H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation

[ASICSPACE]

I do not have the time to critique Jtoomim's claims. PM me if you'd like more details.

[1714907569]

1714907569

[1714907569]

1714907569

[Collider]

It seems to me that a landlord can decide to whomever he wants to rent HIS building to.

Asicspace didn´t get it, and might now be priced out of the market due to all the increasing competition in hosting.

What I can confirm is that jtoomim has a huge knowledge about miners in general and sp30s/10s specifically.
He also seems to be quite capable of providing a good hosting solution, and that should be all that matters when looking for a hosting provider.

[cryptoceelo]

where is groupbitcoins actual DC because EC1V 4PW is a mail forwarding address no way would a central london address offer a justifiable price for a dc location

[2112]

no way would a central london address offer a justifiable price for a dc location

I have to mildly disagree with this portion of the sentence. There is nothing unusual to find a great hosting deal in the downtown, super-expensive location. One could land a sublease after a previous tenant moved out to consolidate. Or one could repurpose an existing space (e.g. cafeteria or food court) for an data center that foregoes some non-essential capabilities like physical security or backup generators.

I however have no specific information about the company or address mentioned.

[nhminer]

Some real world feedback ...

We choose to host with Toomim Bros;  Our miner was delivered at 11:30 today and we were mining within 2 hours.

At this point I'd give them a 10 for price and 10 support!

[bobsag3]

We now have several agreements in place will several Datacenters around the country, for .135/kwhr SP30/31/10 or cheaper.

[jtoomim]

no way would a central london address offer a justifiable price for a dc location

I have to mildly disagree with this portion of the sentence. There is nothing unusual to find a great hosting deal in the downtown, super-expensive location...

http://blog.comparemysolar.co.uk/electricity-price-per-kwh-comparison-of-big-six-energy-companies/

Electricity alone in London is about $0.25/kWh, or roughly twice Toom.im's all-in rates.

[2112]

http://blog.comparemysolar.co.uk/electricity-price-per-kwh-comparison-of-big-six-energy-companies/

Electricity alone in London is about $0.25/kWh, or roughly twice Toom.im's all-in rates.

Comparing the raw tariffs for the new service locations with the actual payments for established locations (after various adjustments, bonuses, promotions, incentives,etc.) will show that there are great savings available for flexibility and inventiveness. It is not unusual to pay nothing for electricity provided that you stay below certain ceiling usage and allow yourselves to be cut off first during peaks.

Here's an example picture from an improvised Bitcoin mine that somebody just posted in the Hashfast thread



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg8626008#msg8626008

In case the picture above is removed: it shows rows of miners running with no cases but laid out on the rearranged office desks with chairs&cabinets removed. I wish I could find and post the pictures for the first data centers for Victoria's Secret (and associated clothing brands) which were assembled from desktop computers laid out in cafeteria and mini-cubicle call center locations in supposedly expensive downtown skyscrapers.

Again, while I don't have specific information about the locations mentioned here, I'm positive that there are great opportunities available for temporary, improvised locations. Just look and ask around.

[jtoomim]

Here's an example picture from an improvised Bitcoin mine that somebody just posted in the Hashfast thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg8626008#msg8626008

In case the picture above is removed: it shows rows of miners running with no cases but laid out on the rearranged office desks with chairs&cabinets removed. I wish I could find and post the pictures for the first data centers for Victoria's Secret (and associated clothing brands) which were assembled from desktop computers laid out in cafeteria and mini-cubicle call center locations in supposedly expensive downtown skyscrapers.

Again, while I don't have specific information about the locations mentioned here, I'm positive that there are great opportunities available for temporary, improvised locations. Just look and ask around.

I bet those kinds of mines are profitable only because the person doing the mining isn't paying the electricity bill. I consider that to be abuse of the spirit of the contract, and tantamount to theft.

In the case above, they're also using air conditioning, which means they're using an additional 30% or 40% just to keep them cooled.

Here's how we do it. There's 48 kW running in just that one rack, and we only stopped filling it because we ran out of SP30s. No A/C. Our fans use about 5% of the energy of our miners. We're hydroelectric powered, and our utility company is happy to sell us energy at under $0.03/kWh all day every day. Nobody is bothered by the noise, and no landlords or megacorporations are unwittingly footing our bill.

http://toom.im/images/almost_full_rack.jpg


I know, the cables are a mess. We're still rearranging stuff.

[2112]

I bet those kinds of mines are profitable only because the person doing the mining isn't paying the electricity bill. I consider that to be abuse of the spirit of the contract, and tantamount to theft.

I know, the cables are a mess. We're still rearranging stuff.

I'm now thinking that you aren't familiar with any large multinational real estate corporation and how they run their business. They frequently have to "keep the lights on" in an unoccupied spaces for various reasons: marketing, general safety, technical impossibility of not air-conditioning a fraction of a shared space, long term contracts, etc. It is not only theft, it is actually a win-win and overall savings.

Here's an example from a nearby location managed by www.cbre.com : A specialty grocery/supermarket closed and with it two nearby specialty restaurants. Discount grocery/supermarket is going to move in after remodeling the main spaces and ramps to their specification. The restaurant spaces will be used only as a temporary storage of the fixtures of the anchor store while remodeling is done. Meanwhile megawatts of power and a/c are sitting nearly unused and cannot be completely turned off because the remaining local businesses are "open while remodeling".

From your comments about the hanging Ethernet cables I can surmise that you have an experience with catering to the OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) end of the spectrum of customers in the data center businesses. On the other hand I for many years worked in the entertainment and related businesses. Completely different personalities are involved.

[piper75]

Good day jtoomim I have been looking for hosting space and thought i had found but to my dismay they where not using a " to code" pdu set up and there cooling was questionable. I was wondering what you are using for both and if you could maybe post a pic or two. I would like to talk about rates for my miners and if they are negotiable for bigger orders.

[RoadStress]

Good day jtoomim I have been looking for hosting space and thought i had found but to my dismay they where not using a " to code" pdu set up and there cooling was questionable. I was wondering what you are using for both and if you could maybe post a pic or two. I would like to talk about rates for my miners and if they are negotiable for bigger orders.

Out of curiosity what units do you plan to host?

[jtoomim]

Good day jtoomim I have been looking for hosting space and thought i had found but to my dismay they where not using a " to code" pdu set up and there cooling was questionable. I was wondering what you are using for both and if you could maybe post a pic or two. I would like to talk about rates for my miners and if they are negotiable for bigger orders.

All of our PDUs are UL Listed. Our cooling system is also NRTL tested and approved. If it weren't, we wouldn't pass inspections.

Our cooling system is nowhere near questionable -- if you watch our cooling video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rQ-YIDmsBc), you'll get an idea for the enormous amount of airflow we have. I don't want to give out part numbers for the components we're using because that would be handing our competitors way too much information. As measured by anemometer, airflow in our system varies between 3.6 m/s (9 mph) and 8.8 m/s (20 mph). Intake temperatures for miners during the summer are typically around 18°C to 25°C. At this moment, intake temps are around 19°C-21°C.

We currently only accept rackmountable units, and may soon restrict that to high-density rackmountable units. If you wish to host less than 5 kW or more than 1000 MW of low-density equipment, we might be able to accommodate you, and we might not. Tell us what you want at orders@toom.im.

Our rates are the same for all order sizes. This is a policy decision intended to help keep Bitcoin mining decentralized. We want to keep small miners in the game and competing on footing that's as even as possible with the big players. I hope you understand.

[jtoomim]

I'm now thinking that you aren't familiar with any large multinational real estate corporation and how they run their business. They frequently have to "keep the lights on" in an unoccupied spaces for various reasons: marketing, general safety, technical impossibility of not air-conditioning a fraction of a shared space, long term contracts, etc. It is not only theft, it is actually a win-win and overall savings.

Here's an example from a nearby location managed by www.cbre.com : A specialty grocery/supermarket closed and with it two nearby specialty restaurants. Discount grocery/supermarket is going to move in after remodeling the main spaces and ramps to their specification. The restaurant spaces will be used only as a temporary storage of the fixtures of the anchor store while remodeling is done. Meanwhile megawatts of power and a/c are sitting nearly unused and cannot be completely turned off because the remaining local businesses are "open while remodeling".

You only pay for the power you use. If you have a 1 MW transformer connected and energized, it only uses about 10-15 kW of power (the so-called no-load losses due to imperfect magnetic properties of the iron in the transformer). At $0.10/kWh, that might cost you $1000 a month. If you connect 200 kW of bitcoin miners, it then costs you about $15,800 per month. Add in the air conditioning costs for those miners, and you're looking at something in excess of $20,000 per month.

The amount of power used by an air conditioner is related to the load. Many people calculate A/C load in terms of square footage, but that is only accurate when the load is mostly conductive losses through walls and ceilings plus typical office-type equipment. Once you start adding loads like Bitcoin miners, the amount of time your A/C unit has to be on goes way up.

"Keeping the lights on" uses a very small amount of power. Typical lighting loads might be 1.5 W per square foot. Our server racks, once full, will use about 500 W per square foot. One server rack full of SP30s uses several times as much power as all the lights in our building.

If a real estate agency is paying for this while a building is between tenants or up for remodeling, they are either going to be pissed off or they are not paying attention. My guess is the latter.

I have seen some rate schedules for power usage that are use-it-or-lose-it, or where you get a sudden decrease in price if you use a little more power. In a case like that, I can see how it might make sense to consume more. For the real estate case, though, I'm either not following your argument or not agreeing with it.

From your comments about the hanging Ethernet cables I can surmise that you have an experience with catering to the OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) end of the spectrum of customers in the data center businesses.

Nope, but poorly arranged cables impede airflow. The power cables (not pictured) are a more significant contributor to airflow resistance. Also, haphazardly wired network cables result in mistakes during maintenance.

[Arctic]

an update on Hydro66 - we've reduced our pricing and have several hundred kW available for immediate use.

Our new headline rate is $79-$99 per kW per month, 100% hydro, free air cooled.

I've added an announcement/discussion thread specifically for Hydro66 at
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765407.0


A

[RoadStress]

an update on Hydro66 - we've reduced our pricing and have several hundred kW available for immediate use.

Do you still have a 50kW minimum limit?

[Arctic]

Do you still have a 50kW minimum limit?

Hi RoadStress,   

No - happy to say we've reduced the minimum right down to 10kW. 

A

[dracore]

Just leaving a quick review.  My miners were received at Centerus over the weekend and so far everything is running smoothly.  The only issue I have is that they should be more responsive in communication.  I had sent out 2 emails which I did not receive a reply to (the question I posed is now moot).  Would have been nice to get at least some response back (despite being Labor weekend and all).

[2112]

You only pay for the power you use. If you have a 1 MW transformer connected and energized, it only uses about 10-15 kW of power (the so-called no-load losses due to imperfect magnetic properties of the iron in the transformer). At $0.10/kWh, that might cost you $1000 a month. If you connect 200 kW of bitcoin miners, it then costs you about $15,800 per month. Add in the air conditioning costs for those miners, and you're looking at something in excess of $20,000 per month.

The amount of power used by an air conditioner is related to the load. Many people calculate A/C load in terms of square footage, but that is only accurate when the load is mostly conductive losses through walls and ceilings plus typical office-type equipment. Once you start adding loads like Bitcoin miners, the amount of time your A/C unit has to be on goes way up.

"Keeping the lights on" uses a very small amount of power. Typical lighting loads might be 1.5 W per square foot. Our server racks, once full, will use about 500 W per square foot. One server rack full of SP30s uses several times as much power as all the lights in our building.

If a real estate agency is paying for this while a building is between tenants or up for remodeling, they are either going to be pissed off or they are not paying attention. My guess is the latter.

Essentially there's nothing wrong with what you wrote above, except that it shows that you don't understand the needs of a premium property landlord. "Keeping the lights on" takes much more than simply keeping the light on: the property needs to be attractive, safe, desirable, etc. To be honest I don't completely understand the large landlords either, but at least I spoke (not negotiated) with them on several occasions and have some understanding. Neither did I work for Victoria's Secret, but again spoke with friends who did. What I could say:

If somebody comes with an idea how to turn hot aisles in their Bitcoin mine towards the windows and combine it with bikini fashion show in those hot aisles, then landlords like CBRE will offer you really competitive electricity prices with their leases. The only downside will be that you'll have to travel worldwide, but again CBRE will cover the costs.

I have seen some rate schedules for power usage that are use-it-or-lose-it, or where you get a sudden decrease in price if you use a little more power. In a case like that, I can see how it might make sense to consume more. For the real estate case, though, I'm either not following your argument or not agreeing with it.

I get a tingle that you are getting closer to understanding dealing with large landlords.

Nope, but poorly arranged cables impede airflow. The power cables (not pictured) are a more significant contributor to airflow resistance. Also, haphazardly wired network cables result in mistakes during maintenance.

Ha ha, impeded airflow! One of my coworkers had actual numbers for MTTR (Mean Time To Repair/Reconfigure/Replace) and MCTR ('Cost' instead of 'Time') for tight racks vs. slack racks (after a merger of two companies with vastly different cultures) and the numbers aren't supporting the claims of the OCD crowd.

I however understand your position when marketing yourself to the owners of Spondoolies' hardware which is in large part "status symbol" crowd.

[RoadStress]

Do you still have a 50kW minimum limit?

Hi RoadStress,  

No - happy to say we've reduced the minimum right down to 10kW.  

A

Anyone from here or from the forum that has hosted with hydro66 to leave a small review?

I however understand your position when marketing yourself to the owners of Spondoolies' hardware which is in large part "status symbol" crowd.

Since I am one of the owned of Spondoolies hardware that will host there I can say that I took the decision before seeing any picture of the DC so I am not in that crowd when it comes to picking the hosting provider. But I must admit that I like pretty OCD cables