[ANN] RealCoin - Targeted to the IM world!

[3phase]

Eύχoμαι καλή επιτυχία Aντώνη, τo σχέδιo είναι μεγαλεπήβoλo, αλλά όπoιoς πρoσπαθεί δεν χάνει πoτέ.

Kαι, φιλικά, ελπίζω να έχεις γερό στoμάχι, γιατί με αυτά πoυ θα ακoύσεις εδώ πέρα μπoρεί να σoυ γυρίσoυν τα άντερα. H κoινότητα είναι εντελώς ελεύθερη, με όλα τα θετικά και τα αρνητικά πoυ φέρνει αυτό.

Nα' σαι καλά.

[Rejinx]

Eύχoμαι καλή επιτυχία Aντώνη, τo σχέδιo είναι μεγαλεπήβoλo, αλλά όπoιoς πρoσπαθεί δεν χάνει πoτέ.

Kαι, φιλικά, ελπίζω να έχεις γερό στoμάχι, γιατί με αυτά πoυ θα ακoύσεις εδώ πέρα μπoρεί να σoυ γυρίσoυν τα άντερα. H κoινότητα είναι εντελώς ελεύθερη, με όλα τα θετικά και τα αρνητικά πoυ φέρνει αυτό.

Nα' σαι καλά.

Tώρα με μεταφραστές στo διαδίκτυo, δεν αισθάνoμαι πλέoν μείνει έξω από αυτές τις συζητήσεις.

[TheGlobber]

Easier for the economy to start evolving than to start from point 0.

Also please remember that this is a P2P decentralized currency that will target the average user not the experienced. So something has to preexist for this to happen as most people wont have a clue what mining is and thats one of the reasons for mining through the official client. Everyone has to get his head around it. I know that all guys in here know what mining is and can mine (or at least a large percentage of the members in here).

But as you might have understood by now this is something that will target the average internet user so it needs to be as simple as possible in the beginning and RLC must already exist for people to immediately use instead of waiting for a number of coins to come slowly into circulation.

Also, as previously said, all the fiat currency will work as a "reserve" as well as funding. Without a number of RLC already in the market you cant have any of these two.

All these things will help the RLC network kick start.

Why same quantity? As said the RLC network should get up to speed with Bitcoin in the number of coins circulating because it will not focus on the actual production of the coins but the use of the coins.

What the point to premine exactly the same qty of coins as Bitcoin has now? Just to answer the question "Why have u premined so many coins"?

[TheGlobber]

Σ ευχαριστω πoλυ!

Hξερα απo την αρχη τι θα αντιμετωπισω. 

Eλπιζω να σε δω και στo RealCoin αν σoυ φανει καλη η ιδεα η τo βρεις χρησιμo και μην διστασεις να παραθεσεις την απoψη σoυ. Παντα χρειαζεται και λιγη κριτικη.. 

Eύχoμαι καλή επιτυχία Aντώνη, τo σχέδιo είναι μεγαλεπήβoλo, αλλά όπoιoς πρoσπαθεί δεν χάνει πoτέ.

Kαι, φιλικά, ελπίζω να έχεις γερό στoμάχι, γιατί με αυτά πoυ θα ακoύσεις εδώ πέρα μπoρεί να σoυ γυρίσoυν τα άντερα. H κoινότητα είναι εντελώς ελεύθερη, με όλα τα θετικά και τα αρνητικά πoυ φέρνει αυτό.

Nα' σαι καλά.

[3phase]

Eύχoμαι καλή επιτυχία Aντώνη, τo σχέδιo είναι μεγαλεπήβoλo, αλλά όπoιoς πρoσπαθεί δεν χάνει πoτέ.

Kαι, φιλικά, ελπίζω να έχεις γερό στoμάχι, γιατί με αυτά πoυ θα ακoύσεις εδώ πέρα μπoρεί να σoυ γυρίσoυν τα άντερα. H κoινότητα είναι εντελώς ελεύθερη, με όλα τα θετικά και τα αρνητικά πoυ φέρνει αυτό.

Nα' σαι καλά.

Tώρα με μεταφραστές στo διαδίκτυo, δεν αισθάνoμαι πλέoν μείνει έξω από αυτές τις συζητήσεις.

I altered the Greek text so that automatic translators will not work  From your response, reverse doesn't work either 

[TheGlobber]

TO ALL WHO HAVE POSTED OR BROWSED THIS THREAD EITHER THEY FOUND IT INTERESTING OR NOT

There is a difference that many people fail to recognize.

When it comes to Bitcoin's technology, i bow. Its marvelous. Its clever. Its everything you want if you want to have total control of your personal assets/life.

BUT there is a difference between Bitcoin and RealCoin nor in terms of technology (although there will be several new features and differences) neither in terms of the goal (all digital currencies have the goal to become the dominant means of transaction in today's global market) but in terms of the way this goal will be achieved.

Also you should acknowledge that there are differences in the way RealCoin will operate that might benefit Bitcoin in the future such as the "reserve", the "open source funding", the average user-friendly environment, the real world implementations and many more which have not yet been successfully introduced into the Bitcoin platform.

After all, you keep reposting in here, that it would be good to see alternatives because they will help Bitcoin evolve. Well an alternative can be different not only in terms of technology but in terms of usability, funtionality, services etc.

[jwzguy]

There is a difference that many people fail to recognize.

That's because you've only made vague assertions without any substance.

If any of these goals require an improvement on Bitcoin's existing technology (btw, they don't), you haven't pointed out what that improvement will be. So far, we just have a boatload of pre-mined coins...surely you realize this is a deterrent to investing any time or money into your alt chain, don't you?

[Schwede65]

yeah, we had deterrent examples in the past, the main point is the missing improvement of the bitcoin-code: ixc, i0c, clc...

just clones, copy and paste...

with tiny differences to bitcoin...

Why should we have it?

[genjix]

How r u going to protect ur *coin against attacks of guys like Luke Jr.? Read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56675.0 to know what could happen.

You can only mine using the official client on your CPU. The exact mechanism how this is done is kept secret for the time being and is pretty difficult to reverse engineer. This is only a temporary measure while the network is still small.

Below are some of the changes so far (the ones in the paragraph above have been removed).

Code:

* 08dee54 (HEAD, origin/realcoin, realcoin) Fixed copyright header to refer to Bitcoin developers (oops sed)
* 94637b1 Change magic value.
* 3044b1d CheckBlock checks were backwards
* f407a79 Added rackspace bootstrap server.
* 649df8d Added additional stats to overview page.
* 2940f66 RPC use string long ints instead of floats.
* 827dda1 Revamped overview page to look much better and show number of connections.
* ae43829 Check for updates every 30 seconds from realcoin.org/check-updates
* 4a0f342 Regenerated icon using handy bash script.
* 1783c89 Amended Copyright notice on About dialog.
* 36e8100 Realcoin icons + branding.
* 4315cec Set Generate -> Mine Realcoins
* 1a33f18 Spelling correction: window -> windows.
* c6c0df5 Option to enable or disable mining [default=ON]
* 2af1c42 Added work around to skip genesis block in CheckProofOfWork which was getting triggered when loading blockchain.
* 6c385be Use a single IRC channel for bootstrap.
* 526f45b New genesis block on custom chain.
* 27f2be3 RTC -> RLC
* 50e427a RPC port 8332 -> 4668
* 0cd647f port 8333 -> 4667
* 4a0efb1 BTC -> RTC
* 8dc89e0 GUI hooks for notify-updates
* 85cc454 BQt build system modifications for notify.
* 574f19c NotifyUpdates checking periodically for "message" json from server.
* 1c07a90 Checkpoints unit test.
* 6b787a0 Replaced bootstrap DNS seed nodes with own.
* d73bc0e alerts are disabled.
* 71ba908 Removed checkpoints. Had to patch bitcoin bug.
* c0034fe bitcoin -> realcoin

[the joint]

I'm not sure if people have realized this yet, but RealCoin is attempting to offer an idea so simple, so basic, and yet so NEEDED that can't be found anywhere in Bitcoin:

A client/miner rolled into one.

Now, assuming LTC already acts as a counterpart to Bitcoin (I'm not sure to what extent this is true, I've never dabbled in LTC) then Real Coin really doesn't serve much of a purpose in my opinion.

Why don't you get in touch with Gavin to implement an automatic miner in the Bitcoin client?

My conclusion:  Slightly misdirected focus on the needs of the growing digital currency market, but your ideas are DESPERATELY needed elsewhere.

Edit:  If you can work with Gavin to create a client/miner/AND exchange account rolled into one, that'd be even better   

[TheGlobber]

This thread was started as a prelaunch.

As soon as the client is out then we can get down to discussing details,plans, strategies etc. since right now there is nothing we can hang on to. A little patience till the 27th and we can move on from there.

There is a difference that many people fail to recognize.

That's because you've only made vague assertions without any substance.

If any of these goals require an improvement on Bitcoin's existing technology (btw, they don't), you haven't pointed out what that improvement will be. So far, we just have a boatload of pre-mined coins...surely you realize this is a deterrent to investing any time or money into your alt chain, don't you?

[DeathAndTaxes]

I'm not sure if people have realized this yet, but RealCoin is attempting to offer an idea so simple, so basic, and yet so NEEDED that can't be found anywhere in Bitcoin:

A client/miner rolled into one.

That is the last thing Bitcoin needs.

How many people use VISA?
How many people run VISA processing servers?

The idea that you need to mine to use a currency is silly.

How many people use dollars?
How many people are involved in dollar production? (everything from design, production, distribution, replacement, counterfeit detection, armored cars, etc)

How many people buy Gold?
How many people mine their own gold?

Like any other industry over time mining will only become more competitive.

[the joint]

I'm not sure if people have realized this yet, but RealCoin is attempting to offer an idea so simple, so basic, and yet so NEEDED that can't be found anywhere in Bitcoin:

A client/miner rolled into one.

That is the last thing Bitcoin needs.

How many people use VISA?
How many people run VISA processing servers?

The idea that you need to mine to use a currency is silly.

How many people use dollars?
How many people are involved in dollar production? (everything from design, production, distribution, replacement, counterfeit detection, armored cars, etc)

How many people buy Gold?
How many people mine their own gold?

Like any other industry over time mining will only become more competitive.

It's not a matter of how many people use it, it's a matter of fair distribution with a deflationary currency.

Hoarding WILL be an issue if a huge influx of users ever arrives at some point, driving both demand and prices up.

The shifting of the decimal will be easier the more evenly distributed the currency becomes.  Many people are very weary of buying BTC in general.  A client/miner will allow the average Joe to download a simple program and start earning some BTC.  Obviously there are tons of scenarios that could potentially unfold, but a deflationary bubble is a very real possibility.  I think one of the best means of counteracting a deflationary bubble is to widely distribute the currency in it's early stages.

In my opinion, the problem has already been confounded by the premature implementation of GPU mining.

[DeathAndTaxes]

It's not a matter of how many people use it, it's a matter of fair distribution with a deflationary currency.

Hoarding WILL be an issue if a huge influx of users ever arrives at some point, driving both demand and prices up.

The shifting of the decimal will be easier the more evenly distributed the currency becomes.  Many people are very weary of buying BTC in general.  A client/miner will allow the average Joe to download a simple program and start earning some BTC.  Obviously there are tons of scenarios that could potentially unfold, but a deflationary bubble is a very real possibility.  I think one of the best means of counteracting a deflationary bubble is to widely distribute the currency in it's early stages.

That is silly.  Mining is buying coins.  You are buying them by electricity, risk, depreciating capital equipment, and skill.

Most computers can't mine, most cases are ill suited for mining, many users have inefficient systems and high electrical costs.  Users killing their computers, mining $100 in BTC using $300 in electricity, or blowing circuit breakers isn't likely to increase adoption.

Not sure where you get the idea that more mining would reduce hoarding.  You can buy coins today on the exchanges.  That is proof that coins are available for sale.

[the joint]

It's not a matter of how many people use it, it's a matter of fair distribution with a deflationary currency.

Hoarding WILL be an issue if a huge influx of users ever arrives at some point, driving both demand and prices up.

The shifting of the decimal will be easier the more evenly distributed the currency becomes.  Many people are very weary of buying BTC in general.  A client/miner will allow the average Joe to download a simple program and start earning some BTC.  Obviously there are tons of scenarios that could potentially unfold, but a deflationary bubble is a very real possibility.  I think one of the best means of counteracting a deflationary bubble is to widely distribute the currency in it's early stages.

That is silly.  Mining is buying coins.  You are buying them by electricity, risk, depreciating capital equipment, and skill.

Most computers can't mine, most cases are ill suited for mining, many users have inefficient systems and high electrical costs.  Users killing their computers, mining $100 in BTC using $300 in electricity, or blowing circuit breakers isn't likely to increase adoption.

Not sure where you get the idea that more mining would reduce hoarding.  You can buy coins today on the exchanges.  That is proof that coins are available for sale.

Mining is not buying coins.  It is a bit like buying coins with a hardware hedge, but it is not buying them.  More miners also = increased network strength which is a benefit no matter how you look at it.

While it is true mining is impractical for many people, this is only true because of 1) aforementioned GPU arms race and 2) current price.  But if (when) a huge new influx of users arrives, demand and price will go up.  

I'm pulling figures out of nothing here, but lets say 1 BTC gets distributed to each of 2,000,000 new users/miners slowly.  It will be a lot better in terms of market stability if these 2,000,000 new users already had 1 BTC floating around in their account rather than if 2,000,000 new users scrambled to buy 1 BTC each all at once.  In the latter scenario there could be a supply problem with a greater incentive to hoard; in the former case there is none.

And yes, I realize this a vast oversimplification.  I'm isolating contexts hardcore.

[eleuthria]

I just want to know one thing about RLC(?) that makes it inherently different from BTC (and changing the mining algo/client interface does NOT count).

I don't care about project focus.  I don't care about premine.  Give me one good reason your ideas warrant the addition of yet another altcoin instead of focusing your efforts and building on top of bitcoin.  The growing hatred of altcoins is NOT because so far every single one has either been a joke or a get rich quick scheme.  It stems from the fact that so far not a single one has managed to do anything different from Bitcoin, and thus has been nothing but a waste of time and energy.

If your ideas are so good, work on building them on top of bitcoin.  If your ideas CANT be built on top of Bitcoin, tell us what those ideas are SPECIFICALLY, and address why it cannot be built upon the already existing technology.  Unless you can do those two things, then you've done absolutely nothing worthy of wasting space on this forum.

[2112]

A client/miner rolled into one.

That is the last thing Bitcoin needs.

Behold a leading member of mining cartel advising against mining!

What can we learn from such naked and emotional display of conflict of interest?

Maybe probing the circumstances why a miner was hidden in the default implementation of Bitcoin will allow us to understand this better?

Anyway, this is going to be a very interesting thread. The person(s) leading this project seem to be very calm and composed, completely unlike the RealSolid/CoinHunter who almost-singlehandedly hampered the adoption of SolidCoin v1 & v2.

Good luck to TheGlobber & genjix in their new joint venture.

[TheGlobber]

Thank you very much!

Looking forward to your review of the RLC and the services around it as soon as it launches as well as at a later stage.

A client/miner rolled into one.

That is the last thing Bitcoin needs.

Behold a leading member of mining cartel advising against mining!

What can we learn from such naked and emotional display of conflict of interest?

Maybe probing the circumstances why a miner was hidden in the default implementation of Bitcoin will allow us to understand this better?

Anyway, this is going to be a very interesting thread. The person(s) leading this project seem to be very calm and composed, completely unlike the RealSolid/CoinHunter who almost-singlehandedly hampered the adoption of SolidCoin v1 & v2.

Good luck to TheGlobber & genjix in their new joint venture.

[steelhouse]

I don't agree with the way you a distributing the coins with a faucet, a pre-mine, and an exchange.  The most fair blockchain right now is bitcoin, but even all the others are fair, they become fair as people use the coins in exchanges. As soon as one dollar is used in the exchange or service, the coin becomes fairer.  Mining is not a fair way to distribute coin.  Mining is not fair to the existing owners of coin.

Someguy is going to use the faucet to get more than his fair share of coins for free.  Thus, end the faucet.  You don't know what the coins are going to be worth so end the pre-mine.  An exchange is the most fair way to distribute coins, btc for rc.  You could use the existing bitcoin blockchain, but you using an exchange is the same thing and avoids the blockchain bloat. The fairest thing you can do is pre-mine all the coins. Then use an exchange to sell 10,000,000 coins at a fixed rate of 5,000 per btc.  Set the block reward at a permanent 1.
 

[drakahn]

closed source and massive premined? um, no thankyou but good luck i guess