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Author Topic: GLBSE 2.0 open for testing  (Read 47512 times)
2weiX
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January 24, 2012, 12:09:30 PM
 #21

Will it be possible to peg shares to the dollar?  I would very much like to see that feature.

What?
I think he means rather than having prices set in BTC, have them set in USD using mt.gox rates or something. So I would say "my shares cost $6," your site would check mtgox to see that the average-weighted price is (or something like that), and if anyone wanted to by my shares they would pay with $6 worth of BTC.

meh - i'd keep USD (or EUR or whatever else for that matter) out of it!


Should I ever choose to issue shares, I'd really like the idea to tie the price to the USD/EUR/GOLD/SILVER.
As my business is one of "Real Life", I would probably issue shares to raise funds to pay for programming, marketing - maybe even to stock up on some goods.

So if I sell 1000 @ 1 and the BTC/USD goes to shit, I'm  ahead - but what about my investors?
And if the BTC/USD rises, stocks become "cheaper", thus more attractive to trade.

All the while, if you would want to trade the BTC/USD, investing on GLBSE is not the way to do it, so there's no reason not to take some variance out of it, imho.

Maybe I would even like to have each "share" represent an ounce of silver/BTC?

Of course I could (well I coulnd't, but someone could) build a bot to calculate the current NAV of the share and place orders accordingly, but I think this feature would be worthwile for a lot of people, especiall if it's supported directly from the exchange.

just my 0.00000002



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kronosvl
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January 24, 2012, 01:11:42 PM
 #22


Should I ever choose to issue shares, I'd really like the idea to tie the price to the USD/EUR/GOLD/SILVER.

I'm assuming you are talking about IPO, because after that it's just supply and demand for a proper price.

Personally I'm against something like that. An automatic converter to display additional information (value in $ based on current price) is ok but other than that in my opinion this should remain in BTC

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2weiX
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January 24, 2012, 03:24:54 PM
 #23


Should I ever choose to issue shares, I'd really like the idea to tie the price to the USD/EUR/GOLD/SILVER.

I'm assuming you are talking about IPO, because after that it's just supply and demand for a proper price.

Personally I'm against something like that. An automatic converter to display additional information (value in $ based on current price) is ok but other than that in my opinion this should remain in BTC

I measure both my profits and my loss in USD (preferrably EUR, but USD will do).
Thus, it only makes sense to me to raise USD and pay dividends in USD.

Of course, the shares would be traded in BTC and dividends would be paid in BTC, but always in relation to my profit in USD.

So if I IPO 1000 shares at 2$, I would always buy them back at 1.50$ (just sayin').
I would almost never be able to buy them back for 1BTC when the USD/BTC goes to, say 20.

Let's say I make 500EUR profit, I distribute 10% of that over all the shares.
I go EURUSD/BTC -> GLBSE and everyone gets their fair share.

Also, shit like the LIF.xyz  are less likely to happen. Issuer sees he needs to buy back at 7 USD when having issued at 3 USD ---> takes a hike.

As much as most people dislike the Dollar and the Euro, they're still the measure by which to buy bread and pay rent.



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January 24, 2012, 06:46:47 PM
 #24

Will it be possible to peg shares to the dollar?  I would very much like to see that feature.

What?
I think he means rather than having prices set in BTC, have them set in USD using mt.gox rates or something. So I would say "my shares cost $6," your site would check mtgox to see that the average-weighted price is (or something like that), and if anyone wanted to by my shares they would pay with $6 worth of BTC.

meh - i'd keep USD (or EUR or whatever else for that matter) out of it!


Should I ever choose to issue shares, I'd really like the idea to tie the price to the USD/EUR/GOLD/SILVER.
As my business is one of "Real Life", I would probably issue shares to raise funds to pay for programming, marketing - maybe even to stock up on some goods.

So if I sell 1000 @ 1 and the BTC/USD goes to shit, I'm  ahead - but what about my investors?
And if the BTC/USD rises, stocks become "cheaper", thus more attractive to trade.

All the while, if you would want to trade the BTC/USD, investing on GLBSE is not the way to do it, so there's no reason not to take some variance out of it, imho.

Maybe I would even like to have each "share" represent an ounce of silver/BTC?

Of course I could (well I coulnd't, but someone could) build a bot to calculate the current NAV of the share and place orders accordingly, but I think this feature would be worthwile for a lot of people, especiall if it's supported directly from the exchange.

just my 0.00000002


I'll add the option of viewing assets and shares is various currencies based on the latest prices from various exchanges, but this feature wouldn't be at the top of my priority list though.

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January 24, 2012, 06:53:00 PM
 #25

However the mistake made was that we (at GLBSE) thought the issue was to provide an anonymous asset(stock) market/exchange, so thats what our time effort and money went into. What we should have been doing was building a market for people to raise capital for their business or idea in bitcoin, and make it as easy as possible for people to do that while trying to keep investors safe.

In the future if GLBSE takes off after this attempt, and we're profitable we'll put money into furthering privacy technologies, but we have to get profitable to do that, and it wasn't going to happen with the JavaScript client.

What will happen to GLBSE (v1) companies and shares for the move to v2?

[edited to fix unclosed quote]

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January 24, 2012, 09:59:41 PM
 #26

However the mistake made was that we (at GLBSE) thought the issue was to provide an anonymous asset(stock) market/exchange, so thats what our time effort and money went into. What we should have been doing was building a market for people to raise capital for their business or idea in bitcoin, and make it as easy as possible for people to do that while trying to keep investors safe.

In the future if GLBSE takes off after this attempt, and we're profitable we'll put money into furthering privacy technologies, but we have to get profitable to do that, and it wasn't going to happen with the JavaScript client.

What will happen to GLBSE (v1) companies and shares for the move to v2?


All assets and shares(that are alive, i.e. still trading, not scams) will be moved from GLBSE V1.0 => V2.0
All GLBSE V1.0 accounts will be migrated to to V2.0.

When the change over happens you'll go to your old GLBSE 1.0 account as normal, and the system will give you a code, pasting this into your GLBSE2.0 account will swap all your bitcoins and shares to your GLBSE 2.0 account.

Status of GLBSE 2.0,  working on basic graphs, validation for user input has been added(along with helpful error messages), a good number of bugs have been fixed and some UI improvements have been made as was suggested.

I'll be putting the updates to dev.glbse.com tomorrow, it will mean that any accounts and assets created will be deleted.

Thank you for your suggestions, bug hunting and input so far, I think it's made a real difference. Soon enough we'll have a stock exchange that is something we can all be proud of.

Nefario.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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January 25, 2012, 03:49:39 AM
 #27

In the U.S. a crowdfunding bill passed in the House of Representatives and is currently making its way (slowly) through the Senate.  Some who are familiar with the bill's backers are hoping to see it passed and enacted into law in March of this year.  Similar to how GLBSE works, a crowdfunding bill will allow for the first time in generations the ability for a company to offer equity to the general public.  Current restrictions limit the field of investors (other than friends and family) to only those that qualify as "accredited".

Unfortunately for most solo entrepreneurs and for small startups that are not already generating revenues the crowdfunding law will not help much.  The law, as has been proposed, will still require an expensive intermediary that would likely not even consider the types of micro startups that GLBSE can accommodate.

As a result, those in the U.S. that list under GLBSE by themselves (as U.S. entities) would likely still be violating securities laws by raising capital from the general public through GLBSE.  

Perhaps at some point (once specific listing and investing requirements are known after the law is passed) there would be the possibility of an intermediary listing with GLBSE companies from its portfolio to a set of investors that it has authorized -- for the purpose of enabling trade between members of the set of investors.  That doesn't do anything to help the would-be entrepreneurs left unserved by the crowdfunding bill though.

It is great to see the competition though.  Just like how Kickstarter and IndigGoGo found a workaround to the rigid securities law hopefully some smart cookies will figure out how to legally use GLBSE for crowdfunding in the U.S.  This exchange will probably be used from the U.S.regardless for the reasons including it serving a great need currently left unmet, by being small enough to fly under the regulators' radar and by operating in a manner that enforcement probably isn't motivated nor prepared to aggressively pursue.

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January 25, 2012, 09:26:50 AM
 #28

Thanks for the news SG, it's interesting how close the USGov is willing to go without going all the way. Another issue that will help GLBSE is that it's operations are not based inside the U.S., what will not help GLBSE is that we use a .com domain name, which the U.S. government has deemed enough to consider a website in it's jurisdiction.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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January 25, 2012, 04:09:53 PM
 #29

dev.glbse.com has been updated and it's DB wiped.

To everyone who used the feedback link to send in feedback I've saved each one, thanks in particular to Shnurkov who's given a huge amount of feedback and bug submissions.

Changes:
Added some input validation along with useful error messages for them.
Fixed a bug in the market matching engine.
Added basic charts for assets that have traded (e.g. http://dev.glbse.com/asset/view/TA)
Some small areas (e.g. clicking on the login form field will remove the hints)
Lots of bugs that were submitted

Coming next:
Volume charts
Nicer buttons
Usage hints and map keys spread around the site
Buy/sell order confirmation
Mail system redo
Markup system that doesn't pose security risks
Icons for shares


Thanks to everyone for testing, please have another go and let me know of any issues.

Nefario.

Currently

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teek
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January 25, 2012, 08:09:33 PM
 #30

Hi Nefario - Sign up page seems to be borked today / since the db reset.. 

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January 26, 2012, 09:48:54 AM
 #31

Hi Nefario - Sign up page seems to be borked today / since the db reset.. 

hoho, thanks for that, something obvious I missed  Tongue

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January 26, 2012, 09:58:32 AM
 #32

Thanks for the news SG, it's interesting how close the USGov is willing to go without going all the way. Another issue that will help GLBSE is that it's operations are not based inside the U.S., what will not help GLBSE is that we use a .com domain name, which the U.S. government has deemed enough to consider a website in it's jurisdiction.
Would migrating to something like a .me domain eliminate that liability?

Don't mix your coins someone said isn't legal
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January 26, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
 #33

Taken care of, again thanks for pointing that out. For some reason a couple of files were not committed with git. Git's not my favorite, feels a little clunky to me but how and ever.

Anyway, I've cleaned up the mail and messaging interface a little (still needs to be improved).

Nefario.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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January 26, 2012, 10:02:55 AM
 #34

Thanks for the news SG, it's interesting how close the USGov is willing to go without going all the way. Another issue that will help GLBSE is that it's operations are not based inside the U.S., what will not help GLBSE is that we use a .com domain name, which the U.S. government has deemed enough to consider a website in it's jurisdiction.
Would migrating to something like a .me domain eliminate that liability?

Not sure, it would have to be a domain that is not under control of a U.S. company. National domains would put us under control of another country so I'm not sure what's the best option.

For the moment GLBSE is ok, we're still quite small and hope to continue to be able to fly under the radar for the time being.

Nefario.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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January 26, 2012, 08:27:33 PM
 #35

Would migrating to something like a .me domain eliminate that liability?
Not sure, it would have to be a domain that is not under control of a U.S. company. National domains would put us under control of another country so I'm not sure what's the best option.
.bit would be ideal.

For the moment GLBSE is ok, we're still quite small and hope to continue to be able to fly under the radar for the time being.
+1

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January 26, 2012, 11:07:57 PM
 #36

Thanks for the news SG, it's interesting how close the USGov is willing to go without going all the way. Another issue that will help GLBSE is that it's operations are not based inside the U.S., what will not help GLBSE is that we use a .com domain name, which the U.S. government has deemed enough to consider a website in it's jurisdiction.
Would migrating to something like a .me domain eliminate that liability?

dot bit would be even better.  Someone get working on a firefox browser plugin as soon as possible Cheesy


I get an error on the feedback page application error
Code:
NoMethodError at /user/mail/compose/server
undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass

    file: compose.rhtml
    location: evaluate_source
    line: 8

I created ALPACA demo version asset but a few things were confusing as a complete noob to doing so. I might suggest  a demo/example of what is required. Mostly the "terms". Would be nice to have examples or links at least to other companies who have created these things.

One thing I didn't understand was issuing shares. I wanted to issue 30 000 shares at 1btc each but when I entered 30 000 it said I only had 60. So some more price feedback is required.

Up to this point there is something missing from the glbse picture. Ive pointed it out before and its pretty obvious there is both a need and a business opportunity.

Personally I think we need more customer service for glbse to take the load off Nefario a bit so he can deal with coding and making the site as good as possible so on that note I am looking for share brokers for glbse. This is an opportunity to form a share brokerage firm which will itself have shares issued on glbse. We need some "founding partners" to control the firm with equal amount if shares. So possibly 4 is a good number. The company has the holding name  btcsharebrokers.com

You can walk people through setting up their contracts through to the IPO itself. This might require live skype calls or we might get "gotomeeting" or similar software.
Also helping  glbse by collecting their details so we can have a few more "verified" companies on glbse and avoid the money pits of the past.




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January 26, 2012, 11:37:04 PM
 #37

Thanks for the news SG, it's interesting how close the USGov is willing to go without going all the way. Another issue that will help GLBSE is that it's operations are not based inside the U.S., what will not help GLBSE is that we use a .com domain name, which the U.S. government has deemed enough to consider a website in it's jurisdiction.
Would migrating to something like a .me domain eliminate that liability?
Actually I think the SEC considers you under their control if you even SELL 1 share to a US citizen which means whatever domain you have you are rooted if an American buys your ipo shares. Its idiotic I know.

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January 27, 2012, 12:59:35 PM
 #38


dot bit would be even better.  Someone get working on a firefox browser plugin as soon as possible Cheesy


I get an error on the feedback page application error
Code:
NoMethodError at /user/mail/compose/server
undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass

    file: compose.rhtml
    location: evaluate_source
    line: 8

I created ALPACA demo version asset but a few things were confusing as a complete noob to doing so. I might suggest  a demo/example of what is required. Mostly the "terms". Would be nice to have examples or links at least to other companies who have created these things.

One thing I didn't understand was issuing shares. I wanted to issue 30 000 shares at 1btc each but when I entered 30 000 it said I only had 60. So some more price feedback is required.

Up to this point there is something missing from the glbse picture. Ive pointed it out before and its pretty obvious there is both a need and a business opportunity.

Personally I think we need more customer service for glbse to take the load off Nefario a bit so he can deal with coding and making the site as good as possible so on that note I am looking for share brokers for glbse. This is an opportunity to form a share brokerage firm which will itself have shares issued on glbse. We need some "founding partners" to control the firm with equal amount if shares. So possibly 4 is a good number. The company has the holding name  btcsharebrokers.com

You can walk people through setting up their contracts through to the IPO itself. This might require live skype calls or we might get "gotomeeting" or similar software.
Also helping  glbse by collecting their details so we can have a few more "verified" companies on glbse and avoid the money pits of the past.





GLBSE.bit is already taken, if someone can find out how we can get ahold of it I'll pay 5BTC for GLBSE.bit

BitcoinMedia thanks for testing, that feedback link bug has been fixed.

Great idea on the sharebrokers I think that is something that will need to be fleshed out a bit more, let me get back to this in a minute.

I take your point on the issuing assets/shares confusion, you are quite correct in that unless someone totally understands how GLBSE works they're going to have problems.

What I will introduce to tackle this issue is the IPO, we will make this a part of creating the share. Here is how it will work:

You state how many shares are to be issued (of which what percentage or number you or others are too keep a hold of), and when the IPO will happen.

The share/asset will then be created, and an IPO notice made (this will go out in email and an IPO RSS feed), and people can then begin making orders for that share(the bids). And can allow them to decide at what price to sell their share at (i.e. it lets the market price the share). When the IPO date arrives(lets say after 1-2 weeks, whatever the case) the shares are sold to the highest bidders and trading begins.

Now back to your point about share brokers.
I will begin to make it mandatory for shares to have a treasurer and a secretary(each with their own separate GLBSE account). For the share issuer to actually get access to any of their funds they must make a request for a withdrawal, in the request they must state the exact amount to be released and the purpose of the funds. For the funds to be released the secretary and treasurer must then approve the release, and the share creator must also supply receipts for those expenses.

Treasurers and secretaries will be paid a portion of the total IPO funds, as stated in the IPO each month for performing their duties which are to scrutinize the share creators expenses and protect funds on behalf of the shareholders. I foresee people of high levels of trustworthiness performing this task for a number of shares/assets or companies. Their GLBSE identity (which will be verified to their real life identity) will also be listed on the share/asset as the roles of treasurer and secretary.

The purpose of this is to prevent fraud and protect shareholders. This is how we run things at GLBSE/BitcoinGlobal, what do you think?


Nefario

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January 27, 2012, 01:01:34 PM
 #39

Thanks for the news SG, it's interesting how close the USGov is willing to go without going all the way. Another issue that will help GLBSE is that it's operations are not based inside the U.S., what will not help GLBSE is that we use a .com domain name, which the U.S. government has deemed enough to consider a website in it's jurisdiction.
Would migrating to something like a .me domain eliminate that liability?
Actually I think the SEC considers you under their control if you even SELL 1 share to a US citizen which means whatever domain you have you are rooted if an American buys your ipo shares. Its idiotic I know.

Good point, we will have to include a legal warning, that as part of the terms of this site users agree that if they are U.S. citizens they will not issue or purchase shares on this exchange.

Anyway we'll deal with this when we come to it.

Nefario.

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January 27, 2012, 03:12:10 PM
 #40

Looks good, but its risky to invest using bitcoins, they can just make a run for it

BTC: 1aombYbEyggW4uKuX2VgYBjPMu8yxcYCX
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