everything from a scofflaw to a deadbeat, saying he lost his battle in court and needs to pay his bill or get out.
...

LOL!

Actually, the native Americans can make a very credible argument that their forefathers were doing drugs in the desert about 10,000 years before Clivan's Mormon gods even flew out of their volcanic mountain or whatever their weird-ass belief happens to be.

Insofar as dynastic privilege goes, the Burning Man folk are probably more close spiritually to the 'rightful owners' of that wasteland than anyone.  And from what I understand they take an active interest both in paying for their use of the public resource and leaving it in pristine condition when they split which is no small task I'm sure.

So then in the case of the Native Americans, would the BLM rules be applied to them?

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[tvbcof]

So then in the case of the Native Americans, would the BLM rules be applied to them?

Ya, but it doesn't matter because we 'patriots' killed most of them and genetically manipulated almost all of what remained of the population.  Problem solved.

[Wilikon]

So then in the case of the Native Americans, would the BLM rules be applied to them?

Ya, but it doesn't matter because we 'patriots' killed most of them and genetically manipulated almost all of what remained of the population.  Problem solved.

Ok... So the BLM rules only apply to white people of European descents? Got it 

[tvbcof]

So then in the case of the Native Americans, would the BLM rules be applied to them?

Ya, but it doesn't matter because we 'patriots' killed most of them and genetically manipulated almost all of what remained of the population.  Problem solved.

Ok... So the BLM rules only apply to white people of European descents? Got it 

Lots of rules are selectively applied (which is why Jon Corzine romes free on the economic plane) and there remains a demonstrable racial component to enforcement of said.  This is why I believe philosophically that although the U.S. is making laudable progress on the problem of racial discrimination, the problem still exists and there is work to be done.

BTW, TYT made a pretty good point the other day.  Let's say a bunch of black folk in Compton or Hispanics in East LA showed up with guns and demanded that one of theirs shouldn't have to pay some fee that everyone else pays.  Do you suppose that the 'patriots' are going to roll into town guns blazing to support their cause or that Fox News is going to rally to their cause?  I don't, which is why I have significant dis-trust in the motivations of these 'oath keeper' loons who take every opportunity to claim that their driving force is purely philosophical.  I didn't see an outpouring of 'security help' for the Occupy crowd who were distinctly (if ambiguously) taking a stand against aspects of central government malfeasance, and who were opposed by a coalition of central government and private financial industry paramilitary muscle.

[bryant.coleman]

Ya, but it doesn't matter because we 'patriots' killed most of them and genetically manipulated almost all of what remained of the population.  Problem solved.

Anyway most of them live on their reservations, where not even desert bush grows. In Nevada there might be a maximum of 5,000 Indians, mostly Shoshone and Paiute. Dying race. 

[spazzdla]

The above two comments are indicative of how Americans don't know their own Constitution, and thus the Constitution is dead.

Speak for yourself. I have and want nothing to do with your silly-as-shit country, just an external observer from a civilised nation where we don't have 'militias' of armed thugs roaming the countryside threatening government agents. Hell, we pay for people's healthcare where I live too, and pass laws stopping corporations from fucking them. I don't think bryant is american either by the way.

Your constitution grants you the right to bear arms if you're part of a well-organised militia, but I don't think it gives you the right to form a militia to threaten the government and help a farmer evade taxes. 'Ancestral right' to a piece of land is a fucking ridiculous concept in any situation - you don't deserve something because some-one else worked for it, even if that person was your granddad. I don't think it's protected in your constitution either.

Also, I know it makes your panties fizzy, but there's no civil war coming, no matter how often infowars tells you otherwise. Most americans - even batshit gun-freaks - would prefer having to pay 15% income tax (or whatever the fuck you people whinge about) to a bloody civil war.

You sir are the pefect debt slave, so scared of any conflict you will give any right up for protection.  You have no idea the world you actually live in as most do not.

[Bit_Happy]

Rancher Cliven Bundy’s standoff with the Bureau of Land Management has prompted a national debate over whether the elderly Nevada cattleman is a patriotic freedom fighter or a lawless renegade.
Mr. Bundy owes more than $1 million in back grazing fees, but he contends that the federal government’s rules are increasingly rigged against Westerners who have long made their living off the public lands.

The debate stood in sharp relief this week as conservative commentator Pat Buchanan criticized the BLM for overreacting to an “unpaid bill” while a liberal activist announced that he’s planning to hold a 30-day, rules-free “Bundyfest” across from the ranch in Bunkerville, Nev.
“You don’t send the Seventh Cavalry to collect a bill, and that’s exactly what happened,” Mr. Buchanan told Sean Hannity on his radio show.
Sean Shealy, an organizer of the annual Burning Man festival in Nevada, said the “Bundyfest” event will start Sept. 5 and feature more than 250 bands, Raw Story first reported.

The event appears to blatantly mock the defiant rancher, who has engaged in a long-term battle with the BLM over unpaid federal grazing fees.
“For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada,” reads the Bundyfest Facebook page. “But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!”
Others have called Mr. Bundy everything from a scofflaw to a deadbeat, saying he lost his battle in court and needs to pay his bill or get out.

Meanwhile, Bundy supporters have accused federal agents of playing fast and loose with the rules, pointing to the BLM’s decision to shoot and kill six of the rancher’s cattle after rounding them up last week.
“I’d like to know what gives our federal government the right to poach cattle and murder livestock,” Todd Starnes wrote in a post on the Bundy Ranch Facebook page. “Last week Senator Harry Reid accused those who support Mr. Bundy of being domestic terrorists. I wonder what the senator calls a bunch of government agents waging jihad against a herd of cattle?”
Mr. Reid has called the hundreds of Bundy supporters who camped out at the ranch last week “domestic terrorists,” while Sen. Dean Heller, Nevada Republican, on Friday called for Senate hearings into the clash between federal agents and Bundy supporters.

“What Senator Reid may call domestic terrorists, I call patriots,” Mr. Heller said on KSNV-TV in Las Vegas.
BLM spokesman Jeff Krauss said in a statement Tuesday that the Bundy cattle were euthanized because they were either injured or dangerous. Federal agents rounded up about 400 cattle before returning them in response to safety concerns stemming from heated public protests at the ranch.
“The Bundy branded bull that was euthanized posed a significant threat to employees during the gather,” said Mr. Krauss in an email. “The Bundy branded cow ran into a fence panel injuring its spine and was euthanized. The report of two cattle euthanized referred only to the Bundy branded cattle.”

A Sunday post on the Bundy Ranch Facebook page said that “this is beyond cattle and it is overall about freedom.”

“This is one of many incidents where the corrupt and unjust government is taking away OUR freedom little by little,” said the Monday post. “The running to death of cattle and the shooting of cattle to allegedly save the tortoise is justified?”




http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/22/bundyfest-burning-man-organizer-plans-30-days-anar/

Bundyfest....LOL 
I probably will not be able to travel that far but it sounds Great.

[AnonyMint]

...
The BLM has no jurisdiction there. The citizens are standing up for their Constitutional rights.
...

Say it all you like, but the trouble you have is that only a tiny sliver foaming wankers interpret things that way.  Sad.

3 million "you take my gun from my cold, dead hand" are much more potent force than pussies like you.

If you had any god damned balls, you wouldn't give a fuck about your life and put it all on the line for the principles on which our forefathers shed their blood for every thing you have now, you ungrateful liberal piece-of-shit.

FWIW, I personally believe that it is generally better that states control most of the non privately owned land within their jurisdictions.

No it is better if local government controls it. And if you don't understand why, then you don't understand a god damn thing about fitness. Try clicking my blog on my signature and see if you can learn a little bit of math.

The Feds own to much of Utah as best I can tell.  A handful of kooks camped out at Bundy's place is not the way to change it though.

You think real men that defend fitness are kooks. You are brain-dead, kooky.

My state owns most of the land around me and I'm happy with that.

Because you don't know shit about fitness. You are ignorant of some basic mathematical concepts.

Unfortunately we have kooks on the other side of the equation who have had recent success in halting even reasonable use of the forests

You fucking insane environmentalists go fuck a tree. I haven't forgotten your asinine post upthread about respecting the need to obtain a timber cutting permit.

Local communities should compete on how to manage resources, then clearly the best management will win and then optimum fitness will spread like a wave.

and there is a real possibility that the state will give up and sell the forest to private industry (or worse, give it to the Feds.)

Oh the horrors of private property.

- Right-wingers have their Bundy ranch militia clowns.

Again you characterize scientists as right-wingers. That is a category error.

What can you do?

I am doing something very powerful, but I don't need to advertize it to you. You just stay there and waddle in your own feces.

If you don't allow me as a U.S. Citizen to have my local community, then I don't allow you to have yours. Thus it is Civil War and a breakup of the USA ahead. You either allow local fitness and diversity, or you need totalitarianism to force people to be the same.

You and I are obviously not of the same philosophy and we should not live in the same community. You liberal and centrist fucks go live in your own community and bankrupt yourselves. We will go live in our very prosperous communities and laugh at you.

[AnonyMint]

Right-wingers have their Bundy ranch militia clowns.

The real clown is the double douche Harry Reid and his idiot son, and not the poor people who were trying to guard their ancestral land from the goons of BLM. What you will do if your land is seized by the government?

For those of us who have some understanding of the U.S., the concept of special dynastic privilege is one of the things we threw in the trash from the get go.

Senator Reid didn't read the memo. The USA (and the world) is run by family dynasties that form a global oligarchy.

Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html

But the whole point is mute because Bundy is full of shit about how long his family has been at that location.  If his great-great-grandpappy was not so focused on nailing as many adolescent girls as possible or whatever Mormans did back in the day

So now we see your real reason for hating on Bundy. You don't respect his culture nor religious freedom.

I have no problem with polygamy. Who the fuck are you to tell another man how to manage his sexual affairs?

You are liberal control freak. Always jealous of what another person has, and think you can top-down plan a better world.

and more focused on actually buying land that he wanted his progeny to control then Cliven wouldn't have this problem.

Leasing is more efficient than purchasing in some cases.

I think he even said in one interview that he wishes he could buy the land.

His point is that any grazing fees should go to the local county government, to be used for the people that publicly own and use the land. He is for democracy.

Whereas, you are for fascism, totalitarianism, and "social equality" enforced nation-wide.

Additionally, by the dynastic privilege argument the whole fucking thing belongs to the Piutes or Shoshones or some such.

Then let them come try to take it from the ranchers. It has been clearly shown who won those battles and who will win them again.

The ranchers live there and defend their property and homes. You don't live there. The BLM doesn't live there. The Indians no longer live there.

I am part Cherokee native Indian, and I no longer live nor have a claim to the ancestral Cherokee land.

Looks like the guy bought himself a nice little excavator (Japanese of course) with the proceeds that he got complements of the welfare subsidy that he enjoyed at the expense of taxpayers like me.

Bundy is receiving welfare payments for his kids? Citation please?

If he is, I will wholeheartedly support calling him out on this.

From what I read, the BLM puts considerable resources into making a lot of the land under their control conducive to agricultural utilization in addition to a raft of other uses.  Shit costs money, and the grazing fees help defray those costs.

Oh fuck if you are going to argue that national top-down management of resources is more productive and more fit(ness), then I will just have to press the "ignore a mathematical idiot".

For my part, I pay a chunk of money every year for our local forest fire protection department (which is legally barred from fighting structure fires) and am glad to have their services

Nothing wrong with having local community policies, so that those who don't like them, can choose another locale they prefer. But one policy administered by one agency for the entire nation is not fitness and it is not competition between locales.

[tvbcof]

...
The BLM has no jurisdiction there. The citizens are standing up for their Constitutional rights.
...

Say it all you like, but the trouble you have is that only a tiny sliver foaming wankers interpret things that way.  Sad.

3 million "you take my gun from my cold, dead hand" are much more potent force than pussies like you.

If you had any god damned balls, you wouldn't give a fuck about your life and put it all on the line for the principles on which our forefathers shed their blood for every thing you have now, you ungrateful liberal piece-of-shit.

I'm a gun owner and don't plan on giving up that right without resistance.  I don't have any problem getting guns because I don't have dangerous psychological pathologies which threaten others and am not a criminal.  Every time I buy a gun I have to pass a background check.  It's an annoyance, but I don't want armed criminals and militia wanabe nutjobs creeping around my place.  Not that some reasonable background check solution is completely effective in solving this problem, and not that the system cannot be abused by centralized power structures, but on balance I accept it as a reasonable approach.

FWIW, I personally believe that it is generally better that states control most of the non privately owned land within their jurisdictions.

No it is better if local government controls it. And if you don't understand why, then you don't understand a god damn thing about fitness. Try clicking my blog on my signature and see if you can learn a little bit of math.

The Feds own to much of Utah as best I can tell.  A handful of kooks camped out at Bundy's place is not the way to change it though.

You think real men that defend fitness are kooks. You are brain-dead, kooky.

My state owns most of the land around me and I'm happy with that.

Because you don't know shit about fitness. You are ignorant of some basic mathematical concepts.

Not sure what that means (if anything) but most of the militia goobers I've seen are anything but 'fit'.  Physically or mentally.

Unfortunately we have kooks on the other side of the equation who have had recent success in halting even reasonable use of the forests

You fucking insane environmentalists go fuck a tree. I haven't forgotten your asinine post upthread about respecting the need to obtain a timber cutting permit.

Local communities should compete on how to manage resources, then clearly the best management will win and then optimum fitness will spread like a wave.

Generally I agree with the principle of political localization and autonomy.  There is a realistic limit to how much things can be localized since the resources available to a local government are limited.  There are also situations where problems and issues are geographically broad so localized political structures are inefficient (at best) to deal with them.  Certain ecological issues fit into this catagory for instance.

and there is a real possibility that the state will give up and sell the forest to private industry (or worse, give it to the Feds.)

Oh the horrors of private property.

Chances are you live in some asphalt jungle somewhere and are not really familiar with the kind of damage that wanton exploitation can do to an environment.  I own more than a mile of riverfront on an unusually clean river.  It is this way because the entire watershed is managed fairly carefully, and that is because the proceeds of extraction go to schools rather than into some investors pocket.

I was around in the 70's when industry (with the blessing of all levels of government) were spraying the same chemical constituents contained in agent orange all over the place.  The chemical companies were geared up for it's manufacture and when the order came down to quit spraying it on Vietnamese villagers, they needed another outlet for the stuff.  It kills alder trees which were at the time considered a weed.  Most likely the calculation was that there would be {x} millions of dollars extra to be had and {y} excess deaths and the cost was worth it.  The thing is that the excess deaths were localized and both my grandfather and the guy up the road died of bladder cancer.

Things are better now, and it certainly is not an artifact of giving private industry or absent landowners free reign to maximize their profits.  What it is is an artifact of reasonable people in the community (including some hard core conservatives like my uncle who was a scientist) making a reasonable case against a serious injustice.  That is the kind of action which works...consider it your civics lesson for the day.

- Right-wingers have their Bundy ranch militia clowns.

Again you characterize scientists as right-wingers. That is a category error.

What can you do?

I am doing something very powerful, but I don't need to advertize it to you. You just stay there and waddle in your own feces.

If you don't allow me as a U.S. Citizen to have my local community, then I don't allow you to have yours. Thus it is Civil War and a breakup of the USA ahead. You either allow local fitness and diversity, or you need totalitarianism to force people to be the same.

You and I are obviously not of the same philosophy and we should not live in the same community. You liberal and centrist fucks go live in your own community and bankrupt yourselves. We will go live in our very prosperous communities and laugh at you.

Frankly I think we (and the rest of the world) would be better off if the U.S. divided into about 5 separate nations.  One would be the Pacific NW...the others I don't care a lot about.  If you and your 'very powerful' thing you are doing brings that about, go for it.  The whacko militia types are going to be a tiny minority in any segmentation of the country and will be managed by reasonable people in whatever manner it takes.

[AnonyMint]

The above two comments are indicative of how Americans don't know their own Constitution, and thus the Constitution is dead.

Speak for yourself. I have and want nothing to do with your silly-as-shit country, just an external observer from a civilised nation where we don't have 'militias' of armed thugs roaming the countryside threatening government agents. Hell, we pay for people's healthcare where I live too, and pass laws stopping corporations from fucking them. I don't think bryant is american either by the way.

Your constitution grants you the right to bear arms if you're part of a well-organised militia, but I don't think it gives you the right to form a militia to threaten the government and help a farmer evade taxes. 'Ancestral right' to a piece of land is a fucking ridiculous concept in any situation - you don't deserve something because some-one else worked for it, even if that person was your granddad. I don't think it's protected in your constitution either.

And you Europeans will end up in your repeating megadeath Gulag again. You think it is different this time? Why?

You've fucked your economies and you have no ability to defend yourselves against Putin.

Some reading material for you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=574989.msg6279196#msg6279196
http://dollarcollapse.com/currency-war-2/europes-really-bad-2014-in-two-charts/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/27/europe-economic-crisis-worse-caritas-report
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-09/if-youre-waiting-economic-collapse-just-look-what-happening-europe
http://www.alamongordo.com/eu-on-the-brink-of-economic-collapse/

Also, I know it makes your panties fizzy, but there's no civil war coming, no matter how often infowars tells you otherwise. Most americans - even batshit gun-freaks - would prefer having to pay 15% income tax (or whatever the fuck you people whinge about) to a bloody civil war.

Want to bet all your net worth on that wrong prediction?

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/01/07/separatist-movements-are-also-alive-in-the-usa-goodbye-california/





http://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1u4y9v/what_the_usa_would_look_like_if_every/





http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/12/26/224-collapsing-wave-structure-point-to-breakup-of-usa/

There are two types of waves on the 224 Year Cycle – the Collapsing Wave and the Protracted Wave. It appears that the USA is in the Collapsing Wave formation meaning that the 224 year runs from the birth to the peak with the total duration running minimum 296 years with the optimum being 309.6 years meaning the society splits and does not remain intact. A Protracted Wave is a society view where the wave is measured peak to peak totaling 224 years. The second Protracted Wave formation is where governments come and go, but society survives and reforms remaining intact. In the Collapsing Wave structure where it is 224 year from birth to peak, the overall duration appears to be is 296-309 years. for the conclusion whereby society breaks apart and fragmentation emerges..In the case of Rome, 309 years from the assassination of Julius Caesar in 44BC is 265AD where Rome broke apart and the Gallic Empire emerged under Postumus (259-268AD).

This Collapsing Wave structure that the United States appears to be in means it is a one-time-wonder and that the United States will break-up and the there will be no more “united” union. This is becoming self-evidence in the polarization of politics with tremendous differences in culture on a regional basis. The Obamacare is just one aspect revealing the undercurrent whereby one segment of society believes it has a right to force their views upon another group.

So unfortunately, the USA does not appear to be destined to remain intact otherwise we would have seen and overall structured wave of 224 years. We seem to be in the Collapsing Wave with the 224 years was from birth to peak with an overall duration of 309.6 years at best. This appears to be like the Collapsing Wave in Imperial Rome itself whereas from the assassination of Julius Caesar in 44BC to the peak in the glory of Rome and population in the city took place under Marcus Aurelius that was 224 years later in 180AD. The decline that followed brought total chaos, sovereign debt crisis, massive government seizure of capital, fragmentation of the Empire, and in the end, Rome was no longer the Capitol and that became Constantinople followed by the split of East and West. We are much more akin to the this type of Collapsing Wave formation whereby society collapses and breaks apart. Now we have the Cycle of War turning in 2014 that appears to be focused within civil unrest at least initially.

[AnonyMint]

You and I are obviously not of the same philosophy and we should not live in the same community. You liberal and centrist fucks go live in your own community and bankrupt yourselves. We will go live in our very prosperous communities and laugh at you.

Nope. The "everyone will live in small societies fitting their philosophy" system is just libertarianism in a very poor disguise. A just system of government depends on the same laws being applied to everyone - eventually even national governments will be dissolved, as they should, in favour of a world government.

No-one should be able to opt out of society, especially not with violence as the Bundy thugs are trying to do. This is why allowing citizens to have guns is a stupid idea.

And this is why Europeans (my guess is you are from the Netherlands?) are our enemy. You fucks actually believe this big government lie, even though it has decimated your population numerous times throughout your history.

You guys don't seem to be capable of learning, thus you must destroy yourselves.

[AnonyMint]

The event appears to blatantly mock the defiant rancher, who has engaged in a long-term battle with the BLM over unpaid federal grazing fees.

“For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada,” reads the Bundyfest Facebook page. “But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!”

He missed the point. The public land belongs to and will be administered by Clark county. The local Sheriff should enforce the will of the local community (but he doesn't because he is likely bought off by the Feds).

Thus he has no right to go and impose on the public land of Clark county without the county's permission.

[practicaldreamer]

  Let's say a bunch of black folk in Compton or Hispanics in East LA showed up with guns and demanded that one of theirs shouldn't have to pay some fee that everyone else pays.  Do you suppose that the 'patriots' are going to roll into town guns blazing to support their cause or that Fox News is going to rally to their cause?  I don't, which is why I have significant dis-trust in the motivations of these 'oath keeper' loons who take every opportunity to claim that their driving force is purely philosophical.  I didn't see an outpouring of 'security help' for the Occupy crowd who were distinctly (if ambiguously) taking a stand against aspects of central government malfeasance, and who were opposed by a coalition of central government and private financial industry paramilitary muscle.

Just about says it all for me, and a point well made.

Us and them - withs and withouts.

Anonymint is one of "them" and is "with" - I am without. I live in a Mormon community and I can't get laid for love nor money - meanwhile my next door neighbour bangs a different wife every night of the week.

[AnonyMint]

  Let's say a bunch of black folk in Compton or Hispanics in East LA showed up with guns and demanded that one of theirs shouldn't have to pay some fee that everyone else pays.  Do you suppose that the 'patriots' are going to roll into town guns blazing to support their cause or that Fox News is going to rally to their cause?  I don't, which is why I have significant dis-trust in the motivations of these 'oath keeper' loons who take every opportunity to claim that their driving force is purely philosophical.  I didn't see an outpouring of 'security help' for the Occupy crowd who were distinctly (if ambiguously) taking a stand against aspects of central government malfeasance, and who were opposed by a coalition of central government and private financial industry paramilitary muscle.

Just about says it all for me, and a point well made.

Us and them - withs and withouts.

Anonymint is one of "them" and is "with" - I am without. I live in a Mormon community and I can't get laid for love nor money - meanwhile my next door neighbour bangs a different wife every night of the week.

Yup. Competition. It makes the world peaceful and prosperous. Whereas Communism turns the world into a black death. You Europeans still haven't learned to abandon Marx yet.

Hey banging a lot of women also carries with it a lot of responsibility to take care of many children and very difficult to keep multiple women happy. Many men would find it easier and more reasonable to marry one woman and to raise offspring with only her.

Again I will call Bundy out if he is relying on the State to support his offspring.

[practicaldreamer]

Yup. Competition.

Unfair competition - a loaded deck of cards from the cradle to the grave.

[AnonyMint]

Yup. Competition.

Unfair competition - a loaded deck of cards from the cradle to the grave.

In what way unfair?

Everyone has access these days to the internet. All the education is readily available at our fingertips. With a computer and programming skills, anyone can be rich if they are motivated.

[practicaldreamer]

Yup. Competition.

Unfair competition - a loaded deck of cards from the cradle to the grave.

In what way unfair?

....... anyone can be rich if they are motivated.

From the "freedom" thread - you have just made my point for me pretty effectively :-

       "But mostly how the word is used today, even on forums likes this, freedom becomes an ideologically driven bullshit concept that makes little sense. It comes to denote a means by which man transcends the chain of cause and effect/empiricism which dictates the workings of everything else in the known universe (quantum mechanics (possibly partially) aside ?) - and confers on him a God like status that gives him the ability to act outside of time and space and to be unaffected by them.
   I say the term is used ideologically because it becomes a means by which inequalities are legitimated - if you find yourself at the bottom of the heap its no-one elses fault but your own buddy   - don't you know that this is the land of the free/we live in a free country etc etc."

[tvbcof]

I have no problem with polygamy. Who the fuck are you to tell another man how to manage his sexual affairs?

You are liberal control freak. Always jealous of what another person has, and think you can top-down plan a better world.

Ah, I see how it is;  You are a degenerate fuck who resents society from calling you out on it.

I'd try to explain to you that children are actual humans who are prone to psychological damage when they are sexually molested, but I don't guess that you have the capacity to absorb that concept.  Carting some kid down to a church and branding a 'wife number {n}' stamp on her doesn't change the reality of the situation.  That 99.9% of people accept this (and probably 99% of Mormons by this time) should tell you something.  That it doesn't tell you something tells us a lot about you.

and more focused on actually buying land that he wanted his progeny to control then Cliven wouldn't have this problem.

Leasing is more efficient than purchasing in some cases.

Fine.  Don't bitch about it when the the owner decides not to renew the lease.  Or in this case that he actually wants the money owed to him.

I think he even said in one interview that he wishes he could buy the land.

Send Bundy someone who knows how to use Zillow then.  I saw shit-loads of dirt cheap land in Nevada a few years ago when I was looking around for some investment diversity.

[AnonyMint]

BTW, TYT made a pretty good point the other day.  Let's say a bunch of black folk in Compton or Hispanics in East LA showed up with guns and demanded that one of theirs shouldn't have to pay some fee that everyone else pays.

Feds don't charge fees to poor blacks, instead the Feds loads them up with free goodies at the expense of the taxpayer.

Do you suppose that the 'patriots' are going to roll into town guns blazing to support their cause or that Fox News is going to rally to their cause?

What cause? Those leeches don't work, thus don't have any private property to protect.

And this isn't a racist statement. Any hard working black ranchers with the same ethics as Bundy should be supported by the militias.

I don't, which is why I have significant dis-trust in the motivations of these 'oath keeper' loons who take every opportunity to claim that their driving force is purely philosophical.  I didn't see an outpouring of 'security help' for the Occupy crowd who were distinctly (if ambiguously) taking a stand against aspects of central government malfeasance, and who were opposed by a coalition of central government and private financial industry paramilitary muscle.

The Occupy Wallstreet crowd were socialists who wanted the government to take from the 1% and give them everything for free.

If you don't believe me, go review the videos of Peter Schiff debating on the street with them.