Bitcoin Conference 2011 NYC

[Meni Rosenfeld]

How do you know it was changed? Did you get a email since you were registered or something?  I have not registered and now i don't want to register till I know where it is.

It says it right there in the info page of the conference - http://bitcoinme.com/index.php/bitcon-2011/ . "Check out the NEW VENUE"

http://www.betabeat.com/2011/08/09/bitcoin-conference-and-world-expo-moved-to-roosevelt-hotel/

Good catch. This story says it's a venue "upgrade", but I think they're just extrapolating as Bruce has been keeping radio silence lately. I really hope this is indeed an upgrade, due perhaps to high turnout (Bruce did say something about a plan B for the best case) and not something else.

[1713837951]

1713837951

[solarpower]

How do you know it was changed? Did you get a email since you were registered or something?  I have not registered and now i don't want to register till I know where it is.

It says it right there in the info page of the conference - http://bitcoinme.com/index.php/bitcon-2011/ . "Check out the NEW VENUE"

Well thats odd i kept the webpage open for weeks and just kept refreshing it.  When i went to a new page off your link up popped the new venue link you mentioned ...

silly me ...  for just refreshing and not going to a new page

thanks ...

solarpower

[Manny-OnlyOneTV]

I know I do not post much on here but I wanted to bring you all with an update on what's going on with the conference.

First and foremost always check http://bitcoinconference.com

In order to keep up with demand we have upgraded the venue to the Roosevelt Hotel! You may check it out here

We have capacity for 200 attendees AND 20 vendor tables! The vendor tables are going fast, don't wait until its too late.

Yes, prices are weighted against USD, its the only way we can make sure that we do not go broke hosting the event. Thank you for the response thus far! Look forward to meeting everyone.




Just in case my identity must be verified here is my signed GPG key.
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[stsbrad]

So pumped about going! We just booked our rooms and flights! Woop Woop!

[stsbrad]

Also can anyone tell me which is closer/better to fly into? JFK or LaGuardia? We choose JFK but I think I can change it in time if JFK sucks or something.

[Gabriel Beal]

Also can anyone tell me which is closer/better to fly into? JFK or LaGuardia? We choose JFK but I think I can change it in time if JFK sucks or something.

LaGuardia is a little closer to the venue, but you should be fine either way.

[Manny-OnlyOneTV]

Pro Tip: Use hopstop.com or the Hop Stop mobile app to find your way around the city. Especially if you have an Android phone (I also use Google Maps, Hop Stop provides static maps only). I'm not a New Yorker and its vital anytime I'm traveling to a new part of the city!

[BlockHash]

What do you do for bitcoin?

I share that question.

"
BlockHash
Whitelisted
Jr. Member
Posts: 12
"

Just because someone doesn't have many posts doesn't discount their input or the validity of their opinions.

Funny how the first ever bitcoin conference thats been hyped to shit doesnt even sell tickets by bitcoin amount. Instead equivalent to the amount in USD.

well, he did mention the fees were to cover the expenses of the conference, and the expenses are likely fixed in USD, therefore the need to price in USD to maintain a 1:1 costs:fee ratio.

That is a very bad sign, if the organizer of the supposed global BitCon won't deal in BitCoins. We've had people make it all the way across the country only on BitCoins and they made it just fine! Organizing a conference around it should at the very least speak to the strength of BitCoin, not the supposed obstacles the promoter is having to endure.

I won't accept any other explanation than Bruce is just a speculator and hypes the BitCoin masses while not having the passion to back it up when words meet action.

Respectfully, you have no idea what I do for BitCoin, so speculation that someone may have done more than I have is just that - speculation. I'm totally fine with you taking that stance though, as the free market will prove the truth in the end.

I know Bruce has his fans and that's fine too, I used to be one of them as well. He has indeed helped spread the word about BitCoin, but I differ in my interpretation of exactly how much this has helped. A lot of very misleading information has been put out there and endorsements for products/services were given without any due diligence. He's promised a lot but hasn't delivered in terms of the network and the show, which amounts to not much more than a man with a laptop giggling at himself on camera anymore. This conference is just being handled terribly and I think that his insistence that everything be handled in USD equivalents is just a sign of his true intentions in the BitCoin market - and that is speculation.  That, on the surface, is acceptable but when you run a network around BitCoins and build up BitCoins as the best thing ever, shouldn't you practice what you preach? I just find that very unprofessional.

Plus, changing the venue without a word and without any input from the community was a pretty low class thing to do as well. Yes, venues do change, but the way it was done was very misleading and unprofessional.

How in the world do you expect a person to run a conference while just accepting fees at a set bitcoin price?  They could potentially lose a lot of money doing that.  Basing the fee on bitcoins valued in USD is not speculation - it's anti-speculation.  Speculation would be setting a rigid, unchanging fee in bitcoins right at the start, in the hope that the price won't drop.

What would happen if a conference holder were to set a rigid ticket price in BTC that was just enough to cover the expenses, while Bitcoins were worth $30/each?  Suddenly, they're only worth $10 each, people are still buying tickets, and the conference holder has no way to cover the expenses except from his own pocket.  And you think this is the right way to go about things?

You could say that the conference holder should only be buying from people who sell products/services in bitcoins, so that he doesn't ever need to convert them to USD, but guess what?  Those vendors usually convert straight to USD, which means their prices will change according to the current USD/BTC rate.  Which means the conference holder would STILL be in the exact same position (of being screwed) if he set the prices according to an earlier valuation, and then the price drops.

The only way for him to hedge a potential loss if he was to set rigid prices is to set a ridiculously high price to start with, just in case the price drops.  But I'm sure people would rather pay prices that are reasonable, and based on the USD valuation of a BTC at the time of the payment, than pay 10x as much as the conference is worth.

Sheesh man, use your head!

It's almost as if BitCoin's are still unreliable. Hmm.

All that I'm saying is as big of a BitCoin promoter that Bruce is, it's surprising he's still clinging onto the USD when it comes down to it. As much as he trashes the USD (and rightfully so) and hypes BitCoin (completely beyond it's utility at this point), one would think he would be eager to prove how great the currency is. You do know the media will latch onto the fact that 99% of the conference is paid for in USD, as the BTC is too volatile and not widely accepted for it to be used? Just putting it out there.

[Intervex Digital]

In order to keep up with demand we have upgraded the venue to the Roosevelt Hotel! You may check it out here

REALLY wish we could make it out.  We will be there next year for sure.

Manny, I e-mailed Bruce to discuss pricing of being an event sponsor since we aren't able to attend in person, still haven't heard back from him.  Please PM me or send me a note via the website to discuss.

[Smalleyster]

What do you do for bitcoin?

I share that question.

"
BlockHash
Whitelisted
Jr. Member
Posts: 12
"

Just because someone doesn't have many posts doesn't discount their input or the validity of their opinions.

I'm still curious to know what you think you have done *for* bitcoin as you are the one who threw it out there.

[SgtSpike]

Funny how the first ever bitcoin conference thats been hyped to shit doesnt even sell tickets by bitcoin amount. Instead equivalent to the amount in USD.

well, he did mention the fees were to cover the expenses of the conference, and the expenses are likely fixed in USD, therefore the need to price in USD to maintain a 1:1 costs:fee ratio.

That is a very bad sign, if the organizer of the supposed global BitCon won't deal in BitCoins. We've had people make it all the way across the country only on BitCoins and they made it just fine! Organizing a conference around it should at the very least speak to the strength of BitCoin, not the supposed obstacles the promoter is having to endure.

I won't accept any other explanation than Bruce is just a speculator and hypes the BitCoin masses while not having the passion to back it up when words meet action.

Respectfully, you have no idea what I do for BitCoin, so speculation that someone may have done more than I have is just that - speculation. I'm totally fine with you taking that stance though, as the free market will prove the truth in the end.

I know Bruce has his fans and that's fine too, I used to be one of them as well. He has indeed helped spread the word about BitCoin, but I differ in my interpretation of exactly how much this has helped. A lot of very misleading information has been put out there and endorsements for products/services were given without any due diligence. He's promised a lot but hasn't delivered in terms of the network and the show, which amounts to not much more than a man with a laptop giggling at himself on camera anymore. This conference is just being handled terribly and I think that his insistence that everything be handled in USD equivalents is just a sign of his true intentions in the BitCoin market - and that is speculation.  That, on the surface, is acceptable but when you run a network around BitCoins and build up BitCoins as the best thing ever, shouldn't you practice what you preach? I just find that very unprofessional.

Plus, changing the venue without a word and without any input from the community was a pretty low class thing to do as well. Yes, venues do change, but the way it was done was very misleading and unprofessional.

How in the world do you expect a person to run a conference while just accepting fees at a set bitcoin price?  They could potentially lose a lot of money doing that.  Basing the fee on bitcoins valued in USD is not speculation - it's anti-speculation.  Speculation would be setting a rigid, unchanging fee in bitcoins right at the start, in the hope that the price won't drop.

What would happen if a conference holder were to set a rigid ticket price in BTC that was just enough to cover the expenses, while Bitcoins were worth $30/each?  Suddenly, they're only worth $10 each, people are still buying tickets, and the conference holder has no way to cover the expenses except from his own pocket.  And you think this is the right way to go about things?

You could say that the conference holder should only be buying from people who sell products/services in bitcoins, so that he doesn't ever need to convert them to USD, but guess what?  Those vendors usually convert straight to USD, which means their prices will change according to the current USD/BTC rate.  Which means the conference holder would STILL be in the exact same position (of being screwed) if he set the prices according to an earlier valuation, and then the price drops.

The only way for him to hedge a potential loss if he was to set rigid prices is to set a ridiculously high price to start with, just in case the price drops.  But I'm sure people would rather pay prices that are reasonable, and based on the USD valuation of a BTC at the time of the payment, than pay 10x as much as the conference is worth.

Sheesh man, use your head!

It's almost as if BitCoin's are still unreliable. Hmm.

All that I'm saying is as big of a BitCoin promoter that Bruce is, it's surprising he's still clinging onto the USD when it comes down to it. As much as he trashes the USD (and rightfully so) and hypes BitCoin (completely beyond it's utility at this point), one would think he would be eager to prove how great the currency is. You do know the media will latch onto the fact that 99% of the conference is paid for in USD, as the BTC is too volatile and not widely accepted for it to be used? Just putting it out there.

It's not that BitCoin is unreliable, it's that it is still a currency in its infancy.  It cannot be used to value things on its own, yet.  No matter how much Bruce would like to have a set price in BTC that stays from the start of ticket sales to the end, it won't change the fact that there is still a good deal of volatility in the value of bitcoins.  Volatility = a huge amount of risk when you are talking about playing with money you are borrowing (which is essentially what is happening when you accept payments up front for expenses in the future).

You keep saying how Bruce has malicious intentions to mislead and speculate, when that simply isn't true.  Now, you seem to have backed down to a statement regarding the volatility of Bitcoins, which I think everyone here can agree with.  Just don't blame Bruce for Bitcoin's volatility.

And yes, I agree, the media probably will latch on to the fact that most things for the conference are being paid for in USD.  So?  Is there anything that could be done about that?  Not really...

[N12]

Please, people. This person is just a troll from over there: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3413928&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

I find it quite funny and sympathize with some of their views. Do you all have Asperger or why can’t you understand humor? I’ll highlight some clues.

Respectfully, you have no idea what I do for BitCoin, so speculation that someone may have done more than I have is just that - speculation. I'm totally fine with you taking that stance though, as the free market will prove the truth in the end.

I know Bruce has his fans and that's fine too, I used to be one of them as well. He has indeed helped spread the word about BitCoin, but I differ in my interpretation of exactly how much this has helped. A lot of very misleading information has been put out there and endorsements for products/services were given without any due diligence. He's promised a lot but hasn't delivered in terms of the network and the show, which amounts to not much more than a man with a laptop giggling at himself on camera anymore. This conference is just being handled terribly and I think that his insistence that everything be handled in USD equivalents is just a sign of his true intentions in the BitCoin market - and that is speculation.  That, on the surface, is acceptable but when you run a network around BitCoins and build up BitCoins as the best thing ever, shouldn't you practice what you preach? I just find that very unprofessional.

Plus, changing the venue without a word and without any input from the community was a pretty low class thing to do as well. Yes, venues do change, but the way it was done was very misleading and unprofessional.

[Meni Rosenfeld]

It's not that BitCoin is unreliable, it's that it is still a currency in its infancy.  It cannot be used to value things on its own, yet.  No matter how much Bruce would like to have a set price in BTC that stays from the start of ticket sales to the end, it won't change the fact that there is still a good deal of volatility in the value of bitcoins.  Volatility = a huge amount of risk when you are talking about playing with money you are borrowing (which is essentially what is happening when you accept payments up front for expenses in the future).

Risk can be kept at a low level while denominating price in BTC with some combination of selling bitcoins in advance, taking loans and buying options. These markets aren't very mature which is a problem, but Bruce could have found a creative solution if he wanted. I think denominating the price in USD is a strong negative signal and he should have spent the effort to avoid it. Even if it means making the price a bit higher - for many people the registration is about 1% of the cost of attendance so this pales in comparison to the signal.

Another problem is the bait-and-switch of listing the price in BTC, but then the order form is based on USD. Later he changed the listing to USD.

I again implore Bruce to update the agenda and the list of high-profile attendees.

PS. The reason I'm saying all this is that I really want to attend the "Bitcoin Conference & Worldwide Expo 2011 NYC", and went to some length to do so. But I don't want it to end up something else (a "meetup" or "LAN party" as some naysayers put it) due to poor organization and foresight, and this includes lack of attendance due to perception of said organization and foresight. Manny's comment that demand is strong is encouraging, but we need more.

[BlockHash]

^^^^ Completely agree with Meni. Meni put it together in a way that was a lot less confrontational than mine, so kudos for that.

Please, people. This person is just a troll from over there: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3413928&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

I find it quite funny and sympathize with some of their views. Do you all have Asperger or why can’t you understand humor? I’ll highlight some clues.

Respectfully, you have no idea what I do for BitCoin, so speculation that someone may have done more than I have is just that - speculation. I'm totally fine with you taking that stance though, as the free market will prove the truth in the end.

I know Bruce has his fans and that's fine too, I used to be one of them as well. He has indeed helped spread the word about BitCoin, but I differ in my interpretation of exactly how much this has helped. A lot of very misleading information has been put out there and endorsements for products/services were given without any due diligence. He's promised a lot but hasn't delivered in terms of the network and the show, which amounts to not much more than a man with a laptop giggling at himself on camera anymore. This conference is just being handled terribly and I think that his insistence that everything be handled in USD equivalents is just a sign of his true intentions in the BitCoin market - and that is speculation.  That, on the surface, is acceptable but when you run a network around BitCoins and build up BitCoins as the best thing ever, shouldn't you practice what you preach? I just find that very unprofessional.

Plus, changing the venue without a word and without any input from the community was a pretty low class thing to do as well. Yes, venues do change, but the way it was done was very misleading and unprofessional.

Well detective, I'm glad you've spent time perusing the thread "over there" looking for clues. What difference does it make where I came from? And your supposed evidence citing "the free market" is actually my belief, rather than some less than subtle trolling.

As for the "very misleading" evidence, guilty as charged, but not because of that thread.

[Intervex Digital]

Can we get this thread back on topic?  I'm trying to get information regarding an event, not looking to read what should have been a private exchange or a new thread somewhere else.

Frankly I find the direction this topic has been taken to be very disrespectful not only to those who have been posting the off-topic messages, but to all of it's participants, readers, and the OP.

Mods, any way you can step in here?

[stsbrad]

Can we get this thread back on topic?  I'm trying to get information regarding an event, not looking to read what should have been a private exchange or a new thread somewhere else.

Frankly I find the direction this topic has been taken to be very disrespectful not only to those who have been posting the off-topic messages, but to all of it's participants, readers, and the OP.

Mods, any way you can step in here?

+1

[semyazza]

Also can anyone tell me which is closer/better to fly into? JFK or LaGuardia? We choose JFK but I think I can change it in time if JFK sucks or something.

LaGuardia is a little closer to the venue, but you should be fine either way.

JFK.  It also allows you access to Airtrain to connect to the subway system/Jamaica station if you want to do other things in NY besides the conference.

But, either are good.

[SgtSpike]

It's not that BitCoin is unreliable, it's that it is still a currency in its infancy.  It cannot be used to value things on its own, yet.  No matter how much Bruce would like to have a set price in BTC that stays from the start of ticket sales to the end, it won't change the fact that there is still a good deal of volatility in the value of bitcoins.  Volatility = a huge amount of risk when you are talking about playing with money you are borrowing (which is essentially what is happening when you accept payments up front for expenses in the future).

Risk can be kept at a low level while denominating price in BTC with some combination of selling bitcoins in advance, taking loans and buying options. These markets aren't very mature which is a problem, but Bruce could have found a creative solution if he wanted. I think denominating the price in USD is a strong negative signal and he should have spent the effort to avoid it. Even if it means making the price a bit higher - for many people the registration is about 1% of the cost of attendance so this pales in comparison to the signal.

Another problem is the bait-and-switch of listing the price in BTC, but then the order form is based on USD. Later he changed the listing to USD.

I again implore Bruce to update the agenda and the list of high-profile attendees.

PS. The reason I'm saying all this is that I really want to attend the "Bitcoin Conference & Worldwide Expo 2011 NYC", and went to some length to do so. But I don't want it to end up something else (a "meetup" or "LAN party" as some naysayers put it) due to poor organization and foresight, and this includes lack of attendance due to perception of said organization and foresight. Manny's comment that demand is strong is encouraging, but we need more.

That would have been practical if demand was a certainty.  But with a first-time conference like this, it would be very difficult to know how many people would be attending, thus, you couldn't anticipate the right number of coins to borrow and sell.

[edd]

As SgtSpike has said, this is the first large scale Bitcoin Conference attempted and a lot of things are uncertain. What if Bruce posted a list of attendees and some of them experienced the same problems Nefario did? What if all prices were in BTC and the value skyrockets in a week? Then everyone would be upset due to the fact that Bruce and his associates made money off of it.

I wish I could attend but I won't be able to. Bruce has been in contact with me and has even provided some numbers, but has also asked me not to share them, which only makes sense since they could change dramatically up or down over the next few days.

I believe I can safely say that the more I learn about it, the more envious I am of those who are going.

[Taxlow]

Can we get this thread back on topic?  I'm trying to get information regarding an event, not looking to read what should have been a private exchange or a new thread somewhere else.

Frankly I find the direction this topic has been taken to be very disrespectful not only to those who have been posting the off-topic messages, but to all of it's participants, readers, and the OP.

Mods, any way you can step in here?

Mods??