[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[georggmg]

Good points guys. Karma needs a refresh.

In my opinion It is best to launch Karma ASAP as it is now with minimum efforts and basic functionalities.
It is important to spend most of the efforts on a strict business plan with clear goals - How to make Karma contemporary coin (etherium..), applications and how the change will happen - swap or exchange (ex. 1 000 000 : 1). Then as coin is already on some exchanges (bleutrade is ok for start, bittrex and poloniex would be even better) the market already it will be much easier to promote the improvements and the bright future.

Maybe you remember few years ago how Mooncoin and Karmcoin always been related and go through the same stages. Now you can see Moon - 5 satoshi => then why Karm is not reasonable to be 3-5 satoshi, especially with a strong communitiy and a leader behind it.

That's my thought.

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[algreen]

Should we just re-launch the coin? There are too many unknowns at this point. I really don't want to do that (for the benefit of the Karma community) but I also realize we may not get very far under the current conditions.

Maybe relaunch on a platform like Ethereum? That may be our best bet at this point, and there could be lots of things we could do with it from there. Also, we would not have to worry about the wallet so much.

(Waves also looks interesting and probably has more reputable developers, but Ethereum could have the largest ecosystem by next year. Though they may have a problem with scaling with more autonomous entities running on the platform.)

I'm thinking only 888,000 coins. No ICO or pre-mine. Just pure Karma. Karma should be pure, not muddled with fifflyfluff.

I realize this is the nuclear option, since most of us own some Karma. At this point I don't really know what options we have that could secure the integrity of our coin, especially as it rises in price (i.e., some holders may be waiting to dump and profit from their activity, to the detriment of Karma).

If there's interest in other options then I'll create a new announcement post with a poll asking what Karma's future should be.

For example:

[ ] Keep things the way they are
[ ] Relaunch the coin as an independent coin (as it is now) on a new blockchain
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Waves
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Counterparty
[ ] Relaunch the coin on Ethereum
etc

I think will be really interesting to relaunch Karma on waves. This is a rapidly growing and constantly gaining popularity platform.

[luckytimes]

Anyone heard back about the Yobit wallet maintenance issue?

[Alphi]

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago....
 

Not sure if you noticed but east (eagle?)  tried to launch KarmaToken based on the same principle as Karma last year.
I just saw it today but at least some people have been trying to keep up the spirit of the community.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667865.0

[tinaken_v]

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago....
 

Not sure if you noticed but east (eagle?)  tried to launch KarmaToken based on the same principle as Karma last year.
I just saw it today but at least some people have been trying to keep up the spirit of the community.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667865.0

KarmaToken is not fair.... KARMA is the only real coin.

Development Sustainability Fund: 12.5% of Token

So people were swapping for KarmaToken and it is even not trading on a big exchange and you take 12.5% for yourself.... People that didn't swap made some good profit when they were able to sell at 1 sat as KARMA was trading in the low LTC market on cryptsy before it went offline.


• For Karma holders  (1)                                      : 9,200,000 tokens- 172,774 for nhzKARM holders
• Airdrop Distribution Fund  (2)                             : 4,600,000 tokens- 25% of the total supply to be sent to some selected Counterparty assets holders as scheduled above
• Advertising/PR drive/Compensation (3)                : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply for all information and teaching drive that will be conducted by the community
• Business and development/Compensation fund (4) : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply plus other balances

Another point... Airdrop... people didn't want all those things as we know what it all means... air drop = dev pockets....



I'm happy that KARMA is STILL ALIVE and this without KARMAToken!!!!

[ptman]

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago....
 

Not sure if you noticed but east (eagle?)  tried to launch KarmaToken based on the same principle as Karma last year.
I just saw it today but at least some people have been trying to keep up the spirit of the community.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667865.0

KarmaToken is not fair.... KARMA is the only real coin.

Development Sustainability Fund: 12.5% of Token

So people were swapping for KarmaToken and it is even not trading on a big exchange and you take 12.5% for yourself.... People that didn't swap made some good profit when they were able to sell at 1 sat as KARMA was trading in the low LTC market on cryptsy before it went offline.


• For Karma holders  (1)                                      : 9,200,000 tokens- 172,774 for nhzKARM holders
• Airdrop Distribution Fund  (2)                             : 4,600,000 tokens- 25% of the total supply to be sent to some selected Counterparty assets holders as scheduled above
• Advertising/PR drive/Compensation (3)                : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply for all information and teaching drive that will be conducted by the community
• Business and development/Compensation fund (4) : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply plus other balances

Another point... Airdrop... people didn't want all those things as we know what it all means... air drop = dev pockets....



I'm happy that KARMA is STILL ALIVE and this without KARMAToken!!!!

I may not agree with a lot of things that East does or says.

But saying that the airdrop was to his pockets is a serious accusation.
And it is something I'm not inclined to believe...

And if not for East then there would be much less people interested in Karma today, being it KarmaToken or the older KarmaCoin.
East was one of the only guys willing to do something when the KarmaCoin boat was sinking.

[kosmost]

Anyone heard back about the Yobit wallet maintenance issue?

Seems to be working fine, according to a few others who have mentioned it.

Are you having any trouble?

[kosmost]

Yes.. without East, Karma would have probably died a long time ago.

[tinaken_v]

I can't believe I've only re-joined this thread 5 days ago....
 

Not sure if you noticed but east (eagle?)  tried to launch KarmaToken based on the same principle as Karma last year.
I just saw it today but at least some people have been trying to keep up the spirit of the community.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1667865.0

KarmaToken is not fair.... KARMA is the only real coin.

Development Sustainability Fund: 12.5% of Token

So people were swapping for KarmaToken and it is even not trading on a big exchange and you take 12.5% for yourself.... People that didn't swap made some good profit when they were able to sell at 1 sat as KARMA was trading in the low LTC market on cryptsy before it went offline.


• For Karma holders  (1)                                      : 9,200,000 tokens- 172,774 for nhzKARM holders
• Airdrop Distribution Fund  (2)                             : 4,600,000 tokens- 25% of the total supply to be sent to some selected Counterparty assets holders as scheduled above
• Advertising/PR drive/Compensation (3)                : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply for all information and teaching drive that will be conducted by the community
• Business and development/Compensation fund (4) : 2,300,000 tokens- 12.5% of the total supply plus other balances

Another point... Airdrop... people didn't want all those things as we know what it all means... air drop = dev pockets....



I'm happy that KARMA is STILL ALIVE and this without KARMAToken!!!!

I may not agree with a lot of things that East does or says.

But saying that the airdrop was to his pockets is a serious accusation.
And it is something I'm not inclined to believe...

And if not for East then there would be much less people interested in Karma today, being it KarmaToken or the older KarmaCoin.
East was one of the only guys willing to do something when the KarmaCoin boat was sinking.

Maybe... maybe not... A fair swap would just be swapping the KARMA coins into a new coin. Nothing extra for development funds etc as the person that is planning to swap is already owning KARMA coin... so if he believe in the coin then he buy KARMA and create his stake by buying on the marketplace and not by introducing development funds etc... we all know what happened in the past with all those kind of structures... not saying that it will happen again, but the proposal of the swap was just terrible.

[kosmost]

I've checkout out multiple platforms today and thought that Ethereum and Omni looked most interesting.

I began with Omni and created an account and went through the process of creating a test crytocurrency. It seems like it would be a far easier platform than Ethereum, but they have 0 documentation about it. They talk about being a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain but actually they don't say anything about it in their Wiki: https://github.com/OmniLayer/omniwallet/wiki

Something else to consider is that Bitcoin is often very slow. I've made two transfers into my Omni wallet and one took about 40 minutes while the other is taking several hours. Some of my BTC transactions can take more than a day, even when I pay a higher transaction fee.

The Omni website is also very buggy, which is surprising considering there are some big names (MaidSafe, Tether) using their platform. Logging you out of the system automatically every 3 minutes when you are doing something is something kind of funny, if not frustrating.

I also made this to get a better picture of how related assets are performing:


Personally, I think Ethereum would be the best choice. Not because it is cool or trendy or exploding in price, but because so many organizations are giving it serious consideration now. Some of the biggest names in the world are taking Ethereum seriously, whereas they never took Bitcoin seriously before. Microsoft, Toyota, Merck KGaA, Infosys, Deloitte, Intel, JP Morgan. Not that I want to do business with those companies but it tells you how developed the ecosystem will be in a few years.

(Also, the more companies that use Ethereum the higher the price will go (because they need to buy Eth), which would also help support Karma's price considerably.)

We want all Karma holders to be able to check the code and make sure everything is square and the coin is fair. You can't really do that with the current code. The last Karma wallet before the current one had some hidden code that gave the original developer billions of essentially free coins.

I've been on the Ethereum platform today and it would be quite simple to create Karma as an Ethereum token. However, I am consulting with someone who is kind of an Ethereum expert.

Although above I said I wouldn't want Karma to have an ICO, I am wondering if there are any options to satisfy the many current Karma holders to buy at a discounted price or something like that.

If we do a straight swap of new Karma for old Karma then there would probably be many nefarious characters also included in the mix, people who have stolen coins trying to get the new coins.

[georggmg]

I confirm yobit.net is working fine for now but people don't trade. This maintnance scared people and will need some time to recover trust. Still bleutrade seems much more reliable.

[tinaken_v]

I've checkout out multiple platforms today and thought that Ethereum and Omni looked most interesting.

I began with Omni and created an account and went through the process of creating a test crytocurrency. It seems like it would be a far easier platform than Ethereum, but they have 0 documentation about it. They talk about being a layer on top of the Bitcoin blockchain but actually they don't say anything about it in their Wiki: https://github.com/OmniLayer/omniwallet/wiki

Something else to consider is that Bitcoin is often very slow. I've made two transfers into my Omni wallet and one took about 40 minutes while the other is taking several hours. Some of my BTC transactions can take more than a day, even when I pay a higher transaction fee.

The Omni website is also very buggy, which is surprising considering there are some big names (MaidSafe, Tether) using their platform. Logging you out of the system automatically every 3 minutes when you are doing something is something kind of funny, if not frustrating.

I also made this to get a better picture of how related assets are performing:


Personally, I think Ethereum would be the best choice. Not because it is cool or trendy or exploding in price, but because so many organizations are giving it serious consideration now. Some of the biggest names in the world are taking Ethereum seriously, whereas they never took Bitcoin seriously before. Microsoft, Toyota, Merck KGaA, Infosys, Deloitte, Intel, JP Morgan. Not that I want to do business with those companies but it tells you how developed the ecosystem will be in a few years.

(Also, the more companies that use Ethereum the higher the price will go (because they need to buy Eth), which would also help support Karma's price considerably.)

They're also focusing on making it easy for the average user, which is important: https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/12/03/how-to-build-your-own-cryptocurrency/

We want all Karma holders to be able to check the code and make sure everything is square and the coin is fair. You can't really do that with the current code.

I've been on the Ethereum platform today and it would be quite simple to create Karma as an Ethereum token. However, I am consulting with someone who is kind of an Ethereum expert.

Although above I said I wouldn't want Karma to have an ICO, I am wondering if there are any options to satisfy the many current Karma holders to buy at a discounted price or something like that.

If we do a straight swap of new Karma for old Karma then there would probably be many nefarious characters also included in the mix, people who have stolen coins trying to get the new coins.

Sorry but why do we need a swap? Can people not focus on the original KARMA coin... and get this one moving? Why should we even talk about swaps... Who will do the swap? You need a good escrow to do this, and not just the new dev that does the swap. Also it should already be listed on exchanges like Yobit. As why would anybody want to swap KARMA coin to another coin when that coin is even not listed on a exchange like KARMAToken in the past???

[tinaken_v]

I confirm yobit.net is working fine for now but people don't trade. This maintnance scared people and will need some time to recover trust. Still bleutrade seems much more reliable.

KARMA is not on bluetrade?

[kosmost]

Sorry but why do we need a swap? Can people not focus on the original KARMA coin... and get this one moving? Why should we even talk about swaps... Who will do the swap? You need a good escrow to do this, and not just the new dev that does the swap. Also it should already be listed on exchanges like Yobit. As why would anybody want to swap KARMA coin to another coin when that coin is even not listed on a exchange like KARMAToken in the past???

It has been mentioned before, but it doesn't mean that is the best way to go.

With Karma on Ethereum, we could be listed on Bittrex and other exchanges. It would be the same.

It's good to consider several options and weigh pros and cons of each, not just the ones we have a personal preference for. Also, to illustrate that multiple aspects are being considered.

[tinaken_v]

Sorry but why do we need a swap? Can people not focus on the original KARMA coin... and get this one moving? Why should we even talk about swaps... Who will do the swap? You need a good escrow to do this, and not just the new dev that does the swap. Also it should already be listed on exchanges like Yobit. As why would anybody want to swap KARMA coin to another coin when that coin is even not listed on a exchange like KARMAToken in the past???

It has been mentioned before, but it doesn't mean that is the best way to go.

With Karma on Ethereum, we could be listed on Bittrex and other exchanges. It would be the same.

It's good to consider several options and weigh pros and cons of each, not just the ones we have a personal preference for. Also, to illustrate that multiple aspects are being considered.

As long as the swap is fair and people can trade it... then it is moving in the right direction... Why not something similar then ZEC... that 5% of the new blocks goes to dev and not having those massively premine amount of dev (when you check what happens with coins with premine on Yobit then you know what i mean)...

[kosmost]

Sorry but why do we need a swap? Can people not focus on the original KARMA coin... and get this one moving? Why should we even talk about swaps... Who will do the swap? You need a good escrow to do this, and not just the new dev that does the swap. Also it should already be listed on exchanges like Yobit. As why would anybody want to swap KARMA coin to another coin when that coin is even not listed on a exchange like KARMAToken in the past???

It has been mentioned before, but it doesn't mean that is the best way to go.

With Karma on Ethereum, we could be listed on Bittrex and other exchanges. It would be the same.

It's good to consider several options and weigh pros and cons of each, not just the ones we have a personal preference for. Also, to illustrate that multiple aspects are being considered.

As long as the swap is fair and people can trade it... then it is moving in the right direction... Why not something similar then ZEC... that 5% of the new blocks goes to dev and not having those massively premine amount of dev (when you check what happens with coins with premine on Yobit then you know what i mean)...

Considering how many billions of bad coins we have there would be no way to make it fair. Maybe with some future technology to investigate the blockchain but it's not something we can do now.

What's to prevent someone who stole coins, for example, from swapping their coins for the new coin?

Perhaps the best way is a fresh start.

[tinaken_v]

Sorry but why do we need a swap? Can people not focus on the original KARMA coin... and get this one moving? Why should we even talk about swaps... Who will do the swap? You need a good escrow to do this, and not just the new dev that does the swap. Also it should already be listed on exchanges like Yobit. As why would anybody want to swap KARMA coin to another coin when that coin is even not listed on a exchange like KARMAToken in the past???

It has been mentioned before, but it doesn't mean that is the best way to go.

With Karma on Ethereum, we could be listed on Bittrex and other exchanges. It would be the same.

It's good to consider several options and weigh pros and cons of each, not just the ones we have a personal preference for. Also, to illustrate that multiple aspects are being considered.

As long as the swap is fair and people can trade it... then it is moving in the right direction... Why not something similar then ZEC... that 5% of the new blocks goes to dev and not having those massively premine amount of dev (when you check what happens with coins with premine on Yobit then you know what i mean)...

Considering how many billions of bad coins we have there would be no way to make it fair. Maybe with some future technology to investigate the blockchain but it's not something we can do now.

What's to prevent someone who stole coins, for example, from swapping their coins for the new coin?

Perhaps the best way is a fresh start.

What i mean with fair is:

For example the following:

1,000,000 KARMA coins will become 1 new KARMA coin. This will reduce the number of coins by 1/1,000,000 so only 76,076,000 million coins will be available.

1. Assign a escrow (the best would be Yobit infact) to do the swap.

2. All unswapped coins needs to be destroyed too. (again the best would be Yobit)

3. Create a new coin using ETH/ZEC/ or any other latest technology to make the coin up to date.

4. Find a team that work on the new coin in interest of the coins that they own in the current KARMA stake and not asking a ridicules 5% ... 10% .. or 12.5% premine... else i can also do the swap myself. Give me 12.5% premine, i will launch a coin, create a website and done... taking home 5 - 10 BTC....so the new coin needs to be done by people out of charity and not out of premine that they can dump.

[kosmost]

Sorry but why do we need a swap? Can people not focus on the original KARMA coin... and get this one moving? Why should we even talk about swaps... Who will do the swap? You need a good escrow to do this, and not just the new dev that does the swap. Also it should already be listed on exchanges like Yobit. As why would anybody want to swap KARMA coin to another coin when that coin is even not listed on a exchange like KARMAToken in the past???

It has been mentioned before, but it doesn't mean that is the best way to go.

With Karma on Ethereum, we could be listed on Bittrex and other exchanges. It would be the same.

It's good to consider several options and weigh pros and cons of each, not just the ones we have a personal preference for. Also, to illustrate that multiple aspects are being considered.

As long as the swap is fair and people can trade it... then it is moving in the right direction... Why not something similar then ZEC... that 5% of the new blocks goes to dev and not having those massively premine amount of dev (when you check what happens with coins with premine on Yobit then you know what i mean)...

Considering how many billions of bad coins we have there would be no way to make it fair. Maybe with some future technology to investigate the blockchain but it's not something we can do now.

What's to prevent someone who stole coins, for example, from swapping their coins for the new coin?

Perhaps the best way is a fresh start.

What i mean with fair is:

For example the following:

1,000,000 KARMA coins will become 1 new KARMA coin. This will reduce the number of coins by 1/1,000,000 so only 76,076,000 million coins will be available.

1. Assign a escrow (the best would be Yobit infact) to do the swap.

2. All unswapped coins needs to be destroyed too. (again the best would be Yobit)

3. Create a new coin using ETH/ZEC/ or any other latest technology to make the coin up to date.

4. Find a team that work on the new coin in interest of the coins that they own in the current KARMA stake and not asking a ridicules 5% ... 10% .. or 12.5% premine... else i can also do the swap myself. Give me 12.5% premine, i will launch a coin, create a website and done... taking home 5 - 10 BTC....so the new coin needs to be done by people out of charity and not out of premine that they can dump.

So how do we avoid the billions in stolen Karma being exchanged for new Karma? That's the important question.

It could be a significant portion of the current supply (!).... 20-40 billion in stolen coins

[kosmost]

Specs for the new coin. Let us know your thoughts.

Name: Karma or Karma Coin. ("karma coin" to prevent confusion with the word "karma" when used in conversations with others. Similar to how the average person may know of "Bitcoin" but if someone says "I have 3 bits" then it may be confusing, which may diminish the value of the initial impression.)

Platform: Ethereum

Initial Supply: 888,000. However, this number will fluctuate according to supply and demand, like the time-tested US money supply. This prevents too much inflation if the Karma economy is down, and prevents deflation as the economy expands. Importantly, it will ensure that the coin gets into more hands. The more the economy grows the more Karma there are. An increase in Karma supply will stimulate increased spending because it puts more Karma in the hands of users. Not all coins will be released at the same time. (Will have to think more about this.)

(We can also add a function to buy Karma when the price is cheap and sell when the price is expensive in order to stabilize the currency.)

Initial Market Cap: about $300,000. for 888,000 coins (?) Is it way too high?

ICO: No. It's better to show some value first, not just make promises as ICOs do. First, we'll show some value. The Karma price can increase commensurately with the value that we have produced. We will then leverage the increased market value for funding needs. Rinse, then repeat as we grow.

Companies that begin with too much capital on their hands usually end up wasting it. (See startups in the 90s and today.) It's also a way to provide fat paychecks and benefits to the people who run the companies behind ICOs.

With Karma, if an 'executive' or manager wants to benefit from Karma they will have to buy it on the open market just like everyone else. (Not that managers are necessary with Ethereum. We could set up a decentralized autonomous organization to manage most of Karma automatically, with 1 or 2 people to make sure everything is running smoothly.)

Raising funds can be had by increasing the money supply from the initial. (See above) This function can be democratic eventually, but initially I will manage it according to supply/demand until the 'sweet spot' is found.

Mining: In order to prevent dumping and distribute the currency more evenly to users, there will be no mining for the coin. However, in the spirit of Karma there will be online services that users can go to 'mine' Karma by adding social value to the community. (For example, posting a video on Karmaplex.com or writing a blog post) This will not only likely allow for better stability and increased long-term value, but will also expand awareness of Karma to more users than mining along could not have been able to do. Mining is too much of a silo. Under the old algorithm it is good and supports the coin. Under the new platform, it is not needed. But if users want some Karma for a little effort (that helps Karma to grow) they can have it. It's the future.

(However, we do have the option of doing merged mining with ether. In that case anyone who finds a block on ethereum would also get a reward from Karma. Their reward may not be enough Karma to satisfy them, however. This will probably change in future as Ethereum moves from POW to a mixed proof of stake and betting system called Casper.)

Ability to freeze accounts: Karma can have the (democratic) ability to freeze any specific account. We don't need to have this function but it is an option in the case of stolen coins. Any account that is frozen will still have their funds intact, but won't be able to move them. After an investigation is performed the account can be unfrozen (by democratic vote in the blockchain).

The Code: The code will be publicly available in the blockchain and can be checked an audited by everyone. (Something that can't be done with our current wallet unless you understand the code you're looking at.) You could read the entire code in less than 10 minutes. That's something you wouldn't be able to do with the current code, if at all. This will increase economic trust in Karma substantially, which is exactly what Karma needs right now.

Wallet: Already done

Blockchain explorer: Already done

Swap: No. Too much "bad" Karma. This is a fresh start. We all have Karma. Some of us have lots of Karma (like myself) and don't really want to lose it. But we also must think about the big picture and how performing a swap might severely hurt (or kill) Karma in future as those stolen coins are also swapped with the good ones.

Everyone here will have a chance to buy Karma before everyone else catches on to it. (But the release will be publicly-announced here. And everyone will have an opportunity to buy cheap coins and make up for their losses. Current market cap at which buyers can be found is about $2,000,000. And that's without adding any value. The new market cap will start out at about $300,000 with plenty of room for growth. To the MOON!)

New Thread: On the way.

One last note An interesting tidbit.. as the value of Ethereum rises, so does Karma! As more and more companies like Toyota, Microsoft, governments like Singapore and Russia, and banks like JP Morgan buy up ethereum for their services, the price will increase. (That's the #1 driver of the price of Ethereum the past year, which has seen an increase of about 30x. Another 30x? 1 trillion dollars in value. That's something that would help Karma tremendously. As more funds shift to ETH, more people would be willing to speculate in Karma because it will be priced in ETH)

By the way.. good karma always comes back!

[bitwho]

Hey nice. 8s, hehe i see what you did there. good luck.

Since you don't have intention to rivive this coin anymore and are completely doing something else i would suggest you to open an other thread. This is karma x11

i would also suggest you move on into bitcoin block chain. it will last long and stronger. you can user counterpart or other smarter chain on top of it. just a suggestion.

cheers