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JohnnyBTCSeed
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February 16, 2016, 03:39:06 PM |
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I cant believe I am agreeing with you stout. But NXT is def in its death throes. It's best feature has been the AE, and now the community wants to kick those supporters in the balls by redesigning the system and crashing the AE. Thanks guys way to increase adoption. Of course this is immediately right after kicking the third party developers in the balls. tLDR, supporting NXT will get you kicked in the balls Seems like the fashion these days is to try and copy ethereum. Nxt sell by date was 2014. People moved on.
Well, as far as I know there's only one ETH copy. That's pretty far from fashion. BTW NXT is still far better than ETH, because of it's working and have a usable GUI  . Also, with NXT you don't need a degree from programming and nuclear physics to make a transaction or create an asset . Fud. Nxt has such a tiny market cap it is useless for anything serious on this point alone How do you explain the lack of progress in so many years? |
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"There should not be any signed int. If you've found a signed int
somewhere, please tell me (within the next 25 years please) and I'll
change it to unsigned int." -- Satoshi
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JohnnyBTCSeed
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February 16, 2016, 03:59:03 PM |
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Correct crashes are healthy in a free market. Except this event isnt a Free Market event. This is literally turning the ecosystem on its head and saying good luck. If this event happened every month then maybe i would agree with you but this hopefully is a one off event. The devs are causing the crash, how the fuck is that the Free Market? lurker10 To those who say that AE will die if asset holders are not rewarded fNXT. Crashes are healthy. Crashes are a feature of the free market, they help purge poorly performing assets from the system. Printing more money and bailing out dead companies is exactly what has pushed the world to the abyss of economic collapse. No, AE will not be dead if some users decide to dump some of the assets. The assets that are already dead will be purged, the healthy assets will stay and carry on, some will be re-priced. Keeping false hopes for assets that are already dead is childish and weakens the economy of NXT. Quote from: yassin54 on Today at 10:47:36 am sorry more technical for me, just help this man , i hope  No problem, I was just explaining why his proposal is unsound. |
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JohnnyBTCSeed
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February 16, 2016, 04:08:17 PM
Last edit: May 17, 2016, 02:24:59 PM by JohnnyBTCSeed |
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No What i am saying is if you are willing to give nxt supports a say in the system by giving them fnxt, then why are you ignoring the other supporters, the ones who have their nxt tied up in assets. This isnt socialism asshole but me and others wanting to find a way to not dump the value of the nxt ae system during the reboot. Im not out there with my begging cup trying to get free money, im trying to provide a fair solution for everyone. And notice i never said all nxt assets need be compensated. Again nxt reboot is not some type of normal free market action. Quote from: TheCoinWizard on Today at 10:30:27 am Hahaha  That's about the stupiest thing I've read in a long time If you follow global economic news, this sort of socialist proposals are voiced all the time, coming from all countries. Give money to this group, bail out that group. Privatizing profits from assets, socializing losses by taxing everyone to share their fNXT. The next one will be to print more NXT to prop the AE market as they do with stock markets everywhere |
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JohnnyBTCSeed
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February 16, 2016, 04:16:10 PM |
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@cassius.
I also now agree about burning nxt as the only solution, provided its allowed to also burn assets to get fnxt.
And one more time. If the nxt ae is like a full bucket of water, by leaving out the assets for redemtion in addition to nxt, its no different then you kicking a hole in the side of the bucket and watching it drain then saying it was the free market that did it.
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kiklo
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Activity: 1092
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February 16, 2016, 04:28:51 PM |
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This does highlight one major problem with running on top of another platform like Nxt or supernet. What happens when they decide , that they no longer wish to support that platform or make changes that impact what you have built on their platform. Seems to me , that their should be some legal contracts that Nxt should sign which guarantee a certain level of support & participation for a specified amount of time before anyone should even consider creating something that depends on Nxt, also in that contact it should state the penalty if they refuse or fail to meet the agreed on requirements. Without such a contract, creating anything on their platform is the same as playing a lottery, odds are you will lose.   |
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habraken
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February 16, 2016, 05:25:12 PM |
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This does highlight one major problem with running on top of another platform like Nxt or supernet. What happens when they decide , that they no longer wish to support that platform or make changes that impact what you have built on their platform. Seems to me , that their should be some legal contracts that Nxt should sign which guarantee a certain level of support & participation for a specified amount of time before anyone should even consider creating something that depends on Nxt, also in that contact it should state the penalty if they refuse or fail to meet the agreed on requirements. Without such a contract, creating anything on their platform is the same as playing a lottery, odds are you will lose. Who would sign the contract on behalf of NXT? It's not a corporate crypto, but decentralized, with some of the devs anonymous  One of the few (or only?) top-10 cryptoplatforms around that's not actually owned by a bank or a venture capitalist... |
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JohnnyBTCSeed
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February 16, 2016, 06:52:12 PM |
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This plan will either make or break nxt. = in its death throes. (Of course could always rise from the ashes) The reasoning behind the tech and the scaling is brilliant, but if the distribution of fnxt is fucked then well confidence is lost on nxt. And any business worth its salt will do the due dilligance to research what they are getting into. In order for it to work it needs to be fair to all. Statements like only certain "active" accounts will get benefit is the most socialist thing ever. Add in the confidence that a business will need to use a nxt side chain, but the tech is never in their control and they must assume that the developers will always make the right decisions, not break api, not deflate assets, not break other stuff. Makes this a confidence game. Despite the excellent tech, Nxt needs people/ businesses to use it. Ie they need confidence in the system. But the confidence in the system doesnt get built from actions that continually are perceived as unfair. And if the solution is that well the ae is going to take a hit but hey thats life. How does that build confidence in nxt? Why would a business want to invest time/money into this? (Edit, i started off nice, then got pissed from some disrespectful nxt forum members, maybe that doesnt exscuse my attitude but im only human here, i am better now after a walk to calm down) the complete proposal is here: https://nxtforum.org/core-development-discussion/nxt-2-0-design/important to note is that this is an ongoing discussionthe proposal has up and downsides. i agree that the asset market would take a hit, but i think that most likely only the bad assets would not recover. solid projects would. i'm not happy with it at all either. if anyone has any ideas on how to make a transition 'fair', please go ahead and suggest. one thing i would completely disagree with is that nxt is in its 'death throes'. the proposal is there to keep nxt on the forefront of technology, thus to ensure its future. the proposal will enable scalability (and flexability) other cryptos are only dreaming of. to grasp the importance just take a look at the current bitcoin discussion about 1mb/2mb blocks. i personally think that the dev team is not taking the needs of nxt users into consideration enough. this also goes in line with the API changes for no good reason. these problems have been there in the past and i think there was a 'mediation' job for a while to better communicate things. if i'm not mistaken that position is currently vacant and it would be a good suggestion to fill that spot again with someone capable. the positive side of this is that nxt core development has been going at an amazing pace. features have been added frequently, just recently coin shuffling, data cloud etc etc. i think fatalism, like yours johnny, doesn't help at all. instead we need to discuss. and yes i read your idea and it has been cross posted on the nxtforum for others to read. |
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kiklo
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February 16, 2016, 09:22:38 PM |
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This does highlight one major problem with running on top of another platform like Nxt or supernet. What happens when they decide , that they no longer wish to support that platform or make changes that impact what you have built on their platform. Seems to me , that their should be some legal contracts that Nxt should sign which guarantee a certain level of support & participation for a specified amount of time before anyone should even consider creating something that depends on Nxt, also in that contract it should state the penalty if they refuse or fail to meet the agreed on requirements. Without such a contract, creating anything on their platform is the same as playing a lottery, odds are you will lose. Who would sign the contract on behalf of NXT? It's not a corporate crypto, but decentralized, with some of the devs anonymous One of the few (or only?) top-10 cryptoplatforms around that's not actually owned by a bank or a venture capitalist... Either a Dev that is public or they would have to setup a non profit organization. Otherwise you just spending money to promote your Nxt asset without any guarantees the Nxt Devs won't crush it whenever the mood strikes. IMO, NXT is not truly decentralized. |
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habraken
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February 17, 2016, 06:32:41 AM |
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This does highlight one major problem with running on top of another platform like Nxt or supernet. What happens when they decide , that they no longer wish to support that platform or make changes that impact what you have built on their platform. Seems to me , that their should be some legal contracts that Nxt should sign which guarantee a certain level of support & participation for a specified amount of time before anyone should even consider creating something that depends on Nxt, also in that contract it should state the penalty if they refuse or fail to meet the agreed on requirements. Without such a contract, creating anything on their platform is the same as playing a lottery, odds are you will lose. Who would sign the contract on behalf of NXT? It's not a corporate crypto, but decentralized, with some of the devs anonymous One of the few (or only?) top-10 cryptoplatforms around that's not actually owned by a bank or a venture capitalist... Either a Dev that is public or they would have to setup a non profit organization. Otherwise you just spending money to promote your Nxt asset without any guarantees the Nxt Devs won't crush it whenever the mood strikes. IMO, NXT is not truly decentralized. Neither dev nor foundation would have control over open source NXT. Of course there's some lead developers, but even those can be replaced if the community decides to install and use another NXT version by other developers. There have been several 'official' NXT websites in the past. It's the same with BTC. Who would you sign a contract with that promises never to change BTC in a way that would hurt your bitcoin-business? Impossible, because it IS decentralized |
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kiklo
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February 17, 2016, 07:33:27 AM
Last edit: February 17, 2016, 07:55:18 AM by kiklo |
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Impossible, because it IS decentralized Ok, I have a question for you. In a truly decentralized coin , if the majority of users refuse to upgrade, they can keep the coin on the original fork no matter what updates are pushed out by the devs. (This is because the majority all keep their own copy of the blockchain & Full Wallet Software on their system.)(Most Nxt users only use the web site and never even download the blockchain, therefore whoever hosts that software can update them at will.)Can the Nxt community refuse to install the updates and block these changes that the majority seem against or due to the fact most of them only have a pass phrase stored on their pc and not the actual block chain be swept up in this update whether they like it or not? FYI: In my opinion, technically it is possible for Nxt to be decentralized,
however due to way , it was setup to try and make things easier has caused there to be a centralization of control.
Just as we can say BTC may be decentralized, any BTC stored on an exchange has a centralized control of whoever runs the exchange, and as a user of that exchange , I gave up my rights for ease of use. As they can now update their wallet or even steal my coins without my approval (Cryptsy for a recent example).
By the Majority of Nxt users taking the easy way out and not fully downloading the blockchains with the complete wallet software, they have in fact centralized control of Nxt to whomever controls that web site they access, since it hosts the wallet software and the blockchain. |
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LiQio
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February 17, 2016, 07:54:24 AM |
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Impossible, because it IS decentralized Ok, I have a question for you. In a truly decentralized coin , if the majority of users refuse to upgrade, they can keep the coin on the original fork no matter what updates are pushed out by the devs. (This is because the majority all keep their own copy of the blockchain & Full Wallet Software on their system.)(Most Nxt users only use the web site and never even download the blockchain, therefore whoever hosts that software can update them at will.)Can the Nxt community refuse to install the updates and block these changes that the majority seem against or due to the fact most of them only have a pass phrase stored on their pc and not the actual block chain be swept up in this update whether they like it or not? FYI: In my opinion, technically it is possible for Nxt to be decentralized,
however due to way , it was setup to try and make things easier has caused there to be a centralization of control.
Just as we can say BTC may be decentralized, any BTC stored on an exchange has a centralized control of whoever runs the exchange, and as a user of that exchange , I gave up my rights for ease of use. As they can now update their wallet or even steal my coins without my approval (Cryptsy for a recent example).
By Nxt users taking the easy way out and not fully downloading the blockchains with the complete wallet software, they have in fact centralized control of Nxt to whomever controls that web site they access, since it hosts the wallet software and the blockchain. Which website are you talking about? Please give me a percentage for "most". |
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kiklo
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February 17, 2016, 08:13:38 AM
Last edit: February 17, 2016, 08:31:28 AM by kiklo |
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Which website are you talking about?
Please give me a percentage for "most".
Here is one https://wallet.mynxt.info/If you want #s you have to contact whomever is running the site. In your opinion: Can the Nxt community refuse to install the updates and block these changes that the majority seem against. Also could someone else start a new github and take control away from the devs if the majority wanted it so. To me those things would be proof nxt is decentralized and not controlled by the devs. FYI: 1 other point of interest, Nxt does not store your wallet on the local PC. This seems to centralize the wallet away from the individual user, at least from an upgrade perspective, and that is why you would be unable to block them from updating your wallet, IMO. Therefore creating the centralizing control. http://nxtcoin.wikia.com/wiki/FAQWhere is my wallet?
Unlike Bitcoin or other altcoins, there is no wallet with Nxt. More specifically, the coin uses a "brain wallet", which is to say that wallets are decentralized and kept on the network. When you create an account in Nxt, your secret passphrase is used to create your account number. Once your account number is generated, you can unlock it and access it by using your passphrase on any running Nxt node.
Can I access my wallet from another computer?
Yes! There is no wallet file in Nxt because all of the accounts are stored on the network. This is referred to as a "brain wallet". This means your account can be accessed from anywhere... but it also emphasizes the importance of using a strong passphrase, since the passphrase is the only thing that protects your coins from being accessed by others. (This authorization mechanism might be rewritten / updated / strengthened later) |
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LiQio
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February 17, 2016, 08:31:23 AM |
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Which website are you talking about?
Please give me a percentage for "most".
Here is one https://wallet.mynxt.info/If you want #s you have to contact whomever is running the site. In your opinion: Can the Nxt community refuse to install the updates and block these changes that the majority seem against. Also could someone else start a new github and take control away from the devs if the majority wanted it so. To me those things would be proof nxt is decentralized and not controlled by the devs. I won't comment on the web wallet because it's plain speculation and could also be said about bitcoin (e.g. blockchain.info) (Personally I really doubt it for both cases) Not in my opinion, but fact: - yes, if you run your own client, you alone decide whether you want to update or not - yes, why not, it's open sourced code ( https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src, also delivered/packaged with every release btw.) As for the brainwallet approach, why would your passphrase not work should a fork arise? |
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kiklo
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February 17, 2016, 08:41:09 AM |
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I won't comment on the web wallet because it's plain speculation and could also be said about bitcoin (e.g. blockchain.info) (Personally I really doubt it for both cases) Not in my opinion, but fact: - yes, if you run your own client, you alone decide whether you want to update or not - yes, why not, it's open sourced code ( https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src, also delivered/packaged with every release btw.) As for the brainwallet approach, why would your passphrase not work should a fork arise? The Brain wallets will have to update, with the network since the user only controls access to it not the actual data itself. That is why Nxt users can't just block the update like a normal decentralized coin, and what keeps it from being truly decentralized. I mean think about it , the wallet data is centralized across the network , not stored locally. Sorry, Nxt is not decentralized. |
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Richard1972x
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★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice
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February 17, 2016, 08:42:50 AM |
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One question: Is Lior Yaffe the realname of Nxt developer Jean-Luc?
I have read a nice article about him in Bitcoin Wednesday.
Many thanks in advance
Richi
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LiQio
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February 17, 2016, 08:44:53 AM |
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I won't comment on the web wallet because it's plain speculation and could also be said about bitcoin (e.g. blockchain.info) (Personally I really doubt it for both cases) Not in my opinion, but fact: - yes, if you run your own client, you alone decide whether you want to update or not - yes, why not, it's open sourced code ( https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src, also delivered/packaged with every release btw.) As for the brainwallet approach, why would your passphrase not work should a fork arise? The Brain wallets will have to update, with the network since the user only controls access to it not the actual data itself. That is why Nxt users can't just block the update like a normal decentralized coin, and what keeps it from being truly decentralized. I mean think about it , the wallet data is centralized across the network , not stored locally. Sorry, Nxt is not decentralized. And a wallet.dat file doesn't need to be updated if there are corresponding protocol changes (that influence the handling of it)? |
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kiklo
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February 17, 2016, 08:57:31 AM |
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And a wallet.dat file doesn't need to be updated if there are corresponding protocol changes (that influence the handling of it)?
Nxt does not have a wallet.dat , ergo the centralization of the brain wallet with a passphrase. Fine, we will just agree to disagree. And let Time sort out who was right. Later, |
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LiQio
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February 17, 2016, 09:03:17 AM |
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And a wallet.dat file doesn't need to be updated if there are corresponding protocol changes (that influence the handling of it)?
Nxt does not have a wallet.dat , ergo the centralization of the brain wallet with a passphrase. Fine, we will just agree to disagree. And let Time sort out who was right. Later, I don't think it's about disagreeing. It seems to me, that you don't really understand what you are talking about. Coupled with the dozens of emoticons you post, you could also qualify for the category "troll". Time doesn't need to sort out who's right - you are wrong. |
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kiklo
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February 17, 2016, 09:07:07 AM |
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I don't think it's about disagreeing. It seems to me, that you don't really understand what you are talking about.
Coupled with the dozens of emoticons you post, you could also qualify for the category "troll".
Time doesn't need to sort out who's right - you are wrong.
A troll would keep arguing with you, I stated my opinion, and you stated yours. Finite. |
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sadface
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February 17, 2016, 12:21:23 PM |
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One question: Is Lior Yaffe the realname of Nxt developer Jean-Luc?
I have read a nice article about him in Bitcoin Wednesday.
Many thanks in advance
Richi
i think that is 'Riker', also part of the dev team. i think his previous nick was something like 'lyaffe'. he recently changed his nick on the nxtforum to go in line with jean-luc, in a star trek sense jean-luc is anonymous as far as i know. |
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