Starfish BCB - Loans and Deposits

[Buffer Overflow]

Save fools money, to stop the ongoing propagation of scams that will ruin bitcoin for everyone else

Bitcoin is and always will be a scammers wetdream. As Bitcoin grows the scams will only every increase.

The only way, and I really mean the only way for people to learn is, to get burnt. Some may learn quickley, others perhaps 2 or 3 times, other won't learn ever.

No offense intended, but you are totally wasting your time trying to "protect bitcoin from scams."
By all means keep trying, but your fighting an uphill battle.

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[coinft]

I think foolish is the operating word here, their trolling has grown tiresome to look at already. To the trolls, you do realize if you have a bank account, you take your money and place it in savings. What do you think the bank does with that money? They invest it in a very diversified set of securities so that you can get your small % of interest. That is essentially what patrick does, I suggest you get out your big poster boards and stand outside bank of america and wells fargo and yell at them about how big of a ponzi they are running.

a) Banks are financed without borrowing money at 168% a year
b) Banks charge interest between 3% and 29% (in the case of expensive credit cards, if you paid the minimum payment at this rate on a $5000 credit it would take 41 years to clear)
c) Patrick by comparison charges 281% Apr which is far worse then 10 times the most expensive credit card when you factor in that it's being lent from a deflationary currency.
d) Regarding banks, their business model is comparatively closer to making sense and have you watched the news in the last 5 years? who's going to print bitcoins for Patrick.

This is my third post explaining the situation clearly I think it's funny I haven't had a response picking apart my argument!!

I think you are at fault with c). Bitcoin may be deflationary in itself, but there is no way to predict if Bitcoin's total worth in $ is deflationary. That would be equal to guaranteeing a profit on long Bitcoin positions. Bitcoin is still young and volatile, and carries a non trivial risk in the medium term future. This does justify a high interest rate, as even high % APR in BTC does not guarantee the credit's worth in $. High interest on credits leads to high interest on deposits.

A corollary of this thought is, reasonably intelligent (and honest) credit takers are speculating on falling BTC prices (if they convert the BTC to fiat), or they would take a credit denominated in $.

Note I don't disagree with you in general, but clearly your argument c) is flawed because it does not take into account the high risk of BTC positions.

[Puppet]

Not because of the likes of Puppet, Micon or many others that like to claim how foolish I am providing a service,

No one said "providing a service" was foolish, not even providing a service like you did. The foolishness was in believing all the ponzi operators and scammers and anonymous lenders that claimed no exposure, and your assumption you would get the vast majority of those loans back, even though many of them would default along with the ponzi's they invested in and even though you probably have zero leverage over them.

Put differently, you were a fool to believe your own credit ratings.

[peasant]

Save fools money, to stop the ongoing propagation of scams that will ruin bitcoin for everyone else

Bitcoin is and always will be a scammers wetdream. As Bitcoin grows the scams will only every increase.

The only way, and I really mean the only way for people to learn is, to get burnt. Some may learn quickley, others perhaps 2 or 3 times, other won't learn ever.

No offense intended, but you are totally wasting your time trying to "protect bitcoin from scams."
By all means keep trying, but your fighting an uphill battle.

Agreed. Saving people from themselves has never been successful. Some lessons can only be learned the hard way. Can team ponzi please go troll other threads that need there attention. Patrick hasn't earned it.

[JoelKatz]

Just seems strange no one in this thread seems to be complaining about not getting there money back... the only ones complaining are the ones who weren't involved ??

Because they still hope to get their money back and believe that such complaints will reduce their chances. For one thing, those who owe money can pretty much walk away without consequences. Also, the more people who complain that they're not getting their money back, the more other people who will apply pressure for early withdrawals, reducing the chances that those who are already waiting will actually get money back. It makes perfect sense that victims, so long as they still hope to get some money back, won't complain. The last thing they want to do is make the line they're on longer.

but with 1 or 2 other lenders, people are complaining they have not received anything back and the lenders don't seem to be saying anything... and all you people don't seem to worried about that.

Those complaints serve the same purpose, so what else do you think needs to be done? It's obvious there's a problem if people are saying they haven't gotten their money back yet.

[zaj]

received my full deposit + principal.

thanks patrick ! will be glad to do more bussines in the future

[Micon]

Micon and co -  why don't you all go after people who are not making any attempts to give people back money ?
What are you peoples hoping to achieve in this thread ?

Good Question.

PatrickHarnett isn't your usual fly-by-night scam - he's a confidence man, i.e. the long con.  It's not this 1 deal that went bad either - go take a look at the Kranken fund- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100913.0 

He's also basically said there was no way he would ever pay back starfish principle, even when given until the end of the year. 

It's a plain and simple scam, you should be mad at him instead of me.

[JoelKatz]

PatrickHarnett isn't your usual fly-by-night scam - he's a confidence man, i.e. the long con.  It's not this 1 deal that went bad either - go take a look at the Kranken fund- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100913.0 

It looks like he got investors to buy all of his bad Pirate debt. And somehow, he's already paid them "profits" from an unspecified source. It's getting harder to see Patrick as a victim and easier to see him as a con artist.

[Buffer Overflow]

Micon and co -  why don't you all go after people who are not making any attempts to give people back money ?
What are you peoples hoping to achieve in this thread ?

Good Question.

PatrickHarnett isn't your usual fly-by-night scam - he's a confidence man, i.e. the long con.  It's not this 1 deal that went bad either - go take a look at the Kranken fund- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100913.0 

He's also basically said there was no way he would ever pay back starfish principle, even when given until the end of the year. 

It's a plain and simple scam, you should be mad at him instead of me.

Where did this end on year wind down time limit pop up from anyway? Link/quote from Patrick? I hope you didn't pluck that figure out of thin air Micon.

[Justin00]

you should be mad at him instead of me.

I'm not mad at anyone

oh well, you guys keep doing whatever it is your doing.. and hopefully you will achieve whatever it is you intend to achieve

[PatrickHarnett]

Where did this end on year wind down time limit pop up from anyway? Link/quote from Patrick? I hope you didn't pluck that figure out of thin air Micon.

I think it was made up.  I have not specified a time frame.

[Puppet]

PatrickHarnett isn't your usual fly-by-night scam - he's a confidence man, i.e. the long con.  It's not this 1 deal that went bad either - go take a look at the Kranken fund- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100913.0  

It looks like he got investors to buy all of his bad Pirate debt. And somehow, he's already paid them "profits" from an unspecified source. It's getting harder to see Patrick as a victim and easier to see him as a con artist.

Indeed, Im beginning to change my mind too. So much for the argument that Patrick is no longer accepting new deposits, he just switched from starfish to  Kraken to get fresh money. Even after Pirate defaulted, it seems he took investors money and turned at least 5000BTC of it in to "undervalued" pirate debt ( probably his own pirate debt), using that "kraken" fund. Note that this fund will not pay its investors more than 2.5%, he gets to keep anything above that.  What a deal!  So if pirate somehow does pay out, Patrick gets to keep almost all the loot, if Pirate doesnt pay up, its his investors that are screwed, because despite "guaranteeing" the face value, it should be clear by now that Patrick is way under water. In essence he just doubled his bet on Pirate and did it with borrowed money.

I guess that also explains why he is still keeping up appearances, just in case Pirate does somehow pay out.

If anyone would like to publish his "newsletters" that contain information he is not posting publicly, Id be very much interested in reading it.  Eg, Goat posted this:
PPT.A, PPT.B, PPT.E 3540 BTC
Payb.tc 1140 BTC
TyGrr Bond.P 170 BTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100913.msg1189716#msg1189716

Which apparently comes from the news letter and I assume is what Patrick invested his Kraken customer funds in. I can see why he wouldnt want that on a public forum, people might start asking questions.

[Micon]

Interesting to see that there are now some minor bets going on.  The three month date is rather arbitrary and I would suggest people don't waste their time/effort/money on it. 

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=696

This is what I'm talking about - your tone here sounds like you are warning people against betting that you will pay back in the next 3 months, because you know there is no chance of that. 

Sounds like you will stall / pay back small or post as a sock puppet or 2 with low post count no one has ever heard of to say "thanks starfish, interest + principal rec'd fuck the haters"

you guys understand the symbolic bet now?  he is basically saying there is no chance you will get your BTC any time soon.  Certainly not by the end of the year.  If you have principal tied up with this scammer, you should consider it totally lost at this point, save maybe pennies on the dollar Patrick may decide to send out.

[Puppet]

Which apparently comes from the news letter and I assume is what Patrick invested his Kraken customer funds in. I can see why he wouldnt want that on a public forum, people might start asking questions.

Retards like you and Micon wouldn't know when to shut it.

Mind your own business. LEAVE.

If I said anything factually incorrect, please point it out.
If you want me to shut up just so that other investors dont realize whats going on before you get (some of) your starfish coins back (possibly from the suckers that bought in to Kraken), then sorry, I cant do you that pleasure.

[Puppet]

Dude I have invested in Kraken.

I want you to leave because this thread is meant to discuss developments around Starfish BCB and you're constant ponzi mumbelings are distracting (off topic spam). If you want to "warn" investors by all means do so, but please do it somewhere else so I can ignore it. If you do it here it reduces the signal to noise ratio of the thread to me and takes me more time to read the same content.

I formulated my request in this fashion because I asked Micon before and he won't leave. It's like a group of people that are having a discussion and some weird kid jumping in and shouting non-related stuff breaking up the discussion. In that situation the weird kid will be asked to leave and not disturb the discussion. If he doesn't leave in the end someone will make him. On this forum I haven't the power to make you leave. Please do.

Just click the ignore below our names, put your head in the sand like so many who ignored the warnings about hashking, pirate, obsi etc. You will find out eventually anyway, like when your money is gone.
Good luck with that kraken thing.

[PatrickHarnett]

I don't expect people like Gene to leave, or some of the other newer people that like to save everyone else from me.  It happens that I'm one of their favourite targets, and that comes with the territory and Bitcoin. 

I was interested in learning the mechanics of the long con Micon thinks I'm pulling because I'm obviously too retarded to have worked it out for myself.  But it does seem that I'm not running a ponzi (after several months of accusations - unless I read that wrong).

[Buffer Overflow]

I was interested in learning the mechanics of the long con Micon thinks I'm pulling because I'm obviously too retarded to have worked it out for myself.  But it does seem that I'm not running a ponzi (after several months of accusations - unless I read that wrong).

Don't take the bait Patrick, it's just what they're after.

[PatrickHarnett]

I was interested in learning the mechanics of the long con Micon thinks I'm pulling because I'm obviously too retarded to have worked it out for myself.  But it does seem that I'm not running a ponzi (after several months of accusations - unless I read that wrong).

Don't take the bait Patrick, it's just what they're after.

Consider it a weak, idle moment.

[jasinlee]

Careful of that hook patrick it looks suspicious.

[Puppet]

I was interested in learning the mechanics of the long con Micon thinks I'm pulling because I'm obviously too retarded to have worked it out for myself.  But it does seem that I'm not running a ponzi (after several months of accusations - unless I read that wrong).

I think you did read it wrong, and it would still seem you are running a ponzi, unless I misread something about your kraken fund.

The mechanics seem pretty simple. BCB is insolvent as a result of pirate and pirate related defaults, I dont even think you deny that any longer (do you?).
You stopped accepting deposits to prove you werent running a ponzi, but then you start kraken to attract new deposits. With those funds you bought a bug chunk of pirate debt, probably some/most of the toxic pirate related BCB debt, allowing you to keep reimbursing BCB customers and keep your fanclub happy and loyal. So much so that even some of the very same BCB customers happily invest in kraken even though they werent paid out for BCB yet. Thats the ponzi part, paying old investors with new investors money.

So this buys you time, but the problem now shifts to Kraken obviously. You still seem to have hopes pirate will actually pay out. So you limit your investors profits for kraken to 2.5%. Should the unthinkable happen, and pirate pays out, you get to keep almost all the loot, you can reimburse everyone and become the forum hero.

If pirate doesnt pay out a dime, your kraken investors are screwed, but since its "totally independent" of starfish, most of your fans will still not connect the dots when kraken defaults. After all, you would have honestly paid out some/most of BCB deposits. You just didnt tell them it was with their kraken deposits.

Anyway, thats what I think is currently the most plausible theory.