Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher

[scottsecret]

If I had access to the acreage your hero does and didn't have to pay taxes life would be an utter walk in the park and I'd live quite comfortably.

Thanks for proving all my points about jealously and ignorance. (Calling Adam Smith's seminal work the Wealth of Nations idiotic is really egregious dumb ego)

To all those who don't want to sink with the Titanic. The above is what you are up against. 75% of the people think that way.

Your only chance to survive is to opt-out. Make sure you locate the only solution for that.

So first you run your mouth off about the hardwork your hero societal mooching bum does.  I point out I am quite familiar with what he does.  IE I have a stake in a ranch. However I would love enough tax-free acreage to support 900 head.  I didn't prove anything but that you are a damn fool.  If you don't think land is a form of wealth because of some ancient text, then good for you.  The rest of the world understands reality though.  Ok, ignore button clicked.  Enjoy your lunacy.

[AnonyMint]

However I would love enough tax-free acreage to support 900 head.

So stop being a pussy and stand up and refuse to pay unjust taxes.

Have you forgotten your U.S. History what the Boston Tea Party was about.

Bundy refused to pay for "taxation without representation". He wants to pay his taxation to the local government, wherein he has representation.

And you want to fight against that and support taxation from Brussels (which is where this is leading if you don't draw a line in the sand as Bundy has done).

If you don't understand that the work and investments in the ranch are where all the wealth comes from, and you reject Adam Smith, then you are following Karl Marx.

[tvbcof]

I thought I'd watch a little youtube about this thing tonight.

I watched some of this one first.  It's long so I just watch parts of it, but enough to see that the government probably can just stand back and let these militia clowns rip one another to pieces.  It seems to be looney tunes clusterfuck clown central!  Who could have guessed?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HkSAewoESg

Next I went looking for someone else who I could look down on and feel superior to and ran across this guy...

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGJ8XFpSsQA

who, to my amazement, seems to really have his shit together.  Goddamn it!  I guess I'll have to keep searching.

[AnonyMint]

Bundy refused to pay for "taxation without representation". He wants to pay his taxation to the local government, wherein he has representation.

Yeah, because he has no representation whatsoever at the federal level. He should complain to his congressman about it...

Complaining accomplishes absolutely nothing. Ditto in Europe, see link below.

You are sliding into Fascism and I am laughing at you idiots who fight for slavery and against individual and local sovereignty (you will reap what you sow before 2020 in a horrific outcome):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365141.msg6496672#msg6496672

You want to fight against that and support taxation from Brussels (which is where this is leading if you don't draw a line in the sand as Bundy has done).

America is going to join the EU now? I speak as some-one who actually does pay taxes to Brussels, and the world hasn't ended here yet... I also have representation in the European Parliament by the way.

You don't have any representation:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/27/may-elections-in-europe-may-be-a-joke-the-invasion-of-euroskeptics-may-have-no-power/

If you don't understand that the work and investments in the ranch are where all the wealth comes from, and you reject Adam Smith, then you are following Karl Marx.

What on earth are you talking about? Adam Smith never argued that land has no value, and he would have been a fool if he had. Of course investments of capital and labour into land generate wealth, but you can't make those investments without access to the land in the first place.

I get tired of dealing with people of such low IQ.

The land is not responsible for the value creation. And responsibility is a key aspect of maximizing prosperity and minimizing the horrific outcomes of the power vacuum of collectivism (a.k.a. democracy). When responsibility is communal, the participants are no longer responsible, e.g. welfare and insurance.

This demand for access combined with limited supply obviously means that land has value, as Adam Smith knew well - an entire chapter of The Wealth of Nations ("Of the Rent of Land") is devoted to explaining the causes of differences in value of land based on their location and inherent resources.

First of all, Adam Smith didn't understand degrees-of-freedom and entropy. I wrote the following 4 years ago:

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Understand%20Everything%20Fundamentally.html#entropy

Secondly, no resource is ever scarce in a free market, because price always adjusts to resolve the scarcity. The key is that for this free market to work, the land must actually be free to participate in the market without obstruction by a centralized entity such as the Fed and without onerous, unjust (no local representation) taxes.

Karl Marx, on the other hand, believed that land should have no value and should be owned collectively, along with the means of production thereon.

Indeed as the Feds (BLM) is doing now. And you have supported that structure with your comments in this thread. Thanks for admitting you are a Communist.

[tvbcof]

Prior to the Bundy incident, I would have been basically in support of the effort to have various federal agencies (IRS, BLM, etc) shed their rapidly developing militarized enforcement wings.  The reason for this is the same reason I don't want to have the NSA doing bulk surveillance.  There are inherent risks which very likely will be realized at some point.  When an organization (or a person) has some capability there is a natural need to used it from time to time even in cases where it is uncalled for.  Worse than that, though, it really is a framework that Snowden describes as 'turnkey tyrrany.'  It provides an option for solving certain big problems in a certain way, and it is a place that I don't want to go.  At the very least, it is an inefficient use of resources.

Alas, the Bundy affair has made it clear that there really is a need to have a militarized force capable of non-trivial military operations.  I'm even less inclined to use the actual military for such operations than I would be to have various federal and state agencies have the capability.

The most rational approach seems to be to have one unified, centralized, and militarized unit, and to have a great deal of visibility into all aspects of their operation.

One aspect of such a structure is that there would be mobility issues.  That is a feature and not a bug as I see it.  Any actions they might take should be very deliberate.

Another aspect of such a structure is that they would not have some of the tactical advantages of surprise and covertness.  That is also a feature and not a bug.  The entire public should have visibility into every aspect of their operations.  Yes, it makes the unit less effective tactically, but it's a price worth paying to achieve very critical public support.

If I were the pres, I would say something like this:

We have an extra-ordinary and threatening situation at Bundy's ranch.  For this reason it is as of this time considered a special zone where certain normal rights are suspended.

Everyone who is currently within this special zone is ordered to leave immediately.  Those leaving will be evaluated to determine if they have participated in activities which are in violation of any specific laws.  Failure to comply with this order is a violation of blah, blah, blah, and the penalties will include blah, blah, blah.

On May 2nd at 0200, we will commence operations to secure the entire area.  These operations will be concluded by 0600 hours of the same day.  Survivors will be subject to punitive measures as described above.

All events will be documented with audio and video, and all of the documentation will be provided to the media.

Observers from a variety of adversarial organizations will be invited to take part of this operation to facilitate documentation and provide oversight.

[solarion]

Prior to the Bundy incident, I would have been basically in support of the effort to have various federal agencies (IRS, BLM, etc) shed their rapidly developing militarized enforcement wings.  The reason for this is the same reason I don't want to have the NSA doing bulk surveillance.  There are inherent risks which very likely will be realized at some point.  When an organization (or a person) has some capability there is a natural need to used it from time to time even in cases where it is uncalled for.  Worse than that, though, it really is a framework that Snowden describes as 'turnkey tyrrany.'  It provides an option for solving certain big problems in a certain way, and it is a place that I don't want to go.  At the very least, it is an inefficient use of resources.

Alas, the Bundy affair has made it clear that there really is a need to have a militarized force capable of non-trivial military operations.  I'm even less inclined to use the actual military for such operations than I would be to have various federal and state agencies have the capability.

The most rational approach seems to be to have one unified, centralized, and militarized unit, and to have a great deal of visibility into all aspects of their operation.

One aspect of such a structure is that there would be mobility issues.  That is a feature and not a bug as I see it.  Any actions they might take should be very deliberate.

Another aspect of such a structure is that they would not have some of the tactical advantages of surprise and covertness.  That is also a feature and not a bug.  The entire public should have visibility into every aspect of their operations.  Yes, it makes the unit less effective tactically, but it's a price worth paying to achieve very critical public support.

If I were the pres, I would say something like this:

We have an extra-ordinary and threatening situation at Bundy's ranch.  For this reason it is as of this time considered a special zone where certain normal rights are suspended.

Everyone who is currently within this special zone is ordered to leave immediately.  Those leaving will be evaluated to determine if they have participated in activities which are in violation of any specific laws.  Failure to comply with this order is a violation of blah, blah, blah, and the penalties will include blah, blah, blah.

On May 2nd at 0200, we will commence operations to secure the entire area.  These operations will be concluded by 0600 hours of the same day.  Survivors will be subject to punitive measures as described above.

All events will be documented with audio and video, and all of the documentation will be provided to the media.

Observers from a variety of adversarial organizations will be invited to take part of this operation to facilitate documentation and provide oversight.

Why would men and women choosing to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights make you so uncomfortable? It seems pretty clear the militia guys were welcome there. What's the problem? Please tell me you're not one of those people that think just seeing a legal weapon in plain view is cause to tattle? Open carry IS still legal in most of the US. Chicago and DC do not count as they've clearly been ceded to communist authority. It always seems strange to me when people that claim they support the 2nd Amendment get all weak in the knees when people actually exercise that right.

I have no problem with state executives having the authority to direct their state's guard to do their bidding, provided those guardsman that respond remember the oaths they've taken, but un-elected federal alphabet agency heads should have no such authority.

[tvbcof]

...
First of all, Adam Smith didn't understand degrees-of-freedom and entropy.
...

Ya, but I bet he was a master at 'simulated annealing' so that more than makes up for it.  <chuckle>

[tvbcof]

Why would men and women choosing to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights make you so uncomfortable? It seems pretty clear the militia guys were welcome there. What's the problem? Please tell me you're not one of those people that think just seeing a legal weapon in plain view is cause to tattle? Open carry IS still legal in most of the US. Chicago and DC do not count as they've clearly been ceded to communist authority. It always seems strange to me when people that claim they support the 2nd Amendment get all weak in the knees when people actually exercise that right.

I have no problem with state executives having the authority to direct their state's guard to do their bidding, provided those guardsman that respond remember the oaths they've taken, but un-elected federal alphabet agency heads should have no such authority.

This does not have much to do with the 2nd in my mind.  The guns are a tool that the militias were misusing, but it could have been anything from a pitchfork to a pipe-bomb to their own kids as human shields.

As far as I'm concerned, the militia clowns are actively supporting an ongoing crime.  You don't have to 'fear' a kid in order to spank his ass, and in fact it's hardly ever the case.  When the kid does something wrong it's appropriate (in my opinion) to give him a spanking.  Usually it's not something that the kid or the parent wants but at the end of the day, the kid is better off for it (I know I am.)  The parent understands this because they have greater wisdom and world view.

The American public to the militia clowns is fairly analogous to a parent/child relationship.  And if deadbeats and brats get away with doing bad, it will spawn more deadbeats and brats so the appropriate action is to put a stop to it as early as practical.  Bundy is a good example.  He got away with pulling his shit for two decades and here we are today with a much more significant problem than we would have if we'd thrown his ass in jail for a few days back in the early 90's.

[AnonyMint]

I thought I'd watch a little youtube about this thing tonight.

I watched some of this one first.  It's long so I just watch parts of it, but enough to see that the government probably can just stand back and let these militia clowns rip one another to pieces.  It seems to be looney tunes clusterfuck clown central!  Who could have guessed?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HkSAewoESg

Expended the 50 minutes to watch the entire video. Goddamn these guys are the reason I would still love my country and culture. Especially listen from the 45 minute point forward, where they explain this is a battle for the West and hotspots are popping up all over, not just at Bundy's ranch. And they explain how they are getting the local legislators and Sheriffs from the West organized and preparing model county legislation.

Appears that Bundy's camp has been infiltrated by the Feds who have sent their loonies there to try to mess up everything. This is well known technique they always employ to co-opt any movement they are against.  Let's hope the Bundy family can wise up and kick out these infiltrators.

You didn't watch the entire video carefully, otherwise you would gain the above insight. Rather you are just intent on making your Communist spin.

Whereas you are disgrace to everything our forefathers fought for.

Next I went looking for someone else who I could look down on and feel superior to and ran across this guy...

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGJ8XFpSsQA

who, to my amazement, seems to really have his shit together.  Goddamn it!  I guess I'll have to keep searching.

Refer to my upthread quote of Martin Armstrong who explained the corruption that was involved to violate the US constitution's requirement that when a state is formed, the land must revert to the state.

You continue to search for anything that can support your Communist position.

...
First of all, Adam Smith didn't understand degrees-of-freedom and entropy.
...

Ya, but I bet he was a master at 'simulated annealing' so that more than makes up for it.  <chuckle>

Admitting your ignorance of math is not a convincing argument.

Why would men and women choosing to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights make you so uncomfortable?

...

This does not have much to do with the 2nd in my mind.

What mind? You clearly don't have a functioning brain stem.

[tvbcof]

I watched some of this one first.  It's long so I just watch parts of it, but enough to see that the government probably can just stand back and let these militia clowns rip one another to pieces.  It seems to be looney tunes clusterfuck clown central!  Who could have guessed?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HkSAewoESg

...
Appears that Bundy's camp has been infiltrated by the Feds who have sent their loonies there to try to mess up everything. This is well known technique they always employ to co-op any movement they are against.  Let's hope the Bundy family can wise up and kick out these infiltrators.
...

Among the snippets that I watched these 'oath keepers' were trying to get a couple of kids out of the nuthouse but the mother wouldn't let them because it showed insufficient 'faith in God.'  Lessons:

 1) A good fraction of these people are truly cuckoo for cocoa-puffs (which, of course, we already knew.)

  2) These 'oath keepers' are probably more likely to have a higher percentage of inserts since they have not completely lost all sense of reality, morality, etc.

This does not have much to do with the 2nd in my mind.

What mind? You clearly don't have a functioning brain stem.

So you count physiology as one of your polymath skill.  I stand in awe.

[practicaldreamer]

Communists believe in the public ownership of the means of production. That is a noble aspiration in my book. It doesn't mean they should be villified in the same way as paedophiles surely  

Its a cheap,tired and cold war dig.

[AnonyMint]

I watched some of this one first.  It's long so I just watch parts of it, but enough to see that the government probably can just stand back and let these militia clowns rip one another to pieces.  It seems to be looney tunes clusterfuck clown central!  Who could have guessed?

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HkSAewoESg

...
Appears that Bundy's camp has been infiltrated by the Feds who have sent their loonies there to try to mess up everything. This is well known technique they always employ to co-op any movement they are against.  Let's hope the Bundy family can wise up and kick out these infiltrators.
...

Among the snippets that I watched these 'oath keepers' were trying to get a couple of kids out of the nuthouse but the mother wouldn't let them because it showed insufficient 'faith in God.'  Lessons:

 1) A good fraction of these people are truly cuckoo for cocoa-puffs (which, of course, we already knew.)

  2) These 'oath keepers' are probably more likely to have a higher percentage of inserts since they have not completely lost all sense of reality, morality, etc.

1. Perhaps you missed where it was explained that none of these troublemakers were in the initial group in the standoff with the Feds.

2. The guy in the black shirt was a psyops, so they should have the necessary expertise to weed out the infiltrators.

Perhaps I should clarify my position. Your brain stem is operative, but your pre-frontal cortex is overcome with fear.

Communists believe in the public ownership of the means of production. That is a noble aspiration in my book. It doesn't mean they should be villified in the same way as paedophiles surely  

Well at least you are honest about your belief. If you understood how megadeath results from public ownership, then hopefully you would recognize that pedophiles are much less destructive to society, though this isn't a plea to tolerate pedophilia.

[practicaldreamer]

If you understood how megadeath results from public ownership

Take deep breaths and count to 10

[AnonyMint]

If you understood how megadeath results from public ownership

Take deep breaths and count to 10

Good grief. You Communists always ignore historical evidence. Just stay in your position, your lesson is coming before 2020.

[practicaldreamer]

Profoundly obsfucating the prodigiously lucid 

[tvbcof]

Perhaps I should clarify my position. Your brain stem is operative, but your pre-frontal cortex is overcome with fear.

Wow!  We can add neuropsychology to your long list of skills!  You da' man!

I would note, however, that what you've done is not a 'clarification' but rather a 'reversal'.  Keep practicing your word-salad tossing and you might become proficient enough at it at some point that it is effective in public rather than just in sovereigncitizenville.

[Bit_Happy]

Communists believe in the public ownership of the means of production. That is a noble aspiration in my book...

Were the communists who murdered many millions of their own people noble?
Of course not.
You can dream all you want, in reality communism has proven to be extremely evil.

[tvbcof]

Well at least you are honest about your belief. If you understood how megadeath results from public ownership, then hopefully you would recognize that pedophiles are much less destructive to society, though this isn't a plea to tolerate pedophilia.

Of course it isn't...

[AnonyMint]

What mind? You clearly don't have a functioning brain stem.

Perhaps I should clarify my position. Your brain stem is operative, but your pre-frontal cortex is overcome with fear.

Wow!  We can add neuropsychology to your long list of skills!  You da' man!

I would note, however, that what you've done is not a 'clarification' but rather a 'reversal'.  Keep practicing your word-salad tossing and you might become proficient enough at it at some point that it is effective in public rather than just in sovereigncitizenville.

Perhaps you will learn the meaning of words someday.

func·tion
ˈfəNGkSHən/
verb
gerund or present participle: functioning

    work or operate in a proper or particular way.
    "her liver is functioning normally"

    "the electrical system had ceased to function"
        fulfill the purpose or task of (a specified thing)


op·er·a·tive
adjective \ˈä-p(ə-)rə-tiv, ˈä-pə-ˌrā-\

: ready for use : capable of being used

[counter]

Wow this whole issue on the Bundy ranch seems to spark some real interest around here.  I know it has more to do with out society then it does then Ranch.  Just intrigued how passionate people get about their beliefs.