H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation

[jtoomim]

Then, why all this talk about hosting miners in WA. Any state, except NY and CA would do. It is either important or non-important, but it cannot be important enough for the hosting company (to be in WA) and non-important for customers. It does not make sense. Perhaps, I am pushing this point too much, but otherwise the whole thing does not work.

You forgot to mention HI.

It's important for companies that are trying to push the price down, like mine. For most other datacenters, it doesn't matter much, as long as they're paying less than about $0.10/kWh. Keep in mind, also, that Seattle's rates aren't that good. Don't lump all of WA into one, because the rates vary by about 4x between different utility companies in the same state. Central WA is where the really good stuff is.

Regarding the uptime: some people are running miners in their garages with almost the same success. All you need is a good proper ventilation with some air conditioning (as long as the temperatures stay below 82oF or so), disconnect detection (no connection) and periodic reboot (usually not the miners themselves, but the software)-and you are golden.

Just for reference, 99.982% is about 1.576 hours of downtime per year. Tier 3 means you can rely on your downtime being less than that. Typical actual uptimes in a tier 3 datacenter are around 99.999%. Tier 3 means that they don't even turn machines off for maintenance. In tier 3, you usually have redundant power connections, so you can turn off one circuit for maintenance and still have your machines powered. Often, they have double-redundant power, so you can turn off any circuit in the building and still have at least two paths for redundant power supply. You're not going to achieve that level of reliability in your garage.

Fortunately, for bitcoin mining, you don't need to.

[Syke]

Then, why all this talk about hosting miners in WA. Any state, except NY and CA would do. It is either important or non-important, but it cannot be important enough for the hosting company (to be in WA) and non-important for customers. It does not make sense.

It's a distraction. They hope that by quoting low electric rates you'll assume their hosting rates are also low.

[Collider]

Then, why all this talk about hosting miners in WA. Any state, except NY and CA would do. It is either important or non-important, but it cannot be important enough for the hosting company (to be in WA) and non-important for customers. It does not make sense.

It's a distraction. They hope that by quoting low electric rates you'll assume their hosting rates are also low.

That seems correct.

If you look to Iceland, you see how low hosting rates are possible at around 4-6ct/kWh power cost.

Iceland DCs charge between 110$ and 120$/kW (from the first kW), with the above quoted internal power costs, a very fair price in my opinion.

WA power costs are even cheaper for DCs most of the time, still they don´t manage better (or even equal) hosting tariffs for miners, showcasing that they either do not understand the situation or sit on huge profits.

I have 1 unit at Advania in Iceland, the air intake temperature is usually 18°C and sometimes up to 20°C, it runs perfectly stable without any power outages.


I obviously share the opinion that miners don´t need those extra 0.5% of uptime, as they nearly double the operational costs.
I also highly doubt that the power lines to DCs frequently suffer outages.

[QuiveringGibbage]

couple of updates to the directory this week:

=====================
URL: http://bitcoinasichosting.com/pricing
Price: = $205/KW, $42 per U (1.75 inches)
Location: Seattle WA 98122 USA
Comment: Operated is Dalkore
Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=505980.0
=====================
=====================
URL: http://dfcolo.com/bitcoin_terraminer_hosting/
Price: Single servers starting $150/mth, 6 Mth, 208V, UPS, Raised Floor, Secure Cabinet, PDU, 24x7 Support, 10Mbps Internet, Setup fee. 5kW $800/mth, $500 Setup fee. 10kW $1500/mth, $500 Setup fee. Price does not include server rails, power cords or PDU’s
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Comment: Representative is Digital Fortress Call Kevin 877-720-0483 - 206-681-9732 (info@dfcolo.com)
Feedback: 1
=====================

My hosted Stats at the time of posting:
http://www.michigan-colocation.com - quiveringgibbage.gaederopus

Code:

Mining Rate: 1.47Ths (pre-May batch)
Temp Front / Back T,B
    30 °C / 73,74 °C 
Name 	GH/s 	 Accepted shares Rejected shares 	Errors 	Utility
SP10 	1472.475 331809 	 311 	                2740 	28.71

http://www.gekkoscience.com - quiveringgibbage.princeps

Code:

Mining Rate: 1.44Ths (May batch)
Temp Front / Back T,B
    28 °C / 69,72 °C 
Name 	GH/s 	 Accepted shares Rejected shares 	Errors 	Utility
SP10 	1440 	141657 	         167 	                1128 	28.66

http://www.gekkoscience.com - quiveringgibbage.linguaefelis

Code:

Mining Rate: 1.45Ths (May batch)
Temp Front / Back T,B
    28 °C / 70,73 °C 
Name 	GH/s 	Accepted shares Rejected shares 	Errors 	Utility
SP10 	1445.85 193661 	        200 	                1373 	28.88 

Cheers,
QG

[usao]

How does it make sense to host a SP30 (Sept) for $350/Month (Mich-colo) when it only generates $1500 in it's lifetime?
Im not trying to be stupid, I just don't get how this works at all? The monthly income is less than the hosting costs after 2 months at CoLo, not to mention the purchase price...
I just don't see how people make any money doing this anymore...

Date	Days	Difficulty	Revenue	Profit	Return
2014	0
9-9 - 9-30	(22 days)	41849 M	$623.1	$623.1	$623.1
10-1 - 10-31	(53 days)	60263 M	$548.7	$548.7	$1171
11-1 - 11-30	(83 days)	86779 M	$283.3	$283.3	$1455
12-1 - 12-31	(114 days)	149 G	$124	$124	$1579
2015
1-1 - 1-31	(145 days)	215 G	$18.61	$18.61	$1597
2-1 - 2-28	(173 days)	310 G	$-45.82	$-45.82	$1551

[psahx]

couple of updates to the directory this week:

Thanks for the update QG.

I confirm ambient in Michigan Colocation, temps are getting better and better every day.

[Biodom]

How does it make sense to host a SP30 (Sept) for $350/Month (Mich-colo) when it only generates $1500 in it's lifetime?
Im not trying to be stupid, I just don't get how this works at all? The monthly income is less than the hosting costs after 2 months at CoLo, not to mention the purchase price...
I just don't see how people make any money doing this anymore...

Date	Days	Difficulty	Revenue	Profit	Return
2014	0
9-9 - 9-30	(22 days)	41849 M	$623.1	$623.1	$623.1
10-1 - 10-31	(53 days)	60263 M	$548.7	$548.7	$1171
11-1 - 11-30	(83 days)	86779 M	$283.3	$283.3	$1455
12-1 - 12-31	(114 days)	149 G	$124	$124	$1579
2015
1-1 - 1-31	(145 days)	215 G	$18.61	$18.61	$1597
2-1 - 2-28	(173 days)	310 G	$-45.82	$-45.82	$1551

Of course, if you put in the unrealistic difficulties numbers, you get back the strange output.

[usao]

How does it make sense to host a SP30 (Sept) for $350/Month (Mich-colo) when it only generates $1500 in it's lifetime?
Im not trying to be stupid, I just don't get how this works at all? The monthly income is less than the hosting costs after 2 months at CoLo, not to mention the purchase price...
I just don't see how people make any money doing this anymore...

Date	Days	Difficulty	Revenue	Profit	Return
2014	0
9-9 - 9-30	(22 days)	41849 M	$623.1	$623.1	$623.1
10-1 - 10-31	(53 days)	60263 M	$548.7	$548.7	$1171
11-1 - 11-30	(83 days)	86779 M	$283.3	$283.3	$1455
12-1 - 12-31	(114 days)	149 G	$124	$124	$1579
2015
1-1 - 1-31	(145 days)	215 G	$18.61	$18.61	$1597
2-1 - 2-28	(173 days)	310 G	$-45.82	$-45.82	$1551

Of course, if you put in the unrealistic difficulties numbers, you get back the strange output.

What do you mean unrealistic? It's the default projection which the tool provides based on recent history.
The difficulty should be around 41G in Sept, which is where it starts, and grows 20% from their each increment.
Is this not realistic?

[usao]

Im trying to make an honest estimate of the returns I might make on the SP30 (6THs, Sept delivery).
I used the bitcoinwisdom calculator and came up with an average difficulty bump of 18.2% since Jan of this year.
I then entered that growth rate and the expected 6THs rate and got the following chart.
Even with the slightly reduced difficulty growth rate, and boosting the THs to the MAX (unrealistic in my opinion),  I still see a maximum return of just over $2K (assuming BTC is constant price).
Is there a reason to believe that the growth rate in the difficulty factor is incorrect?
BTC has been fairly stable around $600 for some time now, is there a reason to believe it will go up (which could change the end-values)?
What am I missing here?

[Biodom]

How does it make sense to host a SP30 (Sept) for $350/Month (Mich-colo) when it only generates $1500 in it's lifetime?
Im not trying to be stupid, I just don't get how this works at all? The monthly income is less than the hosting costs after 2 months at CoLo, not to mention the purchase price...
I just don't see how people make any money doing this anymore...

Date	Days	Difficulty	Revenue	Profit	Return
2014	0
9-9 - 9-30	(22 days)	41849 M	$623.1	$623.1	$623.1
10-1 - 10-31	(53 days)	60263 M	$548.7	$548.7	$1171
11-1 - 11-30	(83 days)	86779 M	$283.3	$283.3	$1455
12-1 - 12-31	(114 days)	149 G	$124	$124	$1579
2015
1-1 - 1-31	(145 days)	215 G	$18.61	$18.61	$1597
2-1 - 2-28	(173 days)	310 G	$-45.82	$-45.82	$1551

Of course, if you put in the unrealistic difficulties numbers, you get back the strange output.

What do you mean unrealistic? It's the default projection which the tool provides based on recent history.
The difficulty should be around 41G in Sept, which is where it starts, and grows 20% from their each increment.
Is this not realistic?

you mean each 10-12 days 20% rise? This is NOT going to happen, and if it does NO mining can survive IF the price stays the same, which is what you assume.

[usao]

you mean each 10-12 days 20% rise? This is NOT going to happen, and if it does NO mining can survive IF the price stays the same, which is what you assume.

First off, im not trying to be an ass, or cause FUD or anything.
Im honestly just trying to understand.
When I computed the average rise of the difficulty factor from Jan to now, it was 18.2% each increment.
So, this is an honest question from my point of view...
Why is a average of 18-20% increase not going to happen, when it's been happening since the beginning of the year?

[QuiveringGibbage]

lets stay on topic - H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation

Oh, and this thread got moved to Service Discussion and so it should. Makes sense.

C'mon BLOCK #2!! where are you?
QG

[bobsag3]

We now have a internal private p2pnode available to customers, currently has ~20TH on it.

[sidehack]

So, I've been hosting some of QG's hardware on a test basis for a month or so now, and he can comment on the level of service he's received.

We're looking at the feasibility of expanding to general hosting, which should be available in August if we can do it (decisions need to be made in the next few days). What we're looking at is a basic no-frills service aimed toward small- or mid-level miners that are just tired of paying high utilities. Everything we've done for the bitcoin community (overclock kits, hardware repair, power supplies...) has had in mind to make things easier for regular folks to keep up with the deep pockets of giants so that's what we're wanting to do again. We're not really even looking at turning a profit, just basic sustainability and helping cover rent on the building.

Our expected maximum capacity would be about 80KW of 208VAC, and we'd institute a per-customer cap of 15KW to make sure we keep room for the regular guys and won't be bought out by big farmers. We are the little guys, so we support the little guys.

The proposed fee structure is as follows:

One-time setup fees:
- $25 power installation (paid once per customer, covers metering install)
- $10 remote access setup fee (paid once per customer, optional if you want VPN access to your hardware)
- $10 installation and setup fee (paid once per machine/connection)
- $20 host computer setup fee (paid once per machine, optional if you need a host computer for anything to run from)

Recurring monthly:
- $10 per month remote access fee (optional, for VPN access)
- $30 per KW draw, no minimum per machine
--- So if you have an S3 drawing 400W, your use fee is $12 ($30*0.4)
--- but if you have an SP10 drawing 1.4KW your use fee is $42 ($30*1.4)
- $0.095 per KWh of metered power draw
--- So an S3 at 400W draw would charge $27.36 in energy in 30 days
--- and an SP10 at 1.4KW would charge $95.76 in energy in 30 days

The "per machine" designation basically means "per internet connection", so if you had 10 mining boards on a common USB connection to one computer, it would be considered one machine instead of 10. So the installation fee for 10 minion boards or hashfast boards or whatever, tied into one computer, would be $30: $10 for the boards and $20 for imaging and setting up cgminer on a lightweight laptop. If you had a standalone machine like an S3 or SP10, the installation fee is just the $10.
Total monthly fees for an S3 (or equivalent 400W device) would be about $39, and for a high-clocked SP10 (or equivalent 1.4KW device) would be about $138.

For the first and last months, which will be partial months, the entire use fee (of $30/KW draw) will be charged. Think of it as the month's non-prorated rent for the shelfspace and power outlet. The utilities fee will only be charged on actual metered use for the partial months. Total month pricing (for a 30-day month) can be estimated as $98.40/KW draw. Invoices (either BTC or PayPal) would be sent out on the first business day of each month billing the previous month's fees. Initial setup fees would have to be paid up front, at or before the time the hardware is received for installation.

We make no uptime guarantees, but we'll have our own machines and our own servers on the same power and internet service so we'll already be doing our best to maximize uptime. There's no real good way to set up backup power, but we will probably be setting up redundant internet in case we have service issues. There's also no ambient-temperature guarantee, but peak ambient temperature expectations are below 40C with 22C-32C being a more typical daily range. This is designed to be basic no-frills service, so you won't be paying for uninterruptible power and industrial chillers because we don't have any.

We will provide PSU equipment (from our server PSU interface setups) for sale at the maximum bulk-pricing discount, or for monthly lease at one-third the discounted sale price. D750 (750-800W) PSUs will sell for $55 per PSU/Board/4-cables, and a DPS2K (2000-2500W PSU) will sell for $149 for a PSU/Board/12x36"-cables. If you purchase the supply, we will ship it with your equipment (if you request it) when it's time for your equipment to leave our facility. We will maintain any leased supplies, replacing failures as necessary at no expense to the customer.



So if anyone has any commentary on that plan, feel free to ask. This idea started as a way to help some of the community, and if we're gonna move forward on it we pretty much need to know within the next few days. We'd have to secure at least 30KW of customers in order to be sustainable so we're looking at taking a pretty big "leap of faith" and want to know what the general opinion is.

[Collider]

Interested, sent you a pm.


Especially the ability to also host S3s and possibly other non-rackmountable equipment looks like a big plus.

Power supplys at low cost also sounds great!

[QuiveringGibbage]

So, I've been hosting some of QG's hardware on a test basis for a month or so now, and he can comment on the level of service he's received.

As a basic no-frills service, I have had zero issues to report and everything has been efficiently and professionally handled.

Stats from my 2 x SP10 hosted at http://www.gekkoscience.com (princeps, linguaefelis)


More Screens of my SP10s: http://imgur.com/a/XFVOJ

You'll notice a little gap in linguaefelis (bottom pic) Last Month hash graph. That's when it took a 30 hour road trip from its previous hosting provider before Sidehack.

Directory updated:

WIP Last update: 2014-07-13
=====================
URL: http://www.gekkoscience.com/
Price: Total monthly fees for an S3 (or equivalent 400W device) would be about $39, and for a high-clocked SP10 (or equivalent 1.4KW device) would be about $138. Plus setup fees. See post for details (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.msg7814500#msg7814500).
Location: Missouri, US - ZIP 65401
Comment: Operator is sidehack (aka Kittan)
Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=379677.0
Feedback: 1
=====================

Cheers,
QG

Extract from IRC:

Code:

[14:58:25] <+QG> kittan; as it stands, i don't see why i wouldn't send my SP30 your way come Aug :) i prefer dealing with smaller btc ops/ventures, support the community.
[14:59:25] <+kittan> And supporting the community of smaller btc ops is what we do best. At least, that's the plan.

[RoadStress]

What do you mean unrealistic? It's the default projection which the tool provides based on recent history.
The difficulty should be around 41G in Sept, which is where it starts, and grows 20% from their each increment.
Is this not realistic?

I don't want to start a difficulty speculation talk here, but it's impossible that the hashrate will double in one month. You can't add 125PH overnight. It takes time, money etc.

[FordPrefect]

So, I've been hosting some of QG's hardware on a test basis for a month or so now, and he can comment on the level of service he's received.

We're looking at the feasibility of expanding to general hosting, which should be available in August if we can do it (decisions need to be made in the next few days). What we're looking at is a basic no-frills service aimed toward small- or mid-level miners that are just tired of paying high utilities.

...
 
So if anyone has any commentary on that plan, feel free to ask. This idea started as a way to help some of the community, and if we're gonna move forward on it we pretty much need to know within the next few days. We'd have to secure at least 30KW of customers in order to be sustainable so we're looking at taking a pretty big "leap of faith" and want to know what the general opinion is.

Personally, I presently host my equip at home, but this seems like it might be a good option going forward. I checked on your website and didn't see any location info (if this was posted earlier, I apologize... didn't see it). Where are you located out of? Edit: saw it right after I clicked post.

Please let me know once you finalize your plans.

[sidehack]

We have a minimum threshold of customers that would need to be met for sustainability, and we're trying to gauge whether we'd have that threshold before moving forward. Right now interested parties are lined up to the tune of about 2/3 of what we'd need.

[DevonMiner]

I can recommend Brian (Brian_AdvaniaThor), just arranged to host two SP10 at Advania with him. Quick replies and great service ... hope this follows through when they reach Iceland.

I'll update when they are up and running.

Update: After TNT took an extra day or 2 to deliver, Advania got my SP10s racked and mining within 24 hours, so very pleased.

Intake temps don't fluctuate more than 2 degrees at most (In the range of 19°C to 21°C).

As I write they are showing:

Miner 1 shows: 20 °C intake / 67,79 °C @ 1.42 Th/s
Miner 2 shows: 20 °C intake / 69,70 °C @ 1.44 Th/s

Seriously thinking of sending the SP30s on order there as well.