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Author Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11  (Read 563568 times)
kosmost
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June 13, 2017, 06:19:05 AM
 #8161

Should we just re-launch the coin? There are too many unknowns at this point. I really don't want to do that (for the benefit of the Karma community) but I also realize we may not get very far under the current conditions.

Maybe relaunch on a platform like Ethereum? That may be our best bet at this point, and there could be lots of things we could do with it from there. Also, we would not have to worry about the wallet so much.

(Waves also looks interesting and probably has more reputable developers, but Ethereum could have the largest ecosystem by next year. Though they may have a problem with scaling with more autonomous entities running on the platform.)

I'm thinking only 888,000 coins. No ICO or pre-mine. Just pure Karma. Karma should be pure, not muddled with fifflyfluff.

I realize this is the nuclear option, since most of us own some Karma. At this point I don't really know what options we have that could secure the integrity of our coin, especially as it rises in price (i.e., some holders may be waiting to dump and profit from their theft, to the detriment of Karma).

If there's interest in other options then I'll create a new announcement post with a poll asking what Karma's future should be.

For example:

[ ] Keep things the way they are
[ ] Relaunch the coin as an independent coin (as it is now) on a new blockchain
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Waves
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Counterparty
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Ethereum
etc

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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kosmost
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June 13, 2017, 07:57:51 AM
 #8162

While browsing through the blockchain (as I sometimes like to do) I noticed that the KarmaToken was the recipient of massive amounts of Karma the day of KTN's launch.

For example, this transaction on November 2: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/karm/tx.dws?2449957.htm

is from this wallet with over 6,000 addresses: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/karm/address.dws?KPMgFrJf1a8bL7TZQmuy1z13wjcrjteAtk.htm

No doubt an exchange wallet. Perhaps it is Cryptsy's. There are many, many deposits: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/karm/wallet.dws?400656.htm

It currently holds 15,920,710,199 (even after investing billions in KTN) and last had activity 36 days ago, viewable here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/karm/#!wallets

It seems like the person who stole the wallet for themselves transferred coins to different addresses within the same wallet  but many of those coins ended up in the KTN wallet. I guess they thought it was as simple as putting a few token in the local Self-Launder-O-Matt. Not very bright, I might add.

I will inform EastEagle of this, since he most likely doesn't know about it.

The blockchain lasts forever, wouldn't you know.

If this person last transferred Karma 36 days ago, they are most certainly waiting for Karma to rise in order to dump, which is a good reason for us to start fresh with 100% pure Karma.

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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June 13, 2017, 08:07:39 AM
 #8163

I don't know if you guys know this but on:

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/karmacoin/#markets

The only market listed is Yobit, is that true?

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jos nije sajt spreman kliknite kasnije
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Alphi
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June 13, 2017, 08:21:20 AM
 #8164

Should we just re-launch the coin? There are too many unknowns at this point. I really don't want to do that (for the benefit of the Karma community) but I also realize we may not get very far under the current conditions.

Maybe relaunch on a platform like Ethereum? That may be our best bet at this point, and there could be lots of things we could do with it from there. Also, we would not have to worry about the wallet so much.

(Waves also looks interesting and probably has more reputable developers, but Ethereum could have the largest ecosystem by next year. Though they may have a problem with scaling with more autonomous entities running on the platform.)

I'm thinking only 888,000 coins. No ICO or pre-mine. Just pure Karma. Karma should be pure, not muddled with fifflyfluff.

I realize this is a nuclear option, since most of us own some Karma. At this point I don't really know what options we have that could secure the integrity of our coin, especially as it rises in price (i.e., some holders may be waiting to dump and profit from their activity, to the detriment of Karma).

If there's interest in other options then I'll create a new announcement post with a poll asking what Karma's future should be.

For example:

[ ] Keep things the way they are
[ ] Relaunch the coin as an independent coin (as it is now)
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Waves
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Counterparty
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Ethereum
etc

Hi Kosmost.. glad to see your still around.
I have been with Karma since its first few months of birth.
Just a few points:

1)
The reality is that at this stage the vast majority of coins are in the hands of criminals, crooks and gamblers.
That means that whatever good comes out of the existing Karma network going forward will mostly benefit those criminals, crooks and gamblers directly.

2)
Due to the excessive amount of coins in circulation value of Karm is so low that it would be almost impossible to get is listed against Bitcoin or Ether with any reasonable degree of liquidity.

3) the fundamentals of Karma are broken.. almost all of the coins were mined in the first few years which meant that early adopters controlled most of the coins. This made it much harder to encourage new miners and users to jump on board.


Really what this coin needs to do is drastically reduce the number of coins available and make the distribution more even across the years.

Coins need some kind of stability if they are going to be used as a currency so perhaps the amount of coins mined per year should be closer to that of inflation 3-5%

my vote would be for a relaunch of the coin using the same code base and assets but changed fundamentals so that early miners are rewarded but not given a free pass to instamine the the vast majority of coins that will ever exist.

Karma was a good idea but it was ruined by people speculating on exchanges.. the only way to mitigate against this is to make sure that the majority of coins are not mined until infrastructure can be put in place so that people can use the coin for something other than speculation and gambling.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
kosmost
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June 13, 2017, 08:56:38 AM
 #8165

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago. Or, as some would say, "waltzed in". So much has happened in the past few days I feel like my head is spinning.

So many productive things could have been accomplished in the past year or more. How easy would it have been to put up a simple website for Karma? or one of many other things to add value?

Sometimes I feel like the guy from the TV that never ages because he kissed the white wizard:

Now that that's out of the way.. a toast to a future of good Karma and an end to all the bad karma.

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
kosmost
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June 13, 2017, 09:03:39 AM
 #8166

Should we just re-launch the coin? There are too many unknowns at this point. I really don't want to do that (for the benefit of the Karma community) but I also realize we may not get very far under the current conditions.

Maybe relaunch on a platform like Ethereum? That may be our best bet at this point, and there could be lots of things we could do with it from there. Also, we would not have to worry about the wallet so much.

(Waves also looks interesting and probably has more reputable developers, but Ethereum could have the largest ecosystem by next year. Though they may have a problem with scaling with more autonomous entities running on the platform.)

I'm thinking only 888,000 coins. No ICO or pre-mine. Just pure Karma. Karma should be pure, not muddled with fifflyfluff.

I realize this is a nuclear option, since most of us own some Karma. At this point I don't really know what options we have that could secure the integrity of our coin, especially as it rises in price (i.e., some holders may be waiting to dump and profit from their activity, to the detriment of Karma).

If there's interest in other options then I'll create a new announcement post with a poll asking what Karma's future should be.

For example:

[ ] Keep things the way they are
[ ] Relaunch the coin as an independent coin (as it is now)
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Waves
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Counterparty
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Ethereum
etc

Hi Kosmost.. glad to see your still around.
I have been with Karma since its first few months of birth.
Just a few points:

1)
The reality is that at this stage the vast majority of coins are in the hands of criminals, crooks and gamblers.
That means that whatever good comes out of the existing Karma network going forward will mostly benefit those criminals, crooks and gamblers directly.

2)
Due to the excessive amount of coins in circulation value of Karm is so low that it would be almost impossible to get is listed against Bitcoin or Ether with any reasonable degree of liquidity.

3) the fundamentals of Karma are broken.. almost all of the coins were mined in the first few years which meant that early adopters controlled most of the coins. This made it much harder to encourage new miners and users to jump on board.


Really what this coin needs to do is drastically reduce the number of coins available and make the distribution more even across the years.

Coins need some kind of stability if they are going to be used as a currency so perhaps the amount of coins mined per year should be closer to that of inflation 3-5%

my vote would be for a relaunch of the coin using the same code base and assets but changed fundamentals so that early miners are rewarded but not given a free pass to instamine the the vast majority of coins that will ever exist.

Karma was a good idea but it was ruined by people speculating on exchanges.. the only way to mitigate against this is to make sure that the majority of coins are not mined until infrastructure can be put in place so that people can use the coin for something other than speculation and gambling.

Hi, Alphi. Nice to see you again.

All good points. One of the main benefits of a platform is to put the coin in the hands of more everyday people. As the platforms mature more services will come out for it. I would imagine, for example, that we would send many new users from the general public not to a complicated set of wallet download instructions (including waiting for blocks to be processed) but directly to an exchange or online wallet like blockchain where checking their account is simple.

I suppose we don't know exactly what the future holds, which is why coins are speculation. But if I was a guessin' man I would bet that the Bitcoin code (from which we all copy) is already old technology in light of newer platforms that have infinite possibilities.

(We could also write a piece of code for it that helps to stabilize the price and prevent market manipulation, much like Nasdaq does to prevent sudden price drops.)

3% inflation is perfect, and in line with the growth of the USD economy as well.

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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June 13, 2017, 11:52:50 AM
 #8167

Good points guys. Karma needs a refresh.

In my opinion It is best to launch Karma ASAP as it is now with minimum efforts and basic functionalities.
It is important to spend most of the efforts on a strict business plan with clear goals - How to make Karma contemporary coin (etherium..), applications and how the change will happen - swap or exchange (ex. 1 000 000 : 1). Then as coin is already on some exchanges (bleutrade is ok for start, bittrex and poloniex would be even better) the market already it will be much easier to promote the improvements and the bright future.

Maybe you remember few years ago how Mooncoin and Karmcoin always been related and go through the same stages. Now you can see Moon - 5 satoshi => then why Karm is not reasonable to be 3-5 satoshi, especially with a strong communitiy and a leader behind it.

That's my thought.
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June 13, 2017, 02:20:20 PM
 #8168

Should we just re-launch the coin? There are too many unknowns at this point. I really don't want to do that (for the benefit of the Karma community) but I also realize we may not get very far under the current conditions.

Maybe relaunch on a platform like Ethereum? That may be our best bet at this point, and there could be lots of things we could do with it from there. Also, we would not have to worry about the wallet so much.

(Waves also looks interesting and probably has more reputable developers, but Ethereum could have the largest ecosystem by next year. Though they may have a problem with scaling with more autonomous entities running on the platform.)

I'm thinking only 888,000 coins. No ICO or pre-mine. Just pure Karma. Karma should be pure, not muddled with fifflyfluff.

I realize this is the nuclear option, since most of us own some Karma. At this point I don't really know what options we have that could secure the integrity of our coin, especially as it rises in price (i.e., some holders may be waiting to dump and profit from their activity, to the detriment of Karma).

If there's interest in other options then I'll create a new announcement post with a poll asking what Karma's future should be.

For example:

[ ] Keep things the way they are
[ ] Relaunch the coin as an independent coin (as it is now) on a new blockchain
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Waves
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Counterparty
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Ethereum
etc

I think will be really interesting to relaunch Karma on waves. This is a rapidly growing and constantly gaining popularity platform.


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luckytimes
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June 13, 2017, 04:37:46 PM
 #8169

Anyone heard back about the Yobit wallet maintenance issue?
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June 13, 2017, 05:48:01 PM
 #8170

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago....
 

Not sure if you noticed but east (eagle?)  tried to launch KarmaToken based on the same principle as Karma last year.
I just saw it today but at least some people have been trying to keep up the spirit of the community.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667865.0



KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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June 13, 2017, 06:12:06 PM
 #8171

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago....
 

Not sure if you noticed but east (eagle?)  tried to launch KarmaToken based on the same principle as Karma last year.
I just saw it today but at least some people have been trying to keep up the spirit of the community.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667865.0




KarmaToken is not fair.... KARMA is the only real coin.

Development Sustainability Fund: 12.5% of Token

So people were swapping for KarmaToken and it is even not trading on a big exchange and you take 12.5% for yourself.... People that didn't swap made some good profit when they were able to sell at 1 sat as KARMA was trading in the low LTC market on cryptsy before it went offline.


• For Karma holders  (1)                                      : 9,200,000 tokens- 172,774 for nhzKARM holders
• Airdrop Distribution Fund  (2)                             : 4,600,000 tokens- 25% of the total supply to be sent to some selected Counterparty assets holders as scheduled above
• Advertising/PR drive/Compensation (3)                : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply for all information and teaching drive that will be conducted by the community
• Business and development/Compensation fund (4) : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply plus other balances


Another point... Airdrop... people didn't want all those things as we know what it all means... air drop = dev pockets....



I'm happy that KARMA is STILL ALIVE and this without KARMAToken!!!!

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June 13, 2017, 06:53:20 PM
 #8172

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago....
 

Not sure if you noticed but east (eagle?)  tried to launch KarmaToken based on the same principle as Karma last year.
I just saw it today but at least some people have been trying to keep up the spirit of the community.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667865.0




KarmaToken is not fair.... KARMA is the only real coin.

Development Sustainability Fund: 12.5% of Token

So people were swapping for KarmaToken and it is even not trading on a big exchange and you take 12.5% for yourself.... People that didn't swap made some good profit when they were able to sell at 1 sat as KARMA was trading in the low LTC market on cryptsy before it went offline.


• For Karma holders  (1)                                      : 9,200,000 tokens- 172,774 for nhzKARM holders
• Airdrop Distribution Fund  (2)                             : 4,600,000 tokens- 25% of the total supply to be sent to some selected Counterparty assets holders as scheduled above
• Advertising/PR drive/Compensation (3)                : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply for all information and teaching drive that will be conducted by the community
• Business and development/Compensation fund (4) : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply plus other balances


Another point... Airdrop... people didn't want all those things as we know what it all means... air drop = dev pockets....



I'm happy that KARMA is STILL ALIVE and this without KARMAToken!!!!

I may not agree with a lot of things that East does or says.

But saying that the airdrop was to his pockets is a serious accusation.
And it is something I'm not inclined to believe...

And if not for East then there would be much less people interested in Karma today, being it KarmaToken or the older KarmaCoin.
East was one of the only guys willing to do something when the KarmaCoin boat was sinking.

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kosmost
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June 13, 2017, 07:00:36 PM
 #8173

Anyone heard back about the Yobit wallet maintenance issue?

Seems to be working fine, according to a few others who have mentioned it.

Are you having any trouble?

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June 13, 2017, 07:02:05 PM
 #8174

Yes.. without East, Karma would have probably died a long time ago.

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June 13, 2017, 07:07:35 PM
 #8175

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago....
 

Not sure if you noticed but east (eagle?)  tried to launch KarmaToken based on the same principle as Karma last year.
I just saw it today but at least some people have been trying to keep up the spirit of the community.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667865.0




KarmaToken is not fair.... KARMA is the only real coin.

Development Sustainability Fund: 12.5% of Token

So people were swapping for KarmaToken and it is even not trading on a big exchange and you take 12.5% for yourself.... People that didn't swap made some good profit when they were able to sell at 1 sat as KARMA was trading in the low LTC market on cryptsy before it went offline.


• For Karma holders  (1)                                      : 9,200,000 tokens- 172,774 for nhzKARM holders
• Airdrop Distribution Fund  (2)                             : 4,600,000 tokens- 25% of the total supply to be sent to some selected Counterparty assets holders as scheduled above
• Advertising/PR drive/Compensation (3)                : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply for all information and teaching drive that will be conducted by the community
• Business and development/Compensation fund (4) : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply plus other balances


Another point... Airdrop... people didn't want all those things as we know what it all means... air drop = dev pockets....



I'm happy that KARMA is STILL ALIVE and this without KARMAToken!!!!

I may not agree with a lot of things that East does or says.

But saying that the airdrop was to his pockets is a serious accusation.
And it is something I'm not inclined to believe...

And if not for East then there would be much less people interested in Karma today, being it KarmaToken or the older KarmaCoin.
East was one of the only guys willing to do something when the KarmaCoin boat was sinking.

Maybe... maybe not... A fair swap would just be swapping the KARMA coins into a new coin. Nothing extra for development funds etc as the person that is planning to swap is already owning KARMA coin... so if he believe in the coin then he buy KARMA and create his stake by buying on the marketplace and not by introducing development funds etc... we all know what happened in the past with all those kind of structures... not saying that it will happen again, but the proposal of the swap was just terrible.

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June 13, 2017, 07:16:25 PM
 #8176

I've checkout out multiple platforms today and thought that Ethereum and Omni looked most interesting.

I began with Omni and created an account and went through the process of creating a test crytocurrency. It seems like it would be a far easier platform than Ethereum, but they have 0 documentation about it. They talk about being a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain but actually they don't say anything about it in their Wiki: https://github.com/OmniLayer/omniwallet/wiki

Something else to consider is that Bitcoin is often very slow. I've made two transfers into my Omni wallet and one took about 40 minutes while the other is taking several hours. Some of my BTC transactions can take more than a day, even when I pay a higher transaction fee.

The Omni website is also very buggy, which is surprising considering there are some big names (MaidSafe, Tether) using their platform. Logging you out of the system automatically every 3 minutes when you are doing something is something kind of funny, if not frustrating.

I also made this to get a better picture of how related assets are performing:


Personally, I think Ethereum would be the best choice. Not because it is cool or trendy or exploding in price, but because so many organizations are giving it serious consideration now. Some of the biggest names in the world are taking Ethereum seriously, whereas they never took Bitcoin seriously before. Microsoft, Toyota, Merck KGaA, Infosys, Deloitte, Intel, JP Morgan. Not that I want to do business with those companies but it tells you how developed the ecosystem will be in a few years.

(Also, the more companies that use Ethereum the higher the price will go (because they need to buy Eth), which would also help support Karma's price considerably.)

We want all Karma holders to be able to check the code and make sure everything is square and the coin is fair. You can't really do that with the current code. The last Karma wallet before the current one had some hidden code that gave the original developer billions of essentially free coins.

I've been on the Ethereum platform today and it would be quite simple to create Karma as an Ethereum token. However, I am consulting with someone who is kind of an Ethereum expert.

Although above I said I wouldn't want Karma to have an ICO, I am wondering if there are any options to satisfy the many current Karma holders to buy at a discounted price or something like that.

If we do a straight swap of new Karma for old Karma then there would probably be many nefarious characters also included in the mix, people who have stolen coins trying to get the new coins.

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June 13, 2017, 07:27:12 PM
 #8177

I confirm yobit.net is working fine for now but people don't trade. This maintnance scared people and will need some time to recover trust. Still bleutrade seems much more reliable.
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June 13, 2017, 07:28:30 PM
 #8178

I've checkout out multiple platforms today and thought that Ethereum and Omni looked most interesting.

I began with Omni and created an account and went through the process of creating a test crytocurrency. It seems like it would be a far easier platform than Ethereum, but they have 0 documentation about it. They talk about being a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain but actually they don't say anything about it in their Wiki: https://github.com/OmniLayer/omniwallet/wiki

Something else to consider is that Bitcoin is often very slow. I've made two transfers into my Omni wallet and one took about 40 minutes while the other is taking several hours. Some of my BTC transactions can take more than a day, even when I pay a higher transaction fee.

The Omni website is also very buggy, which is surprising considering there are some big names (MaidSafe, Tether) using their platform. Logging you out of the system automatically every 3 minutes when you are doing something is something kind of funny, if not frustrating.

I also made this to get a better picture of how related assets are performing:


Personally, I think Ethereum would be the best choice. Not because it is cool or trendy or exploding in price, but because so many organizations are giving it serious consideration now. Some of the biggest names in the world are taking Ethereum seriously, whereas they never took Bitcoin seriously before. Microsoft, Toyota, Merck KGaA, Infosys, Deloitte, Intel, JP Morgan. Not that I want to do business with those companies but it tells you how developed the ecosystem will be in a few years.

(Also, the more companies that use Ethereum the higher the price will go (because they need to buy Eth), which would also help support Karma's price considerably.)

They're also focusing on making it easy for the average user, which is important: https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/12/03/how-to-build-your-own-cryptocurrency/

We want all Karma holders to be able to check the code and make sure everything is square and the coin is fair. You can't really do that with the current code.

I've been on the Ethereum platform today and it would be quite simple to create Karma as an Ethereum token. However, I am consulting with someone who is kind of an Ethereum expert.

Although above I said I wouldn't want Karma to have an ICO, I am wondering if there are any options to satisfy the many current Karma holders to buy at a discounted price or something like that.

If we do a straight swap of new Karma for old Karma then there would probably be many nefarious characters also included in the mix, people who have stolen coins trying to get the new coins.

Sorry but why do we need a swap? Can people not focus on the original KARMA coin... and get this one moving? Why should we even talk about swaps... Who will do the swap? You need a good escrow to do this, and not just the new dev that does the swap. Also it should already be listed on exchanges like Yobit. As why would anybody want to swap KARMA coin to another coin when that coin is even not listed on a exchange like KARMAToken in the past???

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June 13, 2017, 07:29:01 PM
 #8179

I confirm yobit.net is working fine for now but people don't trade. This maintnance scared people and will need some time to recover trust. Still bleutrade seems much more reliable.

KARMA is not on bluetrade?

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June 13, 2017, 07:37:11 PM
 #8180

Sorry but why do we need a swap? Can people not focus on the original KARMA coin... and get this one moving? Why should we even talk about swaps... Who will do the swap? You need a good escrow to do this, and not just the new dev that does the swap. Also it should already be listed on exchanges like Yobit. As why would anybody want to swap KARMA coin to another coin when that coin is even not listed on a exchange like KARMAToken in the past???

It has been mentioned before, but it doesn't mean that is the best way to go.

With Karma on Ethereum, we could be listed on Bittrex and other exchanges. It would be the same.

It's good to consider several options and weigh pros and cons of each, not just the ones we have a personal preference for. Also, to illustrate that multiple aspects are being considered.

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