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[barabbas]

snip

You just did, fucking idiot!!    

Why would I ignore you?  You wish, pal, you amuse me just enough to say anything about it.
I deserve everything I get?  Totally agree, dude!!!  I ask for it too, wholeheartedly!!  
... and boy, have I been getting what I deserve this year, I want more of what I deserve!!! XD
I also don't expect NXT to make me a fortune but I do like the technology.

Like many other currencies has its pros and cons but I share the vision of the developers.
Everyone has different goals, different purposes, why must you crap on others who do?
Easy to procrastinate only need to open your mouth, hard work is required to create.
All you create here is FUD.... and annoying.  If others sell their investments, so be it, it's a fact of investing.

You get what you deserve too, it's not just a one way street... maybe in your liberal utopia you can but in real world, you can't.

I ask for it, you want others to get it... I wonder where karma will strike first.

I both amuse and annoy you? hey, everyone should choose the tortures they like.

And wonder no more, karma could strike. Or not. But in that particular lottery, you, by betting on this project, carry most of the tickets. I'll try to help you and other converts by continue posting the criticism about greed and pretensions of this team, for others to consider while they make their decision and for you to be amused and annoyed... it seems to be the flavor you like. And I will continue trading this crap also, as I have been... not that either of us gives a flying fuck about what the other's interests, which makes this conversation all together absurd, therefore I'm putting an end to it. Happy trails.

[barabbas]

@barrabas: Don't worry, I've so far only invested less than 1 USD in the whole NXT/ARDOR complex. So I won't get burned

Chain can be "private" only if it tokens are not in free market, I mean you cannot use chain, if you don't own its tokens. But technically it will be public in Ardor platform, also bundlers of this chain has to pay ARDR in odrer chain transactions to be included in the main chain.

Ah, now I understand. Thanks for clarification. What I doubted were "private" chains in the sense of "undetectable" or "encrypted", that only can be "seen" (=read) by the members of the organization/consortium - that should not be possible with the current Ardor concept (if they didn't add some kind of private childchainblock transaction ...).

And yes, it was said many times publicly by devs, that at the beginning, creating child chains will be manual, by devs and it will be paid service. Ability to create child chain without devs is planned for late 2018 or 2019. Of course there will be a fee for this, but this fee will go to ARDR forgers.

Yes, but I had in mind that "user child chain creation" was scheduled for early 2018. Now it's in the "research project" category. That's a change I don't like particularly because it smells a bit like vapourware.

And here is a proposal of new JPL license by Jelurida: https://www.jelurida.com/jelurida-public-license

Yes. I hate this license and it seems they have ignored all my arguments against it and in favour to use a standard open source license like the GPL. It is PROPRIETARY CRAP and will NEVER become the standard in cryptocurrencies. And dumb greedy short-sighted "investors" (=pump-and-dumpers) even are applauding this CRAP.

Sorry, I really seldom be that clear, but this license deserves all the insults.

Just to add for clarification: There will be totally private chains, with private tokens. And they will of course use the network and pay (minimal) fees for it. If they are successful, hundreds, thousands of them. You will carry them but you will get just very little crumbs while the big money goes... well, you know.

Your right assessment regarding the license, doesn't need any further explanation, it speaks for itself.

[martismartis]

Child chain bundlers will pay hardcoded fee in ARDR, not less. Which big money and where will they go?

FUD again by barrabas.

[habraken]

Just put the guy on ignore. He's probably a paid troll.

[wlefever]

When does the NXT snapshot take place for IGNIS and did we ever get confirmation that Poloniex will honor the snapshot for NXT holders?

I've been away too long and can't find the answer.  Thanks.

[seek4dream]

another question: when will the ARDR token be transferred into ARDR coin? Will there be any snapshot for that?

[habraken]

Just read https://www.jelurida.com/ico since it's updated.

[seek4dream]

Just read https://www.jelurida.com/ico since it's updated.

Thanks. I found this from the article:
ARDR distribution
The ARDR coin distribution will be 100% based on ARDR asset balances from the Nxt blockchain, in 1:1 ratio, with each user account automatically receiving the same number of ARDR coins on the Ardor platform as the number of ARDR tokens they have at the time of the snapshot.
What is Ardor platform?

[martismartis]

Just read https://www.jelurida.com/ico since it's updated.

Thanks. I found this from the article:
ARDR distribution
The ARDR coin distribution will be 100% based on ARDR asset balances from the Nxt blockchain, in 1:1 ratio, with each user account automatically receiving the same number of ARDR coins on the Ardor platform as the number of ARDR tokens they have at the time of the snapshot.
What is Ardor platform?

www.ardorplatform.org
www.jelurida.com/resources

[barabbas]

Child chain bundlers will pay hardcoded fee in ARDR, not less. Which big money and where will they go?

FUD again by barrabas.

Which is crumbs, peanuts, next to nothing. Big money, in this case, is what Jelurida, the team, will charge private organizations for the chains and related services. All profits to them, crumbs to the carriers in the network.

FUD indeed, how convenient... But the ones that carry the network right now, including YOU, know exactly what I am talking about.

This is beyond belief greed. Beyond description unfair. But hey, it might work.... for them, Jelurida boys.

[The Catcher in the Rye]

Does anyone know if Poloniex will give us IGNIS if we hold NXT coins in the exchange?

[martismartis]

Barrabas, do you know how much Jelurida will charge private organizations for it service? How much is big? You should have some link to public information about how much Jelurida charge. Or you take things out of the blue sky again and post here as "facts"?

[barabbas]

Barrabas, do you know how much Jelurida will charge private organizations for it service? How much is big? You should have some link to public information about how much Jelurida charge. Or you take things out of the blue sky again and post here as "facts"?

I don't understand such a question. Hate to term it but it is simply stupid. It DOES NOT MATTER how much they charge. Any logical individual would assume that they will charge whatever the market allows, if there's a market for it. I know how much they charge for their services, everyone interested will know, but not many will because it is irrelevant. They started Jelurida, like any other individuals would do, to make as much profit as they can. THAT part is legitimate. What it isn't is to mount the whole business for themselves on the shoulders (network) of NXT/ARDOR holders. It is akin to Vitalik and his friends now coming with the upcoming upgrade of Ethereum, call it Delirium and say, but this is different so we will give every holder of ETH one DEL and there will be two. The main difference is that DEL will have the hybrid protocol of PoW/PoS. And then, in 2018, launching yet another token, ASSCOIN, this one exactly the same than the other two but full PoS protocol. In this case, Vitalik and friend would have set up a private company, for-profit one, and say, instead of giving you one for one, like before, this time it will be 1/2 for one and the other 1/2 we will do an ICO and 25% of it will go to this private company me and my friends have set up and the rest of the other 1/2 will go to... me, for future development, promo, etc. Get the picture now? Well, it gets better: Vitalik would say, from now on, we are going to charge, this company me and my friends have mounted, that is, is going to charge for every private use of our code, which will be private and sold for profit ... profit for me and my fiends enterprise. You, nothing. The gas. You just keep maintaining the network. But do not worry, your compensation will come with the usage that will be much improved since we are going to sell the shit out of our code, software and services. Lots of crumbs for you.

Well, that is what these greedy geniuses have drawn for themselves.

But you, very stupidly I'm afraid, ask for links to their prices... One has to see this to believe it, really. Wow.

[martismartis]

That's was your statement: "Big money, in this case, is what Jelurida, the team, will charge private organizations for the chains and related services."
 So if you say that, then you know exactly. Otherwise it's another FUD

[barabbas]

For you everything is FUD. Think whatever you must, I could care less. Big money is what everyone on the planet -every enterprise able to sell it- charges those who purchase it, any kind of tech for private use. Thousand of multi-billion companies do that, everything from games to spreadsheets and everything in between. So these regrettably greedy individuals will get potentially tens, hundreds of millions of dollars. What does it matter if they charge 5, 50, 500, or 5 mill? it will depend on what the markets are willing to pay for it.

The point, once again, is that you, the holder of NXT/Ardor/Ignis, you get NOTHING and they get it all. On your shoulders. Not only because you have supported this project purchasing the coins/tokens and forging to strengthen the network, but because you continue being the backbone of the side products (or child chains) that they sell, FOR THEMSELVES, on the side. It is beyond greedy, beyond unethical, beyond description. Only total idiots hoping for this to add value to their coins will support this. The overwhelming majority of anyone with a smidget of brains will put their efforts and their money in support of any of the many projects already in existence -and many more to come- that will FAIRLY distribute their future profits, ALL their future profits, in a manner that is ethical and FAIR.

But you know that very well already. So do the ones that, like you, will continue on the boat. Well, you all deserve what's coming to you. Don't expect any sympathies. 

[martismartis]

Barrabas, yes you are fudding. Here si some information for you, taken from https://www.jelurida.com/ardor-blockchain-platform-design :

6. Implementation phases
The full roll-out of the Nxt 2.0 / Ardor design will not happen all in a single step, but as common in large software projects is planned to be implemented in several phases.

A. First, a system consisting of the forging chain and a few hard-coded child chains will be created. This has already been achieved on the public Ardor testnet, and a production launch is planned for Q3 2017. Each child chain is using its own native token, and child chain transactions are bundled in ChildChainBlock transactions on the forging chain. However, while future pruning of these transactions is possible, it is not yet implemented. As the system is just starting and total transaction count in the first few months after launch will be low, pruning is not yet really needed. Snapshot calculation and propagation are also not implemented, and since there is no pruning, all nodes store all child chain data in this phase.

B. Next, pruning, snapshot calculation, and snapshot propagation will be implemented. This functionality is expected to be on testnet in Q4 2017, and pushed to production in 2018. It will be then possible to prune child chain transactions, even retroactively those already submitted in phase A, because they are created as prunable by design. Each node will be storing the transactions of only the child chains the node owner is interested in, with archival nodes providing the service of making old transactions available for download by others. Child chain creation will still be a manual process.

C. Full automation of the child chain creation lifecycle. Users will be able to create their own child chains, without depending on the Jelurida development team. At this stage, we will have much better understanding of the actual needs of child chain creators, the resources a child chain consumes and parameters it needs defined, and thus will be able to automate the process by adding the required transaction types to make it all self-serve.

D. Advanced concepts of the so-called "transparent forging" design can be put in place, allowing reduction of block times and increase of transaction processing throughput based on prediction of next forger, penalty for forgers missing their turn to forge, sending of transactions directly to the forging hub of the next forger, and so on. Many of those potential improvements are only needed when there is a demand for high transaction processing capacity, but this demand can be satisfied only after the scalability and bloat reduction features have been provided by the prunable child chain design in the previous phases.

Take a look at the point C bolded part. How Jelurida will sell child chains? Do you have another information? Bring it on or stop fudding.

[akamy789]

I saw specific details of Ignis before ICO, but there was no specific time

[barabbas]

martismartis, I don't understand you, really. "The team" has not even pretended, since they announced the creation of Jelurida, a private (theirs) entirely for-profit company, for it to be anything but a wait to exploit, for their own benefit, the NEXT/ARDOR network. That bold expression of unmitigated greed, I have to give it to them, has always been in the open. From the very beginning of the scheme that was the announcement of Ardor. I am not going to waste my time digging posts of over a year ago stating, openly and clearly, that, after IGNIS, they would sell the childchains for profit and, when asked, they responded that the benefit for Ardor holders was the forging fees. After that and very recently, they have come with this other concept of "bundlers", which is a variation of the same thing and will be paid the same way. You prefer to believe that child chains will be free, hey, great, do so. You will find out soon enough.

We will also find out that this whole enchilada simply doesn't work and that it is, in reality, a poor man's copy of the Ethereum system -not protocol, system-. Because, as you know, anyone can launch his/her own token on top of Ethereum on a do-it-yourself basis. Cannot possibly be simpler. So what is it again that those child chains bring to the table? Nothing but a -by comparison- minimally supported network that will be clogged and hacked the moment anything moving any significant amount of money/traffic is put through it... if someone is crazy enough to try when they can do it in Ethereum, which is already stress tested (to the limit of clogging itself) and that has been implemented by projects moving millions of transactions and dollars. And that is still the crypto world ONLY, not any private organization, be it financial, commercial or any other kind in the real world. So count that, again, as what it is: A scheme to get quite a few million dollars in the pockets of "The Team", nothing else.

But I am not going to insist in the obvious points already stated many times. It won't work with the convinced, like yourself, and the rest that value their money have already enough information in this and other threads. Just to clarify one more time, "child chains" is an euphemism for "tokens", nothing else. And despite claims to the contrary, it remains to be seen the level of capacity and security that they can offer for, as the team confesses openly in your quoted test, they have no idea as to the amount of resources they will require, pruning or no pruning -which is another thing that would require quite a bit of an explanation to convince anyone with brains that it will offer the same level of security that the real thing-. But that will be for another thread or post and I am not even remotely interested in questioning something that will doom itself in real usage in a very short period of time.

[martismartis]

Barrabas, can't help you, really, if you read and can't understand what you read. And yes, do not waste your time here, please.

[MFatih]

Guys I don't understand what you talking about but just want to ask a question.
Do you think Nxt is going to break new record as price?